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Aug 31, 2007 - 6:34:55 AM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by lost pilgrim

A couple of "Other" suggestions: Old Home Place (verse - I III7 IV I V I III7 IV I V; chorus -V I II7 V I III7 IV I V I) and Love, Please Come Home (I VII IV I IV I V I). These are two of my favourites.

One small quibble - in the master list you have Salty Dog and Don't Let Your Deal Go Down with I vi ii V I, where the lower case actually indicates minor chords. I see within the posts that the progression is indicated with all major chords, as is correct. (I know, I need a hobby, but I wouldn't want anyone to be confused.)

Great undertaking, and I'm sure that this was a great learning opportunity for you.

Scott

Ability to play the banjo soon places one in a social position to pick and choose from scores of social invitations. Everywhere, the banjoist is assured of a hearty welcome.
- from THE BANJO, 1927 pamphlet published by Gibson, Inc.



Scott,

Thank you for your excellent suggestions - I will soon post The Old Home Place and Love Please Come Home to the "Other" group. Those are great songs that I love.

I appreciate your comment re: major / minor notations. In fact I have been curious about this very point and a bit confused - I will pursue a better understanding of this theory point and make corrections as needed to the entire post in time.

Yes, the post has been (and continues to be) a great learning opportunity for me. I have learned quite a bit about chords, chord progression patterns, melodies, bluegrass songs in general and a bit about kiddie songs. Although it is not evident from the lists as posted, I have also learned quite a bit about timing / rhythm and a bit about lyrics to these songs. I do that by reviewing the groups from time - taking one or two songs from each group and using a metronome, the chord progression listed in the group and a songbook sometimes for lyrics I just slowly play rolls or strum my banjo and sing the song. Also and more to the stated purpose of the thread - this thread has helped me at jams. There have been many times when a song has been called at a jam - I immediately recall that the song is from one of the Groups listed on this thread - so, instead of a skipped heartbeat or a slight panic that I would have once had - I ask "What key do you want to do that song in?" and I proceed to do some purty good back-up.... it makes the jam a bunch more fun! I have also discovered that knowing the chord progressions has been a boost for me in learning to play the song. Sometimes the chord progression seems to be pretty nearly the song itself ..(i.e) Blackberry Blossom, Home Sweet Home.. others.

Thanks again for your suggestions and comments.

Phil
Katy, TX



"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

Aug 31, 2007 - 11:22:52 PM

447 posts since 12/24/2005

To make it simple, whatever key your playing in that is number 1. the only other chords you need for over 95% of all country, and bluegrass music is the 4, and 5 chord. Or on a banjo neck, open is G, and where ever you put your capo for other keys, just count up the neck 5 frets for the 4 chord, and 7 for the 5 chord. If you bar the 5th or 7th fret it will be the 4 and 5 chord of the key your in. If you play the one chord with a different fingering, the same fingering on the 5th or 7th fret will be your 4 and 5. Really it is very simple. forget your sharps and flats, all you need is the 3 basic fingerings for the banjo. It all works the same.

Sep 1, 2007 - 5:58:41 AM

erstokke

Norway

1329 posts since 3/20/2007

Playin guitar for 40 years, I find it very strange that when learning banjo, you are starting off with tabs and banjo solos. Nobody would start learnin guitar by playing solo in "Enter Sandman". Guitar players start with chords and chords progressions.
Read what dr. Banjo says about this:
drbanjo.com/news-newsarchive-a...music.php

Also, to play chord progressions, with a little practice, you usually do not need a chord sheet. The principle is that the main chord 1 (eg G) of the song leads up to 4 (eg C) and the 5 (eg D or D7) leads back to (1). If you play along with a guitar or bass, they will often give clues to which chord is coming up. From G the bass will usually walk up to C or down to D.

In addition, you will need to know which minor chords belong to each chord (C-Am, G-Em etc). Google the circle of fifths and you will probably find lots of basic musical therory.


My banjo is pre-war. Pre the next war
Jan Erik from Norway

Sep 1, 2007 - 8:18:21 AM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by erstokke

Playin guitar for 40 years, I find it very strange that when learning banjo, you are starting off with tabs and banjo solos. Nobody would start learnin guitar by playing solo in "Enter Sandman". Guitar players start with chords and chords progressions.
Read what dr. Banjo says about this:
drbanjo.com/news-newsarchive-a...music.php

Also, to play chord progressions, with a little practice, you usually do not need a chord sheet. The principle is that the main chord 1 (eg G) of the song leads up to 4 (eg C) and the 5 (eg D or D7) leads back to (1). If you play along with a guitar or bass, they will often give clues to which chord is coming up. From G the bass will usually walk up to C or down to D.

In addition, you will need to know which minor chords belong to each chord (C-Am, G-Em etc). Google the circle of fifths and you will probably find lots of basic musical therory.

<br>My banjo is pre-war. Pre the next war<br>Jan Erik from Norway



Jan Erik,

It seems like there are sometimes very different approaches to teaching the banjo. I first learned Cripple Creek with all the slides and hammers and fill-in notes - I did not have a clue as to what the chord progression was or even what the word chord meant. It took some time before I realized that I wanted to learn something about music before I went further playing the banjo. You are right on point with reference to Pete Wernick's teaching methods. You make a lot of good points in your post. Thanks for those ideas.

Phil
Katy, TX

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

Sep 2, 2007 - 12:35:55 PM

sjyokel

USA

912 posts since 8/17/2007

Sorry if somebody already noted this, but couldn't "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" (I vi ii V I) and "Salty Dog Blues" (I vi ii V I) really fall into the I-IV-V-I category? I'm away from my banjo at the moment, so I can't test my theory, but doesn't it seem more likely that the VI and the II are just harmonic subs for I and IV?


C.D.R.S.

Warning: I don't know half as much as I think I do, but my banjo playing is a lot better than it sounds.

Sep 20, 2007 - 6:25:10 AM

xray2

USA

288 posts since 6/9/2003

I've been using chord progressions to learn new guitar songs for 45 or so years; ever since I taught myself how to play guitar (folk music) and form a quartet during college days( Kingston Trio and Limelighter music); when in my mid 50s I decided to learn banjo, I found it lenghty and slow process , totally forgetting the chord progression concept and stumbling through tab after tab. More recently I did remember cp and have done some non-bluegrass music. All the posts here and responces here are so valuable,in raising the awareness of this much quicker way of being able to actually make a more recognizable music, especially for the beginner and even anyone who wants to depart from some of the more traditional banjo music.
Let me end with a pattern for George Hamilton IV "Abilene":
1-3-4-1, 2-5-1-4-1 (g-b-c---g; a-d--gcg).

Sep 20, 2007 - 3:44:16 PM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by xray2

I've been using chord progressions to learn new guitar songs for 45 or so years; ever since I taught myself how to play guitar (folk music) and form a quartet during college days( Kingston Trio and Limelighter music); when in my mid 50s I decided to learn banjo, I found it lenghty and slow process , totally forgetting the chord progression concept and stumbling through tab after tab. More recently I did remember cp and have done some non-bluegrass music. All the posts here and responces here are so valuable,in raising the awareness of this much quicker way of being able to actually make a more recognizable music, especially for the beginner and even anyone who wants to depart from some of the more traditional banjo music.
Let me end with a pattern for George Hamilton IV "Abilene":
1-3-4-1, 2-5-1-4-1 (g-b-c---g; a-d--gcg).





XRay2,

I had never touched a musical instrument or known what a chord was until after I retired - learning chord progressions has been a tremendous help to me in learning about music and songs. It has been especially helpful to me by taking a lot of the mystery out of music and in helping me with back-up. I love that song Abilene - thanks for that suggestion.

Phil
Katy, TX

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

Sep 21, 2007 - 7:34:51 PM

1700 posts since 7/9/2007

quote:
Originally posted by sjyokel

Sorry if somebody already noted this, but couldn't "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" (I vi ii V I) and "Salty Dog Blues" (I vi ii V I) really fall into the I-IV-V-I category? I'm away from my banjo at the moment, so I can't test my theory, but doesn't it seem more likely that the VI and the II are just harmonic subs for I and IV?
C.D.R.S.



If those two aren't 1-6-2-5-1 tunes, then such tunes must not exist. ;-) Then again, I have heard fiddle back-up for the A part of Blackberry Blossom as 1-5-1-5-1, so it's also just a matter of how a person chooses to play the tune.

Dave

Oct 4, 2007 - 9:49:13 PM

8951 posts since 3/24/2006


A couple of minor points:
Lost Pilgrim:
I've never seen a major key where the iii chord and the vi chord are major. In any major key the I. IV nd V (V7) chord s are Major chords, the ii, iii and vi chords are minor and the vii is a diminished chord. Thw usual convention is to represent major chords with upper case Roman numersals , minor (and diminished) chords with lower case.

SJYokel:
vi and ii as substitutes for IV and V is one way to look at it, but another way is to consider that chords in the progression can temporaroliy become the center of a secondary tonality with th first- like the orbit of a moon ( the ii or vi) aorund its planet (the IV or V7) which is itself orbting aorund teh real tonal center; I. some theorists explain the vi-ii-V as a chain of dominants- or "Five of Five" pattern which eventually leads back the the V, then home.



deligo ergo renideo,
Bob Cameron

Oct 5, 2007 - 9:55:37 AM

sjyokel

USA

912 posts since 8/17/2007

Cool. I wasn't familiar with the chain of dominants, but thanks for opening that door. I'll have to do some further research.

In the meantime, I think that leaves Salty Dog (for me at least) squarely in the "Other" category (not just a I-I-IV-V with a different voicing...if you will).

Oct 13, 2007 - 11:20:43 PM

821 posts since 1/30/2007

marker

Oct 14, 2007 - 2:22:32 AM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

I have recently added a couple of two chord songs to this thread: "Sally Goodin" and "Fireball Mail". I am not sure if "Angeline the Baker" is a two chord song (I V). Does anybody have any thoughts on whether "Angeline The Baker" is a two chord song?


"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

Oct 14, 2007 - 2:29:29 AM

GerhardP

Germany

2542 posts since 3/17/2004

It's a three chord song. Edit: googled a little and actually found a two chord version, which goes to the IV chord at the end of the line where I go to the V chord. Maybe there are two versions out there. If it were two chord it would be I and IV, not I and V like most two chord songs.

Gerhard


"Most bullet holes in banjos are a result of poor aim"
(Fretless Josh Saw in BNL July '02)

Edited by - GerhardP on 10/14/2007 02:33:15

Oct 14, 2007 - 3:22:48 AM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by GerhardP

It's a three chord song. Edit: googled a little and actually found a two chord version, which goes to the IV chord at the end of the line where I go to the V chord. Maybe there are two versions out there. If it were two chord it would be I and IV, not I and V like most two chord songs.

Gerhard


"Most bullet holes in banjos are a result of poor aim"
(Fretless Josh Saw in BNL July '02)




Gerhard,

Thanks for the research and info. You have solved a question I have had for some time. I have also found a version of two chord (I IV, as you said). In my posts to the first page of this thread I try to stay on the very simplest of presentations and chord progressions for purposes of just getting a handle on many of these songs. Thank you for your post - I will add that song as a two chord (I IV) song. I appreciate you comments.

Phil




"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

Oct 22, 2007 - 5:55:14 PM

28 posts since 3/7/2006

Thanks for the chart, has benn real handy!

Oct 24, 2007 - 11:16:42 PM

75150 posts since 5/9/2007

I keep finding reasons for thanking my dad for teaching me how to hear chord changes.My first few years on banjo were done chording with a flat pick...basically playing backup to Dad's pedal steel and Ma's piano.Some of Ma's sheet music had chords written over the notation and sometimes with a little bit of guitar fretboard showing the guitar chords.Great foundational stuff that has served me well.

Sometimes I just gotta wait for better weather

Feb 22, 2008 - 9:35:43 PM

Galen

USA

64 posts since 12/8/2007

woah, that really makes sense. That really makes a lot of sense. Thanks bro, thats going to make achieving great banjo prowess one heckuva lot easier.

Feb 23, 2008 - 1:17:22 PM

coelhoe

USA

1239 posts since 2/20/2007

I've always played Angeline I VIm I IV I. In D that would be D Bm, D G D.

Dennis




"Not being able to play very well is a good substitute for not having good taste." -Eddie Adcock

Feb 25, 2008 - 3:16:38 PM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by Galen

woah, that really makes sense. That really makes a lot of sense. Thanks bro, thats going to make achieving great banjo prowess one heckuva lot easier.




You are welcome. I hope you get some beneficial ideas from the chord listings. I have had several emails through the BHO from members expressing thanks for the listing efforts. I appreciate those messages.

Phil
Katy, TX

"Banjo isn't that hard - just requires a lot of time and focused concentration, practicing rightly and with intent rather than noodling. Keep at it." (Ron Block)

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey" [Chris Quinn]

Feb 26, 2008 - 7:11:49 PM

2057 posts since 11/24/2003

What a great source of information. I've already sent to other band members.

Feb 27, 2008 - 8:06:33 AM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Jakonczuk

What a great source of information. I've already sent to other band members.






Joe,

Thanks for the comment.

Phil
Katy, Tx

"Banjo isn't that hard - just requires a lot of time and focused concentration, practicing rightly and with intent rather than noodling. Keep at it." (Ron Block)

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey" [Chris Quinn]

Feb 27, 2008 - 10:22:03 AM

beegee

USA

22516 posts since 7/6/2005

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone needs this chart. What happens if you're at a jam and you discover that you left the chart home? Do you pack your mess and go home?

______________________________

turtle on a fencepost....

Feb 27, 2008 - 10:45:54 AM

2057 posts since 11/24/2003

Some of us aren't as good as you beegee. If there is a song that I hear and there is a song that I already play, it will be easier if I know the chord progression ahead of time. I see this as a learning tool at home, not used for reference at a jam. It's also a great list of bluegrass songs for reference.

Feb 27, 2008 - 3:21:13 PM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by beegee

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone needs this chart. What happens if you're at a jam and you discover that you left the chart home? Do you pack your mess and go home?

______________________________

turtle on a fencepost....



I have been to quite a few jams - I don't use the chart to get chord progressions at jams. I have never been to a jam where there is time to refer to such information. I am usually lucky if I can just get the name of the tune and the key we are going to play the song. I will admit that I have an Excel spreadsheet of the 'chart' in the front of my songbook - but it is for my review and practice at home or on my patio - not for flipping through when somebody calls a song.

I use the 'chart' for practice - I practice many of the chord progressions every day. Then, many times when a song is called at a jam I am mentally prepared for playing the song in that I know the chord progression and I feel I can participate and back-up and maybe offer a banjo break in some cases (more and more as time goes by). For example, if someone calls for a song called "Before I Met You" ... I know immediately from practices I have done how the chord progression goes. I know it is basically a I IV I V I chord progression and is played in 3/4 and the chorus starts on a IV. This 'chart' has helped me learn that chord progression and those little tid-bits about that song along with many other songs. This is just my view of how this 'chart' can be used. It is a learning tool. It is not in my opinion a very good quick reference during a jam situation. There just isn't enough time to use it at a jam.

On the other hand, I have done a quick scan of the 'chart' at a jam a time or two when it is my turn to call a song..... this scan is just to give me a quick reminder of songs I like to play.

On another note ... & this is off topic - I dislike the occasional scramble of trying to figure out the key the song is going to be played in. For songs I pick, I always announce the song title and the key we are going to play... & I make that announcement loud and clear.

Thanks for your comment.

Phil
Katy, Tx

"Banjo isn't that hard - just requires a lot of time and focused concentration, practicing rightly and with intent rather than noodling. Keep at it." (Ron Block)

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey" [Chris Quinn]

Edited by - Kemo Sabe on 02/28/2008 04:23:37

Feb 27, 2008 - 3:27:15 PM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Jakonczuk

Some of us aren't as good as you beegee. If there is a song that I hear and there is a song that I already play, it will be easier if I know the chord progression ahead of time. I see this as a learning tool at home, not used for reference at a jam. It's also a great list of bluegrass songs for reference.





Joe - thanks for your response. I wish I had read it before I posted my response. You did a hell of a lot better answering the idea than I did.

Phil
Katy, TX

"Banjo isn't that hard - just requires a lot of time and focused concentration, practicing rightly and with intent rather than noodling. Keep at it." (Ron Block)

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey" [Chris Quinn]

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