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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Practical use of Music Theory presented in a fun way


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/339993/3

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Mooooo - Posted - 03/03/2018:  08:02:02


We should have some rules so we don't have more than one "name that tune" going on at the same time. So maybe if you guys agree, the guy who guessed the previous tune gets to describe the next one. Try to make it a bit easier than impossible. Keep the descriptions Theory-based. The guy who describes the song announces the winner and awards the correct answerer some imaginary prize. 



Chuck should re-ask his question.....or just guess Jeff's question...I'm easy.


Edited by - Mooooo on 03/03/2018 08:11:25

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/03/2018:  08:13:56


You guys go on to Jeff’s question.

Mooooo - Posted - 03/03/2018:  08:23:08


Very sporting of you Chuck. Here's Jeff's question:



OK here's one. It might be too easy, though.

Key is b flat minor. Melody starts on the 5 note, descends to the 1 note with a natural 4 note.

I won't indicate the rhythm. That would def make it too easy. - Jeff (Flying Eagle)


Edited by - Mooooo on 03/03/2018 08:24:26

FlyinEagle - Posted - 03/03/2018:  08:37:26


Sorry about that. I forgot Chuck threw one one out there last night. Those rules sound reasonable to me.

Mooooo - Posted - 03/03/2018:  10:28:43


I am sure I had it, and forgot what I was thinking. Now my brain is saying: "recalculating, recalculating...."

FlyinEagle - Posted - 03/03/2018:  10:43:41


This is a romantic period classical piece

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/03/2018:  10:48:09


Romantic...schmomantic ,I say. :-/.  Mahler, Schumann, Liszt, Chopin, Brahms, Tarrega, .....duh


Edited by - chuckv97 on 03/03/2018 10:48:43

FlyinEagle - Posted - 03/03/2018:  11:05:28


From one of the most well known composers of that period.

You can keep your Liszt and Chopin. I'm not trying to take a nap!

Mooooo - Posted - 03/03/2018:  11:11:49


I wanna see a clean fight here, now touch gloves, go back to your corners and come out swinging.

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/03/2018:  11:12:39


Reek-hard Strauss? TaiChiKovski? Do u consider ol’ Ludwig being in the Romantic Era?   Or maybe that refugee from Porter Wagoner’s band , Ricky Wag(o)ner.


Edited by - chuckv97 on 03/03/2018 11:15:29

FlyinEagle - Posted - 03/03/2018:  11:15:46


Russian

Mooooo - Posted - 03/03/2018:  11:32:05


Nice Clue, now don't make it too easy for us. We should have to work for it.

Mooooo - Posted - 03/03/2018:  11:53:45


Is the melody "sung" by a duck represented by an oboe?


Edited by - Mooooo on 03/03/2018 11:55:12

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/03/2018:  12:00:13


Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky, Rock-man-enuff, ....

FlyinEagle - Posted - 03/03/2018:  12:11:55


Tchaikovsky

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 03/03/2018:  12:19:36


Marche Slave, Op. 31 but it has a #4

Mooooo - Posted - 03/03/2018:  12:31:16


I thought for sure I got it with that Oboe from Peter and the Wolf, right key, right progression of notes, Russian. Darn Blasted!


Edited by - Mooooo on 03/03/2018 12:31:46

FlyinEagle - Posted - 03/03/2018:  12:35:39


quote:

Originally posted by mmuussiiccaall

Marche Slave, Op. 31 but it has a #4






Winner winner chicken dinner. 

Mooooo - Posted - 03/03/2018:  12:36:43


Tell him what he's won!!!

FlyinEagle - Posted - 03/03/2018:  12:46:02


Congratulations Rick,



You have won the Banjo Birdbath, and control of the next round!



FlyinEagle - Posted - 03/03/2018:  12:49:54


quote:

Originally posted by chuckv97

Reek-hard Strauss? TaiChiKovski? Do u consider ol’ Ludwig being in the Romantic Era?   Or maybe that refugee from Porter Wagoner’s band , Ricky Wag(o)ner.






That is it's own topic!

FlyinEagle - Posted - 03/03/2018:  12:55:09


mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 03/03/2018:  13:06:14


quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97

Name this relatively famous Canadian-penned song that ends on the 5 chord.




================================================================================
Thanks for the birdbath / spittoon(spittune) and let's pass back to Chuck.

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/03/2018:  17:39:33


There r others ending on a five chord, but (hint) this one was a minor hit for BB, (not B.B. King),,his vocals ended on a five chord (AKUS’s didn’t) , but there is a fade out instrumentally


Edited by - chuckv97 on 03/03/2018 17:44:54

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/04/2018:  00:55:18


Knowing youse guys are classical cats ,you probably don’t listen to country - this one’s from the 1960’s.

FlyinEagle - Posted - 03/04/2018:  08:16:17


Not true for me, I listen to a lot of country. I especially like the outlaw stuff and newer alternative country. I might recognize earlier songs but not know who is performing it. There was a lot of earlier C&W on the radio on my house growing up.

Still thinkin here

Mooooo - Posted - 03/04/2018:  10:51:51


I prefer Country to Classical but I like them both. I don't know who BB is. But I'm not going to search the internet for every Country song that ends on a 5 chord written by some Canadian. Is the song ending on the 5 chord the thing that makes this song an interesting and memorable? I see this as an experiment to see if you can describe a song well enough that we can figure it out with the info you give, not so much as pick a song that we have to scour the internet blindly, but I don't want to be the questionführer either. Like this one from Rick: "what is the title of the piece that runs up the minor scale to the 5th and then falls down chromatically in M3rds from there." He includes everything you need to know.


Edited by - Mooooo on 03/04/2018 11:00:21

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/04/2018:  11:23:31


I hear u, Mike. The initial question is just thrown out there in case someone knows the piece well, and there is something unique about it. Then I guess we maybe start narrowing it down with hints. I can’t stay online constantly to play this as if we’re sitting on a front porch somewhere - there will be gaps in this.
Not just the five chord ending that makes it memorable - it’s a bit of a folk/country/Bluegrass classic. Written by the same guy that wrote “Summer Wages” and “Someday Soon”

rfink1913 - Posted - 03/04/2018:  11:31:27


I wouldn't say "well understood," as if the matter is closed, but there are many musicologists who specialize in the unwritten aspect of older notated music. The best source is treatises on music and performance, which often tell the 18th-ct version of noobies how to play "with taste" the music on the page. 



And, BTW, if you don't like Bach, you're in good company. There's a reason his music fell almost completely out of favor until it was rediscovered about 75 years after his death. Tastes change. If you like Delius and Chopin, Bach is not going to do it for you.



******



It’s interesting to think about the interpretations of a composer’s work. Over so many years and interpretations of interpretations it becomes like a musical game of whisper down the lane. It’s kind of amusing to me how when period recordings are made there always seems to be outcry and disagreement over the performance, which is supposed to be the composers intent (How allegro is Allegro con Brio really supposed to be, etc etc.). Sometimes the period recordings fall short to my ear though, I think because we are used to full, modern orchestrations at the tempos we are used to hearing them at. Period recordings can sound weak by comparison.



With regard to the composer’s intent, you might have a recording of the composer conducting his own piece to refer to with more recent material. But would the composer conduct a piece at the age of 60 the same way he did at the age of 30? I doubt it. A composition (of any kind) becomes much greater than the sum of its parts once it is out in the wild.





Phrasing on the other hand, I have not put a lot of thought into how that may have evolved over the centuries. You play what’s on the page, but how do we really know how musicians stylized what was written back then. I’m no historian, of course. Maybe these things are well understood.

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/04/2018:  11:50:14


My rock friends used to think Bluegrass (due to its acoustic nature) was also “weak in comparison”.

Mooooo - Posted - 03/04/2018:  11:57:28


That's what makes it superior to me chuckv97. You have to play well without all the volume, distortion and vocal/guitar effects to sound good acoustically.

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/04/2018:  12:23:23


First three notes (key of C) are : G, A, C

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 03/04/2018:  13:22:42


quote:



Phrasing on the other hand, I have not put a lot of thought into how that may have evolved over the centuries. You play what’s on the page, but how do we really know how musicians stylized what was written back then. I’m no historian, of course. Maybe these things are well understood.






We don't. Just as they do today, performers in the past more than likely had their own ideas on how a piece should be played. It's also pretty well documented that even composers themselves revised their own works.



There really is no way to say what's right when the art form is as flexible and complex as music. Even a single performer can change his direction depending on his own mood or the mood of his audience. As I mentioned earlier, even though many composers fairly well delineated their intended phrasing with the use of slurs, accents, staccato dots, bowing instructions and by other means, some of that also may have been ignored or misinterpreted by their contemporaries, and many of those markings have been lost over the decades and centuries due to editing and poor copy work.



My own opinion is it's not that important; that we all have our own tastes and ideas about how a piece should be played. Although l sometimes wonder if certain composers might be turning in their grave over a note or two, somehow I think most would be sleeping peacefully knowing that at least their music is still  being played, and so their souls aren't going to quibble much when YoYo Ma plays a measure of Bach a bit louder than originally intended, or if The L.A. Guitar Quartet plays The Nutcracker on Guitars. Heck, their corpses may even enjoy the changes.



As for the current guessing game, I will not participate any longer. There are thousands of possibilities to contemplate, and I've got better things to do.



 

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/04/2018:  17:16:47


ok, let’s get this over with..... youtu.be/-N4CTAzu9vU  



and the original.......  youtu.be/wjfTDPhMdTk


Edited by - chuckv97 on 03/04/2018 17:20:27

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 03/04/2018:  18:18:56


Where's Jim Yates when you need him?


chuckv97 - Posted - 03/04/2018:  18:28:31


Yep, a good Canuck to the core!

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 03/04/2018:  21:13:41


Ok I'll try another one, what rock hit of the 60's four and a half minute solo starts in Dorian mode switches to Aeolian mode for awhile and then back to Dorian mode? BTW it took 40 years until the song was rereleased in the correct tempo and key!

FlyinEagle - Posted - 03/05/2018:  04:55:50


quote:

Originally posted by mmuussiiccaall

Ok I'll try another one, what rock hit of the 60's four and a half minute solo starts in Dorian mode switches to Aeolian mode for awhile and then back to Dorian mode? BTW it took 40 years until the song was rereleased in the correct tempo and key!






Layla?

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 03/05/2018:  05:59:41


Nope, four minute solo, Ionian to Lydian/Dominant to Aeolian to Dorian

Mooooo - Posted - 03/05/2018:  08:41:52


The Lydian Dominant has a #4 and a flat 7 right? Also are you saying that it switches modes with the same tonal center or does it jump up and down relative to the Ionian?

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 03/05/2018:  08:57:32


The Lydian Dominant has a #4 and a flat 7 right? Also are you saying that it switches modes with the same tonal center or does it jump up and down relative to the Ionian?



that's during the Bb9     Bb C D E F G Ab



The song I'm looking for plays the same two chords over and over and changes the modes for more interest.


Edited by - mmuussiiccaall on 03/05/2018 08:58:53

Mooooo - Posted - 03/05/2018:  09:06:37


The only thing I can think of with a long solo and two chords (that includes the Bb9 chord and Eb7) repeated over and over is The End by The Beatles, that cool guitar battle with the classic drum solo.

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/05/2018:  09:11:22


O sure, yooz guys know all yer high-falutin’ classikal and yer rock-n-roll, but put a classic folk/country/gluebrass song out there ,,,and blank contrarian faces, eh! I’m takin’ my balls and goin’ home....

Mooooo - Posted - 03/05/2018:  09:17:00


quote:

Originally posted by chuckv97

O sure, yooz guys know all yer high-falutin’ classikal and yer rock-n-roll, but put a classic folk/country/gluebrass song out there ,,,and blank contrarian faces, eh! I’m takin’ my balls and goin’ home....






I never heard the song you were asking about, so I would have never gotten it in a million years. Stay for another round...you might win something really good...you can have some candy.

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/05/2018:  09:23:39


As long as they’re marshmallow-filled. But I think my interests, being this is a banjo forum, lie in the bluegrass/folk/old time field.

(Qustn: How can you tell if the festival stage is level ?

Answr: If you see the banjo player drooling out of both sides of his mouth.)



...and furthermore, if you’ve never heard “Four Strong Winds” before, I’m not sure you have a pulse....and BB is Bobby Bare,, #3 on the country charts in the mid ‘60’s. Oh, wait a minute,,,did I say the mid ‘60’s?? Gosh, my apologies- if you remember the ‘60’s ,you weren’t there.....


Edited by - chuckv97 on 03/05/2018 09:29:08

rfink1913 - Posted - 03/05/2018:  09:30:46


Light My Fire?

Mooooo - Posted - 03/05/2018:  09:36:23


Crazy thing is Chuck, I love Bobby Bare, I even have a few CDs...but nothing with Four Strong Winds. And I always have a hard time with abbreviations. FMB, TitStraw, YCTYB....I always have to struggle to remember these.


Edited by - Mooooo on 03/05/2018 09:41:13

chuckv97 - Posted - 03/05/2018:  09:51:15


YCTYB ?? Mooooo?? BYOB.

Mooooo - Posted - 03/05/2018:  10:25:53


YCTYB - You Can Teach Yourself Banjo. Mooooo - isn't an abreviation it's the third note in the solfege system...Do Re Mooooo Fa Sol... Mooooo a name, I call myself. BYOB - Bring Your Own Bovine.


Edited by - Mooooo on 03/05/2018 10:32:16

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 03/05/2018:  10:26:20


Light My Fire is correct and my thought, since a lot people seem to be following this thread, would be to break it down as to what are the two chords and why did they play the scales described. That way hopefully someone could actually learn some theory.

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