DEmery - Posted - 03/29/2013:  19:45:17

Dan that is absolutely a work of art and you are right...; there was no need to ask me about it. My imagination doesn't wander that far and I wouldn't have thought to ask. By the way, after you went over the neck with the 1000 grip paper and layed oil down again the result was perfect. I don't know how it could be improved. That label is really nice. I have had several banjos from you and none of the lables are the same. Thanks for sharing the story aobut how this finish was used historically. I am not familiar with the old finishes of Kentucky long rifles. If this was done on the gun stocks; they must have been beautiful. See you in a couple of weeks Dan. I look forward to seeing you and this banjo in Paris. David E.

rubicon - Posted - 03/29/2013:  20:41:22

can't wait to see this banjo get put together this is looking pretty cool!

Dan Knowles - Posted - 03/30/2013:  05:46:05

Paul,

My Muse can be a tough taskmaster... I just follow her lead.

David,

This whole finishing process has been a very traditional one. Besides using stains that would have been available ancient tomes, the finish is one of equally ancient vintage (in fact the bottle I have comes from  Bordeaux, France, vintage 1734  ).

Although I didn't make the finish formulation, it is very like the finish used on Kentucky long rifles by folks like the great banjo player Bobby Thompson. Basically it is Boiled Linseed Oil with various solids and drying agents. The basic difference between this and say violin varnish would be the type and amount of solids. Oil finishes can develop some build (of film finish) but never the amount that varnishes can. The main reason that this type of finish is used on guns is its ability to be repaired when damaged. Repairs made in oil if properly done, will vanish into the existent finish. This is not always true with other finishes. I should also mention that another common Long Rifle finish is/ was French Polish,

Rubicon,

I'm kinda excited about this too. Perhaps I will put together the rim today or tomorrow.

jbalch - Posted - 03/30/2013:  05:51:57

Magnificent - as usual.  I can't wait to see David's new banjo in person.

Dave1climber - Posted - 03/30/2013:  05:56:21

Dan

Wonderful,Wonderful,Wonderful.

From what I have seen, it looks as if you have the "pedal to the metal", and the throttle wide open on your work.  I also can't wait to see the finished banjo, but do take it a little easy.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 03/30/2013:  16:33:24

John,

Heck with the banjo, I'm looking forward to seeing you in person!

Dave,

It won't be long now... Son I am taking it easy. I haven't hit a lick since 3 this afternoon!

Dan Knowles - Posted - 03/30/2013:  17:01:45

THE FINAL SATURDAY IN MARCH

Today, like most of my Saturday's was a lutherie teaching day. Chandan, Eric and Kevin each made good progress on their projects.

Although all of that is so, tonight I decided to continue with a bit more depth into the many mini many banjo build.

I have decided that several of these little sweeties will receive frailing scoops. I know this may slow me down a bunch, but I wanted to do it, so I did. Because these are teaching instruments and not my usual custom  ones, I figured that they would be good practice.

First I cut the bulk of the wood off using my band saw. Then I went to the belt sander and slicked up the join.

In go some frets...

And a fret gets clipped...

Fret ends get cyno'ed...

Here is the jig for drilling the dowel stick mortise... Chandan's standing just beyond it waiting patiently for me to shoot the photo.

Now he's drilling the rims for the dowel stick...

And I'm cutting a glue escape slot in the dowel...

A walnut neck with the dowel fresh glued...

A whole batch with their sticks glued in...

And one of the stacks of drilled rims...

More soon...

DEmery - Posted - 03/30/2013:  18:11:02

Dan that is one stack of small banjos. If any of them make it back from the river tour; I hope to negotiatiate over one of them for the grand daughers that need early influence with a five string that fits their little hands. David E.

Kaelri - Posted - 03/30/2013:  20:02:44

Thanks for the "hammer at rest" photo.  I wondered what this hammer could look like and how you could "whap" those frets in without denting them in horibbly! 

I have a question again if that is OK. You mentioned, after you clipped the frets on the mini banjo necks, "Fret ends get cyno'ed". I think this is a glue? Does it follow the fret down into the groove and help keep the frets in place over time? 

St Augustine is looking so beautiful. I hope you will post a sound file of her when she is done! I'd love to hear her! 

Ellen

Dan Knowles - Posted - 03/31/2013:  06:04:53

David,

That is a bunch isn't it? I would imagine that with the response and interest I've gotten so far that I'll be making these "mini" banjos regularly. Out of this batch I'll have both 8" and 10" rims it will be interesting to see which works best with this design. And now that the design is fairly finalized I guess I get to work and make a few more. I can see why Marvin makes his little beauties, it's a fun build!

Ellen,

You are so welcome.

Cyno is Luthier -speak for Cyanoacrylate or more commonly called Super Glue. It is being used to fill and seal the fret slot ends, not glue the frets in.

I'll try to record something once the banjo is together. Perhaps I could get David or John to record something when they are here! That'd be fun!

Kaelri - Posted - 03/31/2013:  06:53:18

So if cyno is not a glue, and you used it to seal the edges...that must mean it has something to do with improving sound transmission? Does it reduce fret buzz? 

That would be nice to hear all three of you playing! I am sure everyone here would enjoy that. 

Ellen

Dan Knowles - Posted - 03/31/2013:  08:09:28

Ellen,

Everything that one does when building effects the sound. How much or what in this job? Well who knows? That said, I'm only sealing the ends because I like to and it makes a cleaner, neater job.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 03/31/2013:  08:31:56

EASTER 2013

(Saturday on Sunday)

This morning I am continuing from yesterday. We have big things planned and I may not get another chance today to post.

Here I'm doing a layout for tuning machine drilling on the many Mini banjos.

And because these photos were from my Lutherie teaching day, here is Kevin working on his guitar. At this point he is laminating a piece of birds eye maple veneer over his armrest on his guitar body. This arm rest is a carved softening of the aria of the guitar body that ones arm passes over. It is a lot of work to pull off effectively and I think he's gonna do it!

Eric is here preparing for gluing his fingerboard onto his guitar neck. Although there is no photo, He did get it glued on. Next Saturday is a neck carving day for Eric!

Back to the little banjos... I'm transferring the tuner locations to a peghead...

Here is David Emery's rim. I'm starting to put it together. I didn't get very far...

But here is the first bracket shoe installed...

And here is the Proto type mini banjo put together. Everything was designed for 8" rims and although I do have a few, most that I could find were 10" . This will be adjusted for in later runs. That is if the 10"s sound best!

Somehow I missed my smiling face. I'm smiling because it worked!

More soon...

Paul Meredith - Posted - 03/31/2013:  11:05:35

Neat little banjo!  I'm betting on the 10" rim.  Dan, I really appreciate this thread, I learn something valuable from each post.  For instance, I have just learned that two weeks ago I needed a dowel stick glue escape slot!

Will1717 - Posted - 03/31/2013:  12:04:30

Dan:

Looks like it may be time to jointly do some 10" and 8" spunover rim banjos. I've got a big supply at the shop but little time to get at them, as the new tuner project has totally consumed us. Never realized that there were so many parts in a tuner! Great to see that you were able to salvage some of those necks.

Bill Rickard

Dan Knowles - Posted - 03/31/2013:  13:04:44

Paul,

Glad to be of service! Yep if you don't want a piston you've got to have it.

Bill,

Thanks, they have worked out nicely. I'll be ready to start on some piccolo banjos very soon...tomorrowor the next day!

Thanks to you We Made it!

Hawgfiddle65 - Posted - 04/01/2013:  03:01:13

Hi Dan

The wee banjos look lovely. I'm interested by the round dowel sticks .I hope to use turned dowel sticks on my next banjo projects .I have a great local woodturner who can do some pretty neat stuff. I'm struggling to work out the best way to  brace the neck. How do you plan to do it on the wee banjos . Are these to be c scale banjos  or to be tuned a full octave over standard.

I find this post fascinating .You've certainly cleared up a few mysteries with the fine photography.

Regards from the West Highlands of Scotland

Jim (Hawgfiddle65)

Dan Knowles - Posted - 04/01/2013:  04:21:50

Jim,

Thanks. These banjos are being made on the quick and dirty. The usual square dowelstick holds the neck in line. Because these banjo have a round dowelstick I've stuck a screw through the rim into the necks heel.This keeps the neck from rotating.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 04/01/2013:  04:46:46

MONDAY SPECIAL...

Back at School

This morning Chandan's spring break is over so it's up early and off to school. So here I am looking back over yesterday and a few photos from the hour or so that I spent at the shop.

This I believe is the final coat of finish on David Emery's banjo neck. Coat 6.

Wax on Wax off as my pal Tommy Ogle used to say...

off...

on...

Hand rubbing, this IS where the term hand rubbed finish came from...

Someone asked me about the oil finish on this instrument the other day...

Now the rim goes together...

And together...

More soon...

Edited by - Dan Knowles on 04/01/2013 04:47:31

Dave1climber - Posted - 04/01/2013:  05:23:08

WOW!!

Kaelri - Posted - 04/01/2013:  06:49:37

Yeah! What Dave Said! 

DEmery - Posted - 04/01/2013:  11:03:36

Dan after 6 coats of oil and all that stain work the color tyme has come to a close. Looking at the hardware, finish, design, and even good friend's John Balch's coffee stained skin head; this has turned out well beyond my imaginatinon. After the oil finish cures a bit and it comes together; let me know if it sings too. You now how to reach me. David E.

rubicon - Posted - 04/01/2013:  12:13:57

Wow is right ! that look screams antique as an assembly  28304 and counting lol

Edited by - rubicon on 04/01/2013 12:14:38

DEmery - Posted - 04/01/2013:  12:37:41

Rubicon I am glad you noticed the "it looks old now" appearance. The plan was to produce a design that had all the finishes "dry and reliced" to appear old. I feel Dan has captured this like few can and it comes from his years of building and art as a painter, sculpter, etc.. Dan pointed out (as has John Balch) that this banjio will have an english look too. With the tunneled 5th string and stright neck lines many won't detect it as a 5 string immediatley. Dan was able to use a standard scale Dobson headstock by modifying the tuner plates to fit. I do look forward to the visit to Paris soon to see Dan; and pick it up. David E.

Dave1climber - Posted - 04/01/2013:  14:40:40

David E.

When that banjo joins your collection of elite banjos, your collection will be ever so more elite.

DEmery - Posted - 04/01/2013:  15:16:41

Dave I appreciate your note about Dan's work. I have been fortunate to work with Dan for a decade or so on builds. In that time he has built me the Sherry Lynne (all ebony banjo); a copy of the Jacobs 1840 right down to the scratches and nicks; the flush fret Goshen; a conversation S model Vega tubaphone; rebuilt a Master Model F 5 Gibson mandolin; and worked a trade for "Ole' Abe the relic minstrel used by Dan in his river boat tours and performances. For those watching Dan's range of work; he is capable of producing anything oldish or a new design that a player could imagine. This banjo will be special for sure and fit in well with the range of banjos I own; and as always a lot of fun to work with Dan through the process. It is always a sure bet the banjo will be more in the end than expected when the build starts. Lucky for me; I get to pick it up soon. David E.

Knowles Projects

1922 Vega S

New 1850 Jacobs by Dan Knowles, Luthier

Goshen built by Dan Knowles

1975 F5 Gibson Master Model rebuilt by Dan Knowles

Ole' Abe built by Dan Knowles

Ebony banjo Sherry Lynne built by Dan Knowles

 

Dave1climber - Posted - 04/01/2013:  16:06:44

It would appear that among master luthiers, Dan is a master of master's.

Kaelri - Posted - 04/01/2013:  17:31:13

Thanks for posting those pics David. My husband was looking over my shoulder and these "members of your family" caught his eye as well. We both think they are all simply beautiful.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 04/01/2013:  18:33:37

Dave & Ellen, I'm glad you like it!

David,

What would you like the first song she sings to be? You will be in on that song. Oh yes,I'll try and bolt her up on Wednesday. By the way, I have always found that working with you has been like steel and flint, something warm and good is always the result. I have appreciated your input but mostly your ever patient friendship throughout the years.

Rubicon ,

28452, crazy isn't it? Who'd a thunk it!

DEmery - Posted - 04/01/2013:  19:03:06

Dan if you can find the notes on Saint Augustine..., break it on on "St. Ann's Reel." I figure if all those notes are there; I can use half of them and play my stuff when nobody is listening. As for patient friendship - heck you had to endure all those calls listening to my suggestions and thoughts about the banjos we built. Now that takes patience. See you soon with the ebony wonder banjo and a few others for you to inspect with while I get familiar with the new banjo at your shop.

Ellen if your husband likes to look at photos of banjos - send him to my photo page and he can wear himself out looking at work Dan has done and see how I have spent my wife's retirement funds on wood and wire over the years.

David E.

.

Edited by - DEmery on 04/01/2013 19:16:33

Kaelri - Posted - 04/01/2013:  20:13:09

Here's to REALLY hoping that you gentlemen can put up a video of that tune when it gets played.  

David, We will peruse those photos soon. My husband is not a musician at all. When my daughter and I get out our strings, and family that plays join us, my husband always proudly proclaims that he can "play the radio" and that is the extent of that! ha. The poor fellow has no musical bent, but thankfully, he does enjoy listening to us. He always has been fond of wood and well-built wooden items. So that is the extent of why he likes seeing the carvings, and the workmanship on the banjos. He recently picked out an exquisite & very beautiful quarter sawn oak hutch for our next home. (We are house shopping now). 

Can't wait to hear that girl "sing" as you say. 

Dan Knowles - Posted - 04/01/2013:  20:58:55

APRIL FOOLS DAY!

What a day...

For the first time ever I received a speeding ticket on mu bicycle. I can't believe it. I was riding my bike to work (it is all slightly up hill) when I was pulled over by one of Paris' finest. Jokingly I asked him "how fast was I goin'"

"Ten over" quoth he.

"Can't be" said I reasonably "It's a 20 mile speed limit and there is no way I was goin' 30!"

"Ten over" quoth he.

"I can't ride that fast, even down hill!"

"Ten over" quoth he.

"Exactly how fast was I goin'?"

You got it...

"Ten over" quoth he.

No matter how I questioned, begged or pleaded still he grinned and handed me a ticket for 10 over.

Talk about setting a fellers day up right!

Still I went on down to the shop called my wife and told her what had happened then went to work on some little banjos...

First I needed to drill some 8" rims. I want those holes centered, equidistant and not "Ten over" quoth he. So I measured them and marked.

Next I went to drilling...

I have several of these necks that still need carving. I like that 1880's shape that some folks call "Dobson" but was common to many banjos in that era. So I carved it that  a way...

Here I'm scraping just ahead of sanding...

After sanding I oil finished this one. No David, it wont get 6 coats!

Now it gets a good wiping...

My good Birmingham, Alabama buddy Johnny Thomas tried to get one of the little banjos. But I just couldn't let it go!

HAPPY APRIL FOOLS DAY ...quoth he.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 04/01/2013:  21:01:09

David,

Saint Ann's Reel, you got it . When you see my name on your phone you'll know what you'll hear!

BNJOMAKR - Posted - 04/02/2013:  02:28:47

"You had me going there for a minute or two", quoth me!

Dave1climber - Posted - 04/02/2013:  06:46:00

Tenover, is that a city in New Jersey?

DEmery - Posted - 04/02/2013:  10:09:03

Dan that Dobson styled heel cut is nice on those banjos. They look really nice..., even with less than 6 coats of oil. David E.

Dan Knowles - Posted - 04/02/2013:  17:18:35

Marvin,

Goot!

Dave,

Yep it is a town in New Jerzy, It is just south of Johnson City, Texas.

David,

That's good, cause I don't have time for 6 coats!

Dan Knowles - Posted - 04/02/2013:  18:36:45

IS THIS THE IDES OF APRIL?

4-2-2013

Teach, Teach,Teach...

That was this afternoon. Guitar and Banjo. Sadly some of my favorite students, Bob Tyler, Jon Eaton and Denton Jordan (BHO members) didn't make it.That left a real BIG hole in my day. What's more fellers I did miss ya!

Before I began teaching this afternoon I did have a few hours to banjo build (I hope productively). So the most Mini Banjos necks got some neck carving attention.

Each of the necks are a little larger than the banjo rims (this was done on purpose to waste wood and we need sawdust for the garden) and so they needed cutting down. I've decided to continue with the 1880's bulb heel. It's kind of cute and I had fun making the first one. Furthermore it wasn't out of my system yet.

So grabbing a pencil I went to measuring and scratching...

Next it was off to the band saw to chaw them down...

Here are the whole batch after the first pass. There are 15 or 16 here I think...

Next it was roughing in the necks on the band saw. Some will require more cutting than others, Many of these came from my friend Bill Rickard, straight off his CNC router made for Banjer Ukes. These will require less cutting and carving than the walnut on that were totally made here.

When I'm cutting these necks I'm thinking of  diamonds. I know that might raise some eyebrows. But I cut progressively smaller facets on the neck until it can be carved and finished with a minimum of labor. Here is the first cut...

And the first down the neck...

Each neck gets maybe 10 or 15 cuts like these...I'm sneaking up on the final shape...

And the batch all rough carved...

THIS NEXT SECTION IS FOR BILL RICKARDS EYES ONLY!!!!

ALL OTHERS SHOULD SKIP THIS SECTION

Yes you... now don't look!

Bill you do remember what we talked about last night? Well I'm so sorry but I finally did it. Yep that's right, fixed the hole in the wall by the belt sander. I know it worried you to death. And I know I told you that I wouldn't do it. Ah but I just couldn't stop myself! I fixed it... I just had too.

THANKS FOR NOT LOOKING....

NOW BACK TO THE REGULAR POST...

Although the belt sander is not my usual tool of choice for neck carving, today I need quick and dirty... I've got to get these done. By rolling these I can smooth out the facets that were cut into it with the band saw.

Now fairing in the heel...

More tomorrow when I hope to string up David Emery's banjo. This afternoon I remembered that I have yet to make the tailpiece and bridge for it and I want to make something real special!

DEmery - Posted - 04/02/2013:  19:04:05

Really Dan you are going to make a tail piece too? No off the shelf stuff on this slot head. I will watch and see what you come up with and how she looks all strung up. David E.

Edited by - DEmery on 04/02/2013 19:04:50

rubicon - Posted - 04/02/2013:  19:26:59

Good thinking Dan a stock tail piece wouldnt do on St. Augustine it amazesme what you can keep track of in one day ...ps I can almost hear the faint sound of Saint Anns Reel ..30000 by tomorrow no doubt

Edited by - rubicon on 04/02/2013 19:31:23

Will1717 - Posted - 04/02/2013:  19:27:39

About time Dan! How about a bit of foam glued to the patch to bounce the parts back onto the sander!

Bill

Dan Knowles - Posted - 04/03/2013:  04:47:48

David & Rubicon,

Yep I could use one of those import cheepo Know nots (rather than No-Knot), but that would no not be fun! I've got to go look at the goodies in my cupboard. Oh Mother Hubbard...

This might slow me down a bit... we will see.

Bill,

 You would have a scrap of soft conveyer material left hangin' 'round, would ya?

Dan Knowles - Posted - 04/03/2013:  18:20:39

3-4-2013

EXTRA EXTRA

SAINT AUGUSTINE SINGS!!!

SAINT ANN'S REEL WAS REELING!

Tonight around 6:45 David Emery received a phone call announcing the birth of Saint Augustine, the slot head A scale, new vintage banjo. After answering the phone David was able to hear the banjos birth song. The first tune played on Saint Augustine was Saint Ann's Reel. The traditional fiddle tune was played by builder  Dan Knowles. The  banjo had only been brought up to pitch before being played, making the famous reel the first tune to ever be played on the instrument.

When pressed about  the tone of his new instrument all all David Emery could say was "That banjer is sure sweet and loud!"

When we asked Mr. Knowles for a quote all he could do was sob big elephant tears of joy. He does promise Banjo Hangout members a full report soon

Dave1climber - Posted - 04/03/2013:  18:53:41

Dan

Going by the look on your face that is one sweeeeet!!! sounding banjo.

Kaelri - Posted - 04/03/2013:  18:55:33

Best "Breaking News" I've heard in eons!  Can't wait to hear her soon! 

Dan Knowles - Posted - 04/03/2013:  19:05:56

3-4-2013

I see somebody beat me to the punch. Oh well you can't win 'um all...

Bill do you remember what you told me the other day about print reporting? See if you can find it!

As you can tell today has been a full day, so lets get right to work.

When I came in this morning on my main bench by minstrel banjo "Old Cremona" lay waiting. It needed some tender care to be ready to go out for the performing season. The pegs had gotten a bit slippery and the 5th. string tuner was about to  bottom out and it needed a new peg.

So firstly I chalked the pegs, just a dab does it. In fact here each one just gets one pass in one spot.

Then I stuck a new peg in and laid out the hole and cut off point.

After drilling and cutting to length, a eased ledge is filed near the top of the tuner...

Then the tuner is installed...

And then the strings go on. In case you are wondering, these are Chris Sands Heavy nylon strings. I like these better than Nygut. They are a stronger sounding sting and seam a bit more consistent, of course they are also a bit more expensive.

The tuner shafts (for Saint Augustine) needed re drilling so that they would be in the center of the slots. So I drilled them here I am easing the transition from the hole and the shaft.

Here this one is further eased by opening the opening with my Dremel...

After the tuning machines are put back together and installed in their proper places the screw holes are drilled.

In...

This piece of fossil mastodon ivory was chosen for the tailpiece. This ivory will not excite the enforcers of the Lacy Act as it is in excess of 40,000 years old. I really love the color of this piece. I've been saving it for years for just some special project like this. Here it is hot glued to a piece of walnut scrap. Next I'll lay out the string and hanger holes...

Drilling the holes...

After a bit of thought I laminated a piece of copper to the under side of the tailpiece for strength. After much sanding (to 1000 grit), shaping and re drilling the tailpiece is buffed...

Here is the tailpiece along with the hanger bracket and the nut. The nut is a very special piece of fossil walrus ivory. I chose this piece at the beginning of the project for this banjo...

Laying out the string slot spacing...

Laying out the 5th string pip placement...

Drilling for the pip...

Dropping the pip in...

After the strings are installed the nut slots are adjusted with nut saws...

Here is another of the tailpiece with the strings installed. The photo doesn't really do it justice. It has just a bit of transparency and just shimmers. I'm very proud of this one!

If I hadn't already beat myself to this one, I'd post the photo of me playing Saint Ann's Reel on Saint Augustine here... Oh well...See y'all tomorrow!

Good lord have y'all noticed we are over 29,000, amazing...

Dan Knowles - Posted - 04/03/2013:  19:08:34

Dave and Ellen,

I made a video of the first tune using my camera. Once I figure how to convert it from Quick time to WMF I'll post it!!

Paul R - Posted - 04/03/2013:  21:01:39

Dan! About that speeding ticket!

Check your state vehicle code. Here in Ontario, the Highway Traffic Act governs the operation of vehicles, and cyclists have the same rights and responsibilities that drivers have - except for one.

Because the wording of the Ontario HTA section on vehicle speed says "motor vehicle", cyclists do not have to obey speed limits! A police officer told me and I looked it up. Who knows? Maybe the same loophole exists in your laws. It won't cost you anything to look it up on-line, and maybe, just maybe, you might save some money.

When I'm doing my cycling instruction and I tell my students about the loophole, they chuckle until I tell them about the cyclists in High Park in Toronto who train in packs and regularly break the 20 km/h limit. They're often doing 40.

St. Anne's Reel! A great Canadian fiddle tune - one of my favourites! Great choice!

Will1717 - Posted - 04/03/2013:  22:05:52

Dan:

It reminded me the last time I got stopped on 2 wheels. the problem was I was testing a worked up Ducati on the 401 highway, just east of Toronto about 5:30 am one morning. Somehow I glanced in the mirror at about 180 mph and noticed a flashing red light in the distance. A bad day! I just pulled over and waited to see who they were after and it must of taken him a 1/4 mile past me to stop. Needless to say he wasn't impressed! First thing he asked was, was that thing wide open. I think I commented that it had just got into top gear and it  had lots to go, until I saw his flashing light. Amazing thing was that he handed me my license back after a lecture, and told me that if he ever saw that particular bike over the speed limit again he'd personally rip up my license on the spot. I commented that I'd do it for him! Don't think I went over the speed limit for over 10 years after that stroke of luck! I've since wondered that if I'd been going a bit faster on that Ducati in Italy I may still be playing the banjo today as it would have all happened behind me. Nothing to do with banjos I guess but Paul.s comment caused a flashback in to times past.

Next time I drop by your shop I'll put a bit of punch into that two wheeler of yours! Sounds like it needs a bit of horsepower in those feeble legs!

What I really wanted to say is the banjo looks great and I'm certain has a voice to match!

Bill

Edited by - Will1717 on 04/03/2013 22:09:07