minstrelmike - Posted - 10/06/2010:  10:26:13

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Dress

...Nothing to really refute his argument....Getting mad or kicking him out just plays into his method, I think....

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The trick is to remember who the audience is. My audience is not the other guys who argue; it is the lurkers who don't post but merely read for information.

If you really think you can change his mind with some kind of data or logical process, then turn it around and think what sort of stuff someone else could post to make you think Earl actually did suck.

I don't think it's possible.
So therefore, his trolling ain't a big deal. Just post some clarifications for the random readers.
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From the other side, it is bogus to demand a sound file before accepting an opinion. That's the sort of over-the-top demands zealots use which makes me want to warn the random reader that just because one side is wrong doesn't mean the other side is right.

Using that sort of criteria means someone who doesn't play banjo can not like any banjoing at all or you can't like/dislike Rap or Bluegrass until you can actually play it at a professional level. Even worse, it means if stringbreaker (or whomever) can play banjo better than Bill Monroe can play banjo, then his opinion about bluegrass music carries more weight than Bill's.
It doesn't.

Ron Stewart - Posted - 10/06/2010:  10:29:18

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In regards to questioning my credentails here's an abreviated list of bands I've performed and recorded with:
Lester Flatt
Curly Seckler
JD Crowe and The New South
The Lonesome River Band
Lynn Morris Band
Longview
Rhonda Vincent'
Bill Monroe
Ralph Stanley
Larry Sparks
Lou Reid and Carolina
The Dan Tyminski Band
Mac Wiseman
Kenny and Amanda Smith
Don Rigsby
Ricky Wasson
Dwight McCall
Linda Rhondstadt
The Boxcars
Adam Steffey
The Bluegrass Cardinals
Larry Stephenson
David Parmley and Continental Divide
Scott Vestal
Tony Rice
Blueridge
Tim Stafford
Steve Gulley
Alan Bibey
Claire Lynch
Bill Evans
Kathy Kallick

Ron Stewart - Posted - 10/06/2010:  10:41:49

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minstrelmike,
Here's the reason I want a soundfile. In order for someone to be credible, i.e. doctor, mechanic, teacher, musician, whatever, we usually need some proff of work, whether it be good or bad. I am not a self centered person, nor am I the kind of person to go around touting my works, or anything else about myself, I think it is wrong and for one my parents would kill me for doing so, and they raised me to do no such thing! BUT.... and it is a big BUT, when someone who starts saying things in the nature of this, with nothing more than a name to back it up, well then that's where things change. I have said it several times and I will say it again one last time, I do NOT care that stringbreaker does not like Earl or his particular style of playing, that is his choice, and if he had stated it that way, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But to come on here and say he isn't all that, questioning his ability, and what he has done for the banjo world, much less bluegrass music, that is more than a personal opinion! I would do the same if it were Bill Monroe, Lester Flatt, The Country Gentleman or any other artist that has made a difference in our music! So....that is why I chimed in, and believe me, I will chime in on something I know about and know that it is NOT true! This guy is just someone who needs to set up his CNC machine in a beauty parlor somewhere, so he can talk about things he knows nothing about and gossip as to who has and has not done what and nobody will care!

Ron Stewart - Posted - 10/06/2010:  10:47:30

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By the way, it does NOT bother me that you don't know who I am, hell there are people all over the world who don't know who I am! If I can be known for being a good son, a good husband, a good father, and in general a good guy, well what more is there really? Everything else takes a VERY distant 2nd place to all of that!

The KIDD - Posted - 10/06/2010:  10:47:34

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Well Mike I AM gonna demand a soundfile if a person rants on about something which I THINK needs to have proof or better description.Look how many ask for sound files from SB ..Thats gotta go for everyone!!!! Not just those your pissed at..Why wouldnt ya wanna share what you know on the banjo (Hell, this is a banjo forum isnt it.GEEEZ!)...Would you run for cover at a festival If I asked you to SHOW me that great lick you play on BIG MON?
If you were talkin to a group of beginners at a fest wouldnt you think they would wanna HEAR and SEE what your talking about?Do ya want people to know WHO you are as a picker..I treat being on here just like real life. So much BIG TALK on here continiously with no one wanting to disclose their "Playing side"..Those of us who DO share have a mutual respect for one another and have a support/bond that goes deeper than the self serving bunch who get on here daily tryin to prove how much they know. Yeah , if someone is talkin the talk, they'd better be willing to show they can walk the walk...Heck, Im offended when I see the guy at the fest talkin all the big talk of theory , who he's played with etc but wont break open the case...OH , too good to pick with us eh? Well sis on you pister...I dont get the people who INSTANTLY get offended when talk of actually PLAYING the banjo comes up. Boogles the mind UNLESS Ta DAAAA
They have something to hide

PS. Ron,I didnt see yourpost before I posted.

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Edited by - The KIDD on 10/06/2010 10:51:27

Bradskey - Posted - 10/06/2010:  10:55:11

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Ron Stewart wins!!! Game over.

pickNgrin - Posted - 10/06/2010:  11:08:32

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Here's my favorite Ron Stewart clip: youtube.com/watch?v=nBsRfE3p0Js

This video was shot by my friend Alan Forrest at a bluegrass festival a couple of years ago. The first part is just us BHO nobodies who Ron came to hang out with for about an hour before he went on stage. He was one of the most down to earth guy's I have ever met.... he just shot the breeze with us about banjos like any other BHO member would. As Alan observed after Ron left... "He's a banjo geek just like the rest of us". Meaning: he loves banjos and it shows.

The second part of the video shows him up on stage blowing the roof off the place.... it was the most high energy bluegrass I've ever seen live. Ron is cool, a nice guy, an awesome player, and posts to the hangout about his passion.... that's win number 8!

For me, this thread is no longer about stringbreaker or any anti-Earl sentiment. It is about people like Ron who are passionate about banjos and bluegrass, and who share that passion with anybody who wants to listen.

-matt

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Edited by - pickNgrin on 10/06/2010 11:33:11

Ron Stewart - Posted - 10/06/2010:  11:44:33

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Thanks Matt! Lets hang some more! You guys are what makes every mile, every all night drive, every day away from my family worth it!

Ron Stewart - Posted - 10/06/2010:  11:54:29

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I didn't have a sound file posted so here you go.

hangoutstorage.com/jukebox.asp...D%3D18579

Ron Stewart - Posted - 10/06/2010:  11:56:36

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excuse the rest of the band, I tried to play all of it, so guitar, bass, fiddle and mandolin players are a little weak!

bryantde - Posted - 10/06/2010:  11:59:16

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Stewart

Thanks Matt! Lets hang some more! You guys are what makes every mile, every all night drive, every day away from my family worth it!

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Matt,
I too had the great pleasure getting to hang out with Ron at Denton this past May for a while when he came over to my site and played some of my old prewar banjers!
Super nice guy and his credentials speak for themselves!
Well spoken Ron, you left no stone unturned man......
Don Bryant

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Edited by - bryantde on 10/06/2010 12:02:22

pipefitter61 - Posted - 10/06/2010:  12:39:21

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quote:

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Originally posted by pickNgrin

Here's my favorite Ron Stewart clip: youtube.com/watch?v=nBsRfE3p0Js

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Ron was out of tune there at the end!!! ROTFLMAO

Sorry, but I could NOT resist. Don't be mad at me Ron! Smokin performance dude!

Seriously though. I wonder if SB has perfect pitch and can specifically reference the out of tune notes? OR, if he has just heard the same stories passed down for as long as I have been playing (30 years) and decided that it was fact that Earl was out of tune. Most, if not ALL of those old recordings were made on equipment long before multitrack, and the capstan pinch rollers weren't exactly precision. Those out of tune moments may have very well been belt slippage, a power surge, or drain, and were simply never noticed. Really makes no difference to me though. I've met Earl several times, and he was a very nice man to me. Even let me play the Granada once. I'm sure the instigator will return, and we'll have no choice but to let him speak his mind, since it is a public forum. Sure has ruined his/her/whatever reputation though. Might as well close that screen name out now. It's worthless. The name Stringbreaker will go down in infamy as the person that "poked Earl in the eye!"

bhrb75 - Posted - 10/06/2010:  12:39:37

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I have not been posting much on here as of late and I didn't want to get involved with this because after what Ron has written, nothing I'm going to say matters anyway. :) But... If a man can't hear melody in Earl's playing, then he's either deaf or he has the record, but he hasn't opened it yet. If you really want to hear him play melody, get the Flatt & Scruggs DVD Volume 9 and listen to all of his split breaks on "Daisey Mae." Listen to "Standing In the Need of Prayer," "Ain't Nobody Gonna Miss Me When I'm Gone," "Love and Wealth and last but not least "Steel Guitar Rag" and tell me he's not playing the melody. Most people can't hear that when Earl played, he played how Lester sang it; punching those melody notes out of a rhythm line. Neighbors I don't think you can get anymore melody based than what he did on the aforementioned tunes. Anyway I just wanted to add my $0.02.

Thanks Ron for being an inspiration(you said some things on your Acutab video that really made a light bulb come on for me) and above all a good guy! Hope to see you soon.

Now, when I get home I'm breaking out the Flatt & Scruggs early 50's radio shows and going to work!

Brandon

Ron Stewart - Posted - 10/06/2010:  12:50:52

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bhrb75, THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! You get it, he played and phrased like Lester sang, the way one should try to play! Those are the things that make him great! And Hell yes your post counts after mine, I'm just one guy trying to pick, and one voice, everyone's voice should be heard! Even stringbreaker's, because one never knows how even a ridiculous post like this can inspire others to check out that stuff on their own and maybe pick up on things they might not have if this cat didn't start all of this garbage, so way to go stringpack!

Ron Stewart - Posted - 10/06/2010:  12:53:01

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pipefitter61,
That didn't make me mad at all, I play out of tune, and it's all part of the banjo! I have near perfect pitch so it bothers the hell out of me, but when you are onstage, show must go on!

minstrelmike - Posted - 10/06/2010:  13:02:10

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quote:

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Originally posted by The KIDD

Well Mike I AM gonna demand a soundfile if a person rants on about something which I THINK needs to have proof or better description....

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If folks want to learn banjo, they should know whether you can play banjo or not. Duh.

But if folks are talking about history of banjo, then a musicologist or historian or sociologist may have more expertise than a player.

And if you're talking about who you like the most, none of your expertise matters in any way, shape or form. Someone who has only been playing 2 months might like Earl a whole lot better than someone who's been playing 30 years. Ability to play is different from an ability to appreciate playing.

Being a professional bluegrass musician means you have expertise on being a professional musician: recording, practicing, gigging, but it doesn't _necessarily_ mean you know more about the history of the instrument, the construction of the instrument, or the sociology and history of musical genres related to the instrument.

Just because you're a professional football player in the NFL doesn't mean you know the history of the league or the stats of certain teams nor does it mean your opinion of who the best running back is is better than my opinion or Chris Berman's opinion (ESPN analyst).

Expertise in an area is limited to the area of expertise. Angelina Jolie might have adopted a bunch of African babies, but that doesn't make her an expert on Africa; it doesn't matter how many interviews she gives.

pipefitter61 - Posted - 10/06/2010:  13:05:43

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Warren made me do it! LOL

The KIDD - Posted - 10/06/2010:  13:34:49

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Well, not much more I can say, cause Id just be repeatin what Ron had said earlier. If you dont get that, then........You and I are gonna disagree on just bout EVERYTHING becuase we're two TOTALLY different people on here. As players, as to who our influences/mentors are/were, our teaching philosiphys, WHERE we play,WHY we play, WHAT we play, HOW we play. Im pretty up on my BG history as well as are most of my friends/supporters are but we dont feel we have to cite WIKI every other post. We enjoy sharing our music, collabing ,lending a helping hand and encouraging others.. NEVER see YOU post on Sound off??? (just the facts mam) I TEEOTALLY disagree about a Pro player knowing less than some braineeact who gets all this from books and a slide rule. They're out on the circuit LIVING this with others Pros who know this history first hand from the 1st genners.So yeah man,I respect your right to be here, as I hope you do mine but let it be known, I dissagree with 99.44 with your posting,as IM SURE , you do mine. If you dont wanna be apart of Sound Off, dont.. But dont discourage others from listening to get THEIR answers and support from us who do and not from WIKI.

larry p - Posted - 10/06/2010:  13:41:49

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I'm just so thankful that Earl Scruggs isn't on the computer and reading some of this stuff; I remember very well the day I was called to their home years ago after a certain 'book' came out. (Ron mentioned this so-called 'book' in one of his excellent threads), and saw first hand the hurt for both of them because of the cruel, IN-ACCURATE things that were regurgitated in that psychotic bunch of non-sense. They wanted to know who this person was that was writing such hateful things, and WHY? What had either of them done to him? As Ron knows, for over 12 years they were my landlords, so when asked this question, I had to tell them that the only thing they had 'done' to this person was give him a place to live when he was without a home, and inspire him to play the 'Scruggs Style Banjo'. While this person lived with me (who,by the way-I still Love and have the utmost respect for as a musician, and continue to have high hopes for) lived with me, I heard him struggle with trying to learn how to play 'Groundspeed' just like Earl Scruggs recorded it EVERYDAY (a tune that came along WELL after the book 'states' Earl had ceased to make any significant contributions or write any note-worthy tunes), and try DAILY to learn how to play a 'shave and a haircut' JUST LIKE EARL does. I also happened to be present when this misdirected person had an occasion to MEET Earl; and can tell you he was like a giddy teenage girl going on her first date.
As Ron and numerous others have pointed out quite eloquently-Earl Scruggs is THE REASON the vast majority of us are playing the banjo, either directly or in-directly. Beyond that, he's a wonderful, humble, grateful gentleman, and I have personally witnessed over the past 30 plus years that he has ALWAYS been willing & eager to help ANYONE learn anything about his, Mother Maybelle, or Merle Travis's music ANYTIME, whether it be a famous, well-known banjo player, or someone who is just learning. Many times I've wished he could see some of the wonderful, inspiring things that grateful, classy people who have been inspired by he and his work say about him on this wonderful forum, but I hope he never sees some of this stuff.
I can't believe I'm even dignifying such nonsense with a reply-I've got stuff to do!

bhrb75 - Posted - 10/06/2010:  13:42:26

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minstrel mike,

You obviously have never been around any of the real big dogs and seen first hand how much knowledge they have about the history of the banjo. In this business everyone counts but when you're talking about the people that have "the right stuff," they all know a great deal about the history of this genre of music and the instruments that are played. People like Curtis McPeake, Sonny, J.D. Crowe. Doug Hutchens, Frank Godbey, Ken Landreth, Tom McKinney and a few others really know their stuff, for one reason is that they were there when it was all happening ( Flatt & Scruggs w/Benny Martin a.k.a the beginning of the Martha White sponsorship in 1953, the New South Playing at the Red Slipper, the Osborne Brothers playing the first bluegrass festival in 1965 in Fincastle) and for another they HAVE studied the history. One thing I have realized about the GREAT players and the scholars of this music is that there is a common thread between all of them. And that is they LOVE the music and the instruments they play and to be a GREAT player, I believe you not only have to be able to play but you have to be immersed in all of it. In my line of work, to be a good engineer you not only need to know how your part of it is designed, but you have to know the whole package. That's one of the things I teach when I teach banjo lessons is a lot of music appreciation. To be a great player, you have to appereciate the music you're playing. I will bet that if you go to most of the top banjo players house right now, they are almost a museum of music history. I can think of two off the top of my head that I have seen personally that are practically museums that would take days to see everything. If you don't think musicians don't know much about the history of banjos, sit down and talk Gibson serial numbers with Jim Mills, Harry Sparks or Frank Scheopf and let me tell you brother, you'll be surprised.

Again, my $0.02

B.

Ron Stewart - Posted - 10/06/2010:  14:10:14

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Larry P,
I haven't forgotten who took me to meet Earl at his house in 1992, and how grateful I am for that! I grew up eating, breathing, sleeping the music of Flatt and Scruggs, and I will never forget the kindness Earl and Louis showed me, and YOU showed me by taking me there to pick with him! You knew I had gotten to play and record with Flatt and that I really wanted to pick a tune and meet Earl, and those are things I can never repay! If you ever wonder if I remember, I DO, and I can't thank you enough, and I also can't thank Earl enough for showing me the kindness he has for everyone, and for sharing his wonderful talents with the rest of the world!

Banjophobic - Posted - 10/06/2010:  14:19:11

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quote:

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Being a professional bluegrass musician means you have expertise on being a professional musician: recording, practicing, gigging, but it doesn't _necessarily_ mean you know more about the history of the instrument, the construction of the instrument, or the sociology and history of musical genres related to the instrument.

Just because you're a professional football player in the NFL doesn't mean you know the history of the league or the stats of certain teams nor does it mean your opinion of who the best running back is is better than my opinion or Chris Berman's opinion (ESPN analyst).

Expertise in an area is limited to the area of expertise. Angelina Jolie might have adopted a bunch of African babies, but that doesn't make her an expert on Africa; it doesn't matter how many interviews she gives.

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I think you really dont know much about the knowledge base of most professional Bluegrass banjo players Mike and it shows-no offence. While its not universal that all professional banjo players are 'historians', I think you'll find that most who play 'bluegrass' banjo, know more about its evolution, history of the styles and about Earl and other pioneers, than, say, folks who dont play bluegrass banjo. Your analogies to football and Angelina Jolie and good, but dont necessarily correspond to whats being discussed here (I would like to discuss Angelina more though..).
You have to look at whos posting here and now. The knowledge base present here in these threads, representing bluegrass banjo, is pretty sizable and accurate. When discussing bluegrass banjo, Earls abilities, techniques, tone, etc, being a professional bluegrass player with the ability to play the music well, makes it unbelievable important. Angelina going to Africa is about as relevant to this topic as saying "people who eat crackers dont necessarily know how factories make them".
In the professional BG banjo ranks, you'll find more folks who know about the instrument and the players who pioneered it, than you like to believe. We're pretty passionate about all thing BG banjo and we strive to know it well, from all standpoints. Some obviously know more than others, but as a whole, I think we're pretty knowledgeable about it.
Besides, were not talking about pure history, as much as we are the musical qualification to make statements like Earl couldnt write tunes, stole material, had a tin ear( evidently), had poor improvisational ideas and his licks were not musical. Who better to debate this than professional players? As far as the construction of the instrument goes, I dont think you'll find a bunch of musicians who are as obsessive about their instruments construction. My gosh, we tinker on them as much as we play them,haha. Most professional players know as much about the instrument as builders and set up guys. Since Im a professional player and Luthier, I see it from both sides. But the construction isnt the issue here, nor is the history the central issue either.
The big problem is folks who want to make big statements about Earls abilities as a musician, artist and professional, who are not qualified to make statements of that kind, if they cant play well themselves. They dont really have thel knowledge to make that assessment it, except as an 'opinion'. for them, its all just personal theory and conjecture. They like to banter it around on forums like they 'know their stuff'. If you know it, show us that you know it. We will take your views with a lot more credibility and weight, if you have the skill set and therefore, practical knowledge, of playing it at a high level.
An analogy that I find thats good is race car drivers. I can hear a guy talk about how bad a driver X____X" is in NASCAR. He can make all kind of claims and critiques and sound like he knows all about it. But ask him to get his arse in a car, go around Daytona at 200 mph and show us how he knows 'why' X___X cant drive. You'll soon separate the 'wheat from the chaff". But if that guy can climb in there, run laps at 200 and handle that car, I know he is speaking from true knowledge and experience and I will pay attention to what he says.
Its just common sense I think. Why is that so hard for some to understand,I wonder?

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Edited by - Banjophobic on 10/06/2010 14:38:35

dmiller - Posted - 10/06/2010:  14:31:24

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"Wheat from the chaff". I like that.

Richard Dress - Posted - 10/06/2010:  15:04:05

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"But if that guy can climb in there, run laps at 200 and handle that car, I know he is speaking from true knowledge and experience and I will pay attention to what he says." -- banjophobic

I hate to step in again because I don't like my leg getting chewed and slobbered, BUT ...

... let's just imagine that SB posts a sound file that sounds better than Sonny O in his prime, would that make you agree with his claim that Earl sucks? Of course not (I'll answer for you).

I think Mike is just trying to keep it real. SB must be laughing at the sight of us degenerating into a cannibal food fight.

fgodbey - Posted - 10/06/2010:  15:04:29

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quote:

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Originally posted by bhrb75

...but when you're talking about the people that have "the right stuff," they all know a great deal about the history of this genre of music and the instruments that are played. People like Curtis McPeake, Sonny, J.D. Crowe. Doug Hutchens, Frank Godbey, Ken Landreth, Tom McKinney and a few others really know their stuff, ...

B.

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Wow, Brandon! To have my name in the same breath as those other guys is, ummm, humbling, to say the least. I have been cheerfully content to keep my dog out of this thread, but as long as I'm here I'll simply say that Earl is the reason I play the banjo... or at least, these days, try to. Much of what Ron & Perk & others have said about it applies to me, too.

My list of credentials is WAY shorter that Ron's, although I do have a few. And one of them is that Ron has been to my house & we've played a little music together, and I think I've managed to hold my own! Not so much now, but I used to play "out" a lot more & you can hear clips from one of my excursions via the jukebox from my homepage.

That there are some in this thread who disagree with my thinking is, beyond being curious, neither here nor there; that's their prerogative & far be it from me to say they can't think the way they do. I know what works for me, and I know who to go to when I want to talk the talk, pick a little or listen to stuff I like.

OK, more than my 2-cents, but what the heck.
--Party on, Frank

TopCat - Posted - 10/06/2010:  15:48:10

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Stewart


Everyone has their right to an opinion and what they like, as that is what makes the world go around, and what keeps music, as well as many things in life continually growing. BUT, and it is a BIG BUT, when you go beyond an opinion to say Earl Scruggs, or anyone else isn't worth a damn, you're treading on thin ice my friend!

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quote:

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While I can respect anyone's opinion, I have to say that anyone that says Earl has done nothing but steal, be repititous, boring, etc.....well friend, you have a LOT to learn and probably not nearly enought time left on this Earth to learn it!

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quote:

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By the way, the players you list as your favorites, Bill Keith, Bela Fleck, Scott Vestal are some of my dear friends and also some of my favorite players as well! Although I didn't hear you say Bill Keith just copied fiddle players in his banjo playing, or Scott Vestal copying some of Bela or vise versa. I guess that is different somehow.

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Thank you, Ron Stewart, for the masterly and passionate annihilation of Stringbreaker's reasoning. You really hit the nail on the head with the above. As a novice with a couple of years on the banjo, I must admit that I don't tend to listen to Earl Scruggs as much as I should, but I'm well aware that Mr Scruggs was and is the foremost exponent of bluegrass banjo who has enabled those who came after to develop the music further. I was fortunate enough to be in Ron Block's class at the Sore Fingers teaching camp last year and he spent the whole week drumming this lesson into us!

I have to admit that your posts made me laugh out loud (no offence) - with delight at the verve with which you made your case. Absolutely brilliant, but unfortunately, such a reasoned rebuttal will do nothing to lead the trolling person to see the error of his ways. It's good to see a bit of passion on here though. Thanks again.

Ron Stewart - Posted - 10/06/2010:  15:51:10

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Frank, I will come up and bother you again to pick a little on that cheap ole banjo! Ha! You're a good friend and I consider it a pleasure to know you and Marty!

TopCat - Posted - 10/06/2010:  15:56:34

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quote:

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Originally posted by pickNgrin

Most of the folks who tear down Earl, or rebel against what they perceive as worshipping, hold up other players as being superior: Bela, Jens Krueger, Bill Keith, Noam Pikelny, etc.

The crazy thing is... all of those "superior" players would the first ones to tell you how important Earl's contributions were! I have read a lot of interviews with great players, including the ones listed above, and to my recollection not one of them shares the view that Earl was overrated. Quite the contrary... they all recognize that Earl's made a seminal contribution to the music world and worked very hard to unlock the secrets of his style.

In becoming masters themselves, these guys all were either directly inspired by Earl, or inspired by somebody who was in turn inspired by Earl. They all recognize and appreciate the sublime beauty of the Scruggs style, and used it as a foundation to build their own sound.

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Absolutely spot on, Matt. In my short time playing, I've been fortunate enough to attend workshops/ banjo camps with some great players, including Ron Block, Tony Furtado, Jens Kruger, the UK's John Dowling - and they all spent a great deal of time referring to and explaining Earl's influence on bluegrass music in general and on their own playing.

Gymbal31 - Posted - 10/06/2010:  16:18:06

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gymbal31

quote:

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Originally posted by Gymbal31

Stringsucker, I'm still waiting for your reply. In your blog, you asked for an example of an Earl song with a melody. I gave you one, "American Made - World Played". Two weeks ago. you've posted here and on your blog several times since then, but you still haven't responded. This is another example of you picking and choosing what parts of posts you reply to and ignoring what you have no answer for.

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And I'm still waiting.

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And I am still waiting.

sigh.

Gymbal31 - Posted - 10/06/2010:  16:19:04

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Stewart

In regards to questioning my credentails here's an abreviated list of bands I've performed and recorded with:
Lester Flatt
Curly Seckler
JD Crowe and The New South
The Lonesome River Band
Lynn Morris Band
Longview
Rhonda Vincent'
Bill Monroe
Ralph Stanley
Larry Sparks
Lou Reid and Carolina
The Dan Tyminski Band
Mac Wiseman
Kenny and Amanda Smith
Don Rigsby
Ricky Wasson
Dwight McCall
Linda Rhondstadt
The Boxcars
Adam Steffey
The Bluegrass Cardinals
Larry Stephenson
David Parmley and Continental Divide
Scott Vestal
Tony Rice
Blueridge
Tim Stafford
Steve Gulley
Alan Bibey
Claire Lynch
Bill Evans
Kathy Kallick

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What a hack.

JohnTheWhite - Posted - 10/06/2010:  16:27:58

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This is really the age old discussion, “What is art?” Music as art can be defined quite specifically. There must be a cultural tradition, and the art in question must follow, respect, and refine that tradition. That’s why the statement made earlier that Earl can’t be a musical genius, because he wasn’t the first to use a 3-finger roll, or some such, is ridiculous. Art can only be appreciated if the observer has some basis for comparison. From what I have learned from reading about some of the people who were profoundly influenced by Earl Scruggs, (Clarence White, Doug Dillard, Bill Keith, Ron Stewart and many more), his contribution was not just the 3-finger roll but the 3-finger roll played with flawless, repeatable syncopation. Earl didn’t invent syncopation either and probably neither did Mozart, but Earl brought it to bluegrass music and it profoundly influenced the sound. Ever wonder why Texas Swing music effectively bans the banjo and the Martin Guitar? Both Bluegrass and Texas Swing sprang from the same loins, but Earl Scruggs and his influence on others, like Clarence White who brought Earl’s syncopation and melody to the guitar, really distinguished them. Today only bluegrass is really relevant, but there was a time when Texas Swing was heard everywhere.

Ebanjo - Posted - 10/06/2010:  16:53:27

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Ron, Larry, Brandon, Frank, John and some of the rest of you all. You've hit the nail on the head. Hope this blows over soon. I think stringtaker, er , tinkler, uh, whatever his name is has just done a
bang-up job of showing his ignorance. That should've been with capitol letters (IGNORANCE).
Eric Ellis

kipperr - Posted - 10/06/2010:  16:54:28

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quote:

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Originally posted by JohnTheWhite

Ever wonder why Texas Swing music effectively bans the banjo and the Martin Guitar?

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I'll bite, why? Excuse my ignorance, but I've always wondered about this. Although there was some banjo in Texas Swing, it was strummed, not rolled.

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Edited by - kipperr on 10/06/2010 16:56:23

DHoffmeyer - Posted - 10/06/2010:  17:16:26

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Parts of BHO have been tracing their way down hill to the swamp for a while, tied to the activity of unknown trolls who operate without gentlemanly courtesy. Most of us just ignore it and log in less. I'm guilty.
Thanks Ron for adding in your words. I think even if Earl had never played banjo, he'd still be one of the coolest guys in the world. BUT HE DID, and the world is way better because of it!

Banjophobic - Posted - 10/06/2010:  18:14:22

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Dress

"
... let's just imagine that SB posts a sound file that sounds better than Sonny O in his prime, would that make you agree with his claim that Earl sucks? Of course not (I'll answer for you).

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Richard

A) If stringbreaker was that good, yes I would have much respect for his opinion about high level banjo ,such as Earls playing (professional courtesy and common sense) and B) If he were at such a high level, as in Sonny's classification, then he wouldnt be making such ridiculous comments about Earls skill set-would he?
You trying to apply logic to someone whos obviously a poser and troll.
We have established, I hope, Thats hes taking these threads way past 'I dont like Earls playing", to announcing lack of skills and other things related to skills. In this type of debate, we need to see proof that he has "Sonny level skills" before we can even consider what he says has a basis in real world talent and knowledge. If he cant play worth a crap, then no, I dont consider his 'knowledge base' to be enough to judge Earls Skill set. This is where put up or shut up really does apply.
Im not ever going to reply to him again, since I know what hes up to and who hes in cahoots with now. But I can see this logically, from a posting standpoint.

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Edited by - Banjophobic on 10/06/2010 18:21:36

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 10/06/2010:  19:23:54

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Dress

... let's just imagine that SB posts a sound file that sounds better than Sonny O in his prime, would that make you agree with his claim that Earl sucks? Of course not (I'll answer for you).

SB must be laughing at the sight of us degenerating into a cannibal food fight.

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Richard,
I agree SB is either getting a good laugh or doing something else?. But regarding his posting sound files: SB on his homepage claims to be at the expert/professional level and to have been playing for 40 years (since he was 6. Since SB has made these statements and well as many other I think the posting of sound files is a legitimate way of checking if SB has been truthful and is really presenting his point of view or if he has just been trolling and trying to cause reactions.
Ken

Richard Dress - Posted - 10/06/2010:  19:44:52

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Ken, I am in sympathy with both you and John in what you are saying, but in the long run what SB says is nonsense and no sound files good or bad can magically turn the BS into something meaningful. Even if he somehow got Earl to agree with him, he's still full of it.

Earl is a genius and a world-class artist--that's the simple history; it can't be changed.

stringbreaker - Posted - 10/06/2010:  19:59:50

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quote:

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Originally posted by thombanjo

Ron...thank you for giving a strong voice to what many of us have been feeling about this fraud player. I wrote once asking Bill Singley alias stringf___er to let us know where we could go see him play. I guess he's an expert/pro who never has a gig...wonder how you get to be a pro without playing in fron of a paying crowd ? He should be investigated and asked to leave this site. It clearly is a twisted goal of his to only anger everyone on this site. Surely some one from BHO could ask for directions to Snugley's next gig. They could do a BHO On the Road special starting with stringfaker. Bill Singley is a liar, a phony, an instigator, and a coward. We all have said that we hated to get down into the mucky crap of psychobreaker's cruel obsession with Earl Scruggs...hopefully, you will be able to wash the mud off as well. I don't play bluegrass much and my original tunes ( as you can see on my page) are more folk or ballad like BUT I TAKE GREAT OFFENSE to what a so-called musician has done to the name and honor of Earl and now even you. Music in many forms, not just bluegrass, is a gift from God. Anyone who plays it knows that something magic happens to the player and the audience. Snigley CAN'T BE A MUSICIAN; he simply doesn't think or act like one. I would kill to be able to play like You and JD, Munde, Emerson, Osborne, Vestal, Kruger, Trischka, Fleck, Eldridge, Tony Ellis ( my friend and hero ), Keith, A. Brown, Stevie Barr,Shelor,Robbins, Stanley,John Hartford and Earl Scruggs and others known and even only known to their local friends and fellow players in counties and small towns across the country. Snigley denegrades all of them and should be ashamed. Too many words here...thanks again for puting your heart on the page and thanks for your great music.

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thom you and ron both shouldnt get so angry. its not good

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Edited by - stringbreaker on 10/06/2010 20:10:51

stringbreaker - Posted - 10/06/2010:  20:03:11

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Stewart

In regards to questioning my credentails here's an abreviated list of bands I've performed and recorded with:
Lester Flatt
Curly Seckler
JD Crowe and The New South
The Lonesome River Band
Lynn Morris Band
Longview
Rhonda Vincent'
Bill Monroe
Ralph Stanley
Larry Sparks
Lou Reid and Carolina
The Dan Tyminski Band
Mac Wiseman
Kenny and Amanda Smith
Don Rigsby
Ricky Wasson
Dwight McCall
Linda Rhondstadt
The Boxcars
Adam Steffey
The Bluegrass Cardinals
Larry Stephenson
David Parmley and Continental Divide
Scott Vestal
Tony Rice
Blueridge
Tim Stafford
Steve Gulley
Alan Bibey
Claire Lynch
Bill Evans
Kathy Kallick

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thank you ron, i dont know what wed do without them

stringbreaker - Posted - 10/06/2010:  20:05:19

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quote:

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Originally posted by The KIDD

Well Mike I AM gonna demand a soundfile if a person rants on about something which I THINK needs to have proof or better description.Look how many ask for sound files from SB ..Thats gotta go for everyone!!!! Not just those your pissed at..Why wouldnt ya wanna share what you know on the banjo (Hell, this is a banjo forum isnt it.GEEEZ!)...Would you run for cover at a festival If I asked you to SHOW me that great lick you play on BIG MON?
If you were talkin to a group of beginners at a fest wouldnt you think they would wanna HEAR and SEE what your talking about?Do ya want people to know WHO you are as a picker..I treat being on here just like real life. So much BIG TALK on here continiously with no one wanting to disclose their "Playing side"..Those of us who DO share have a mutual respect for one another and have a support/bond that goes deeper than the self serving bunch who get on here daily tryin to prove how much they know. Yeah , if someone is talkin the talk, they'd better be willing to show they can walk the walk...Heck, Im offended when I see the guy at the fest talkin all the big talk of theory , who he's played with etc but wont break open the case...OH , too good to pick with us eh? Well sis on you pister...I dont get the people who INSTANTLY get offended when talk of actually PLAYING the banjo comes up. Boogles the mind UNLESS Ta DAAAA
They have something to hide

PS. Ron,I didnt see yourpost before I posted.

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careful mike, if you dont post a worthy soundfile kidd will threaten you like he did me. all i did was say earl was out of tune and he wanted to know where i lived. scary. he thinks you and richard dont know what you are talking about because your soundfiles arent as good as his. hogwash

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Edited by - stringbreaker on 10/06/2010 20:11:44

stringbreaker - Posted - 10/06/2010:  20:10:23

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gymbal31

quote:

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Originally posted by Gymbal31

quote:

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Originally posted by Gymbal31

Stringsucker, I'm still waiting for your reply. In your blog, you asked for an example of an Earl song with a melody. I gave you one, "American Made - World Played". Two weeks ago. you've posted here and on your blog several times since then, but you still haven't responded. This is another example of you picking and choosing what parts of posts you reply to and ignoring what you have no answer for.

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And I'm still waiting.

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And I am still waiting.

sigh.

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i asked for a song earl wrote that had more than a mediocre melody. i also asked for material from 1970 onward that banjo players today play. preferably something that demonstrates more than the licks he played in 1950. i got no response. more proof he stagnated early.

stringbreaker - Posted - 10/06/2010:  20:14:23

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i never said earl didnt play melody. he didn't play down the road or hot corn without playing the melody. i already knew that. i never said copying others licks was bad.
i said the material he wrote was mostly mediocre, repetitve and a bunch of licks thrown together. and he didnt invent the stuff everyone gives him credit for.

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Edited by - stringbreaker on 10/06/2010 20:16:08

BanjoMikeR - Posted - 10/06/2010:  20:17:48

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If it wasn't for Earl Scruggs, Stringbreaker wouldn't even know what bluegrass banjo was (or the rest of us for that matter)..I sure hope Earl doesn't catch wind of this bull$hit. Any banjo player worth his salt already knows the score... and a hats off to Ron and others that can raise a family and pay a mortage with a fivestring.
BanjoMikeR.

Ron Stewart - Posted - 10/06/2010:  20:25:01

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You know folks, here's what is happening. This Stringwrecker cat is just trying to see who all he can get up in the air about this, and he's done a pretty good job of it. He obviously is just someone sitiing back laughing at everyone because of this. He now claims all he said was Earl played out of tune and everyone is out to kill him. I'm pretty sure in my rounds I bet I can find out the person/person(s) who started this, and when I do, I'll be sure to post it here, the blog, bluegrass rules, bluegrass-L and anywhere I can! Lot's of people play "jokes" or whatever you want to call it on blogs, this guy is no different. Too many clues in his responses that he is either being coached or is clueless and just stirring. How about we all, and I mean all, never, ever respond to a post from him?

Banjophobic - Posted - 10/06/2010:  20:33:29

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Stewart

You know folks, here's what is happening. This Stringwrecker cat is just trying to see who all he can get up in the air about this, and he's done a pretty good job of it. He obviously is just someone sitiing back laughing at everyone because of this. He now claims all he said was Earl played out of tune and everyone is out to kill him. I'm pretty sure in my rounds I bet I can find out the person/person(s) who started this, and when I do, I'll be sure to post it here, the blog, bluegrass rules, bluegrass-L and anywhere I can! Lot's of people play "jokes" or whatever you want to call it on blogs, this guy is no different. Too many clues in his responses that he is either being coached or is clueless and just stirring. How about we all, and I mean all, never, ever respond to a post from him?

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Yeah Ron, I've already firgured out who hes in cahoots with and hes another troller. Ive already decided to ignore anything he posts and to never respond to him. So, count me in on you 'all' list.

The KIDD - Posted - 10/06/2010:  20:46:59

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Just for the record, and the archives CAN be checked as i do all the time, I never threatened SB in any way shape or form. Anyone who's been here since 04 knows me and what Im about and can check my past posting history. Yeah, I told him to post some sound files and I did say its prolly a good thing your not listing where your from. Never a direct threat or an PM to him.
KIDD

Matthew Wyatt - Posted - 10/07/2010:  06:31:07

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Amen on letting this post fade out. We all have better things to be doing like playing the banjo!

Gymbal31 - Posted - 10/07/2010:  08:17:57

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I used to be involved in a amateur filmmakers message board. There were several bona fide pro's who posted there along with a few who worked in the business. All were happy to help, give advice, etc.

But there came a point when the pro's were told how wrong they were by anonymous posters with no real world experience.

I'd hate to see the immature idiocy of someone like stringfaker chase away the generous pro's that post here.

Banjophobic - Posted - 10/07/2010:  09:24:05

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Yeah, I think this ones pretty much done. Im ok if a mod decided to lock the topic.