DeanT - Posted - 10/25/2010:  09:22:58

---

all of em! I play a lot in the 5-12th area and trash them as fast as 1-5. If I find a local luthier I trust *yikes* I might just go for 1-12 to save some $$. If I send my neck to Deering, it will be the whole shabang.

Um... Gomer... SS is non-magnetic...

---

Edited by - DeanT on 10/25/2010 09:24:15

vsiddhartha - Posted - 10/25/2010:  09:36:34

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1four5
Um... Gomer... SS is non-magnetic...

---

Actually many stainless steels are magnetic. Many are not. It depends on the type.

Back on topic. I'm amazed at how fast the frets are wearing on my 6-month-old Goodtime. I looked at my Les Paul and Taylor guitars, which are over 10-years old, and they have very little fret wear relative to the Goodtime. So whatever they used is much more durable than the Goodtime material. How do you know when it's time for a refret?

---

Edited by - vsiddhartha on 10/25/2010 09:37:31

DeanT - Posted - 10/25/2010:  09:56:42

---

A fridge magnet won't stick to my ss frets (yep, I actually tried it!)
When it's starts getting harder to play clean, without muffed and buzzy notes, it may be time to suspect the frets. They can look pretty bad before they actually start sounding bad. My original Goodtime frets went pretty quick as well. I'm prolonging my Calico's fret life by doing most of my practicing with my other banjos.

sleeptight - Posted - 10/25/2010:  10:03:24

---

"A basic stainless steel has a 'ferritic' structure and is magnetic. These are formed from the addition of chromium and can be hardened through the addition of carbon (making them 'martensitic') and are often used in cutlery. However, the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added. It is the nickel which modifies the physical structure of the steel and makes it non-magnetic. "

Gomer - Posted - 10/25/2010:  14:25:52

---

quote:

---

Back on topic. I'm amazed at how fast the frets are wearing on my 6-month-old Goodtime. I looked at my Les Paul and Taylor guitars, which are over 10-years old, and they have very little fret wear relative to the Goodtime. So whatever they used is much more durable than the Goodtime material. How do you know when it's time for a refret?

---

Guitars wear much differently. I have a '57 Firebird with frets that are pristine. I think the combination of loctite fingers when you start, along with the smaller guage strings are the first culprit. When you are bending and hammering, it speeds the wear process along. My first set wore out in a year. The second took two years. Now I have stainless and I have found the time to post on the hangout rather than being holed up in a dimly lit windowless room worrying about fretware.

feldspar1333 - Posted - 10/25/2010:  20:21:06

---

Wow... just played a Calico again today... I am in love. Beautiful instrument Janet!

DeanT - Posted - 10/26/2010:  01:12:16

---

Once bittin, it's hard to rest until you own one

jwgreene01 - Posted - 10/27/2010:  11:34:33

---

Not to corner you into a commitment Ms Janet D, but are you considering stainless or EVO fret wire be standard on Deering banjos?

Gomer - Posted - 10/28/2010:  07:29:48

---

I think that SS would be a pretty good selling point. The idea of ripping fretsout of ebony leaves me to believe that you may only get a finite number of refrets, after a time, devaluing the instrument.

Janet Deering - Posted - 10/28/2010:  10:15:49

---

We have not considered switching over fully to stainless steel frets. I'll ask Greg his thoughts.

I do know that it is not as easy to work with when installing Stainless Steel frets.

But, knowing that we respond to customer preference, if every customer felt stainless steel frets were important it would become very important to us as well.

Gymbal31 - Posted - 10/28/2010:  10:22:27

---

Janet, have you ever considered making instruments besides banjos? Maybe mandolins or guitars or fiddles?

Gomer - Posted - 10/28/2010:  16:56:40

---

<-------------- Every Customer. . .Stainless Steel=Important

sleeptight - Posted - 10/28/2010:  17:12:52

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gomer

<-------------- Every Customer. . .Stainless Steel=Important

---

agreed

DeanT - Posted - 10/28/2010:  19:28:28

---

quote:

---

if every customer felt stainless steel frets were important it would become very important to us as well.

---

The problem is that every customer may not be aware how important it is, they don't even know it's an issue. The new guy who buys a Goodtime doesn't have a clue. Then you have to consider how many hundreds of banjos are sold before one gets into the hand of someone who is going to really play it enough to wear out the frets. My first banjo was a Gold Tone, and the frets were toast very soon. I actually thought it was because it was a low end import banjo. I even wrote the company, and the reply was "We use the same fret wire Deering does" which I of course didn't believe, until I started wearing out the frets on my Calico, and totally trashed my Goodtime Frets. I REALLY KNOW THE IMPORTANCE of SS frets now, but it took $everal banjo$ and a couple years to learn that. I'm just one person in a vast sea of potential new banjo buyers, and I will never even consider buying new again, without SS frets from the factory. It may be something like intermittant windshield wipers on a car. Once someone came out with them, they became the new standard.

---

Edited by - DeanT on 10/28/2010 19:33:01

jwgreene01 - Posted - 10/29/2010:  05:19:08

---

There is definately a brand advantage $$ if Deering was the first to have SS as a standard if just on the mid to higher end banjos. Could increase GM. Deering should discuss in this in strategy meetings.

Grey Dog - Posted - 10/29/2010:  05:25:09

---

I can see SS as an option, but not standard.

My luthier loathes stainless steel (say THAT fast!!). His standpoint: The frets shouldn't be that significantly harder than the strings. Where he goes with that logic, I do not know....I'll ask him next time I am in his neighborhood.

I personally haven't seen a need for it, even on my main player for 4+ years.

Gomer - Posted - 10/29/2010:  06:54:06

---

I am paying about 3 bucks a set for strings and about a hundred times that for a refret. I would rather change the strings. I went to ss this summer and have shanged the strings maybe once.

DeanT - Posted - 10/29/2010:  07:54:30

---

I've read some real crazy stuff on the BHO about SS frets. Like they change the tone, or they will wear out and break your strings. Oh brother. I haven't experienced this. I've had SS on my Goodtime for a year now and totally love them. I did my own Goodtime refret with common hand tools, and didn't think it was that hard to work with at all. I think there are some unfounded myths that people spread for reasons I know not.

Grey Dog - Posted - 10/29/2010:  07:55:50

---

I know that *I* tried SS frets once, and my dog died....

So that's definitely something to worry about!!

DeanT - Posted - 10/29/2010:  08:05:51

---

You are not supposed feed them to your dog!!!

JLB - Posted - 10/29/2010:  08:44:39

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gomer

I went to ss this summer and have shanged the strings maybe once.

---

I shang my strings more often than that.

-Jim

Edited for spelling.

---

Edited by - JLB on 10/29/2010 08:45:18

Gomer - Posted - 10/29/2010:  21:47:48

---

"I shang my strings more often than that"
Touche! I drink heavily in the morning and can't use spell check. Moreover, my unaided eyesight is waning and I don't pay attention to proofreading. So shoot me!

I have just figured that I haven't shanged the strings on my Roguefort ( now featuring factory SS) since August and I play every day for at least an hour.

---

Edited by - Gomer on 10/30/2010 06:26:40

Gomer - Posted - 11/01/2010:  07:46:49

---

And Ms. Janet, about those tenbrook necks? Is the stock profile now the Deering profile or the original? Thanks

gdoc - Posted - 11/01/2010:  10:03:48

---

My opinion only. While this thread is VERY informitive, and I really respect the OWNER of a company to be availabe almost daily for questions and answers, (big time koodos for Janet!), without Gomer's input, it would be awfully dry. I check out this thread to see what Gomer is saying as much as to see what the daily questions and answers are.

Perhaps you should hire this guy Janet!?!

JLB - Posted - 11/01/2010:  12:05:28

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gomer
[br
I have just figured that I haven't shanged the strings on my Roguefort ( now featuring factory SS) since August and I play every day for at least an hour.

---

Less time spent shanging means more time to play.

Janet Deering - Posted - 11/02/2010:  08:24:39

---

That's okay, Gomer. We'll add a section in our banjo maintenance manual on shanging strings. We could set a whole new trend!

You wouldn't believe the improvements in industry that come from a mistake. The first stainless steel was a mistaken mixture that they dumped into the lake as reject and then discovered it never rusted. They had to figure out what they did to reformulate it years later to create stainless steel.

Shanging strings, I had to think a moment to see if I knew what that was.

The stock profile on the Tenbrooks is unchanged. But it can now be ordered with the Deering neck shape on request.

Bob Murphy - Posted - 11/02/2010:  12:53:49

---

Janet,

How does the Tenbrooks neck today compare to my 2006? Even though it is fairly beefy, it really tapers our as you go up the neck. I find it very comfortable. Were the 2006 necks made with your CNC machine?
Still love my Legacy!

Thanks
Bob

Gomer - Posted - 11/02/2010:  13:56:22

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by gdoc

Gomer's input. .

---

I am humbled that anything would be made from what is at best nothing more than officious intermeddling. Thankyou nonetheless for your gracious comment!

ctopp - Posted - 11/02/2010:  15:58:49

---

How was the banjo clinic at banjo.com. Sorry I couldn't be there.
Charles

Janet Deering - Posted - 11/02/2010:  18:26:17

---

The banjo clinic at Banjo.com was great. We had a good crowd of banjo players. Greg's workshop went for about 3 hours and everyone was fascinated watching him take the banjo apart and put it back together again while he talked. He answered every question in detail.

Terry Baucom's workshop was excellent. He is such an expressive player, I learned a lot hearing him talk about playing the banjo. The band was great, Cindy sang a song. It was really a terrific time. I enjoyed everyone who came.

The folks at Banjo.com were very welcoming and were right there giving personal service to those who came. To sum it up, we had great hospitality from a great banjo store. It was well worth the trip.

Gomer - Posted - 11/03/2010:  08:13:46

---

I have been forced to realize that I am a pretty big snob about my banjos. While I sort of tolerate the perennial discussion of the GoodTimes line, deep down inside I am thinking that talking about the Goodtimes is like discussing ground chuck when there is a thick prime porterhouse sitting on your lap.
So a friend comes over with his kid and "silvertone" banjo which they just bought on Ebay as a starter. The rim appeared to be made out of press board and the tuners barely attached. The strings took a circuitous trip from the nut across the rolling fret board to a restraining device on the tailpiece that defies description. it make a very multinational sound, reminiscent of stringed instruments from the African and Eurasian continents and even a hint of what we would recognize as the sound of banjo. Even schanging the strings did not help. It may have been an oar.
I think I instantly got the principle of the Goodtime in that moment. I am taking him over to ARAU the Instructor, the auricle of Deering this evening for a visitation . He speaks the language of these younger people and may be able to talk sense to him.

---

Edited by - Gomer on 11/03/2010 16:17:26

wildboar - Posted - 11/03/2010:  17:07:51

---

Janet,

Is there any price difference to order an Eagle II banjo (or any other 'glossy' model) with the satin finish like that of the Sierra?

Also, other than the finish, is the neck the same on both banjos?

-Daniel K

---

Edited by - wildboar on 11/03/2010 17:08:58

capsholler - Posted - 11/03/2010:  18:27:22

---

I wish the Eagle was finished like the Sierra. I played two of the Eagles at IBMA and loved their sound,just didn't care for all the gloss.

drew-gurbach - Posted - 11/03/2010:  19:10:10

---

I have a student who has a Calico, I believe. He really likes it. We usually have about a 3 or 4 hour lesson once a week. I always ask to play it at the end of the evening- we switch instruments. I really like the playability of the instrument but I think it’s a little weak in the volume department. He has light gauge strings, as do I. He had mediums but switched and likes those. Is that lack of volume typical of that model? Again, it’s got a nice sound, plays very well, but you really have to “dig in” to get volume. Thanks!

Gomer - Posted - 11/04/2010:  10:38:27

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by drew-gurbach

I have a student who has a Calico!

---

That is a discerning student that you should probably keep around.

The Calico takes my mind back to college days and a girl who wore short cut-off jeans with a red gingham shirt that was tied at her midriff. She had this raven black hair and freckles on her dimpled cheeks. She always smiled and said stuff like " Let's get outta here".

I think that the Calico is just as sexy and attractive. You handle it like a girlfriend. The Calico I played had .01 series strings and was plenty poppy. If you are concerned, the first thing I would do is to pop off the resonator to make sure there isn't a big clump of chewing gum on the back of the head. then I would make sure that the head is tightened up snug. You might find that the shanging the strings was not necessary

JLB - Posted - 11/04/2010:  12:15:58

---

Only shang strings when it's necessary!

DeanT - Posted - 11/04/2010:  13:58:33

---

Drew, my Calico is very sensitive to co-rod preload. It couldn't breathe until they were neutralized. If your student or a shop has altered it's action using the co-rods, that's a good bet why it's volume is choked. Also look to see if the tailpiece is down on the tension hoop. I've experimented to no end with this, and with the tailpiece at the factory setting, down on the tension hoop, my Calico looses volume and become thin and tinny sounding. This of course is assuming you've already checked the head's tension, and it has a good bridge.

Gomer - Posted - 11/04/2010:  14:35:06

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JLB

Only shang strings when it's necessary!

---

the word is shange, with a E, I have added it to dpellcheck

JLB - Posted - 11/04/2010:  15:30:50

---

I was using the Eurasian spelling.

JLB - Posted - 11/04/2010:  15:39:25

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1four5

Drew, my Calico is very sensitive to co-rod preload. It couldn't breathe until they were neutralized. If your student or a shop has altered it's action using the co-rods, that's a good bet why it's volume is choked. Also look to see if the tailpiece is down on the tension hoop. I've experimented to no end with this, and with the tailpiece at the factory setting, down on the tension hoop, my Calico looses volume and become thin and tinny sounding. This of course is assuming you've already checked the head's tension, and it has a good bridge.

---

I've noticed this with my Maple Blossom as well. Last week I finished preliminary assembly of a frankenbanjo the primary purpose of which is to learn more about setup without ruining my good banjo. I tried using the C rods to adjust action by putting quite a bit of compressive force on the rods. The tone improved. When I set the rods at neutral load the volume went away and the tone got thin. I haven't checked tone ring fit yet but I think the fit may have gotten looser at the edge 90* from the C rod direction from distorting the rim. With the rods slack the fit is tighter all the way around the rim. Like I said I'm trying to learn about all this but the C rods definately affected tone on my 2 'jos.

-Jim

Janet Deering - Posted - 11/04/2010:  17:59:39

---

Is there any price difference to order an Eagle II banjo (or any other 'glossy' model) with the satin finish like that of the Sierra?

Also, other than the finish, is the neck the same on both banjos?


No, there would not be a price difference if you ordered an Eagle II with satin finish.

Other than the finish, the neck is almost the same on both banjos. However, the inlays and the wood are not the same.

The neck shape is the same, but the Eagle is maple and the Sierra is mahogany.

Both have beautiful new inlay patterns designed by Greg.

Janet Deering - Posted - 11/04/2010:  22:08:12

---

Jim- good idea to play with a frankenbanjo to learn all about adjustments and what does what. If you can ever make it to one of Greg's Banjo Maintenance workshops he demonstrates a lot of the adjustments shows how things work and gives set up tips.

One of the primary mysterious killers of sound in any banjo is a slightly loose neck joint. You can't see it, so it easily can go unnoticed. But, in any banjo that doesn't sound as good as it should the first thing we do is make sure the coordinator rods are secured tightly to the hanger-bolts so that the neck is held tight to the rim. This allows the banjo to breathe as a unit and the sound to carry fully throughout the instrument. When this joint is tightened up a banjo will come alive.

By the way, we do sell a Banjo Maintenance DVD of one of Greg's workshops on line at deeringbanjos.com.

Cessna172 - Posted - 11/05/2010:  09:05:35

---

Agree with the importance of the neck to rim tightness. For years my Ode D was barely above a whisper. I'd only play the banjo inside with never more than guitar accompanyment.

Then one day while playing... I suspect I may have gotten a little aggresive (not Leroy Troy style) but enough that mild pressures on the neck significantly altered the tone.

After tightening the coordinator rods to the neck, the difference was amazing! It was like a whole second banjo was hidden inside all along and was finally set free.

Gary

JLB - Posted - 11/05/2010:  09:09:33

---

Hi Janet,

I was lucky enough to attend one of Greg's workshops last year at Grass Valley. Really informative and I would recommend to anyone interested in banjo setup to try and attend one. I liked the part where Greg tightens the head on a banjo in increments until it breaks to demonstrate the change in tone. A great segue into how to change a banjo head. I tend to learn by doing hence the frankenbanjo. I'll be trying most of the things Greg talked about on it I'm sure (maybe with the exception of breaking the head ) .

Thanks for the tip on checking the neck to pot connection. Certainly makes more sense than my speculation.

-Jim

rtyrie - Posted - 11/06/2010:  04:05:54

---

Hi Janet,
I caught the Letterman show last night with Steve Martin - I noticed Steve chose his Deering Clawgrass model for this show. Great exposure for a beautiful sounding and looking banjo.

Best
Ron

Janet Deering - Posted - 11/06/2010:  09:05:27

---

That's great to hear! I'll look and see if I can catch it on line.

Steve Martin is one of the most genuinely wonderful people I have ever met. I have found through experience that many of the top professionals in the arts have become so not only for their exceptional skills, but also because they are great people who are a blessing to everyone who works with them.

It is a combination of exceptional talent and being a great person that sets the stage for someone to reach that top echelon in the arts. Steve Martin is one of those very special people. I'm so glad he is enjoying performing with his banjo. He is reaching so many people and awakening a new interest in the instrument. More power to him!

NickC - Posted - 11/06/2010:  10:09:30

---

Well said! I don't think think i'd be playing the banjo today if i hadn't have heard an amazing interview with Steve Martin on the radio one day. It was my damascus moment!

disneykid52 - Posted - 11/06/2010:  14:21:43

---

Hello Janet
Sorry to say we do not have any Deering dealers here in town. My question is: how does the resonator in the Goodtime line attach to the banjo? My B&D vintage banjo attaches with a bolt through the back of the resonater, and the bolt is permanent. When I want to play quietly without the resonator, the bolt sticks way out, pokes at me and is a problem. I would like to buy a Goodtime Special OB or a resonator model if it can be played comfortably with resonator both on or off. What do you advise? I play mostly melodic picking style and do not clawhammer. Thanks!

Janet Deering - Posted - 11/10/2010:  08:57:47

---

The resonator attaches with four screws that go through the flange into the wall lugs in side the resonator. They can easily be removed but you do need to use a screw driver. Once you take off the resonator you have the flange that will rest on your lap and I've seen people play the banjo this way as an open-back. It can be done.

When you remove the resonator there is no problem at all if you are playing standing up, but if you are sitting down, the flange may not be as comfortable resting on your leg.

We have made many Deering banjos (particularly in the Hartford model) with our special pop-on brackets that allow us to create a convertible banjo with a removable resonator that clips onto a tube that we use instead of the flange. We only make this design in the Deering banjos as a light weight option. This is not available for Goodtime banjos.

We have not had requests for a pop-on bracket for Goodtimes to make the conversion between resonator and open-back easy with one banjo. That is another possibility, the bracket would need to attach the resonator to the co-ordinator rod and if done right, this would be the best option were we to pursue this. At this point you can just remove the resonator easily enough by taking off the four screws. You might want to try it and see how it feels. If you order one, many stores have a 7 day trial period to see if you like it.