TheChief - Posted - 10/05/2017:  17:51:52

Just playing with you Don. You know that, don't you?

I'm not really sure when I got the new neck. Figure out when Raymond McClain worked with Jim and Jesse and go back a few months and one might have somewhere near the date. I seem to remember Sunset opening in the early part of 1940. Ernest Tubb played there sometime near that. Man... wouldn't I love to have been there. Roy Acuff was there early too. 

I don't doubt that you were able to recognize a difference...I'm just saying that only RM heard and you saw. I'll take that.

s

TheChief - Posted - 10/05/2017:  18:09:33

I believe that neck was made in the late fall of 1996. According to what I can gather, Sunset Park closed in 1996. So, it is a possibility I reckon.

Now I must know...we'll revisit this later.

s

fitch5string - Posted - 10/05/2017:  18:16:24

Chief, did you travel with a back-up banjo and if so, what was it?

TheChief - Posted - 10/06/2017:  09:51:51

Cliff

I never took another banjo with me other than the one I was playing at the time. As when the first Chief came out in June of 98 and after I finished getting it's sound just right, I took 00 with me...and 00 only. Then after about three years I went back to the Granada and played it until the left shoulder stopped me completely...November of 2003, to be exact.

Incidentally, Raymond McClain worked with Jim and Jesse for a 10 year period...1990 to 2000. Raymond told me yesterday that the neck deal happened in late 96-early 97. We're getting it narrowed down. Raymond is a very good friend...always has been...and some kinda great banjo player, guitar, fiddle, mandolin, and bass player. One might say he's talented...a little bit!

I hain't done yit!

s 

Edited by - TheChief on 10/06/2017 09:59:09

chuckv97 - Posted - 10/06/2017:  11:12:59

I saw Raymond McClain with his family’s band at Bluegrass Canada Festival in the mid-70’s. He did the banjo workshop with Ben Eldridge and those two guys did about a 10 minute ride on “Grandfather’s Clock”, swapping solos, in the key of C , if I remember right. The older pro and young Raymond - it was great.

Edited by - chuckv97 on 10/06/2017 11:22:17

fitch5string - Posted - 10/06/2017:  16:46:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheChief

Cliff

I never took another banjo with me other than the one I was playing at the time. As when the first Chief came out in June of 98 and after I finished getting it's sound just right, I took 00 with me...and 00 only. Then after about three years I went back to the Granada and played it until the left shoulder stopped me completely...November of 2003, to be exact.

Incidentally, Raymond McClain worked with Jim and Jesse for a 10 year period...1990 to 2000. Raymond told me yesterday that the neck deal happened in late 96-early 97. We're getting it narrowed down. Raymond is a very good friend...always has been...and some kinda great banjo player, guitar, fiddle, mandolin, and bass player. One might say he's talented...a little bit!

I hain't done yit!

s 

---

The neck thing happened on June 18th, 1996. My picture is date stamped (assuming i had the date on my camera set right). I know it was June for sure though. If you remember, that pit that ya'll played in in Canton was always hot and humid as it is every June here. I almost passed out in shade myself. I dont know how you stood it on stage. Jim and Jesse were there that day too as was Ralph. Man, Mr.Monroe may have been there, I cant remember. He may have been to sick. He was there in 95 though. The Texas state festival at that time started on Tuesday with the Legends of Bluegrass and as the week moved along, the younger the bands got. I usually went on Tuesday and Wednesday every year.  I miss those festivals! . I was curious to know if you carried an extra banjo on the bus. Thanks for clearing that up for me!

El Dobro - Posted - 10/07/2017:  05:49:09

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheChief

Just playing with you Don. You know that, don't you?

I'm not really sure when I got the new neck. Figure out when Raymond McClain worked with Jim and Jesse and go back a few months and one might have somewhere near the date. I seem to remember Sunset opening in the early part of 1940. Ernest Tubb played there sometime near that. Man... wouldn't I love to have been there. Roy Acuff was there early too. 

I don't doubt that you were able to recognize a difference...I'm just saying that only RM heard and you saw. I'll take that.

s

---

From where we were sitting, the peghead had a green tint to the finish instead of a golden look, like the original, so when you took a break, we went in the back and asked what happened to the original neck. The look on your face was priceless. You asked how we knew and we told you. You then said you were going to have Neat take care of that right away. That was the last year of Sunset Park. I really miss that place.

 

TheChief - Posted - 10/07/2017:  07:58:57

Hey Dobro Don. I remember that happening but somehow the timing is wrong. See if you can find out when the park actually closed. Fact is that I tried to shoot the fan (ceiling) in Texas in June of 96 so I didn't have it then, and I did have it at Sunset Park in Pennsylvania at some point a bit later. Right?

We're definitely closing in, huh! DUM DA DUM DUM!!!

s

TheChief - Posted - 10/07/2017:  08:18:14

I think that's a teenaged Rob McCoury sitting on that bench right under the old dressing room window. Del and his whole family would come see us every time we played there. Before Del became THE DEL...The Dressing room as too small to turn around in so we dressed elsewhere. Bus, Restroom, etc...I remember that vividly. Remember that rest room???

s

El Dobro - Posted - 10/07/2017:  08:23:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheChief

I think that's a teenaged Rob McCoury sitting on that bench right under the old dressing room window. Del and his whole family would come see us every time we played there. Before Del became THE DEL...The Dressing room as too small to turn around in so we dressed elsewhere. Bus, Restroom, etc...I remember that vividly. Remember that rest room???

s

---

You were playing my old 6 and showing Rob the break for "Why Don't You Tell Me So".

TheChief - Posted - 10/07/2017:  10:44:55

El...do you remember the guy that had us, and every other artist, sign 20-40 different things, and had us use different pens. He was there every time we played Sunset.

s 

TheChief - Posted - 10/07/2017:  10:50:01

Terry is a guy that I've tried for years to remember his name. Seems as I remember you and Terry being close friends.

s

El Dobro - Posted - 10/07/2017:  12:36:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheChief

El...do you remember the guy that had us, and every other artist, sign 20-40 different things, and had us use different pens. He was there every time we played Sunset.

s 

---

It sounds familiar, but it also sounds like one of those things where it was time to see who was picking in the parking lot.

El Dobro - Posted - 10/07/2017:  12:38:33

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheChief

Terry is a guy that I've tried for years to remember his name. Seems as I remember you and Terry being close friends.

s

---

Yea, we've known each other and have been in and out of bands together for a long time.

Here's him now.

feinbergbrothers.com/terry-mcgill/

TheChief - Posted - 10/08/2017:  06:15:51

I think the autograph guy's name was Arthur.

s

El Dobro - Posted - 10/08/2017:  16:09:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheChief

I think the autograph guy's name was Arthur.

s

---

Did he also show up at the Lange Family Festival? I seem to remember a guy harassing Bobby like that up there.

TheChief - Posted - 10/08/2017:  17:08:38

Yep, he did.

s

El Dobro - Posted - 10/08/2017:  18:56:33

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheChief

Yep, he did.

s

---

He must be a millionaire now with all those signatures. 

I have a question for you. Back when Earl was endorsing Vega, do you ever remember seeing the Granada with "VEGA" on the peghead?

Years ago, I saw a publicity photograph with just Lester and Earl and right on the peghead, fabricated in metal was "VEGA" as clear as a bell. I believe I've seen other photos out of the session, but the peghead was cropped out.

TheChief - Posted - 10/09/2017:  08:33:42

I don't remember seeing Earl's banjo with the Gibson peg head covered however I have seen one or two pictures with him holding a Vega but I don't remember seeing or hearing him play it. 

I believe all the upper grade Vega banjos had the same pot and neck with different cosmetics...inlay, etc. I KNOW they made four different models for me and all were the same except appearance, and all of them sounded pretty good. I played and recorded, on Decca, using each. Bobby and I liked best the sound of the Roll Muddy River banjo which Kenny Ingram plays now. For some reason it recorded better...and had the most different "decoration" on the peg head. It's 51 years old.

s 

El Dobro - Posted - 10/09/2017:  16:34:16

Around 6:20, you can see something's on the end of the peghead. This was probably where it said VEGA.

VIDEO: Flatt and Scruggs NBC News Segment
(click to view)

 

bhrb75 - Posted - 10/10/2017:  03:34:00

Interestingly enough, if you look at the album cover for Up This Hill and Down, the “Vega” name on Sonny’s Pro II is intentionally blurred but it was not on the cover of Modern Sounds, which I believe was the next consecutive album the released. I believe Modern Sounds was ‘67 and Up This Hill was ‘66 right Chief?

TheChief - Posted - 10/12/2017:  15:12:43

On our albums mentioned above, Decca Records was responsible for the peg head blackouts. I haven't seen those albums for awhile, but I think I remember Bobby's Mandolin being blacked out too. I guess they were afraid of the legalities for some reason.

Eric Schlange, I feel for you and all the folks who live in the fire zones of California. Some of my best personal friends, (living in Northern California) and are packed and ready to go. Bill Evans and Jeff Markham are two of them. Jeff is in Petaluma and Bill is at, or near Redmond. I worry about them and you too Eric. I pray for you all to get 2 or 3 days of steady rain..beautiful, soaking, rain.

s

El Dobro - Posted - 10/12/2017:  17:38:49

Decca didn't have to worry about Monroe's mandolin.

chuckv97 - Posted - 10/12/2017:  19:47:53

Here are the album covers and the Roll Muddy River Vega....

(thoughts and prayers for the folks in the CA fire zones)

Edited by - chuckv97 on 10/12/2017 19:49:35

TheChief - Posted - 10/13/2017:  10:27:48

I long for the 331/3 Long Play albums...don't know why other than the covers were good...

Monroe flipped Gibson out with a pen knife...and scraped the finish off. He left the "THE" so no one would want to look at an ugly, beat up old "THE" mandolin, or so I heard him tell my dad shortly after the deed was done. I wonder how many mandolin players did their mandolin like that, because Monroe did. It was like that back then. I know of one guy who put his in an oven and baked it, hoping for a Monroe like sound.

 Man, how about that photo of Kenny playing the "Roll Muddy River" Vega. That is a great shot of the banjo and THE PLAYER...That man is the real deal when it comes to banjo playing...and a person. (and he uses my Hoffmeyer picks)  Thank you Kenny, and thank you Dean!

s

TheChief - Posted - 10/13/2017:  10:34:45

I'm really proud of this photo.

 

chuckv97 - Posted - 10/13/2017:  11:38:27

Great photo! I’m sure Alison and Kristin listened to a lot of your playing when they were learning.

chuckv97 - Posted - 10/13/2017:  11:40:53

Oh yeah, Mr. Monroe’s mandolin...lol

TheChief - Posted - 10/14/2017:  10:45:00

And then this, are there any questions? Chubby and Birch has white shirts and ties...Bill, Lester, and Earl does not.

Edited by - TheChief on 10/14/2017 10:47:24

 

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 10/14/2017:  11:46:59

quote: Yeah Sonny, You ought to be proud. A man of your age.  If you look close at that photo or enlarge it,  you will see some good looking young ladies to your right really smiling at you as you are singing. Man you guys with the voices have all the luck!

ken

---

Originally posted by TheChief

I'm really proud of this photo.

---

bbanjoboy - Posted - 10/14/2017:  12:56:14

On the subject of instruments... I seem to recall an old album of yours with Bobby playing a mandolin with either a red fingerboard or red inlay.... Am I being delusional or was there such an animal?

bbanjoboy - Posted - 10/14/2017:  13:03:00

So Sonny, First let me say that I mean no disrespect whatsoever with what I am about to share here.. but I thought you might find this amusing:
So some years back my friend and I walked into Earnest Tubb record shop in Nashville ... and directly behind the counter were a couple of your box sets... I commented on how cool it would be to have both of them.. and the guy behind the counter said to me "yeah, you could have both: before pot, and after pot"... I couldn't help but crack up.. Again, I mean no offense!

TheChief - Posted - 10/14/2017:  13:42:46

No offense taken...not completely true but....Both were interesting times for sure. 

s

Edited by - TheChief on 10/14/2017 13:52:01

TheChief - Posted - 10/14/2017:  13:59:22

Bobby did indeed have a red fingerboard on his mandolin at one time. He loved things that glitter. He had a diamond ring once that was probably an inch square...if my memory serves me right. One of The McClain family said he had a house on his hand.

Funny.

s

TheChief - Posted - 10/14/2017:  14:02:39

Ken...Now Now....We worked awfully hard!

s

Edited by - TheChief on 10/14/2017 14:03:56

El Dobro - Posted - 10/14/2017:  15:40:55

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheChief

And then this, are there any questions? Chubby and Birch has white shirts and ties...Bill, Lester, and Earl does not.

---

Monroe's mandolin still has the pickguard on it.

bbanjoboy - Posted - 10/14/2017:  17:16:10

He must have really loved that Vega then! That thing sure is glittery!!!

TheChief - Posted - 10/14/2017:  17:27:39

Bobby said many times to me, and even to Kenny that the pretty Vega was the best sounding of all the Vegas I had.

Come to think of it, that is a pretty darn good sounding banjo.

s

bbanjoboy - Posted - 10/15/2017:  07:34:39

Well, I have said it many times.. If you gave the Del McCoury band a bunch of Saga instruments, they would still be the Del McCoury band.. Many of your best recordings were made using the Vega and the vast majority of your fans / listeners had no clue what you were playing and frankly didn't care.... When I first started playing when I was about 10 years old I remember walking up to JD at a festival and I asked him "what kind of banjo are you playing".... looking back that kind of takes the cake, but the reality was I just liked his music... just like I like yours, Ralphs, Earls, you name it.. So I started on a 'rhapsody' and moved to a Deering, graduated to a Stanley tone, moved on to collecting, buying, selling, trading PW Gibsons, etc, now I'm down to just 2 a PW arch Granada and an original RB11, but guess what? NONE of them made me sound like you......

TheChief - Posted - 10/15/2017:  07:48:40

The photo from IBMA Rocky Top finale. 

Left to right.

Kristin Benson, Alison Brown, Seirra Hull, under her left arm you can see a mandolin..that would be Larry Stephenson, Bobby Osborne, Over his right shoulder see white hair..that is Ricky Skaggs, Doyle Lawson with hat, Me, Trey Hinsley...with Guitar, and a small object beside his left trouser leg is what appeares to be the right hand of Missy Raines playing Bass. 

Quite a band playing Ol' Rocky Top on it's 50th Birthday celebration. We recorded it November 16, 1967 and It's actual debut was December 25, 1967.

s

TheChief - Posted - 10/15/2017:  07:54:19

Kenny, my first banjo was a 20$ Kay,1948.

s

bbanjoboy - Posted - 10/15/2017:  08:23:04

And you were still the Chief!

deestexas - Posted - 10/15/2017:  08:28:22

To show all the participants in the finale:

 

TheChief - Posted - 10/16/2017:  09:10:37

Kristin, Sammy Shelor, Larry Stephenson, Alison, Brown, Sierra Hull, Doyle Lawson, Missy Raines, Bobby, Me, Trey, Jim Lauderdale, Bobby Hicks, ??, Michael Cleveland. 

I looked around once and Ricky Skaggs was there but he isn't in this photo. And, maybe someone will know the name of the young fiddler between Bobby Hicks and Michael Cleveland. 

'twas a fun time and a proud night for Rocky Top.

s

Edited by - TheChief on 10/16/2017 09:12:47

deestexas - Posted - 10/16/2017:  09:27:48

Ricky is behind Doyle.

TheChief - Posted - 10/16/2017:  09:30:08

I knew I would miss someone.

Truly sorry...ROB ICKES PLAYING THE DOBRO  And...

Ricky Skaggs is behind Doyle...Dees from Denison reminded me.

s

Edited by - TheChief on 10/16/2017 09:33:42

bbanjoboy - Posted - 10/16/2017:  10:28:11

OK Chief, I've got a question for ya.... After being a fan for about 45 years or so, I can see a lot of influences in your music.. but what has me stumped is this: your vocals.. You and Bobby had THE most incredible vocals in bluegrass EVER... So it begs the question, where did they come from? For example, on 'bluegrass memories'.. The blend is insane, you guys sounded like nobody else.. Where did that come from? It was just heavenly... "Kentucky" the way you guys moved all over the melody and came back together just sends chills... In comparison, Ralph singing 'Gloryland", Bill singing with the 'bluegrass quartet' "Jim & Jesse" even the Louvin brothers... all INCREDIBLE in their own right, but you and Bobby were like NOTHING else... There had to be SOME kind of influence, but when I consider all genres that I'm aware of, I can see absolutely nothing like the two of you.. Even the last 'Tennessee" on the last chorus of Rocky Top was over the TOP... As you once recorded "Thanks for all the memories"......

fitch5string - Posted - 10/16/2017:  13:37:04

Kenny, they are brothers and family harmony is hard to beat ;) I agree. Their harmony is incredible! Sonny, did you ever sing lead on anything?

TheChief - Posted - 10/16/2017:  14:15:50

Kenny, thank you so very much for the kindest words an entertainer can hear. 

I don't think I can answer that question, mainly because I don't think there is a good, honest answer. The Louvin Brothers were such a favorite of ours, and great friends... Not a direct influence but very influential. They were the best ever for two voices blending together almost as one and Ira wrote most of their songs and that was a huge advantage. The Everly Brothers, and The Wilburn Brothers too were very good.. But each of them did such different style songs than us, you can hardly say they were an influence, although they were just about as close as you can get to being perfect. 

Bobby's voice though, had such a pleasant quality and not like anyone else ever, and we tried so hard to make our trios sound as one voice. Blend, phrase together, and speak our words the same. We were also fortunate to have a group of great harmony singers...Benny Birchfield, Dale Sledd, Ronnie Reno, Paul Brewster, Terry Eldredge, Daryl Mosely, and Terry Smith. Just unbelievably talented singers, and each bought into what we were trying to accomplish. 

Kenny I hope you can get some kind of answer from this...I certainly can't. Sounds like a drunk rambler who doesn't have a clue what the question was...NOT TRUE. BUT SOUNDS LIKE IT.

s