guitarman8491 - Posted - 09/05/2015:  11:36:26

Dan that fiddle is really coming along..the inlay looks terrific! Enjoy the weekend.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/07/2015:  18:15:34

Doug,

Thanks!

Dave1climber - Posted - 09/07/2015:  21:28:35

Dan

Whoever is getting that fiddle is a very lucky person.  Fabulous!!  

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/08/2015:  05:09:26

Dave,

I certainly hope so!

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/08/2015:  06:04:33

MONDAY

ANOTHER DIRECTION

Today and at least for a couple more days I think that I will do something a bit different and more in depth than usual. Someday I'd like to be able to pass this business along to a younger person to run. Perhaps either of my sons Sam or Patrick. So with that thought in mind I thought I'd create a comprehensive work on how I do what I do.

Mind you this is just how I do this stuff, there are probably dozens of way better approaches. Many may create better results, work and even be safer. This is just what seams to work for me.

In hoping that y'all might find this interesting and helpful I'll pass this along to you.

Part 1 BANJO RIM TURNING

This rim is to be an 11" straight wall made for a 1/4" brass rod style tone ring. The rim will finish out at 2 3/4" deep (or tall).

In preparing the rim for mounting I always consider the direction that the rim is laminated. I was always taught that this is the safest way. First identify the direction of lamination. Usually I never mark these things, I'm only marking this for demonstration...

Being dyslexic the arrow is pointing in the wrong direction!#?#! Who'd a thunk it!

Still the rim is mounted correctly so that you are turning away from the lamination edge instead of into it.  I was taught this in relation to hand planes as a kid, later as the way to use power joiners and so I just figure that it applies here...

I usually true the rim to the lathe with this gouge. This is only for truing and a FIRM grip must be maintained to keep it from getting away from you, as it so quickly can.

Please note the long gauntleted gloves I always wear these when turning. Back years ago while turning a rim topped with ironwood a sliver shot off and imbedded itself in my wrist. In all the years of wood working this has been my only major accident. Needless to say I didn't break even with that banjo. That is if you count the surgery it took to get the 1 1/2" long thing out!

While talking safety here, I always stand slightly to the side, never directly in the line of the shavings coming off of the work. This is the same stance used with a table saw and the same for similar reasons.

Most of my lathe work is done with scrapers. I realize that to many this is considered to be low class lathe work. Still it was how I was taught as a child and how I feel most comfortable and in control. 

Here I'm into the next step bringing the piece to size with this shop made scraper. It was made from an old worn out file. It is as heaver than most store bought scrapers and does a great job. Someday I intend to make a nice long handle for it. 

By the way here in my shop I have several shop made lathe tools that my grandpa made from used files and they still work great!

Here I'm checking for size. It should measure slightly under 11". Here it is 11 15/16". I make this measure by holding the ruler flush to the outside of the rim and wiping the ruler back and forth watching for the longest measurement. I need to make a tool for the easy width checking for at least 11" & 12" rims.

One thing I failed to document here is that the rim also needs to be checked for square in relation to this top or outside edge. This is done with a square. Although because the whole rim has not yet been turned (so you have an edge) this can visually be checked.

Part 2 Soon!

guitarman8491 - Posted - 09/08/2015:  06:13:02

Dan..did you steam bend the rim or do you purchase them? If you do your own I'd like to see what your approach is. Thanks.Doug

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/08/2015:  06:42:57

Doug,

I do both. This one was purchased and that is one of the subjects I'll address in the future (when I make some rims).

guitarman8491 - Posted - 09/08/2015:  07:36:13

Dan..thanks..I tried steam bending a rim years back and never got it right. I moved on and have used block rims for the few banjos that I have done. I have at least another banjo or two left in me :) and I would like to do a steam bent rim. Really appreciate all that you share with us here on BHO.

Dave1climber - Posted - 09/08/2015:  10:55:15

Dan

A method that Ken LeVan uses to size rims is use a flexible tape that has the correct circumference marked for what ever size rim that he is turning.  It would seem that method is more accurate.

I will be following this with great interest.

Bufo Bill - Posted - 09/08/2015:  13:26:09

Dan, your last missive is exactly why I love the BHO. I am really grateful to you and people like you here who pass on this sort of knowledge.
As an aside I have watched you age brass on many banjos and I am at the stage in my craftwork where I am going to be attempting this myself. The mystery has been dissipated by your posts. You have already passed on a great deal of knowledge to a great many people. Thanks for that, my friend.
All the best from Bill.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/08/2015:  17:29:56

Doug,

Please don't hold your breath on that one! It will probably be this winter before I fool with that endeavor.

Dave,

That sounds like a great idea, I might try it.

Bill,

Thanks!

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/08/2015:  17:30:15

RIM TURNING

PART 2

The next step is to move the tool rest around so that it faces the outside or bottom edge of the rim. Usually I turn the bottom edge of a rim first.

I don't suppose that it matters which side one does first as long as there is  enough wood to match up with the tone ring used (if there is to be a tone ring).

Using the same shop made scraper as before make the bottom edge square and flatt (Lester). This can be checked with a straight edge held across the rim...

Once this is complete the rim is marked for thickness. In this case 5/8". This is acheived by holding a pencil on the tool rest and rotating the rim (by hand).

The tool rest is now moved to be able to work the inside of the rim. A angled scraper is used to reduce the rim to its finished thickness. With this lathe set up only about 3/4 of the rim may be turned at a time. I have considered going to faceplates and may at some time.

A shop made thickness template (not shown) is used to check for finished thickness...

Before removing the rim from the chuck it is sanded inside and out with 100 then 220 grit sandpaper. It's best to keep the sandpaper moving in an orbital motion. This leaves fewer sanding scratches on the wood...

Lastly the bottom edge is sanded. I like to slightly "break" the edges, this helps give the finish something to hang to.

When I'm doing a bound lower edge most of this is done with scrapers. This keeps the binding from over heating...

Part 3 soon!

guitarman8491 - Posted - 09/08/2015:  17:56:33

Dan..I'm not in any rush and just interested in your process of steam bending and the jigs you uses when you get to it.

tylerandal - Posted - 09/09/2015:  07:33:06

I would have loved to get some root beer from you!  This weekend turned out to be a bit more distressing than normal and I had to spend some time with my dad related to him falling off a ladder.  Hopefully I can make it down there sometime soon though!  I always enjoy the visit!

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/09/2015:  13:20:03

Tyler,

I hope your Dad is Ok. I'll call. I'll save you some root beer if you would be around this weekend.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/09/2015:  15:07:59

Wednesday

Today I'm out with Eddie on the Queen of the Mississippi. We have a full boat load of folks from (mostly) Australia. It should be a big time tonight! I'll try to get some photos!

 Fortunately I already did most of the work for this post. So here goes!

PART 3

RIM TURNING

Having completed turning the first half of this rim, it is time to flip the rim over to turn the other side.

First off I mark rim placement on both the rim and the jaw...

After flipping the rim I line up the earlier made mark...

The outside lip is then turned flush with the earlier turned side. This is checked for flat and true. Next the tone ring seating aria is turned flat and square. 

Because I'll be using a 1/4" round tone ring on this one I first measure and mark 1/4" in from the outside...

An approximately 60 degree angle cut is made from the line to the inside of the rim...

This is then sanded into the existing turning...

A small round scraper is used to turn the tone ring seat...

This rim has a small divot that needs repairing. It is perhaps five thousands deep. Not much and I suppose that I could wait until finishing to fix it . But this is as good a time as any. 

First I sanded creating a bit of sand dust filling the divot.

In with a little superglue followed by more sanding and repeated several times until full and smooth.

More Soon!

Bufo Bill - Posted - 09/09/2015:  15:09:38

Tyler, I hope your dad is okay.
All the best from Bill.

Dave1climber - Posted - 09/09/2015:  20:28:04

Dan

Thanks for the photos on your method for turning rims.

I am still thinking of Chris, and am assuming no news is good news.



Tyler

Best wishes to your dad, No more ladders for him!!

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/12/2015:  18:52:47

SATURDAY 

HOME

(BUT STILL) FOTOZ FROM THE TRIP

Got home late last night after 3 very exciting days out with Eddie Coffey on the Queen of the Mississippi.

Today was my twin grandsons Keaton and Bradan's Birthday. They wanted a laptop computer to share between the two of them.  So we headed over to the Pot of Gold Pawn shop where they used all their savings (and birthday money) to get a nice deal on a Samsung Google laptop.  This was the first time I'd seen one of these, but y'all know that I'm technology challenged!

Off to this latest trip...

Wednesday we were picked up by Darlene (the sweet lady in the photo under the flag) in Memphis, TN and driven down to Vicksburg and the Queen of the Mississippi. It is so nice to work with folks who take such nice care of us! We found out that those pieces of tire tread that you see on the highway are called Alligators. Who knew!

After we set out from Vicksburg we quickly came upon and passed this amazing craft!

I hope someone can tell me what it's all about.

I just sent an email off to the Army Corps of Engineers requesting information on what this monstrous barge type affair is for. There were four towboats pushing this rig. The first units looked to be berths and the rest, who knows. The were probably 40 or 50 vehicles, a crane, a bunch of earth moving equipment and lots of other stuff.

Thoroughly fascinating.

If I get a reply I'll let you know what I found out....

Eddie Coffey playing the Bass ...me, playin' the fool!

Serious...

Yes, yes, yes this is what we get to see!!!

Wednesday night just as the show was beginning we had some excitement on the river!

A group of 14 barges broke free from their moorings, broke apart and came freely floating down the river. Our great captains pushed us up into the mud out of  harms way. 2 of the barges floated by us and the rest were either captured by harbor towboats or got stuck in the mud. Needless to say the river was closed until all were accounted for and the river proved to be safe and clear. 

I am thankful for folks like the Coast Guard who work so hard to make these rivers safe!

These were the first 2 barges, stuck in the mud that we passed...

And another stuck firm!

3 gathered together and being pushed back home...

And of course what would a trip on the Queen of the Mississippi with a group of Australian folks be without a banjer class? Wouldn't be the same. These folks were wonderful! And they all got it! 1 & 2 & 1 & 2 &.....

More Soon!

guitarman8491 - Posted - 09/13/2015:  05:21:40

Welcome back..looks like ya had a great group to entertain. A bunch of loose barges floating free had to give everyone pause.

That picture of the work rig is interesting. I wonder if it is one group of equipment and support necessary for a large dredging operation.

DEmery - Posted - 09/13/2015:  06:17:25

Excitement on the river with run away barges..., and such, hey? Glad you made it back in one piece. I see you dragged along ole' Sherry Lynne on this trip from the group photo. Now back to the shop and guitar binding....

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/13/2015:  07:33:21

Doug,

First I thought that too, but I didn't see any actual dredging equipment so I figure it must be levee work. I may call down to the Vicksburg office of the ACE for some information on Monday.

David,

Never did I have any fear. These folks are great! I'm looking forward to these next few weeks where I'll be able to work without interruption (I hope)!

Edited by - Dan Knowles on 09/13/2015 07:34:08

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/16/2015:  18:47:53

WEDNESDAY

Hay everybody, here is a little something that I did today that I figured that y'all might find useful.

Have you ever fought with making a peghead truly symmetrical? I sure used to. Back in my early days I'd copy drawings of banjo pegheads, me with my tracing paper and Zerox machine. Heck I'd even trace commercially produced banjo pegheads and even they wouldn't be quite correct.

I fought the good fight attempting perfection that just refused to happen... that is until I thought of this little design technique (notice that I said technique not trick. I'm being uptown here!).

Anyway this is what I did...

I went diggin' into my plastics cutoff drawer  and found a couple of pieces of acrylic.  Each are big enough for half the peghead design. I glued them together. I guess I should say that I glued the protective paper faces, this stuff will come apart later.

After the glue dried I jointed one edge on the belt sander....

I used my peghead design to trace out one half of the design to the plastic....

Then I drilled the two tuning machine holes out. These are drilled in the center of each hole to about 1/8",  just big enough for a marking tool (scratch awl, ice pick or such) to get through. It is important to drill before cutting.

Then it goes to the band saw to be cut to shape...

After cutting it goes to the orbital barrel sander  to be slicked up.

Then the two halves are separated and the jointed ares are glued together.

Wala, perfect symmetry with a center line included...

TODAY'S EXTRA

Here are a few shots from Saturday's building class.

Zeb, & Kevin workin' away!

Zeb drilling holes for the bolt hardware for his neck...

Kevin making sure that everything is perfect, next Saturday it's off to the spray booth!

MORE SOON!

Dave1climber - Posted - 09/16/2015:  19:35:58

Dan

Thanks for the "trick",its a slick technique, and well worth using if you want symmetry.  As you can see from my avatar symmetry is not my goal.

Looks like an interesting day in the shop, including your pattern making process.

An update on Chris's rehab?

Dave

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/16/2015:  20:06:24

Dave,

Chris is doing fine, rehab 3 days a week. They are saying that even after a couple of years of therapy that he won't be able to raise his arms above his head. This is due to strange bone growth following the accident. Still that said, he is a computer tec. and so even though his range of motion may be reduced his ability to earn a living will not be.

Edited by - Dan Knowles on 09/16/2015 20:06:55

Dave1climber - Posted - 09/16/2015:  20:53:53

Dan

Thanks for the update on Chris.  The good news on the arm raising, is that you don't need to raise your arms very much to play banjo or work on computers.

guitarman8491 - Posted - 09/17/2015:  05:51:20

Dan..thanks for the update on Chris..my prayers continue for him.

Great idea to bring symmetry to a banjo peg head.

darlo - Posted - 09/17/2015:  11:33:36

Hi dan attended American banjo camp and I got to see one of your banjos in the flesh so to speak it was beautiful it had dots on the fretboard,unfortunately me and names not good,but none the less well worth seeing ,keep up the good work

Pine Cone - Posted - 09/17/2015:  14:13:03

That would have been my Dan Knowles Shine banjo.  Good to meet you Mark, enjoy your new Doc's banjo!

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/17/2015:  16:09:39

Dave, Doug, Mark & Scott,

Thanks all!

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/17/2015:  16:10:11

THURSDAY

SYMMETRY IN ACTION

Yesterday I made the template, now today it gets used... Does that mean that it is new or used? Or is it used or new?

A quandary for the ages.

I hope to do a post tomorrow on finishing that banjo rim up from last week. After that perhaps Hollis and I can start creating a new Reality Program instead of Duck  Dynasty, Survivor or  The Biggest Looser, call it say, Luthier's Loopers. Got a ring don't it? We could argue over how to glue binding or cut nut slots or clamp cracks....

No. Huh...

Well Ok back to the drawing board.

A center line was drawn on the peghead and now the glue line/ centerline on the template makes it easy to line things up.

Because The peghead veneer is rosewood, I use a white pencil to draw the outline... 

A scratch awl is used to mark where the tuner holes will be drilled. This is where the small hole in the template helps create accuracy... 

Here the drilling is done on a raised block so the peghead back can be held flat. This minimizes blowout (chip out) on the underside of the peghead....

Sawing the peghead  on the band saw....

Half way complete. the straight cut on the left is to keep the band saw blade from binding in the tight cut....

Sanding the peghead shapes out using the barrel sander....

More Soon!

Dave1climber - Posted - 09/17/2015:  22:41:52

Dan

That template works a treat!!  As always you make a difficult task look easy.  I have noticed that you do the peg head inlays after the over lay is glued to the peg head, that speaks volumes of your skill doing inlay work.    

Bufo Bill - Posted - 09/18/2015:  14:14:55

That little tip for stopping the saw blade binding will be very useful!
All the best from Bill. :D

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/18/2015:  17:40:29

Dave & Bill,

Thanks. I always hope these posts will be useful.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/18/2015:  18:11:13

FRIDAY

BACK AT THE RIM

Today was such a busy day and not much of it at the shop.  I was over working on Lee Academy for the Arts all morning and into the afternoon. There was plumbing (a plugged sewer line in the men's bathroom) (have I told y'all that I hate plumbing?), some carpentry & electrical upstairs in our pageant consultants' room and working with our local power utility & audio teacher on the locating of a new power service behind the school for outdoor concert events.

Needless to say it was 2:30 or so before I got to the shop.

Honestly I didn't plan such a day for myself. The plate just got fuller and fuller. Fortunately I'm not that big a eater.

Still I had promised to do a continuing bit on making a banjo rim so I did.

Banjo Rim Time

Now days I lay out bracket shoe spacing with one of several aluminum templates that I've made up to match different tension hoops. Here I wanted to show a method of layout that anybody can do this job in their own shop (without no fancy spancy templates).

Here I'm using the tension hoop as my layout guide.  Although you can't see them the hoop is wedged evenly out from the rim.  This keeps the hoop and rim in proper relationship. The tape underneath the hoop is just a yellow painters tape. I prefer this to marking on the rim. 

With all of the marks made....

Well except for the coordinator rod placement. First I laid out my centers then draw a square line. And yep... I marked the rim. I do use a little template to mark the bolt placements, that's what you do when you get old, lazy and just don't want to measure again and again.... 

Each of the drill centers are now marked with an awl driven into the rim wood....

Here is the rim and the drill press drilling jig. This one has been built and rebuilt. Now it works great!

Drilling. I love these moody looking photos...

I clean up the inside of the drilling with a cone bit in my Dremel...

I like to quick check out all of my work before finishing. I want to know for sure that everything fits. For this I only need four bracket & shoe sets, coordinator rods, a head, t-hoop and the neck....

After the head and neck are mounted I check to see if the neck is centered and that the future sting height is where I want it. It all proves good so now it can be taken apart and go to finishing....

MORE SOON!!!

Edited by - Dan Knowles on 09/18/2015 18:15:31

Dave1climber - Posted - 09/18/2015:  20:28:55

Dan

I like your method, simple, and effective.  The simpler the system, the less chance for error.  



Think of your first three quarters of the day as commuity service, for which you will be repaid in good will!  

GMB - Posted - 09/19/2015:  06:39:04

Dan, 

     I've read this thread from the beginning and I am impressed by how you use simple methods to produce exacting results.  "Why didn't I think of that" is a phrase that often comes to mind.  It's a lot like watching Norm Abrahm on the New Yankee Workshop.  Except better.  Thanks for educating all of us.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/22/2015:  06:29:21

Dave,

Thanks! I'm really not worried about being repaid for service. I feel that I'm just trying to give back a bit of what other folks have given me.

Gerard,

Thanks. Perhaps we should call this post the Old Southern Work Shed!

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/22/2015:  06:29:32

TUESDAY

KATCHIN' UP

As I'm sitting at the computer writing this I'm listening to a set of demo recordings from Anna & Jon Eaton's new recording project. Some very fine stuff here, don't know why they want a bit of my banjer pickin' on it but I'm glad they do!

I've been a bit negligent the past few days keepin' up with this post here, but today I'll try and do better. It reminds me of one of Eddie Coffee's child hood friends who would say whenever he was asked where his father was would say, "Oh Daddy's off in DO BETTER COLLEGE!" 

Friday Hollis was in. We started sweeping sawdust and such off of the workbench and stuff would fall between the cracks separating the 2X12 boards.

"That's it!" I said."We've got a pack of maple flooring in the back room we can use to cover this thing."

So we did!

Here we are laying down the first few boards...

The each were glued and shot down after kinda bangin' into place. Also after the first board all were cut before we installed them!

Here the bench with a couple of shellac coats. I may add some polyurethane on this just before I head out on the next riverboat trip.

Saturday at guitar building class. You can tell who the old guys are here!

Just note the eyewear!

I've not been totally happy with the way things were working out on the inlaid fiddle.

So I reworked a bunch of it and Sunday afternoon I got to the point where I could refill the work with black epoxy. Yesterday I scraped and sanded it down level...

On the face of the fiddle there are more of these inlay arias which need repair.

Originally they were glued and filled with hide glue. The glue has cracked and some is beginning to fail and a couple of pearl pieces are missing. Here I'm preparing to fit and replace one...

There it is in. The old hide glue is flooded with cyano glue and missing arias of glue are filled with a mixture of cyano and ebony dust....

Here is the back. Finished!!!

Just before leaving last night I attached the white oak guitar to a holding fixture. Today it will visit the binding router and in the next day or so I'll glue binding on it....

More Soon!!!

Dave1climber - Posted - 09/22/2015:  07:54:05

Dan

The back of that fiddle is wonderful!!  

The new top is also nice.  I can see from your last photo that it won't be new for long.   Did you cut 3/4 inches from the legs to bring the top down to the "correct" height?

60spicker - Posted - 09/22/2015:  13:57:07

Good question, Dave. Either that or build a 3/4" platform around the bench. Has potential for a comedy routine.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/22/2015:  17:13:33

Dave &i Terry,

In actual fact, the bench needed 3/4" to make it just the right height!

guitarman8491 - Posted - 09/22/2015:  17:29:48

Dan the inlay and roping on that fiddle back are amazing..love to hear a sound clip once you rosin up that bow!

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/22/2015:  17:44:58

Doug,

Thanks! Fortunately or unfortunately depending on ones view, I am now done with that particular fiddle. It is soon to depart back to the fiddle shop who I'm doing the work for. My fiddle playing is one thing you really don't wish to suffer!

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/22/2015:  18:12:35

TUESDAY

HOORAY! MY ELECTRICAL WORK PASSED INSPECTION!

That is at my house (today). Thursday we will have our new 200 amp service hooked up.

Thursday our new service for the Art School will be inspected too (Joe Snow & I did that one). Bets are it will make it.... I hope.

Today was a teaching day down at the shop and this afternoon everybody showed up and they had practiced too!

During the hours that I luthed this is part of what I did...

In preparing to rout for binding on the White Oak guitar I noticed one big oversight. I hadn't installed a butt strip. And as everyone knows you just can't bind without a butt strip.

So I made one.

I found a nicely figured piece of Macassar ebony cut and sanded it into a slightly tapered shape, then started gluing purfiling to each side...

Oh in case you are wondering I used a bit of cyano glue for this job. And that's wax paper under the strip...

Here tiz, all ready for the thickness sander...

Sanding...

I next laid out the location and marked the edges and routed out the mortise...

Because I hand routed (as opposed to template routing) the edges needed to be filed true. Not much but just a bit....

Epoxy was mixed and put in the cavity...

Then in went the strip...

And then it was clamped in place with a waxed cawl and a clamp...

More Soon!!!

DEmery - Posted - 09/22/2015:  18:20:28

I didn't know when the strip went in place Dan. That will look great and I assume will be similar to the fingerboard ebony later down the road. On to binding. I saw the guitar was getting set up on the binding bench earlier. David E. 

DEmery - Posted - 09/23/2015:  03:45:49

Oh Dan, I should check my notes but will binding be ebony strips too? David E.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 09/23/2015:  04:55:44

David,

Yep you are correct. The binding will be ebony. There will also be back / white purfiling.

guitarman8491 - Posted - 09/23/2015:  05:19:44

I'm sure that fiddle will sound great once a new owner takes hold of it..it is a honey for sure.