Grey Dog - Posted - 11/30/2010:  08:07:01

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The Vegas have truss rods, the Goodtimes do not.

I think that is a very significant difference....and probably not the only.

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Edited by - Grey Dog on 11/30/2010 08:07:27

satchel*jenkins - Posted - 11/30/2010:  08:28:28

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If anyone can explain to me the justification of $800-$1000 price hike between the goodtime and old tyme/little wonder I will not only be much appreciated but I'll close my chops and speak no more of this. Thank you.

Gomer - Posted - 11/30/2010:  08:40:32

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quote:

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Originally posted by satchel*jenkins

I'm the guy that tells it like I see it so please don't be offended if you can't handle the truth. I'm just using my right of freedom of speech to point out the obvious.

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Now when you can get Freedom of Speech and Deering Banjos into the same paragraph, that is , well, really something. We may have something in common. I have been thinking quite a bit lately about the Hartford along with Self Evident Truths adn the Natural Law, but I have to admit having been beaten to the punch.

Mullie - Posted - 11/30/2010:  08:48:37

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Satchel, I can only speak of Deering bluegrass models from experience. My main disagreement with you is that Deering produces a "subpar" quality banjo. Based on my experience over the years....the opposite is true. Deerings are extremely well-made with high quality materials. I cant't speak to your little wonder issues re: pricing other than the free market is the overriding decider.....

dpete210 - Posted - 11/30/2010:  09:35:21

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satchel*jenkins, when it comes to wanting a particular banjo, we have some choices regarding price, among them to buy used, new, custom made, or to pass on buying because of the price. If you are patient you may find a used model you wish for sale in the classifieds at a savings over the new price, but remember, there will be no warranty. Maybe you could post a "want to buy" ad in the classifieds for the model you are pursuing. You are on a futile mission calling Deering banjos "overpriced subpar quality banjos" and have likely offended the many many satisfied Deering banjo owners, to say nothing of the fine folks who work at Deering. Back up a page on this thread and you'll read that Janet Deering mentioned there have been 30,000 Goodtimes and 25,000 other Deering models sold. The number for sale in the classifieds is no way any kind of indication of the quality of the Deering banjos. There are many reasons why a banjo would be listed for sale and to try to equate quality with the number for sale on the BHO is way off base. if you are going to complain or call out Deering for the price they charge for their banjos, then you are going to have to call out most, if not all of the USA made quality instruments, such as Stelling, Nechville, Ome, Gibson, etc. to name a few. None of those makers give their banjos away. Yes, there are lower priced models and you are free to seek them out and buy what ever you wish.There are options available at lower prices from models made outside of the USA borders, but then realize they are lower priced because of the wages being paid to the workers. Even the smaller one person shops or those with several employees have to charge a price that allows them to pay their employees and stay in business. The Maple Blossom and Hartford banjos I own are wonderful sounding quality made banjos, so I have to disagree with your comment about subpar quality. Good luck in finding that banjo you seek. It is out there somewhere for a price you can live with.

Grinnin&Pickin - Posted - 11/30/2010:  09:35:51

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quote:

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Originally posted by satchel*jenkins

If anyone can explain to me the justification of $800-$1000 price hike between the goodtime and old tyme/little wonder I will not only be much appreciated but I'll close my chops and speak no more of this. Thank you.

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Satchel, you've made your point (numerous times) and it is quite obvious that nobody agrees with your opinion. Perhaps it is a good time to close the pie hole and move on....

Bill Rogers - Posted - 11/30/2010:  09:36:48

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The Little Wonder is distinctly different from the Goodtime, as you can see with a side-by-side comparison. Whether that justifies the price differential is another issue. I agree with mullie1 that Deering banjos are very well made.

satchel*jenkins - Posted - 11/30/2010:  09:41:12

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Mullie, I am hearing you and you make some fine points. I'm not saying these Vegas are terrible by any means, I want one! Ill pay the price they ask if it meets that price tag with quality components that other makers are putting on their mid-grade models. Just a little upsetting is all.

vsiddhartha - Posted - 11/30/2010:  10:31:11

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quote:

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Originally posted by Grinnin&Pickin
Satchel, you've made your point (numerous times) and it is quite obvious that nobody agrees with your opinion. Perhaps it is a good time to close the pie hole and move on....

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With all due respect, I request that you speak for yourself and refrain from speaking for the rest of us. There are other people reading this thread besides the group you belong to (those willing to defend their banjos and the Deering Company at all costs). The only banjo I own is a Deering. It does have a few quality issues and did cost more than the competition, but overall I’m happy with it. I realize that one reason a Deering costs more is because of their labor costs, and some people are willing to pay extra to support the company in that aspect. I also realize that higher labor costs or “Made in the USA” does NOT necessarily mean better quality (which some people on this thread seem to believe).

Satchel, I think it’s good that you’re providing a counterpoint to the general consensus on the thread, and thank you for doing it. Some people who are very emotionally invested in their brand choice will react poorly, but that should be expected. Also, you should realize that your right to free speech does not extend to privately-owned/sponsored internet forums…so tread carefully.

satchel*jenkins - Posted - 11/30/2010:  12:06:56

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????????????????????????

Grey Dog - Posted - 11/30/2010:  12:13:00

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quote:

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Originally posted by satchel*jenkins

????????????????????????

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Alright, here you go.
Spoonfed even:

One: truss rod in the Vega neck = more cost
Two: violin grade maple neck/rim on the Vega = more cost
Three: Vega has an actual fretboard of ebony = more cost
Four: More brackets on the Vega = more metal = more cost
Five: Armrest on the Vega = more metal = more cost
Six: I think the finishes are better feeling on the Vegas = ? cost

Anyone want to add to the list?

Grey Dog - Posted - 11/30/2010:  12:13:27

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Seven: Real tuners. Forgot the tuners! Drat!!

EggSalad - Posted - 11/30/2010:  13:22:36

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The Vega appears to be stained where the Goodtime is natural, and the vega also looks to have MOP inlays on the neck where the goodtime has some type of black inlay.

Gomer - Posted - 11/30/2010:  13:50:29

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The Goodtime says "Goodtime" on the peg head whereas the Vega does not.

snakeherd - Posted - 11/30/2010:  15:28:09

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Satch,
If the Goodtime and Vega are the same thing, buy yourself a Goodtime and save yourself $800.
Problem solved.

Janet Deering - Posted - 11/30/2010:  15:51:12

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Thank you all for your input. I've been out of town and have not seen the discussion for a week.

I'll add another difference to the comparison between the Goodtime and the Vega Little Wonder and that is we give a 6 year warranty on the Goodtime and no case and with the Vega Little Wonder we include a Hardshell Case, a Lifetime Warranty and Gold Card for proof of ownership.

Satchel seems to have come onto the Hang Out with an agenda here because he signed up in November and has done nothing but blast Deering in each and every post. It definately raises my eyebrows.

Any real customer who didn't like a banjo would simply choose another.

Gomer - Posted - 11/30/2010:  16:51:17

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and to top it off with a note from Brae Burns:

Ha! Whare ye gaun, ye crowlin ferlie?
Your impudence protects you sairly,
I canna say but ye strut rarely
Owre gauze and lace,
Tho' faith! I fear ye dine but sparely
On sic a place.

Ye ugly, creepin, blastit wonner,
Detested, shunn'd by saunt an' sinner,
How daur ye set your fit upon her --
Sae fine a lady!
Gae somewhere else and seek your dinner
On some poor body.

satchel*jenkins - Posted - 11/30/2010:  17:51:20

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Like I said in my previous posts, the added ebony fretboard, few extra hooks and mop dots, different peghead shape and the other differences some of you have mentioned don't add up to the extra $800 or more. I haven't called anyone names or told anyone to do unpleasant things. It's just my observation, sorry if the truth hurts.

Mullie - Posted - 11/30/2010:  19:17:44

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quote:

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Originally posted by Janet Deering

Thank you all for your input. I've been out of town and have not seen the discussion for a week.

I'll add another difference to the comparison between the Goodtime and the Vega Little Wonder and that is we give a 6 year warranty on the Goodtime and no case and with the Vega Little Wonder we include a Hardshell Case, a Lifetime Warranty and Gold Card for proof of ownership.

Satchel seems to have come onto the Hang Out with an agenda here because he signed up in November and has done nothing but blast Deering in each and every post. It definately raises my eyebrows.

Any real customer who didn't like a banjo would simply choose another.

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All good points. The only thing "subpar" around here is poor ol' Satchel's agenda. I almost think that he is a jealous competitor! Nahhhh........

Deaf David - Posted - 11/30/2010:  20:12:37

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Is "Deering Envy" an official diagnosis? Looks like it should be.

rubicon - Posted - 11/30/2010:  23:52:05

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Look at it this way Satchel you go vehicle shopping they have a base model for x amount of dollars . now all of the as you put it ( little extras ) do what ? Start jacking the price up pwr windows ac tilt cruise and so on , just like the banjo some features are standard on some models others increase the price , Or look at it this way order a pizza the large cheese is say 10.00 a deal right ? now lay on the goodies they aren't free but they sure make it taste better .

Gomer - Posted - 12/01/2010:  08:42:05

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A question for you Ms. Janet. I see on a Youtube that John Hartford's Hartford had a metal tone ring, True? Did he also use the extended fretboard?

vsiddhartha - Posted - 12/01/2010:  10:51:05

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quote:

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Originally posted by Deaf David

Is "Deering Envy" an official diagnosis? Looks like it should be.

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If I ever saw a pile-on…y’all should be ashamed. This isn’t a PRO-Deering thread; it’s a Deering discussion thread. Satchel had an opinion relevant to the thread, and just because he didn’t agree with the majority you guys are bullying him. Yes he has been repetitive to a fault, and yes he did make one unwarranted baseless comment against Deering, but overall he has been far less insulting than some of you.

As for questioning his “agenda”…you guys sound like a bunch of conspiracy theorists. I think it was Eisenhower who said “Never question a man’s motives…”. Besides, the potential backlash and the limited if any impact to a competitor’s business would make such a smear campaign a futile endeavor. Plus, the profile and history, though short, do not look like that of someone with an agenda to me.

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Edited by - vsiddhartha on 12/01/2010 10:51:44

Mullie - Posted - 12/01/2010:  12:14:45

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quote:

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Originally posted by vsiddhartha

quote:

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Originally posted by Deaf David

Is "Deering Envy" an official diagnosis? Looks like it should be.

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If I ever saw a pile-on…y’all should be ashamed...

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Aw, give it a rest pal. A poster entered a thread, posted, edited, removed, reposted multiple cute little remarks calling out Deering for producing a "subpar quality" banjo. A few posters that have actually played the banjos and have quite a bit of experience with most other manufacturers chimed in with our experiences and opinions as Deering producing quite the opposite....a high quality banjo. The "piling-on" you reference included several posters clarifying Satchel's misunderstanding of the differences between the banjos that he was comparing...yet he (and you) seemed to have conveniently missed that point. Odd that you have twice posted off-the-mark defenses of Satch considering the above. So yeah, satchmo appears to have an agenda and many people thing Deering makes a fine banjo. No piling on - just people sharing their experiences and calling it like they see it. The shame you speak of should be redirected to where it belongs. Happy picking.

Gomer - Posted - 12/01/2010:  12:23:06

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What really makes me stupid is that in Africa, there are kids not much older than my Hartford whose bellys are distended to the size of a basketball from chronic starvation; we got people getting killed over in the Middle east; and you know that as you read this, there is a father somewhere, hiding next to a building looking across the street wondering if he will be mowed down by cartel machine gun fire trying to get across the street to get food for his family. The homeless are dying for Christmas and and many old people will die along with them, alone and without friends.
Now I can't tell you too much about other agendas, but I can tell you that I am honored to cajole and hobnob with the lovely Ms. Deering who is interested enough in what they sell to make civil conversation with a bunch of middle-aged, paunch-bellied speculators who know more about how the Deering's ought to run their business than they have learned in the last 35 years.
I am pretty pleased to find out out details and bits of info about my present Deerings and other potential Deerings and suspect Ms. Janet would do the same even if her last name was RecordingKing. To those self-absorbed narcissists that want to analyze the quality of their contributions to this thread and herald their right to make the same, I say stuffit!

vsiddhartha - Posted - 12/01/2010:  12:56:58

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quote:

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Originally posted by mullie1
...No piling on - just people sharing their experiences and calling it like they see it.

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I have no problem with the objective responses to Satch's question. What I think was in poor taste is those who made personal attacks and questioned his motive. Now, with regard to my defense of Satch, if you want to question my motive for defending Satch feel free...I am not ashamed to be unlike a lemming jumping on the bandwagon.

hayesdt - Posted - 12/01/2010:  13:16:13

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gomer

What really makes me stupid is that in Africa, there are kids not much older than my Hartford whose bellys are distended to the size of a basketball from chronic starvation; we got people getting killed over in the Middle east; and you know that as you read this, there is a father somewhere, hiding next to a building looking across the street wondering if he will be mowed down by cartel machine gun fire trying to get across the street to get food for his family. The homeless are dying for Christmas and and many old people will die along with them, alone and without friends.
Now I can't tell you too much about other agendas, but I can tell you that I am honored to cajole and hobnob with the lovely Ms. Deering who is interested enough in what they sell to make civil conversation with a bunch of middle-aged, paunch-bellied speculators who know more about how the Deering's ought to run their business than they have learned in the last 35 years.
I am pretty pleased to find out out details and bits of info about my present Deerings and other potential Deerings and suspect Ms. Janet would do the same even if her last name was RecordingKing. To those self-absorbed narcissists that want to analyze the quality of their contributions to this thread and herald their right to make the same, I say stuffit!

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Well stated.

Mullie - Posted - 12/01/2010:  13:20:26

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No worries vsiddhartha, it's great to not be a lemming bandwagon jumper and to be a contrarian voice for the oppressed. Cool. I think this thread has been terribly derailed and the subject of pricing of Vega vs Goodtime explored pretty well. (unless people have additional differences to point out between the two models).

Now, back to happier topics - I just saw a great video on YouTube with Al Caldwell (Travelling Black Hillbilly) in what looked like a Deering Crossfire? Not sure if I'm correct but ol' Al could sure play a great tune and he's worth checking out. I've also heard that he plays a Nechville as well.

DeanT - Posted - 12/02/2010:  01:11:40

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In 2010, Deering changed their policy, and now sell parts.

Rob MacKillop - Posted - 12/02/2010:  01:36:33

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First time I've contributed to this thread. I've recently purchased the Deering Eagle II and have to say it is easily the best-quality banjo I've played so far. It seems to have a wider tonal palette than most banjos, and great dynamics. The build quality is first rate. I honestly can't fault it. I bought mine at the Eagle Music shop in England after a phone call to the manager there. Steve Noon, who was extremely helpful - no wonder they have repeatedly sold more Deering banjos than any other store.

Although a 5-string, I use mine primarily as a Plectrum banjo. At present there is no Eagle II Plectrum, and as it was the tonal palette of the new 2010 tone ring I was after, I was happy to purchase the 5-string, which also allows me to indulge in a little bluegrass when I get the urge. I'm no bluegrass player, but made a video to give some idea of what it sounds like with finger picks on.

Just in case you misssed them elsewhere, here are a couple of videos.

VIDEO: Lazy Rhythm by Bert Bassett for Plectrum Banjo, c.1930 (click to view)

VIDEO: Deering Eagle II banjo (click to view)

capsholler - Posted - 12/02/2010:  03:31:27

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Seems to me that lesser popular banjo's in a (more rare) line sometimes are more expensive than the more popular models or best sellers. Deering operates in Ca where taxes are higher as are cost of living and wages,and it would seem that it would cost more to operate there. They have excellent customer service and have alway's been helpful on many of the times I have called, which incidentally was sometimes about questions I had about my USED Sierra. Good customer service cost money too as does rent and upkeep on a larger operation such as Deering. I applaud them for providing job's and helping the economy. It seem's some folk's here might have an ax to grind about free market economy and capitalism in general and of course the success of Deering Banjo Company.

Mullie - Posted - 12/02/2010:  05:28:28

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rob MacKillop

First time I've contributed to this thread. I've recently purchased the Deering Eagle II and have to say it is easily the best-quality banjo I've played so far. It seems to have a wider tonal palette than most banjos, and great dynamics. The build quality is first rate. I honestly can't fault it. I bought mine at the Eagle Music shop in England after a phone call to the manager there. Steve Noon, who was extremely helpful - no wonder they have repeatedly sold more Deering banjos than any other store.

Although a 5-string, I use mine primarily as a Plectrum banjo. At present there is no Eagle II Plectrum, and as it was the tonal palette of the new 2010 tone ring I was after, I was happy to purchase the 5-string, which also allows me to indulge in a little bluegrass when I get the urge. I'm no bluegrass player, but made a video to give some idea of what it sounds like with finger picks on.

Just in case you misssed them elsewhere, here are a couple of videos.

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Rob, great videos. You sure get a great sound out of the Eagle II and it was a pleasure to watch...thanks for posting!

Gomer - Posted - 12/02/2010:  08:38:13

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Greetings to you Mr. Dean! I dropped by to see the latest troll post. I will be right back after I get the popcorn from the nukrowave.

A question for you Ms. Janet. I see on a Youtube that John Hartford's Hartford had a metal tone ring, True? Did he also use the extended fretboard?

DeanT - Posted - 12/02/2010:  10:31:14

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I have some honest questions:

1. Will Deering sell the new Goodtime Special Tone ring/3-ply rim seperately, and if so, how much? I'd love to just upgrade my old Goodtime, as I actually like the gumbyhead, and already have SS frets in the old neck.

2. Can you special order a new Goodtime with SS frets through a dealer (such as JD or Banjo.com) and if so, how much would it add to the dealer's advertised cost?

3. Same as question as above only with an Eagle II?

4. What is the physical differences between the Eagle II's, and New Goodtime Special's, 2010 pat pend tone rings?

5. If I send my Calico's neck to Deering for a SS re-fret, what is the turn around time?

Thanks! I'm trying to formulate a plan for tax time

raharris - Posted - 12/02/2010:  13:22:06

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Anyone seen this? Mean Mary seems to like her Deering Goodtime!:

youtube.com/watch?v=ofAQtE7zHe0

dpete210 - Posted - 12/02/2010:  18:17:16

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Rob MacKillop, your Eagle II is a terrific sounding banjo! Congratulations to Deering. They certainly have a winner with this model. By the way, terrific playing, Mr. MacKillop!

Rob MacKillop - Posted - 12/02/2010:  23:28:33

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Thanks. It's certainly a great instrument.

Janet Deering - Posted - 12/03/2010:  09:22:13

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Thank you for posting here Rob.

Those are really wonderful clips showing the sound of your new Eagle with our new twenty-ten tone ring. It clearly rings with the new generation in banjo tone.

Your playing is quite lovely.

Thanks again, Janet

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Edited by - Janet Deering on 12/03/2010 09:23:01

Janet Deering - Posted - 12/03/2010:  09:35:38

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A question for you Ms. Janet. I see on a Youtube that John Hartford's Hartford had a metal tone ring, True? Did he also use the extended fretboard?

John Hartford played two different Hartford models. His original model and the one we sell the most of was the standard 22 fret banjo with the Hartford tone ring.

The second model we came out with in the late '90's was the 24-fret John Hartford which featured the 20 hole bell bronze tone ring and has the extra 2 frets.

He usually tuned one down lower, I believe it was the original Hartford he tuned in E and the 24 fret model was his G banjo. He played both alternately for different songs.

This is to the best of my recollection. If someone know with more certainty what he did please correct me.

Janet Deering - Posted - 12/03/2010:  09:58:19

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2. Can you special order a new Goodtime with SS frets through a dealer (such as JD or Banjo.com) and if so, how much would it add to the dealer's advertised cost?

No, we do not customize Goodtime banjos on a wholesale basis.
The only way to get one made with stainless steel frets is to call us directly and ask for the Custom Shop. The cost is $95 to have stainless steel frets installed.
Please allow about 4-6 weeks for delivery.

3. Same as question as above only with an Eagle II?

The Eagle, like all Deering banjos can be customized through a dealer. Same cost $95 for Stainless Steel frets.

4. What is the physical differences between the Eagle II's, and New Goodtime Special's, 2010 pat pend tone rings?

The Eagle II's has a slightly different shape and is made of a special brass alloy. The Goodtime Special has a slightly lighter design and is made of high grade steel.

5. If I send my Calico's neck to Deering for a SS re-fret, what is the turn around time?

It will take us about 2-3 weeks turn around time when we are not in the middle of the Christmas rush. I would recommend you send it in right after Christmas and we can take care of it after the New Year.

Janet Deering - Posted - 12/03/2010:  10:06:37

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Sorry, Dean I missed your first question:

1. Will Deering sell the new Goodtime Special Tone ring/3-ply rim seperately, and if so, how much?

Yes, we will sell you a new Goodtime Special Tone ring/3-ply maple rim separately.
You can order it directly from us. The Tone ring is $210 and the Goodtime rim is $95.
They will come already finished so you can just transfer your hardware over to the new rim and install your neck onto it.

You can order it from our website. The tone ring is already up there, I'll ensure we add the rim with tone ring to the site shortly.

deeringbanjos.com

DeanT - Posted - 12/03/2010:  10:41:39

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Thanks Janet for your time and information!
I'm crossing my fingers that the tax man is good to me this year (and maybe Santa too). The refret on the Calico is a must after the new year. The rest depends on how much my return is I'm drooling over the new Eagle II but at the same time considering upgrading my Goodtime instead. I'm still waiting for a local store to stock either or both so I can play them! I don't want to give up my old Goodtime neck... because it already has all my songs memorized

Grey Dog - Posted - 12/03/2010:  14:04:19

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quote:

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Originally posted by 1four5

... because it already has all my songs memorized

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Can I buy a Deering neck with songs pre-installed??

nematode! - Posted - 12/03/2010:  17:02:17

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I just bought a used Calico and it has a couple of chips in the finish on the peg head. What could I use to touch it up? Is the finish polyurethane or lacquer? I was thinking of using clear glossy fingernail polish, if it's a lacquer finish.
I don't know it's year of manufacture, but, the serial number on the sticker inside the resonator is #1239097-6402. The number on the back of the peg head is, 6402.
There are some strap rub marks in the finish on the heel, is there anything I can do to that? I'm not looking for a perfect finish, that would require a complete refinish job, just trying to pretty it up a bit.
Janet, thank you for your response.

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Edited by - nematode! on 12/06/2010 10:23:53

Janet Deering - Posted - 12/04/2010:  07:16:38

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It depends on the year it was made. Do you know the year?

Janet Deering - Posted - 12/04/2010:  07:26:57

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I love it! ..... already has my songs memorized.... sometimes it's almost like that.

I tend to think that having a new banjo, you need to warm it up like a house warming. Play it, share it with other great players and have them play it. The more it is played the notes get left on it, and soon it learns that it is a banjo and comes alive.

DeanT - Posted - 12/04/2010:  07:36:28

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It's true! Haven't you ever noticed that you can play all your songs at home, or at a jam, or on stage. But then you go to the music store and pick up a new banjo... and everyone is looking at you... and the banjo has no idea what to play, because it hasen't learned anything yet

I might freek out though, if I pick up an old used banjo, and it starts playing songs I don't know!

Bizdoc - Posted - 12/05/2010:  12:40:35

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1for5:
could I borrow your goodtime neck and plug into the Aux port on it and transfer the songs over to my Eagle II, I'm sure they'll sync up since they're both Deerings.

DeanT - Posted - 12/05/2010:  14:22:43

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If we could figure out how to make that work through the internet... WOW! Maybe we could get Beefus to help us hook it all up?