72chevy - Posted - 10/16/2009:  11:08:34

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I would be curious which you would prefer.

When we started making the maple Sierra banjos about a year ago we make the first ones with black binding because it had continuity with the neck's ebony fingerboard and the black on the resonator.
Recently, within the last month, we changed to white binding on the maple Sierra banjos to stay in keeping with the model as shown in the catalog.
Which would you prefer? Black binding or White binding on the resonator of maple Sierra banjos?
We can do either. But at this point all the new ones being made now are being made with white.


Just my .02 - I think the black binding looks better only because the neck is not bound at all. Plus the front edge of the reso is black already and this sticks out more on the deerings to begin with. The white binding just throws it off (on this model only) for me.

- Tommy

dustinTN - Posted - 10/16/2009:  14:30:06

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Janet,
I'm new around here and totally new to banjo pickin' in general. I just wanted to say that it's great you are on here soliciting advice and making yourself available. It says a lot about your company. It is also a wise business decision (contrary to the opinion of too many American businesses, doing the right thing and doing what's good for business usually dovetail quite nicely.) I am a filmmaker by trade, and I have become an absolute loyalist to the camera companies who take the time to hang out on message boards, listen to advice, and help with problems.

I recently purchased a used banjo (a Gold Tone) and seeing you on here already gives me a mild case of buyer's remorse. Don't get me wrong, I like the instrument a lot and look forward to learning, but this just reinforces that my next purchase will be with your company, period. In fact, what I really want is a Goodtime 2 Special Classic and I might just consider selling my Gold Tone within the next year to make that happen. As for that model, I do think adding fret marks on the side of the neck would be a very welcome addition.

Anyhow, keep up the great work!

Hedge Hog - Posted - 10/16/2009:  15:02:20

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Janet D - I find Deerings stand on side markers to be interesting and quite frankly a bit disapointing. Most instruments, even the cheapest ones out there have marker spots. Deering might not like doin'em, but to be in the stringed instrument market it seems necessary to follow the crowd on this one. Seems like a sound business decission to me.

MJM
___________________________________________________________________________
I love the snap of a finger pick comming off a string.

- open the window and let the angels in ............

- Side burns a little long,
- A Redman hat and a country song on AM radio,
- In a pickup truck behind the cows
- Drivin' them to pasture, how I miss it so
- Seated to the right hand of a hard workin' man
- Our backs against the border everyday.........
Farm of yesterday, the gibson Brothers

DeanT - Posted - 10/16/2009:  15:21:39

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Dustin, there's Goodtime II's and Goodtime "Specials" but not Goodtime II Specials I say that, because I've even seen retailers advertise "Goodtime II Specials" when there is no such model (unless they just came out with one!). Goodtime II models have no tone ring, Goodtime Special models have a steel tone ring.

Janet, I have to agree with the side dots. They are extreamly important, and not everyone is a do-it-yourselfer. In fact, after the first several months of learning, I think the side dots are even more important than the fretboard dots... as that's what players will use when transferring to standing up, jamming, and playing in a band. Maybe it's just me personally, but the fretboard markers were good for the first 3 or 4 months, where as the side dots are what I'll be using for the rest of my life. I put my own on my Goodtime with a small drill bit for indentations, and then filled with paint.

Dean

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Edited by - DeanT on 10/16/2009 15:24:19

granderman - Posted - 10/17/2009:  03:43:01

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Janet , thanks for all you do for banjo , I thanked you several times at the IBMA for bringing the Krugers in to show case . The trip to Nashville would be worth it just to see them . In talking with Uwe a bout there Merlefest shows I thanked him for openly being appreciative of being an American citizen . As you know Uwe and jens are spiritual people , Uwe made a profound statement to me when we talking about America, he said "yes my friend we are very proud to be welcomed in your country and the one thing I know is that being an American is a participation sport ". So let me participate , i own several Stellings , Yates , OME , Silvio Fretti Scorpion ,RB18 parts USA banjo ,and a Bishline custom . I enjoy each banjo . I have played several of yours and i know they are fine banjos and maybe one day the Jens model will speak to me and she will come home to roost. I have also looked at the Prucha banjos and they are nice as well . The recording king experience i have had has not been good and let me tell you why. My first experience came when my Scorpion came in without an arm rest , Silvio was the ever gracious italian Stallion and purchased an RK arm rest to complete the banjo . I was skilled enough to install it . I was shocked at how flimsy it was. In a discussion with another banjo builder he explained he tried but found them not to match the quality and stopped using them. I have gone by the booth and looked at and played i was unimpressed IMO . Now i know i don't know squat because i am not a luthier , like GRich or Scott Z however i do know enough that the sound doesn't do it for me. I also know GRich has bone to pick with Gibson and obviously t let a very talent luthier get away , who had some terrific ideas in building instruments .

Now as a manufacturer myself let me tell you where we have gone wrong , labor and management have not work together to bring quality and affordability to the market place and you will do this or you will not be here. Now it is not just musical instruments it is , eye glasses ,Dental restoration , plumbing fixtures , hand tools clothes and on and on. The American worker has been arrogant , management has been arrogant and capitol has demanded to big of the slice of the pie. if you want Deering banjo as i want my beloved NuCraft Dental Arts Inc to survive you will find a way to produce a comparable model it can even be a little more expensive or you can kiss that part of the market good bye. In my instance this worked so well we are actually profitable and my american workers understand the goliath they are up against .

Step one develop an understanding with your team that this model must meet Deering standards step two , fully inform your customers that china is not our friend and each purchase feeds your enemy. They have poisioned our children, our pets and our homes " class action Law suit in Fla for toxic sheet rock'. They do not have peace and tranquility in mind for the good ole USA . Shame on us as workers for failing to compete , shame on us a society for not understanding the value of capitol ,labor , management ,education and government for not working together to keep our manufacturing base in this country.

So Janet that is my view of Deering banjos you build nice ones, Jens says the nicest in the world. As i talk to my friends Geoff , Rob , Tanya , and Gary all who build, they are all slow ! Gary by the way tried the USA manufacturing and the people let him down and is now back in china with a more consistent product.

so i hope you succeed in your journey because i know you love banjos , we as a country have a monumental challenge as well as over 6 million people unemployed sometimes humble pie is good.

China is not our Friend ! there you go Uwe i am participating !

"for those of you who think you hold the cards , I send to you my kind regards
For those of you who love and care I'll see you down the road somewhere "
SteelDrivers

4everBlue.net nucraftdental.com
aloha T

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/17/2009:  07:49:03

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I own an 03 Maple Blossom custom and a Goodtime standard. From my point of view the MB is as good as most standard Gibson's and better than some. The Goodtime is just excellent value for money all round and tonally head and shoulders above its price competitors.

Dear Country Jack, Thanks.

Deerings imminent problems [FMPOV] are going to be with the quality and price of chinese imports, specifically the Recording King and Goldstar banjos. They are very good instruments for the money, not better, but cheaper and that matters right now.

What does FMPOV mean?

What needles me [and perhaps others] is when i see additions to the Deering line which are fundamentally only cosmetic, the huge variety of Goodtime options has now [IMVHO] priced you out of that starter market and my feeling is you need to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath-water, the Goodtime is you bread and butter banjo, its many players first banjo and it needs to be cheap. Close to $1000 for any Goodtime is just nuts.

What does IMVOH mean?

Secondly unlike several posters here i really dislike the new inlays on the Sierra, this is clearly subjective and down to taste, but to my mind fiddling around with inlays is not going to be a deal clincher. Greg said it best, the Sierra is the best banjo for the money around, keep it affordable and keep it simple. Ever seen a badly fitted go-faster-body-kit on a SUV? well its that kind of look the new Sierra has, unnecessary.

If fancy looks was not a deal clincher for novice buyers many of the Asian banjos would have no standing in the market at all.

With that all said and done i really appreciate that you come on the HO and solicit public opinion on your products, it sends a message to us [your clients] that you both care and are listening, something i get the impression that Gibson could do with learning right now.

Good point. I enjoy your input. Please do tell me what those anachronims mean as I will respond when I understand.

Many thanks for the opportunity to air my thoughts on your otherwise most excellent company and i will continue to buy Deering.

You are most welcome and I will continue to come in over coffee when I am not traveling to shows or festivals.

Incidentally, i'd like to take this opportunity to pass on to you how good a service Eagle Music [Deering UK] provide to the british player. Tim is an excellent ambassador for Deering banjos and arguably one of the most upright men in the English banjo fraternity.

Yes, I know Tim and he is quite a good player too! Steve Noon, the owner of Eagle Music has become the top dealer in the world and gives great service to banjoists. It is worth a trip to Yorkshire, England to see his wonderful selection of Deering, Goodtime, Vega and Tenbrooks banjos. He sells many other brands as well.

dustinTN - Posted - 10/17/2009:  07:59:44

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FMPOV= From my point of view
IMVHO= In my very humble opinion. (I assume this is right)

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/17/2009:  08:48:51

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Thanks, Dustin, that makes sense.

Deerings imminent problems [FMPOV] are going to be with the quality and price of chinese imports, specifically the Recording King and Goldstar banjos. They are very good instruments for the money, not better, but cheaper and that matters right now.

Cheaper will always matter to people on limited budgets and that is just a fact of life. I've been there and I really do understand. There is nothing I can do about that. And there is nothing "wrong" with having cheaper options. Used banjos usually will enable people to get a high quality product for a cheaper price and still buy American.

What needles me [and perhaps others] is when i see additions to the Deering line which are fundamentally only cosmetic, the huge variety of Goodtime options has now [IMVHO] priced you out of that starter market and my feeling is you need to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath-water, the Goodtime is you bread and butter banjo, its many players first banjo and it needs to be cheap. Close to $1000 for any Goodtime is just nuts.

The added Goodtime Classic models that have been upgraded with dark brown stain, spikes, planetary tuners, white inlays, and at near $1000 include a tonering are not meant to be starter banjos. The original Goodtime blond openback and Goodtime 2 with resonator fill that place on the market.

I can see that the Goodtime name has become associated with Starter banjo. The Goodtime Classics are step up banjos that are in an affordable price range and with our new 3-ply maple rims made in our newly set up steaming and rolling area the sound of the new Classic Goodtimes is better than I can believe in that price range. It is almost scary how good they sound for the price. Find a new 2009 Goodtime Special Classic and tell me what you think. I'd be interested to hear evaluations of the sound of all the new models of Goodtimes we are making this year.

DeanT - Posted - 10/17/2009:  13:17:21

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quote:

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It is almost scary how good they sound for the price... Find a new 2009 Goodtime Special Classic and tell me what you think

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I have felt that way ever since I bought a used original gumby style Goodtime Special (resonator model). Immediately I wondered why they haven't become much more popular. If the new "Specials" sound even better, I hope one of our local stores gets one in, I'd like to try one. Just offering an opinion, but I have said on the forum over and over that the "Special" is best kept secret in the banjo world right now, for a powerfull sounding LIGHT banjo. It's drawback, and you mentioned it, is that it's become labled as a "starter" banjo and is too closely related to the non tone ringed Goodtime models. By the time someone has $1000 to spend, they are not looking for a "starter" anymore. Hopefully the new Classic series will help change that notion.

Speaking of the "Special"....I've been reading this forum for several years, and the two biggest requests that seem to go largely ignored, are lighter "real" bluegrass banjos with a metal tone ring, and wider fretboards. I read it week after week over and over and over. To get a good quality lighter banjo with a wider fretboard costs $,$$$ and often is a custom build, and you still end up compromising with a 9+ pound banjo with a wood tone ring. A 7 pound wide necked Deering bluegrass "Special" would sure make a lot of people happy.

Dean

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Edited by - DeanT on 10/17/2009 13:32:50

cockneybanjo - Posted - 10/18/2009:  01:29:41

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for what it's worth, I don't believe the Goodtime models will ever be competitive on price alone in the UK, because of various issues to do with shipping and taxes. I looked at one when I bought my first decent starter instrument ( as opposed to the second-hand Asian cheapo I started with ) and I had to conclude that it was just too much money, for what it was.

my ( occasional ) teacher plays Deerings professionally and rates them highly, but his idea of value and mine are necessarily defined rather differently.

'US made' doesn't carry the same cachet over here, for obvious reasons. Jeep, Harley Davidson and other US brands have much the same problems, of course; it doesn't help that they appear at times to be locked into a cycle of declining quality at increasing price. I've recently had a Jeep Cherokee ( Liberty, to Americans ) and I have to say, I was deeply disappointed with it and got rid of it after a few months. Some of the things you can read on the GB Harley Rider's Club website will fairly make you decide never, ever to buy a Harley.

so, what's the point of this? For a UK buyer, Ozark and Gold Tone in particular are beating the Good Time for price. If you have the budget for a Deering open back, you are also looking at limited run, or hand-made, instruments like Griffin and Prucha. So, Deerings appear to principally sell in UK, to bluegrass players who want something specific, know what it is, and are prepared to pay a premium for it.

maryzcox - Posted - 10/18/2009:  08:26:14

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Friday, it was damp and drizzly for a rehearsal for our niece's outdoor wedding, so I chose my Deering John Hartford for the rehearsal because it is lightweight and didn't know how far I may have to carry a banjo to get to a dry spot.
Also it has a plastic head--which is good for unpreditable weather and it needed to be loud because we were playing totally acoustic right there at the front.

Then it suddenly dropped cold on Saturday--so I took the John Hartford again and I am so glad I did. I love those Deering tuners and gears--here is an outdoor situation with a sudden drop in temperature--and I barely had to retune at all. And it stayed in tune all through the service.

I have a lot of really great banjos--but when I know I am going to be in difficult or unpredictable conditions--I almost always choose one of my Deerings because they stay in tune, easy to play and as clear as a bell.

Still loving my John Hartford,
Mary Z. Cox

maryzcox.com
If you suspect you need a new banjo--you do. Trust your musical instincts. If a banjo calls to you to buy it, don't fight destiny. It was meant to be. :)
banjoquest.blogspot.com

Field videos of banjoists, banjos, tunes, and banjos in locations you may or may not have seen or heard before :)

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/18/2009:  08:48:24

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Thanks, Mary. I appreciate your input.

Eddie Adcock said basically the same thing last night during his concert here in San Diego where he was performing with his Golden Era banjo that he has had for around 10 years.

It comes to what your needs are in buying a banjo - price or performance.

We do our best to make the best possible banjos with both needs in mind.

But, there is nothing we can do when other countries tax imports heavily and make the prices climb even higher with their VAT tax.

We have to charge enough to keep our doors open and maintain our own quality standards. Since in many countries the VAT tax is added into the price of a banjo and is not clearly added onto the price like it is in the USA with Sales Tax, citizens in other countries can assume we charged more than we did. They often don't realize it is their own countrys taxes that drove the prices up.

Greg ran into this on his tour in Australia. Even tools were so heavily taxed that a pair of pliers you can buy in the USA for $12 he saw in a tool store in Austraila, the same name brand for sale there for $39! It was not the USA makers price that drove the cost up.

cockneybanjo - Posted - 10/18/2009:  09:55:19

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one thing I do know from working in the oil industry, is that transatlantic shipping is very expensive compared to from the Far East, mainly because of the relatively low volume. So, it's not just taxes at the destination country, but they are a factor and the supplier has no control over them.

wildboar - Posted - 10/18/2009:  22:58:20

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Janet,

A couple questions: (1) Can I get a Sierra in an open-back version? (2) If so, how much less would it cost compared to the 'normal' Sierra? I'm thinking of the pop-off resonator version but I would never use the resonator anyway.

A suggestion: You should list the price of various custom options on your website... like pop-off resonator, tunneled fifth string, wood tone ring, etc.

I will admit that I have emailed Deering for info a couple times and received VERY prompt replies. Great job on that.

jemathieson - Posted - 10/19/2009:  02:05:39

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I recently researched the cost of importing a banjo privately into the UK. There are two taxes (they even tax the shipping) which put the price up by just over 40%. I understand that it is different for a business importing banjos.

country frank - Posted - 10/19/2009:  05:02:33

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Janet, many thanks for your prompt replies, it is indeed a pleasure to discuss your banjos directly with you and on such a public forum.

One thing i think that would make a significant difference to the Goodtime brand [and the perception of it as a starter instrument] would be the inclusion of a truss rod and/or a 'proper' fret board. I have read numerous posts about he Goodtime neck 'giving' a little more than a standard truss rod[ed] neck [asian or otherwise]. FMPOV [From My Point Of View] my Goodtime does feel slightly less stable when grasped firmly [and hammered hard] than even the cheapest of my asian collection [and i have a few].

Anyway, that aside i put new strings on my Maple Blossom over the weekend and took it out for a 4 hour blast, what a pleasure that banjo is. Many thanks Janet, i am proud to have your family name on my peghead..


Proud Union Man

Regards from London.

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Edited by - country frank on 10/19/2009 05:06:15

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/19/2009:  07:41:41

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Anyway, that aside i put new strings on my Maple Blossom over the weekend and took it out for a 4 hour blast, what a pleasure that banjo is. Many thanks Janet, i am proud to have your family name on my peghead..

Thank you. I'm glad you are enjoying playing your Maple Blossom.

Having make more than 25,000 Goodtime banjos over the past 14 years, we have found that Greg hit a home run on the design of these banjos. While the necks may not be as stiff as our Vegas and Deerings and Tenbrooks banjos, they perform very well and are stable and reliable for most purposes.

The theme for the Goodtime banjos is Relax and Enjoy the Sound.... While you can play them on stage, and many artists have, they are the perfect banjo to have by your easy chair because with one hand you can reach over and it jumps into your lap.

I'd be interested to hear how you compare the new 3-ply maple Goodtime banjos we are making now to the banjos in your collection.

PharmBoy - Posted - 10/19/2009:  07:47:07

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quote:

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Originally posted by jemathieson@talktalk.net



I recently researched the cost of importing a banjo privately into the UK. There are two taxes (they even tax the shipping) which put the price up by just over 40%. I understand that it is different for a business importing banjos.

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You Brits need to throw some tea into the nearest harbor. We can show you how it's done...;^))

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no growth in the Comfort zone, and no comfort in the Growth zone.

"The instrument proper to them is the Banjar, which they brought hither from Africa."
-Thomas Jefferson

( )======"===::}

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/19/2009:  07:59:39

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A couple questions: (1) Can I get a Sierra in an open-back version? (2) If so, how much less would it cost compared to the 'normal' Sierra? I'm thinking of the pop-off resonator version but I would never use the resonator anyway.

Yes, you can order any of our banjos in an openback version. The rule of thumb when looking at the cost of the openback is you save about 20% off the price of the instrument.

A suggestion: You should list the price of various custom options on your website... like pop-off resonator, tunneled fifth string, wood tone ring, etc.

Excellent suggestion. I will have our website I/T man, Ethan, do that pronto.

I will admit that I have emailed Deering for info a couple times and received VERY prompt replies. Great job on that.

Thanks. We do our best to keep our focus on customer service. The whole development of our banjo line came from responding to customer requests. Now with over 70 models when you count up all the styles of banjos we make it can get a bit overwhelming.

We make many of our 5-string models also in Left Handed, plus: 4-string Tenor 17 fret Irish style, Tenor 19 fret Dixieland or Traditional Jazz style, and even Plectrum style.

Then on some models we also make 6-string tuned like a guitar, and Long Neck like Pete Seeger and the Kingston Trio play, and now the new Parlor Goodtime banjos that are 15 fret short 5-string banjos for smaller people.

Thank goodness we decided to just make banjos so our team has one focus. They only have to know banjos and how to build them correctly as banjo specialists. I can't imagine the problems the two Chinese factories have where they make the banjos mixed in with the guitars, mandolins, dobros etc all on the same production line. It must drive their workers crazy.

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/19/2009:  08:03:26

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Speaking of the "Special"....I've been reading this forum for several years, and the two biggest requests that seem to go largely ignored, are lighter "real" bluegrass banjos with a metal tone ring, and wider fretboards. I read it week after week over and over and over. To get a good quality lighter banjo with a wider fretboard costs $,$$$ and often is a custom build, and you still end up compromising with a 9+ pound banjo with a wood tone ring. A 7 pound wide necked Deering bluegrass "Special" would sure make a lot of people happy.

Dean,

How much wider for the fretboard" What measurement at the nut and what measurement at the 22 fret?

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/19/2009:  08:13:50

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No questions here, just positive comments! I have always held Deering in very high regard; infact the highest concerning 5-string resonator banjos. I own several Deerings, and currently one very special banjo is being constructed by you (this is my real name). Carolina does an incredible job, and she handles my requests very well. I must also express my excitement for the new violin maple rims, and the redesigned Sierra and Deluxe (they are perfect)! I would say, to stay the way you as a company have always been, trying to improve and tweak further, striving for perfection and the finest sounding, playing and looking banjos.

Thanks, Viktor. I'm excited to hear how you like your new Deering when you get it. I actually don't recall ever being as pleased and excited about the banjos we are sending out as I am this year. The strides forward we have made are enabling us to make some of the most incredible banjos I have ever dreamed of and I'm glad you will have one coming to you soon.


One question I do have is that, I own a MB6 and although the tone is great and so is playability it does resonate too much (with or without resonator) and weighs rather heavy. It might be an idea to try a bigger head and put in a wooden tone ring instead (fortunately I own a Hartford too). The amount of resonance it causes (it is a guitar-banjo after all, 6 strings is a lot for your typical banjo construction) is its only flaw.

Have you put on lighter strings, more like the weight of banjo strings? What works best are 009 electric guitar strings, or something in that ball park.

A common problem with people who normally play guitar is to "over play" the 6-string banjo. A guitar takes a much heavier touch to bring the tone out of it. When you switch over to playing your banjo play it with a lighter touch and you will find it a much more pleasureable instrument to play. You can relax and pick it lightly and get all the sound you want from it with greater ease than when you play a guitar.

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/19/2009:  08:23:41

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Thank you very much for doing this on the hangout. I have a Calico. I love everything about it - the sound, the ease of play, thin neck, and especially the beauty. My Calico is the light tiger maple - which has the beautiful 3D look in the maple grain. I have seen some darker versions that appear to be a stained version? Is this an option? Did you stop making the lighter version? Thanks again.

Rick, Thanks. Yes, we used to make the Calico banjos in a blond finish, no stain. But as the years progressed we had trouble finding maple that did not have color streaks in it. While most American's liked the color streaks as the beauty of nature, some people overseas, particularly in Japan, felt that color in a blond neck was a flaw. So, as the years went on more and more of our wood had color in it and we decided to stain the Calico banjos with the honey maple we use today. As soon as we began staining them the sales went up because more people like the new color.

We did not stop making blond Calico banjos but we made this a custom option with an up charge because we have to search for wood with pure blond color. Often we think we have a good blank for a blond banjo and when we shape the neck there are mineral streaks of color so that neck cannot be blond after all. If a customer requests a blond Calico and specifies that color streaks are okay then there will be no up charge.

Now when we find a perfectly blond neck we hold onto it for when someone orders a blond banjo because these are certainly rare.

DeanT - Posted - 10/19/2009:  13:39:03

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quote:

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How much wider for the fretboard" What measurement at the nut and what measurement at the 22 fret?

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I would go at least 1 3/8" at the nut and 2" at the 22 fret. This would also give people breathing room to use crow and wider spaced bridges. A neck option like this could become a big hit. Older pickers with stiff sore joints, pickers with large hands, fat fingers, and frustrated beginners would love you for it.

Dean

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/20/2009:  07:38:42

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Thanks. Dean. I'll see what we can do.

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/20/2009:  07:51:38

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I'm new around here and totally new to banjo pickin' in general. I just wanted to say that it's great you are on here soliciting advice and making yourself available. It says a lot about your company.

Greg and I, being banjo players ourselves, really enjoy the people who share this common interest. We are genuinely interested in what is needed and wanted.

Over the past several years after moving into a larger building and tripling in size in three years after the movie "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" came out we became rather wrapped up in managing that growth and all the employee challenges that went with it. We were up to nearly 60 people at one time.

Now it is great to be able to get back to basics. We are trimmed to all the best skilled craftemen and have the best crew we have ever had. And it is especially rewarding because now we can produce the finest banjos we have ever dreamed of building.

Grinnin&Pickin - Posted - 10/20/2009:  07:52:12

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quote:

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Originally posted by 1four5

I would go at least 1 3/8" at the nut and 2" at the 22 fret. This would also give people breathing room to use crow and wider spaced bridges. A neck option like this could become a big hit. Older pickers with stiff sore joints, pickers with large hands, fat fingers, and frustrated beginners would love you for it.

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I fit into ALL of Dean's catagories above...

kyblugrass - Posted - 10/20/2009:  09:12:57

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quote:

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Originally posted by 1four5

quote:

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How much wider for the fretboard" What measurement at the nut and what measurement at the 22 fret?

---

I would go at least 1 3/8" at the nut and 2" at the 22 fret. This would also give people breathing room to use crow and wider spaced bridges. A neck option like this could become a big hit. Older pickers with stiff sore joints, pickers with large hands, fat fingers, and frustrated beginners would love you for it.

Dean

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quote:

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Originally posted by Janet Deering

Thanks. Dean. I'll see what we can do.

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I am very interested in seeing what can be accomplished. I know one of the other makers is offering a wide neck option. It would be great to see Deering offer this as well. If I can get the pennies together, I would much perfer buying American Made!

Scott
“You Can Hang a Sign on a Pig Saying It's a Horse...But It’s Still Just a Pig.”

wildboar - Posted - 10/20/2009:  13:37:14

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On the wide neck topic... I have long hands and fingers and I think a wider-spaced bridge might help my right-hand mechanics because my fingers wouldn't be so curled up... or maybe I just need to practice more ;-)

DeanT - Posted - 10/20/2009:  17:21:14

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Daniel, I'm using 2" string spacing on my Calico and Goodtime, and the difference for my right hand mechanics isn't just a little better... it's so phenonimal, I've given all my old bridges away, I'll never go back. Ever. But my outer strings ride deathly close to the edge of the neck. A wider neck would sure make it comfortable. Here's a thread on my Calico
banjohangout.org/forum/topic.a...ID=157495

Dean

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Edited by - DeanT on 10/20/2009 17:23:49

bosborne - Posted - 10/20/2009:  18:48:48

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quote:

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Originally posted by Janet Deering


I will make time to answer questions as often as I can, possibly each morning for those who would like to contact me here.

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Janet, nice to have you back. I've heard different things about the Swiss tone ring and the latest Deering tone ring regarding sustain. Which one gives you more? or is there little difference?

Brian O.

wildboar - Posted - 10/20/2009:  19:55:54

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Dean,

Thanks for the link. You have my interest peaked now. I've been shopping for a Sierra... do you know if the neck profile (width-wise) is similar to your Calico? I'd like to know how wide I could get the bridge spacing on the Sierra. Janet would probably be able to answer that as well.

Now... it's time to get out the shoebox full of unused banjo parts and start re-working an old bridge.

GeeDubya - Posted - 10/20/2009:  22:15:48

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After 30 years of playing guitar, I recently got serious about getting a banjo. I knew nothing about them other than, being left handed, I couldn't just re-string a right handed 5 string (as I have done countless times over the years with guitars, mandolins, ukes & dobs). What I did know was that I wanted an entry level banjo from a reputable manufacturer. This discarded most cheap made in China instruments. After doing my research it was obvious that a Goodtime open back was the choice for me. Finding a lefty was the next obstacle. I eventually sourced one in a shop in Sydney and two days later, to my delight, it arrived by courier. I tuned it up and off I went.....I love it, the people I play music with love it. I play it every day.

I play quality Australian made guitars (Maton & Cole Clark) and I feel like I'm part of a family when I play them. When I stumbled on this forum, I knew I'd made the right choice.....I've joined a new family. Thanks

Gavin

...oh yeh...I did use a permanent marker on the neck for the frets....no big deal...been doing that for years...nailpolish also works well

"music makes life better"

DeanT - Posted - 10/21/2009:  02:38:07

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quote:

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I've been shopping for a Sierra... do you know if the neck profile (width-wise) is similar to your Calico?

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Janet can correct me if I'm worng. I've owned a Sierra, and I'm pretty sure that the fretboard width is identical.

Dean

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/21/2009:  07:04:10

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Yes, our standard neck width is 1 1/4" but often when we bind the necks the binding makes it a bit wider. There is some variation in the finished product depending on how Don sands the necks.

We have made wider necks for customers over the years. I'll check today on what we can do on various models on a more routine basis.

The Terry Baucom model has a standard neck width but Terry had us cut the bridge for his model with a wider spacing so the strings ride closer to the edge of the fingerboard and it works just fine for people who want a wider spacing at the bridge.

I'll look into this today and let you know more tomorrow.

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/21/2009:  07:19:07

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Janet, nice to have you back. I've heard different things about the Swiss tone ring and the latest Deering tone ring regarding sustain. Which one gives you more? or is there little difference?

Brian, Thanks. The Tenbrooks tonering has a bit less sustain than the '06 tonering. The difference is most easily percieved when playing a slow song.

One way to test the sustain is you pluck two of the strings together and count while you listen to how long the note sounds.

For players that play really fast bluegrass as their mainstay and don't have the need for the note to carry but really need a short sustain so the next note is distinct the Tenbrooks is a much better choice.

For most players who play both slow and fast the '06 is appropriate as the note carries longer and it sounds great with slower songs.

The Tenbrooks has an amazing quality as it can be heard so clearly while blending pleasantly with the other instruments. If we had been making those banjos back in the seventies when we started there would be less cruel banjo jokes today.

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/21/2009:  07:23:43

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After doing my research it was obvious that a Goodtime open back was the choice for me. Finding a lefty was the next obstacle. I eventually sourced one in a shop in Sydney and two days later, to my delight, it arrived by courier. I tuned it up and off I went.....I love it, the people I play music with love it. I play it every day.

I play quality Australian made guitars (Maton & Cole Clark) and I feel like I'm part of a family when I play them. When I stumbled on this forum, I knew I'd made the right choice.....I've joined a new family. Thanks

Gavin, Wonderful! Welcome to the family. We are glad to have you.

Janet

Bob Murphy - Posted - 10/21/2009:  08:23:59

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Hi Janet,

This question relates to the Tenbrooks vs 06 tone ring. How does each perform when using a microphone on stage vs in a jam session. Is there an advantage to one over the other?

I also have a question regarding serial numbers. My Legacy is number 0610105 0115.
I assume that it was made in June of 2005. Does the number 101 mean that it was the 101st banjo made that year, or the 101st Legacy made, either that year or in total production? The number 0115 is the number stamped on the peghead. How is that number generated?

Thanks for taking our questions!

Bob

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Edited by - Bob Murphy on 10/22/2009 06:59:04

Dr.Ken - Posted - 10/22/2009:  08:01:20

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Hi Janet,

I am a happy, proud owner of a Deering Calico, since 2006. Everytime I get a chance to play a different banjo, it just reminds me again how happy I am with my Calico! (In fact, when I lived in India, I would venture to say I was probably one of the ONLY Deering Calico owners in India! Or actually perhaps one of the only banjo owners in India!). I got a chance to meet the banjo-pro Ned Luberecki a few weeks ago in Germany who was playing a Tenbrooks -- maybe (just maybe) that would be the only banjo I'd consider besides my Calico, but to tell you the truth I think I even prefer the Calico to that.

Anyway, one question: my fifth string tuner falls out when I change the strings. But when strung-up, it stays in just great. Do you think there is any need for me to glue in the tuner, or can I just continue to live with it like that?

Thanks again!

Best wishes,

Ken

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/22/2009:  08:26:31

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You have it right on the serial number so far.

The first two letters are the month it was assembled, and the last two of the first grouping are the year. The middle numbers 101 on the Tenbrooks line are the total number of Tenbrooks banjos we had made to that date, so this includes the Legacy and Saratoga Stars and Jens Kruger models.

On the regular Deering models we have always had the center numbers being the number of that model we have made to date. In 2008 we separated the serial numbers of the Tenbrooks banjos into the # of that model made to date so the new numbering of the Saratoga Star, Legacy and Jens Kruger model has been revised since yours was made.

You are right, the peghead number is the same number that follows the first part of the serial number after the dash. That number is generated when we are making necks and it has also changed over the years. It began many years ago, back in the '80s as a result of the theft of a Calico from our local dealer, the New Expression Music. Vickie Cottle owned that store at the time and is a very close friend. Their store was located in an old house and they had a repair man in one room, the Main living room was a showroom and the bedrooms were teaching studios. When everyone was either teaching or in another part of the house someone came in and took the Calico off the wall and walked out with it. It was then brought back in to their repairman (who recognized it) for spikes a few weeks later and they could not prove it was the same banjo because at that time the only serial number was located inside the resonator and they had not written it down. We also had not written where the banjo had gone in our serial number log book. So, while we knew we built the Calico and the date, we could not tell them which Calico they had either.

Learning from that lesson we began serial numbering the necks on the back of the peghead so it was easy to record for everyone involved. We also began the credit card style plastic gold cards that we provide to new Deering, Vega and Tenbrooks owners with their name embossed along with their full serial number, model, and purchase date. We send these out to new Deering owners who have sent in their warranty card twice a year. This way, if their banjo is stolen, they always have proof that it is theirs.

We also began writing into our serial number book where each banjo was shipped so we could track who got it. So we did everything in our power to make sure this type of thing did not happen again. All these records have been very useful over the years since.

So the peghead number began somewhere around the late 80's and that number is sequential counting the number of the upper line necks we make. (We do not serial number Goodtime banjos.) We have made so many that when we passed 9999 in 2002 we didn't want to add more digits on the peghead so we started with the alphabet and it changed to A001 and now we have gone through the alphabet to N. So right now the neck numbers we are building start with N.


This question relates to the Tenbrooks vs 06 tone ring. How does each perform when using a microphone on stage vs in a jam session. Is there an advantage to one over the other?

I can't honestly answer that because I have not experienced all the various circumstances with comparisons in mind. Maybe someone who owns a Tenbrooks can better answer that one.

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/22/2009:  08:36:09

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Anyway, one question: my fifth string tuner falls out when I change the strings. But when strung-up, it stays in just great. Do you think there is any need for me to glue in the tuner, or can I just continue to live with it like that?

Ken, You can put a drop of the thick super glue onto the outside of the splines of the tuner and put it back in and this will hold it. We use a drop of Super Jet which is the thicker of the super glues. All it takes is a drop. Don't over do it.

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/22/2009:  09:23:28

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I would go at least 1 3/8" at the nut and 2" at the 22 fret. This would also give people breathing room to use crow and wider spaced bridges. A neck option like this could become a big hit. Older pickers with stiff sore joints, pickers with large hands, fat fingers, and frustrated beginners would love you for it.

Dean, So, essentially you are asking for a neck width that is 1/8" wider than what we currently are making. We can do it. If you can get 48 customers to all order wide fingerboard Goodtime banjos we will tool up to make them. If there is enough customers who want to buy it, we are happy to put the time into making it happen.

What we do now is standardly 1 1/4 at the nut and 1 7/8" at the 22 fret.

We have what we call the Bela Fleck neck shape that can be ordered only on a Tenbrooks banjo that is 1 15/16" at the nut and 2 1/32" at the 22 fret. So this is even wider than what you are suggesting. Bela has his string spacing on the bridge from the 1st to 5th string is 1 13/16"

While Terry Baucom likes a wider string spacing on the bridge, he wanted our standard neck width, and we are cutting the bridge spacing on the Terry Baucom model 1 7/8" wide from the 1st to 5th string. We will add Deering bridges with this wider spacing to our new catalog that will be going to print shortly and make these available to everyone who wants one in the 5/8", 3/4" or 11/16" heights.

I talked with Greg about the neck width and he has huge hands with large fingers and he said he has no problem playing with the neck size at 1 1/4". He said that some guitars he has played are not as wide as 1 3/8".

Greg pointed out that the problem many people experience with a neck like ours feeling to slender at the nut is a matter of their playing technique. It is often caused by letting the neck rest in their hand instead of placing their thumb in the center of the back of the neck when they are fingering the fretboard. The problem can be alleviated with different hand technique. This hand technique allows a player much greater flexibility all over the neck, and this is why Jens Kruger originally recommended a V shaped neck, so the thumb can ride along the center of the back of the neck, freeing up your fingers to reach over and note the strings properly to create a clear note on every fret.

wildboar - Posted - 10/22/2009:  11:01:50

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JD: "We have what we call the Bela Fleck neck shape that can be ordered only on a Tenbrooks banjo that is 1 15/16" at the nut and 2 1/32" at the 22 fret."

Me: I never knew this. This is another option which should be listed on the website.

JD: "and we are cutting the bridge spacing on the Terry Baucom model 1 7/8" wide from the 1st to 5th string".

Me: This is good news. This should be listed on the website as well. Little bits of info like this can sway peoples decisions when making purchases.

DeanT - Posted - 10/22/2009:  14:55:50

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quote:

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I talked with Greg about the neck width and he has huge hands with large fingers and he said he has no problem playing with the neck size at 1 1/4". He said that some guitars he has played are not as wide as 1 3/8".

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Greg's answer is very much what the standard answer is when the wide neck subject comes up on the hangout. Practice and technique. However, I have a different viewpoint. I can play the slender/narrow necks just fine, and have been. In fact I've complained about narrow guitar necks for 30 years, but that has never stopped me from playing them. Banjos seem even worse, but it certianly has not stopped me from playing them.

But, I could drive my car just fine with the seat too far forward and the steering wheel too high as well. But it wouldn't be as comfortable, fun, or enjoyable.

I recently had an after market neck made, and it's 1 1/2" at the nut, 2 1/8" at the 22nd fret and I use 2" wide string spacing on the bridge. I would compare it to putting the seat back on your car, the steering wheel down, setting cruze, and just enjoying the ride, totally relaxed, comfortable, and set free and unconstrained. I can play a standard neck just fine... but I can play a wider neck much more cleanly and comfortably and enjoyably.
I don't have fat fingers either. In fact, my fingers are long and very skinny. But my joints are not what they used to be, and it's harder to scrunch, twist, bend and plant than it used to be also. So my short response to the "I know someone with stree stump fingers that can play a standard neck just fine" is "why if you don't have to?"

I hope enough people see your response and order a wide necked Deering. (I'm going to start another thread) I'd love one, but I certianly can't afford a whole nother banjo. I've compensated the spacing on my Deerings and have put too much into my beloved Goodtime now, especially with stainless steel frets, to EVER part with it. Unless of course, Deering would make after market parts accessable to do-it-yourselfers... then I would get very interested!

The purpose of my request for a wider neck came more from the perspective of reading other's requests (and frustrations) over the years, and my own successful experiences. Custom builders do it, Nechville and Stealth are doing it I believe, and then just last year. Gold Tone starting offering a wide necked option, so it's obvious there is a demand and makers are starting to notice.

Thanks again Janet for coming to the BHO and reading our thoughts and opinions!

Dean

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Edited by - DeanT on 10/22/2009 16:05:08

wildboar - Posted - 10/22/2009:  16:30:52

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We will add Deering bridges with this wider spacing to our new catalog that will be going to print shortly and make these available to everyone who wants one in the 5/8", 3/4" or 11/16" heights.

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Janet, I'd love one of the 'Baucom' bridges... can I buy these now, or is there a release date upcoming? How much does it cost, and... (tension rises)... how much does it cost to ship to Ohio? The shipping is sometimes a killer on very small items.

-dk

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/23/2009:  07:18:27

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JD: "and we are cutting the bridge spacing on the Terry Baucom model 1 7/8" wide from the 1st to 5th string".

Me: This is good news. This should be listed on the website as well. Little bits of info like this can sway peoples decisions when making purchases.

Yes, Thanks for mentioning that. We are working on a new catalog now and I will make sure we note it in the catalog. This discussion is really helping me to see where we offer services and options and never tell anyone clearly in our literature or website what is available.

We do so much it's hard for even me to keep up with it all. This new catalog is going to be 88 pages because we are doing our best to finally put everything we offer and better discriptions of it all into one catalog, and as we do that we are preparing to upgrade the website soon.

I think our main challenge has been that we don't let people know all the things we do and services we offer.

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/23/2009:  07:37:32

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I can play the slender/narrow necks just fine, and have been. In fact I've complained about narrow guitar necks for 30 years, but that has never stopped me from playing them. Banjos seem even worse, but it certianly has not stopped me from playing them.
But, I could drive my car just fine with the seat too far forward and the steering wheel too high as well. But it wouldn't be as comfortable, fun, or enjoyable.

Good point, Dean. If wide neck banjos are coming in from China as you indicated, then all the other brands buying their necks from the factory over there will suddenly offer that option too.

I will pass your viewpoint on comfort along to Greg. I happen to have a wide fingerboard Taylor guitar that I love to play and I don't have fat fingers. If there is enough interest he will be happy to make it happen sooner rather than later. I can't say how quickly this might come about because he has recently taken over the programming of all of our necks personally. So, it will be something he might add to his long list of things to do.

Since we recently upgraded the inlays on the Sierra and Deluxe, every other style we make in these models still has to be upgraded. We have the 5-string necks done, but we have the tenors, plectrums, left-handed fingerboards still to be programmed with the new inlay patterns. It all takes time.

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Edited by - Janet Deering on 10/23/2009 07:43:47

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/23/2009:  07:42:12

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Janet, I'd love one of the 'Baucom' bridges... can I buy these now, or is there a release date upcoming? How much does it cost, and... (tension rises)... how much does it cost to ship to Ohio? The shipping is sometimes a killer on very small items.

-dk, There is a release date coming up when we get the catalog done. If you want one of the new catalogs go onto our website and fill out a catalog request there and you will be one of the first people to get the new catalog when we start mailing them.

Viktor Velthuijs - Posted - 10/24/2009:  16:44:35

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Thank you for your replies Janet, and also, thank you for your generosity! :-)

DeanT - Posted - 10/24/2009:  16:51:25

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I'll add my Thanks for your time and consideration! This is a great thread.

Dean