Banjophobic - Posted - 09/27/2010:  13:38:00

---

Is it just me, or is there a plethora of Earl bashing lately on this Hangout? Earls not the inventor of all things banjo, but I dont see how trying to diminish his enormous contribution to this genre of music, and banjo in general, serves a necessary need in threads these days. Anyone else feeling this anti-earl vibe? Maybe it just me.....

---

Edited by - Banjophobic on 09/27/2010 13:38:28

mschlutt - Posted - 09/27/2010:  13:39:47

---

To paraphrase Rysher earlier today, Scruggs style is really the theory of bluegrass!

pickNgrin - Posted - 09/27/2010:  13:42:21

---

Attention seekers and wannabe iconoclasts. Just do them like the girl I love does me... pay them no mind!

-matt

---

Edited by - pickNgrin on 09/27/2010 14:06:00

Randy Escobedo - Posted - 09/27/2010:  13:42:53

---

Bashing Earl is 5 string blasphemy

banjotef - Posted - 09/27/2010:  13:43:32

---

Concur, pickngrin.

beegee - Posted - 09/27/2010:  13:50:01

---

If it wasn't for Earl, we'd all be picking Eddie Peabody style on our 4-string banjers!!

rudykizuty - Posted - 09/27/2010:  13:53:14

---

The bebop crowd did the same thing to Louie Armstrong when he was considered old hat. I have a nephew who honestly believes that the Beatles s**k.

Times move on and tastes change. There's not much that can be done with or about the unenlightened

= Anthony =

---

Edited by - rudykizuty on 09/27/2010 13:54:27

Julio B - Posted - 09/27/2010:  13:56:30

---

Good post, John! I find Earl's picking to be the most listenable and enjoyable of all. There is a smoothness, a sweet effortlessness, that I find unmatched by anyone. Anyone bashing Earl reveals more of him/herself than of Earl, IMO.
~Julio

Couchie - Posted - 09/27/2010:  14:01:22

---

Bash Earl, your loss.....

mrbook - Posted - 09/27/2010:  14:03:39

---

A lot of kids think their parents don't know anything, until they get a little older and realize their parents weren't so bad after all.

myork1 - Posted - 09/27/2010:  14:30:33

---

I think that might fall into that category of UNCONSCIOUS INCOMPETENCE. When you "don't know what you DON'T KNOW." Not that banjo players are supposed to know about complex theories like that...but they should certainly know about Earl.

I walked right up on J. D. Crowe in the lobby of a hotel in Nashville and just happened to be wearing an Earl T shirt (banjo event). I said to J.D. something about the shirt and he said "I love it. Earl and I had many talks and I've said many times, Without Earl...there would be no J.D." Guessing same could be said for lots of banjo heroes.

stanleytone - Posted - 09/27/2010:  14:49:20

---

boy this is a good topic.
ive always preferred the stanley sound myslef,but i realize the enormous part earl has playedin most everyone's learning of bluegrass banjo.i myself started with the scruggs book,even though i wanted to sound more like ralph,i knew that you had to get the basics down,and nobody shows the basics better than earl.
let me shoot a couple of theories out there............
1.many people may like earls playing but arent too crazy about lester's singing,which would make them rather listen to other bands doing the same tunes.many feel that way about the old stanley brothers stuff.
2.the generation that grew up on scruggs and his contemporaries is getting pretty old,and are being replaced by listeners who are listening to the second and third generation of players.
i mean ,chuck berry is the father of rock and roll guitar,but how many people today are blasting his music out of their speakers?
3.maybe some people are just getting tired of hearing"scruggs didnt do it that way"
ive actually heard one guy respond to that comment by saying,well, you know.............
4.maybe some people never forgave earl for letting his hair grow out and starting the earl scruggs revue.
5.some say that earl has never given enough credit to the banjo players that came before him,like snuffy jenkins.even don reno said that in the "masters" book.
believe me, ive been in enough campfire conversations about earl at festivals,and ive heard it said that because of that they thought earl was a little on the conceited side,as if he and he alone invented bluegrass banjo.( i swear it wasnt me!)
anyway just some thoughts to ponder....................

---

Edited by - stanleytone on 09/27/2010 14:59:49

SaggyBottom - Posted - 09/27/2010:  14:55:38

---

It's probably because he can't tune his instrument..

Banjo Tater - Posted - 09/27/2010:  15:08:41

---

Name one banjo player who has the flow and the solid sound of each note that he plays. Name one banjo player who writes tunes like Flint Hill Special, Earls Breakdown, Foggy Mountain Breakdown ect. No one can compare to his music legacy.

steve davis - Posted - 09/27/2010:  15:20:47

---

Some people believe each new generation is smarter than the last.

That's one of the worst stereotypes.

wrentree - Posted - 09/27/2010:  15:26:05

---

Those people just got lost. They just missed the clawhammer, four string, tenor, and all other styles forums. Hey, John, Hope you are doing good!!!

Brian T - Posted - 09/27/2010:  15:44:03

---

Can you name any other musician, anywhere, any instrument, whose style is more imitated and aspired to?

Ebanjo - Posted - 09/27/2010:  15:47:53

---

John and Matt, I'm with you guys and some of the others making good points about Earl. If it weren't for him there wouldn't be any of us.
Eric Ellis

tbfnyc - Posted - 09/27/2010:  15:55:52

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjo Tater

Name one banjo player who has the flow and the solid sound of each note that he plays. Name one banjo player who writes tunes like Flint Hill Special, Earls Breakdown, Foggy Mountain Breakdown ect. No one can compare to his music legacy.

---

Don Reno

biscuit joiner - Posted - 09/27/2010:  16:06:31

---

This is mostly the work of one troll who has started a few anti-Earl threads, it isn't a movement by any stretch. Just ignore him and move on, eventually he'll tire out and go home.

The Old Timer - Posted - 09/27/2010:  16:07:10

---

I live and breathe Earl Scruggs' banjo and guitar. Yet, I can see how some could get sick of hearing about him and his work, if they've decided they like some other type of 5 string banjo. That's perfectly fine I guess. It's OK if they want to move the spotlight, or ignore history as long as they don't try to deny it. If they like someone who's picking a resonator 5 string with thumbpick and 2 fingerpicks, they should simply grant that Earl is at that root of that, if they're gracious.

Without Earl, many of us would be playing like Uncle Dave, Sam & Kirk McGee, Charlie Poole, Stringbean, Grandpa, Wade Mainer, Tommy Jarrell & Fred Cockerham, and other non-bluegrass, country 5 string styles.

RatLer - Posted - 09/27/2010:  16:09:44

---

I believe Earl is still admired and looked up to by most if not all the great banjo pickers...and his pickin' is still hot!!

1935tb-11 - Posted - 09/27/2010:  16:26:02

---

earl is to banjo what palmer is to golf,
or ruth is to baseball or,
unitas is to football or,
pele' is to soccer or
itzhak perlman is to violin.
he is the alpha dog to the way 99.99% of us veiw the banjo

PERIOD! ! ! ! ! ! !


terry m
n.c.

minstrelmike - Posted - 09/27/2010:  16:37:05

---

Maybe there is a troll but I haven't noticed one.

Maybe Earl is just a touchy subject for some people?

Beardog - Posted - 09/27/2010:  16:37:40

---

Whenever I am on BHO at night, I have Earl in the background, playing a song over and over from Foggy Mountain Banjo. He is the master, and everyone else, pros and amateurs, are disciples.

The KIDD - Posted - 09/27/2010:  16:48:27

---

Well John ,we've talked in the past about this virtual world existing here on BHO of people hiding behind their keyboards pretty much sayin anything they please without having any personal accountabilty or poccessing any crediblity to make such statements.If it wasnt for WIKI, most wouldnt be able to post any pertainent info at all.As you know , these people RARELY have soundfiles/videos an are all talk (TOO MUCH)which usually indicates WHY they have none (thanks for sparing us). If they do, it NEVER rises to the opinions they're tryin to pass off on us. No real life personal exps that coralate with their postings. BUT, they're HERE Brother and have the same rights as we do. They think we're fulla crap. We think THEY'RE fulla crap. They know their ABC's and can type just the same as we. So, we're all equal UNTIL..... TA DAAAA!!!!! Ya do some diggin in the archives and then what their page has to offer.. Before ya lose sleep over how credible anothers opinion is, ask your self, Is this a person who would pick with me in a jam? Trade licks with me/share their pickin with me on here? Do they support others on here ESPECIALLY on "Sound Off"?... For many on here, the banjo is obviously just USED as an extension of their personality and its usually negative no matter what the posted subject or to try and boost a projected ego they could NOT live up to in real life. They can ONLY do this in a Virtual World.
They would be as quiet as a church mouse in real life. SOOOO, consider the source. We have alotta positive cool happenings on here daily.People posting about their first jam,finally figuring out a solo on their own,posting their first sound file /video etc. These far out weigh in value the people in Poserville who are getting easier and easier to detect. Let them bash away!!
KIDD

---

Edited by - The KIDD on 09/27/2010 17:21:28

robbyboone - Posted - 09/27/2010:  16:54:13

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by minstrelmike

Maybe there is a troll but I haven't noticed one.

Maybe Earl is just a touchy subject for some people?

---

Touchy....you bet! It's all about giving credit and respect where it is due......simple as that. I personally prefer a second generation banjo player, BUT I know who inspired my favorite and what Earl means to him and I know who laid the ground work for EVERY 5 string banjo picker from that point on. The person who says anything against Earl doesn't even have the sense to realize that there wouldn't be a forum like this for them to show their ignorance on if it weren't for EARL!!!!!

bhrb75 - Posted - 09/27/2010:  17:14:24

---

Terry,

Us banjer pickers ain't spost ta know how to spell them fellers names that play that long hair music. lol I never could spell Perlman's first name or pronounce it. I never have understood why the people I grew up around called classical music, long hair music."

Good to see you the other day.

B.

drew-gurbach - Posted - 09/27/2010:  17:19:33

---

I just like his picking...thats all.

OSCAR82AA - Posted - 09/27/2010:  17:25:52

---

I agree with how Beardog put it ,

Earl Scruggs is the Master and all of us,everyone else,even the ones that can pick the fire out of it are students.

And what The Kidd said , people can say about anything they want here and hide behind the keyboards,
we don't know who they are .

I study Earl's playing when he was young and it was so effortless, so smooth.
And Earl can still light it up, still has that great tone.

stringbreaker - Posted - 09/27/2010:  17:31:16

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by thombanjo

Well...there IS a troll. He not only bashes Earl but also MOST OF YOU PLAYERS WHOSE OPINION DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE YOU DON'T PLAY WELL ENOUGH ON YOUR SOUNDFILES...those are his words...

---

no, i said earl was overrated and repitious. that the music he played with his sons was horrible.
i got threatened, harrased, and told to post soundfiles. if i have to have soundfies to have opinion then those asking me to post better get some better ones. soundfiles dont make a persons opinion wrong or right.
the anti earl isnt more present than those bashing modern players. on here, modern bluegrass banjo cant play a melody and use blues inappropriatly.

---

Edited by - stringbreaker on 09/27/2010 17:31:59

Old Man - Posted - 09/27/2010:  17:39:07

---

You can't talk banjo without speaking about Earl.He's the Man.

stanleytone - Posted - 09/27/2010:  17:44:09

---

[quote]Originally posted by Beardog

Whenever I am on BHO at night, I have Earl in the background, playing a song over and over from Foggy Mountain Banjo. He is the master, and everyone else, pros and amateurs, are disciples.

..........i smell a cult.....

Society Hill - Posted - 09/27/2010:  17:56:43

---

Tune?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jack Nadelle

It's probably because he can't tune his instrument..

---

tbfnyc - Posted - 09/27/2010:  18:26:11

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by stanleytone

[quote]Originally posted by Beardog
..........i smell a cult.....

---

Amen!!!

dmiller - Posted - 09/27/2010:  18:37:50

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by stringbreaker

quote:

---

Originally posted by thombanjo

Well...there IS a troll. He not only bashes Earl but also MOST OF YOU PLAYERS WHOSE OPINION DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE YOU DON'T PLAY WELL ENOUGH ON YOUR SOUNDFILES...those are his words...

---

no, i said earl was overrated and repitious. that the music he played with his sons was horrible.
i got threatened, harrased, and told to post soundfiles. if i have to have soundfies to have opinion then those asking me to post better get some better ones. soundfiles dont make a persons opinion wrong or right.
the anti earl isnt more present than those bashing modern players. on here, modern bluegrass banjo cant play a melody and use blues inappropriatly.

---

Opinions are like eyebrows. Everyone has a couple of them

banjerman - Posted - 09/27/2010:  19:13:44

---

Its just you John....your stuck with all those F&S tunes in your head played off key....not in time......on a crappy prewar Gibson banjo........poor man.

Bradskey - Posted - 09/27/2010:  19:41:31

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by tbfnyc

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjo Tater

Name one banjo player who has the flow and the solid sound of each note that he plays. Name one banjo player who writes tunes like Flint Hill Special, Earls Breakdown, Foggy Mountain Breakdown ect. No one can compare to his music legacy.

---

Don Reno

---

I'll agree that Reno should get more props and consideration. He is the other great one and in no way lesser than Earl and also didn't descend musically from Earl. It doesn't take anything away from Earl, and it doesn't have to be an either/or. It just means we're even richer than is generally acknowledged for having not one but two giants, imho. They're both my heroes, along with so many others, but they're at the top. Bashers can go jump in the lake.

tbfnyc - Posted - 09/27/2010:  19:53:40

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by stringbreaker

quote:

---

Originally posted by thombanjo

Well...there IS a troll. He not only bashes Earl but also MOST OF YOU PLAYERS WHOSE OPINION DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE YOU DON'T PLAY WELL ENOUGH ON YOUR SOUNDFILES...those are his words...

---

no, i said earl was overrated and repitious [sic]. that the music he played with his sons was horrible.
i got threatened, harrased, and told to post soundfiles. if i have to have soundfies to have opinion then those asking me to post better get some better ones. soundfiles dont make a persons opinion wrong or right.
the anti earl isnt more present than those bashing modern players. on here, modern bluegrass banjo cant play a melody and use blues inappropriatly.

---

You are right. Earl IS repetitious. So was Django Reinhardt. So was Don Reno. So were Dizzy Gillespie & Charlie Parker. So is Buddy Emmons. So was Jerry Byrd. So was Bill Monroe.

They all played the same tunes and licks over and over. It is called their STYLE. These men were also pioneers of musical styles. Do you want to bash them too? Were they overrated because they repeated themselves too much?

As for the music Earl played with his sons, (and I admit I didn't much care for it either but never considered it to be "horrible"), they are his SONS! He wanted to play music with his family. What father wouldn't?

And what "modern" bluegrass players can't play a melody. Dennis Caplinger perhaps? Maybe you mean Jim Mills. Please tell us which players you are thinking of.

pickerjim - Posted - 09/27/2010:  20:09:08

---

I don't know how anyone could find anything negative to say about Earl. His style and sound are what hooked me on the banjo,and I can only thank him for the countless hours of great bluegrass music I've enjoyed.

If there has been Earl bashing, I guess I have paid it no mind!!

thombanjo - Posted - 09/27/2010:  20:15:04

---

Well there you have it...I didn't mention who the troll was in my comment. He did that himself in a reply. If you wish to try to reason with stringbreaker or to understand his motives for bashing Earl Scruggs and the majority of banjo players on this site, you are wasting your time. It's just hard to understand why an expert/professional banjo player would bash one of the founders of the feast.

---

Edited by - thombanjo on 09/28/2010 04:08:29

stringbeaner - Posted - 09/27/2010:  21:50:39

---

Seem like some folks just want to start a fight so they try to trivialize someone whom almost everyone thinks the world of. See what they can get started. I think an honest opinion can be put in terms that aren't antagonistic and hurtful.

Please don't get our similar names mixed up.

madkelt2004 - Posted - 09/28/2010:  03:37:35

---

Those who can't stand on their own merits will cast aspersions on their peers/

thombanjo - Posted - 09/28/2010:  04:13:58

---

Yes..a.soundfile dosen't make an opinion wrong or right, a soundfile demonstrates the player's abiltity. An expert/professional like stingbreaker should be PROUD to post a soundfile to give evidence of his self-proclaimed skills; especially since he criticizes all soundfiles on this site.

mike gregory - Posted - 09/28/2010:  04:25:28

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by madkelt2004

Those who can't stand on their own merits will cast aspersions on their peers/

---

Casting asparagus on their peers can be dangerous.
Why do you think they call them "spears"?

And, seriously, out of the more than fifty thousand members of the BHO, I doubt that there are very many who consider themselves the "peer", the equal, of Earl Scruggs, whether in his prime, or now that Old Age has tried to dim his dexterity.

Paul R - Posted - 09/28/2010:  07:14:58

---

I suppose everyone has the right to be a critic, sound files or not. And everyone else has the right to criticise a critic. I still don't understand the motivation for the original negative thread. It served, in my opinion, no useful or constructive purpose.

Whatever negative things one says about Earl, he was the right person, in the right place, at the right time, and he made/changed musical history. Were there others playing with fingerpicks? Sure. Were others playing three-finger style? Of course. But his style, in combination with the music it accompanied, stood/stands out head and shoulders above the rest.

It was the spark that started the fire. The fire's still burning.

Paul

Banjo Tater - Posted - 09/28/2010:  07:20:28

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by tbfnyc

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjo Tater

Name one banjo player who has the flow and the solid sound of each note that he plays. Name one banjo player who writes tunes like Flint Hill Special, Earls Breakdown, Foggy Mountain Breakdown ect. No one can compare to his music legacy.

---

Don Reno

---

Don Reno is a good banjo player but he very sloppy in alot of his playing. I have albums with him playing 'Kansas City Railroad Blues' and he goes up the neck and he flubbs it bad. Really Bad. Earl Is MUCH better.

Banjophobic - Posted - 09/28/2010:  07:48:27

---

Good grief folks, lets not start a Reno bashing either..%$#@. I simply wanted to see if anyone noticed an anti Earl theme lately and it seems others have noticed it too. Now I know its not just me. As far as the anti earl trolls go, one of who decided to crash this thread, they really dont know much about the evolution of bluegrass banjo and post from ignorance.
Thanks for the replies and for noticing.

Banjophobic - Posted - 09/28/2010:  07:49:18

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The KIDD

Well John ,we've talked in the past about this virtual world existing here on BHO of people hiding behind their keyboards pretty much sayin anything they please without having any personal accountabilty or poccessing any crediblity to make such statements.If it wasnt for WIKI, most wouldnt be able to post any pertainent info at all.As you know , these people RARELY have soundfiles/videos an are all talk (TOO MUCH)which usually indicates WHY they have none (thanks for sparing us). If they do, it NEVER rises to the opinions they're tryin to pass off on us. No real life personal exps that coralate with their postings. BUT, they're HERE Brother and have the same rights as we do. They think we're fulla crap. We think THEY'RE fulla crap. They know their ABC's and can type just the same as we. So, we're all equal UNTIL..... TA DAAAA!!!!! Ya do some diggin in the archives and then what their page has to offer.. Before ya lose sleep over how credible anothers opinion is, ask your self, Is this a person who would pick with me in a jam? Trade licks with me/share their pickin with me on here? Do they support others on here ESPECIALLY on "Sound Off"?... For many on here, the banjo is obviously just USED as an extension of their personality and its usually negative no matter what the posted subject or to try and boost a projected ego they could NOT live up to in real life. They can ONLY do this in a Virtual World.
They would be as quiet as a church mouse in real life. SOOOO, consider the source. We have alotta positive cool happenings on here daily.People posting about their first jam,finally figuring out a solo on their own,posting their first sound file /video etc. These far out weigh in value the people in Poserville who are getting easier and easier to detect. Let them bash away!!
KIDD

---

Amen brother, AMEN