Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

2719
Banjo Lovers Online


Today's Chords: 'Playing the Melody' .. + see pg. 11

Want to hide these Google ads? Join the Players Union!

Page:  First Page   1  2  3   4   5  ...   Next Page   Last Page (11) 

Apr 30, 2007 - 4:53:47 PM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by rstieg

"My Little Home in Tennessee", sometimes called "Little Home in Tennessee" is not one of the most commonly played bluegrass songs, just one I happen to like. I believe it's an old Carter family song and has been recorded by a number of artists, recently by IIIrd Tyme Out. There is a tab for it at banjobluegrass.free.fr/Banjo_tabs_M.html, though chords are not included. You can tell from the tab, however, that it is a I - !V - V - I chord progression.

There are a few other songs I've found where at least the verse is a I - !V - V - I progression. I'll try to find my list and post them here.

RICH
Pleasanton, CA

The truth is a moving target... perception is more important than reality... everything is relative...



Thanks rstieg - I have updated Group D with your suggestion. I would love to put some more into Group D. Yesterday on the patio I was 'noodling around' with 'Man of Constant Sorrow' and it hit me like a rock ......this thing's got the Group D pattern (Ha).

Thank you again rstieg - I am looking forward to hearing that song '(MY) Little Home in Tennessee' and in the meantime if someone calls it in a jam I gonna say "Let's Do It"!

Phil
Katy, TX

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn 11/02/2004)

Apr 30, 2007 - 6:38:15 PM

rstieg

USA

1616 posts since 10/1/2003

I forgot to check my list at home over lunch, but here are a few others I believe should be in "Group D": We'll Meet Again Sweetheart, Is It Too Late Now (both Flatt & Scruggs). Also, Give Me Forty Acres and there's a gospel song that I can't remember right now. I'll get back to you with any others I can come up with.

RICH
Pleasanton, CA

The truth is a moving target... perception is more important than reality... everything is relative...

May 1, 2007 - 8:49:44 AM

rstieg

USA

1616 posts since 10/1/2003

Here are a few others in Group D - I'm Using My Bible for a Roadmap, Great Speckled Bird, and Teardrops in My Eyes (verse).

RICH
Pleasanton, CA

The truth is a moving target... perception is more important than reality... everything is relative...

May 2, 2007 - 1:28:21 PM

rstieg

USA

1616 posts since 10/1/2003

Here's another one for Group D: I Wonder Where You Are Tonight. We just played this one at a jam last night.

RICH
Pleasanton, CA

The truth is a moving target... perception is more important than reality... everything is relative...

May 7, 2007 - 11:18:17 PM

591 posts since 1/16/2007

Good thread...Light just went off...***Ding Ding***. I get it. I love when something simple that has been kicking me in the rear clicks. Thanks everybody!!

Tim Nash
"Awaiting my Huber"

May 8, 2007 - 3:40:51 AM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by slowlybutsurely

Good thread...Light just went off...***Ding Ding***. I get it. I love when something simple that has been kicking me in the rear clicks. Thanks everybody!!

Tim Nash
"Awaiting my Huber"



Tim - You've made my day with that comment. As I've worked on these lists I find myself listening to more and more Flatt & Scruggs, Stanley Brothers, Bill Monroe, Jimmy Martin .... + a lot of other Bluegrass artists. The music is beautiful stuff and the 'ear training' for me is coming along nicely. It is amazing to me to discover how so many 'patterns' [chords, themes, licks, tempos, etc.] occur. I find myself grabbing my banjo and following the chord progressions more and more often.

When are you getting your Huber? One thing I discovered the day I got my Huber (which was delivered on my birthday about a year and a half ago): It's a lot more fun practicing with such a beautiful, quality instrument.

Phil
Katy, TX


"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

May 15, 2007 - 7:40:21 AM

3065 posts since 1/24/2007

Excellent work, Kemo. These lists are already proving useful. Thanks to you and the rest of the contributors to this thread.

AD3

May 16, 2007 - 2:05:08 PM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by AD3AD3AD3

Excellent work, Kemo. These lists are already proving useful. Thanks to you and the rest of the contributors to this thread.

AD3



AD3 - I'm glad these ideas are helping. One thing these lists are doing for me is helping me to realize that a lot of this stuff "Ain't that hard" once I grab an understanding of the chord porgressions. It kind of takes the mystery out of some of this stuff and simplifies the thought process when doing back-up (as Texas Banjo mentioned in her post above).

Phil
Katy, TX

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

May 18, 2007 - 2:38:14 PM

476 posts since 1/24/2005

I just managed to re-locate this thread with some difficulty. I would suggest that this be made a either a sticky or that it gets its own link off of the Tablature section or in the lessons section.

May 19, 2007 - 9:21:21 PM

478 posts since 3/7/2006

Thanks for the list Phil, that will come in handy

Scott

( ) ===== : :

"Just start picking and we'll figure it out"

May 20, 2007 - 9:03:52 PM

99 posts since 1/8/2004

Thank You so much!
I've been away from the boards & my banjo for a while. This is so encouraging to find my first time back.
YipEEee

watersprite

May 25, 2007 - 3:52:43 PM

459 posts since 8/18/2006

While the chord progressions are the same for all of these tune (within their groups) the timing for each chord differs from song to song.
In Cripple Creek, for example, the IV is only a half measure, but in Worried Man Blues it's three measure.

It maybe obvious to most, but I thought it should be mentioned.

May 25, 2007 - 4:27:53 PM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by Rollingwolf

While the chord progressions are the same for all of these tune (within their groups) the timing for each chord differs from song to song.
In Cripple Creek, for example, the IV is only a half measure, but in Worried Man Blues it's three measure.

It maybe obvious to most, but I thought it should be mentioned.







Rollingwolf - you make a very important point and you said it very well and I agree with you - it should be mentioned. To me, the timing on the chord changes is the fun part to figure out. I like what Murphy Henry says: "If it doesn't sound right, it's not right".

Phil
Katy, TX

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

May 31, 2007 - 5:22:18 PM

hipine

USA

67 posts since 7/3/2006

Great list and great thread.

The thing that has always struck me funny is that THIS is the way most guitar lessons START. I had a college room mate who one day said, "I bet I can teach you 50 songs on the guitar in about 20 minutes." I was incredulous, but where he was coming from was this idea that if you learn a G, C, and D chord, you can "play" every song in that list. Hand you a capo and you can play them all in 3 keys.

And yet for some reaon, when I approached banjo instructors with this request, "I wanna learn banjo like people learn guitar, give me 20 minutes and I'll show you how to play 20 songs on the banjo", they all looked at me like I was from Mars.

"Jest lern yer tabs boy!"

So I stayed home, saved my lesson money for a nicer banjo, and started digging chord progressions out of every source I could find.

And heck, it's easy to find people to play with because everybody knows breaks they can do while I mess around with rolls and chords!

I don't know why more instructors don't teach this way. You as the instructor know the leads. Those are very impressive, but me the dumb student can only pick them up excruciatingly slowly through tons of repetition that "doesn't sound like a song" (heard that before?). Well, what if the instructor could teach me the chord progression with a basic forward/backward roll for a few different songs, start my ear training listening to chord changes and timing, get me on the road to playing with others in my FIRST lesson instead of not thinking I was "ready for that" for three years down the road, and best of all, get me thirsting for how to inject a bit of that fancy lead playing into the song somewhere.

It seems like about a thousand times better teaching method than plunking out a tab for me and telling me, "Practice enough and someday you'll be able to do this....."

Sorry just venting a little. As I said, great list, great thread. It just needs a catchier title like, "YOU can play 50 banjo tunes whether you know it or not!"

-Dave G.

BTW - In the above reference to "you" the instructor, I don't mean to lash out at "you" Phil, just at narrow minded instructors. but even them just a little bit. :^)

Edited by - hipine on 05/31/2007 17:30:55

May 31, 2007 - 6:04:09 PM

1361 posts since 6/18/2003

hipine:

AMEN!!!

Kemo Sabe: Great list, thanks for taking the time to do this. I've got an issue though with "This Land Is Your Land" in Group A. The song starts on the IV chord, so it doesn't seem to me that it belongs in Group A (or B or C or D.)

-Ryan.

May 31, 2007 - 6:56:39 PM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by RyanHerr

hipine:

AMEN!!!

Kemo Sabe: Great list, thanks for taking the time to do this. I've got an issue though with "This Land Is Your Land" in Group A. The song starts on the IV chord, so it doesn't seem to me that it belongs in Group A (or B or C or D.)

-Ryan.







Hipine - Amen from me too - thanks for that post!

Ryan - thanks for the post on that song and I am struggling to understand the song better. Like Hipine above I am using every source I can find to determine and verify chord progressions. On this song (This Land Is Your Land) I first tried to determine the chord progression by just singing the song and strumming the banjo. I am starting the first line ....'This land is your land' ....with a REAL QUICK strum of the I chord on the word 'LAND" then switching to the IV chord on the word 'YOUR' ....: Example: (C)This land is (F)Your land this land is (C) my land from Cali (G)fornia to the New York (C) Island ..... .' It seems like it works in that I IV I V I group - but I am ok with ideas of where I am going wrong on this song. Am I fudging the first of the song by putting that I chord (C) at the first?

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

May 31, 2007 - 7:11:26 PM

1361 posts since 6/18/2003

Kemo Sabe, you bring up some interesting issues. Here's how I hear it: "This land is" are pick-up notes, and the first downbeat of the song falls on "your."

Like in Amazing Grace, "A-" is a pick-up note, and the first downbeat of the song falls on "-maz(ing)," or in She'll Be Coming Round the Mountain "She'll be" are pick-up notes, and the first downbeat of the song falls on "com(ing.)"

So for This Land Is Your Land, I'd say that in a certain sense the song starts on "your" which is on the IV chord. If you were to play the chords to these songs in a cycle over and over, you'd say that the cycle of chords restarts on "your" and "-maz(ing)" and "com(ing)", not on "This land is" or "A-" or "She'll be."

Let me know if this makes any sense or not.

-Ryan.

May 31, 2007 - 7:38:30 PM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by RyanHerr

Kemo Sabe, you bring up some interesting issues. Here's how I hear it: "This land is" are pick-up notes, and the first downbeat of the song falls on "your."

Like in Amazing Grace, "A-" is a pick-up note, and the first downbeat of the song falls on "-maz(ing)," or in She'll Be Coming Round the Mountain "She'll be" are pick-up notes, and the first downbeat of the song falls on "com(ing.)"

So for This Land Is Your Land, I'd say that in a certain sense the song starts on "your" which is on the IV chord. If you were to play the chords to these songs in a cycle over and over, you'd say that the cycle of chords restarts on "your" and "-maz(ing)" and "com(ing)", not on "This land is" or "A-" or "She'll be."

Let me know if this makes any sense or not.

-Ryan.







Ryan - you are correct - there are pick-up notes then the first downbeat is a IV. I will look at those other songs you mention and I suppose there are others that have 'downbeats' that are similar to that song. I appreciate your posts on these lists. I have made the correction to 'This Land Is Your Land'.

Thanks,

Phil
Katy, TX

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

May 31, 2007 - 7:58:22 PM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by hipine

Great list and great thread.

The thing that has always struck me funny is that THIS is the way most guitar lessons START. I had a college room mate who one day said, "I bet I can teach you 50 songs on the guitar in about 20 minutes." I was incredulous, but where he was coming from was this idea that if you learn a G, C, and D chord, you can "play" every song in that list. Hand you a capo and you can play them all in 3 keys.

And yet for some reaon, when I approached banjo instructors with this request, "I wanna learn banjo like people learn guitar, give me 20 minutes and I'll show you how to play 20 songs on the banjo", they all looked at me like I was from Mars.

"Jest lern yer tabs boy!"

So I stayed home, saved my lesson money for a nicer banjo, and started digging chord progressions out of every source I could find.

And heck, it's easy to find people to play with because everybody knows breaks they can do while I mess around with rolls and chords!

I don't know why more instructors don't teach this way. You as the instructor know the leads. Those are very impressive, but me the dumb student can only pick them up excruciatingly slowly through tons of repetition that "doesn't sound like a song" (heard that before?). Well, what if the instructor could teach me the chord progression with a basic forward/backward roll for a few different songs, start my ear training listening to chord changes and timing, get me on the road to playing with others in my FIRST lesson instead of not thinking I was "ready for that" for three years down the road, and best of all, get me thirsting for how to inject a bit of that fancy lead playing into the song somewhere.

It seems like about a thousand times better teaching method than plunking out a tab for me and telling me, "Practice enough and someday you'll be able to do this....."

Sorry just venting a little. As I said, great list, great thread. It just needs a catchier title like, "YOU can play 50 banjo tunes whether you know it or not!"

-Dave G.

BTW - In the above reference to "you" the instructor, I don't mean to lash out at "you" Phil, just at narrow minded instructors. but even them just a little bit. :^)





Dave - I am getting a better understanding of songs by hearing and learning chord changes. I have discovered that if I am in the right chord and I keep the rolls going with good timing I am about halfway home with a lot of these songs. To me, this 'chord based banjo playing' is a lot more fun than what I learned from tab. I learned some neat licks and slurs with the tab stuff but I think focusing on the chord progressions is helping me to put things together at this point. The focus on chords is also a definite plus to playing back-up (yep...I know that is a "DUH! - That was easy" but it has taken me some time to put it together). I have discovered this world of music is full of 'Duh - that was easy ' - it just takes time to piece them together.

Thanks for the great ideas in your post.

Phil



"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

May 31, 2007 - 8:06:27 PM

Stan41

USA

44 posts since 5/16/2007

I believe that Chord progression will become second nature with anyone who plays a lot of backup. In the 1960's I played banjo with a group of old time fiddlers. Usually it was fiddle, banjo, and 1 or 2 guitars. Around here the banjo was not a common instrument and most folks didn't know that it could "lead". At the time I was a rank beginner and couldn't lead, so I played lots of backup. I still can't lead much, but can still play backup even though I laid the Banjo aside for about 30 years. Just recently got interested again. Even now on a song I never heard before I can hear chord changes before they get here and unless it is a really unusual chord (Fiddlers sometimes do that) I can always hit the right one.

Does this make sense?
Stan

May 31, 2007 - 8:28:08 PM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by Stan41

I believe that Chord progression will become second nature with anyone who plays a lot of backup. In the 1960's I played banjo with a group of old time fiddlers. Usually it was fiddle, banjo, and 1 or 2 guitars. Around here the banjo was not a common instrument and most folks didn't know that it could "lead". At the time I was a rank beginner and couldn't lead, so I played lots of backup. I still can't lead much, but can still play backup even though I laid the Banjo aside for about 30 years. Just recently got interested again. Even now on a song I never heard before I can hear chord changes before they get here and unless it is a really unusual chord (Fiddlers sometimes do that) I can always hit the right one.

Does this make sense?
Stan





Stan - yes, that does make a lot of sense to me. I consider myself pretty much that rank beginner you discribed in your post even though I have been into this music stuff for a couple of years. There are certain songs where I do back-up (Blue Ridge Cabin Home for a very good example) - where I do not have to think about the chord progression. Instead of thinking about chord progressions I am having lots of fun thinking about 'Just where do I want to go for that next chord...I then IV then V then I chord... ...up and down the neck...I am usually thinking 'How can I help the singer or whoever is taking the break' ...how can I make this song sound a little better and improve just a bit with the banjo sounds .. [Also...how can I keep this Huber in the 'quite mode' to help this song along....and when can I open up a bit on the volume and do my thing.....] Those are the thoughts I am looking forward to having when I get better understanding and confidence on more and more songs.

Phil

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

Edited by - Kemo Sabe on 05/31/2007 20:48:02

May 31, 2007 - 9:05:50 PM

Stan41

USA

44 posts since 5/16/2007

Phil: I think I made a mistake in my Banjo education. In the 1960's I bought one of the early Ome Grubstakes (ser. No. 358) that was when it was still being made by hippies in Boulder, Colorado. I never met any other banjo men to show me anything. The only thing I had was the Scruggs book and records. I did however play many hours with old time Texas fiddlers. Some of them were quite good in the Texas style of fiddling. One of the best ones I ever knew would call the chords as he played. This was for the benefit of his beginning nephews who were trying to learn guitar. I will never forget one night he was playing some tune with many weird chords and he was calling them. When we got through one of the boys said "That is hard!" He said "Well boys, you will find that the prettiest music there is, is hard to play".

I got too busy making a living (or thought so) that I didn't play at all for many years although I have always had a love for bluegrass. Since I am now 66 and retired I have started going to some bluegrass festivals and picking at home on the banjo. Boy am I really rusty. Don't know if I will ever get these old right hand fingers to move fast enough again, but I'm going to try.
Stan

May 31, 2007 - 9:22:08 PM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by Stan41

Phil: I think I made a mistake in my Banjo education. In the 1960's I bought one of the early Ome Grubstakes (ser. No. 358) that was when it was still being made by hippies in Boulder, Colorado. I never met any other banjo men to show me anything. The only thing I had was the Scruggs book and records. I did however play many hours with old time Texas fiddlers. Some of them were quite good in the Texas style of fiddling. One of the best ones I ever knew would call the chords as he played. This was for the benefit of his beginning nephews who were trying to learn guitar. I will never forget one night he was playing some tune with many weird chords and he was calling them. When we got through one of the boys said "That is hard!" He said "Well boys, you will find that the prettiest music there is, is hard to play".

I got too busy making a living (or thought so) that I didn't play at all for many years although I have always had a love for bluegrass. Since I am now 66 and retired I have started going to some bluegrass festivals and picking at home on the banjo. Boy am I really rusty. Don't know if I will ever get these old right hand fingers to move fast enough again, but I'm going to try.
Stan





Stan - I just got back from Boulder a couple of months ago (Pete Wernick's Banjo Camp)... One of the half days off included a tour of the Ome banjo mfg. up there. I did not go ... it was a sleep-in morning for me... I know they make a very fine banjo. I too am 66 and retired... but I never touched a musical instrument until a couple of years ago after I retired. I have taken a college course on Music Theory (tests were painful to get back to but I blew the hell out of the curve for all the kids - my final avg was 111 out of a possible 100 . I have taken quite a few lessons on the banjo and been to several Bluegrass Camps ..and festivals. I am really enjoying all this music stuff. I have been to a lot of jams but lately have backed off a bit trying to absorb what I have learned in jams and in camps. This thread on Chord Progressions has been quite a project for me and educational....hey, I have done term papers in college that were easier than this thread - but not as much fun. I hope I get to see you one of these days at a festival.

Phil

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

Jun 1, 2007 - 1:22:30 AM

1126 posts since 7/15/2003

quote:
Originally posted by RyanHerr

Kemo Sabe, you bring up some interesting issues. Here's how I hear it: "This land is" are pick-up notes, and the first downbeat of the song falls on "your."

Like in Amazing Grace, "A-" is a pick-up note, and the first downbeat of the song falls on "-maz(ing)," or in She'll Be Coming Round the Mountain "She'll be" are pick-up notes, and the first downbeat of the song falls on "com(ing.)"

So for This Land Is Your Land, I'd say that in a certain sense the song starts on "your" which is on the IV chord. If you were to play the chords to these songs in a cycle over and over, you'd say that the cycle of chords restarts on "your" and "-maz(ing)" and "com(ing)", not on "This land is" or "A-" or "She'll be."

Let me know if this makes any sense or not.

-Ryan.







Ryan - the more I think about this thing, I know you are right. The pick-up notes I believe TIMEWISE are notes that are subtracted from the last measure of the song .... this is a little bit of theory I guess in a way but my text from the course I took a while back states: "Pickup durations are subtracted from the final complete measure of a composition or exercise (in 4/4, a pickup of one beat necessitates a last measure of only three beats)." This text was our course material in a course called Music Fundamentals and the book is entitled 'Rudiments of Music for Music Majors' and was written by Eileen Soskin. My guess is that when you combine those partial measures (the last and first) in cycling back through the song it works real PURDY! I hope my college music teacher doesn't see this - she might go back and change my grade. It would ruin my day if she took me down from A +++ to A++. I never had this much fun in my career as a CPA!

Phil

"Remember to enjoy the banjo journey." (Chris Quinn)

Edited by - Kemo Sabe on 06/01/2007 01:31:11

Jun 1, 2007 - 11:57:29 AM

hipine

USA

67 posts since 7/3/2006

quote:
....The pick-up notes I believe TIMEWISE are notes that are subtracted from the last measure of the song ....



You got it all goin' on, mah bruthuh!

You opened up the box, so now I gotta know. Chicken or the egg? Did this chord stuff come out of Pete's camp, or did you hook up with Pete's camp when looking for a way to progress along these lines? I know he teaches this way now. I stumbled onto a "letter to banjo instructors" or something on his website once that caused me to yell "THANK YOU!" right out loud as it resonated so well with feelings I'd had for years, and expressed above. I'd love to attend one of Pete's camps. Justa haven't bene able to find the money and time among other hobies and pursuits.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on that camp, as pertains to the general subject of this post, building banjo arangements from chord progressions.

You mentioned playing this way was more fun for you. Me too. Not least of which is because it opens up a whole PILE of tunes that nobody's written banjo tab for. I like playing banjo to a lot of different songs. Mark Knopfler, Jimmy Buffet, New Riders, Hank Snow, Dylan, etc. No tabs for those, but easy to find chords. I have a lot of fun being able to "play" that stuff on the banjo.

Someone else mentioned playing with fiddlers. Timely that. My wife is learning the violin from books. She's a natural born musician and plays a ton of different ones, and has a great ear. Last night I was sitting out on the deck mesing around with "Rabbit in the Log" and singing as I went (I think a big part of why I like comping is that I can sing to it, even though my singing is bad!). She stood there tapping her foot for a minute, then was gone, and came back with her fiddle. After 5 or 10 minutes, she was playing a nice melody part that sounded really good with the banjo.....And before you know it, the 6 year old comes running from where he was playing out in the yard, runs inside, and comes back with HIS little violin that he hasn't touched in 6 months. He runs through "Twinkle Twinkle" and then Cheryl says, "You can play this song daddy's doing too, wanna try?" And before long, he's sawing out those same notes she did. Unbelievable how much fun it is making (simple) music with the family. I don't think there's a bus in our future or anything, but it sure is nice to play together.

Keep up the good work everybody. You inspire the heck outa me!

-Dave G.

Page:  First Page   1  2  3   4   5  ...   Next Page   Last Page (11) 

Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.4375