kmwaters - Posted - 05/30/2013:  09:50:02

I saw a video where he said something like "we're going to do a number featuring the 5 string" or something to that effect and never mentioned the banjo player's name.  Am I reading too much into this, or was he really that self-absorbed?  Sometimes I see him as one of those "It's all about me" types.  

Edited by - Bill Rogers on 06/04/2013 23:57:29

Nick Danger - Posted - 05/30/2013:  09:57:10

I've read MANY first-hand accounts regarding Monroe's personality and his interactions with folks, and I came to the conclusion that I'd be hard pressed to spend any time with this individual -- personally or professionally.  Life's too short to put up with jerks.

kmwaters - Posted - 05/30/2013:  10:03:08

Then maybe that little video clip was an accurate example of the persona.  The band must have been really patient or needed the $$.  Then there was Earl, right?  You know even if Monroe really was that much of a jerk, and Earl spent time playing in his band, we still never heard Earl talk in a negative vein - typical Earl.

Roll model - l love that pun. Thanks.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 05/30/2013:  10:10:33

Monroe was a perfectionist, and he insisted that his group was HIS group. Something you will find in many groups and every genre of music. In general the ones who thought they were being "picked" on were the lazy guys whom he didn't feel were putting in the work they should. Yeah, a lot of musicians left feeling they were mistreated, but a lot of people have left groups led by untalented hacks feeling they were mistreated too.

I think most musicians knew that being in Monroe's band was valuable experience and promotion for their own careers. Earl got a 40 year career and stardom out of his couple years with Monroe.

kmwaters - Posted - 05/30/2013:  10:14:43

Point well taken.  You know Jimmy Martin had his detractors too, but the honest ones talk about his quest for perfection in the same way.  And those types aren't the easiest to be around all the time.  And if you are in the band, you are around all the time.  What is that thing about taking the good with the bad??

Doconc - Posted - 05/30/2013:  10:29:50

Didn't Bill sue someone, maybe Earl, over the use of the name "bluegrass" for his style of music? Over copyright infringement?

eagleisland - Posted - 05/30/2013:  10:30:38

There's an excellent bio of Monroe called "Can't You Hear Me Callin'" by Richard Smith.  It paints a very detailed portrait of a very complicated man.

Without any knowledge of the incident in question (not mentioning the banjo player's name), it's perfectly possible that this happened, and it could have happened for a variety of reasons.  Leaving aside the fact that Monroe had a tendency to give the cold shoulder to musicians he disapproved of, there were times during his career that money was so tight that he'd basically find local pickup players for gigs - and then move on.

Roy5string - Posted - 05/30/2013:  10:32:57

To me the amount of players that went through his band says

a lot about the man.What other band leader in bluegrass has

had that many personnel changes?

Roy

kmwaters - Posted - 05/30/2013:  10:37:00

Yeah there was lots of turnover.  But then again many players moved around.  Just read a book on J.D. Crowe by the late Marty Godbey and it gave me perspective on that.  Good book - paperback - found it on Amazon - Crowe On The Banjo.

Rick Polston - Posted - 05/30/2013:  10:43:40

Here is an interesting clip

folkstreams.net/film,210

James Stiltner - Posted - 05/30/2013:  10:50:34

I never met Bill, but I always think of the line that was going around Nashville in the 80's/early 90's:

"Who is that?"

"Oh that's God, he thinks he's Bill Monroe!".

Banjophobic - Posted - 05/30/2013:  10:56:18

Bill was a human being, like the rest of us. He had his flaws, quirks and personality positives and negatives, just like everyone else. I find nothing useful or edifying in threads that seek to bash someones character, especially when its heresy and innuendo. And even if someone is getting the information firsthand as a band member, I find it distasteful and unprofessional to rant about it publicly. 

I prefer to appreciate his music and contributions....

Ebanjo - Posted - 05/30/2013:  10:57:25

Bill was a nice guy, but he was, as we call it here in the south, a bit backwards, not outgoing like his brother Charlie. It may have had something to do with Bill being cross eyed as a child and that people would make fun of him because of it.
Eric Ellis

5stringypsy - Posted - 05/30/2013:  11:00:48

A good friend of mine that I play with regularly, Wayne Jerolds, played fiddle and traveled with Bill. We were riding to a gig last week and one of the other guys asked him this, "what was Bill like, was he hard to work for?" Wayne said he was fine to work for, he just expected you to do your part and not to be drunk high and messin around and to act right and that Bill was constantly working on something, something new.. He said they'd be waiting to go on and he would be working up a new song making everyone get it right , right before they went on. Sounds like to me from this account he was probably just really about what he was doing and that can come off as being a jerk to thin skinned sensitive types but it is just what it is, intensity and focus on your job. Quite a bit of the guys I work for are kinda like that, not real personable but if you want a straight on no nonsense approach about what you're doin that may be to be desired.  But I wasn't there and never met the man. Maybe he was a jerk, but I doubt it. It takes all kinds :)

jimh269b - Posted - 05/30/2013:  11:21:27

Monroe search the festivals for musicans out jamming,and I grew up around around Kenny baker,kenny and I were jamming,bill walked up and asked me if I would be interested in playing in his bans,i told him no.im make more money working in the coal mines,well,after he left Kenny told me when you was,nt doing a show, you worked on his farm,that sure was not for me,any way I had a lot of respect for him and his music

Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 05/30/2013:  11:55:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by kmwaters

 

I saw a video where he said something like "we're going to do a number featuring the 5 string" or something to that effect and never mentioned the banjo player's name.  Am I reading too much into this, or was he really that self-absorbed?  Sometimes I see him as one of those "It's all about me" types.  

---

He was complex, like most other people.  He could be charming and outgoing when he felt like it, or deliver a shattering tongue-lashing in very few words if you rubbed him the wrong way.

At one of the Golden West Bluegrass festivals in Norco CA many years ago he politely asked if he could sit in and play with a group of teenaged kids who were jamming around a campfire late one night, and, as you would expect, word spread...

Fifteen minutes later there were a couple of hundred people watching from out in the shadows when a middle-aged banjo player -who should have known better- walked up and just began playing along in the middle of a tune that was already in progress.   He played continuous lead banjo right over the vocals and the other instrumental breaks, and when the tune ended he stuck his hand out towards Monroe and said, "My name is Mitch _______, and I've been playing banjo for 25 years!"

Monroe looked at the hand -which he didn't take- and said, "Shouldn't you be better?"

~Pete

Fred Frank - Posted - 05/30/2013:  11:59:35

When the band members in our group are introduced, I'm sure the audience thinks my name is: "Are you in tune yet?"

Edited by - Fred Frank on 05/30/2013 12:02:56

myfavefive - Posted - 05/30/2013:  12:11:44

The video mentioned in the original post may not represent the typical pattern of a Monroe show. There would come a time in nearly every show where he would feature each of his individual players; something like "..now it's worked it's way around to feature a good banjo number from Butch Robins who comes from the great state of Virginia...what have you got picked out tonight for us... Dear Old Dixe?... That's a good number...". Same thing when it came Kenny Baker's turn and the same when it was time to feature a solo vocal number fro his guitar player like Wayne Lewis...he'd say what state they were from and their name and the featured number. It's all part of a well paced show to feature Bill's music in a complete show format..."...now it's time to gather around the Bluegrass Boys quartet for a sacred number... ", etc.

Bill had to front his band through some pretty lean times and he didn't have some if the good fortune that F&S had with their big Martha White endorsement that helped keep a stable band employed during all the late 50s. Yes he was hard headed and could be pretty demanding and stuck in his ways but his fortitude is what played such a big role in making this music still vibrant today. Just look at the respect and resume value all the ex-Bluegrass Boys have because of that experience.

markjr - Posted - 05/30/2013:  12:34:52

Hello, I met Bill Monroe Twice, they were a year apart and had a picture made with him. He was as nice and friendly to me as he was with the people there that he knew. When we got there I was telling my brother that we probably wouldn't even get close to him. Then after we got in, he was walking around the hallway talking to people like he was there to see a show. The band was out visiting everybody too. I'm sure that he had his off days with the crowds and schedules. As far as being a "perfectionist", yeah, Id say that, after all, He was "BILL MONROE, THE FATHER OF BLUEGRASS"!, That's a big title to hold. Rest in Peace Bill.

jwold - Posted - 05/30/2013:  12:43:26

x2 on the Richard Smith bio book. I did have the priviledge of interviewing Mr. Monroe on his bus for the Oregon Bluegrass Association many years ago. I was really nervous, just a dumb kid still and didn't do nearly enough research ahead of time so he was pretty quiet and didn't say much, not much more than a few words per answer (no internet yet!). He was friendly and polite but didn't make much eye contact and looked away most of the time, he was in his 80's by then and kind of scary looking as I recall without his hat on. The ice broke a bit when he was telling me about how much he appreciated all the people telling him that they had been praying for him after his heart attack, that meant a lot to him.

James Stiltner - Posted - 05/30/2013:  12:53:57

According to Bob Black's book, Bill once told Bob "All you banjo players are just show-offs".

For more information on Bill, read Butch Robins' book. Alot of interesting stuff about Bill.

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 05/30/2013:  12:56:09

I got to hang out with Bill in London for a day in the early 70's. He was a real gentleman, very gracious. Some of my musical heroes didn't turn out to be nice people, but they were still great musicians. Bill was very nice to me (and a great musician) and that's how I want to remember him.

Edited by - Laurence Diehl on 05/30/2013 12:56:59

merwin - Posted - 05/30/2013:  12:56:56

I agree with Banjophonic too! "I appreciate his music and and contribution"



If>>>>>>>>>>>>William "Bill" Smith Monroe had not been determined, dedicated, sincere, none of us would be talking about Bluegrass Music, much less playing it. He overcame personal obstacles in life at an early age and invented the music we call Bluegrass. Not only that, he overcame every other gender of music (Elvis & The Beetles & others) to survive in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. Since his death on September 09, 1996, his music continues to thrive even though many are "progressing" the style. Why anyone would voice a criticism is not helpful.

Edited by - merwin on 05/30/2013 12:58:14

pick it - Posted - 05/30/2013:  13:29:09

I have jammed with Bill many times,I have helped him find his mules on one occasion been around him held THE MANDOLIN for him, played his festivals,I found him to be dedicated to the  music he invented,a gentleman hard worker,and always ready to help someone.I seen him let people in free that had no money.I'll tell you this ,when he walked into a room,all heads turned to him,when he spoke everyone listened,much of the time he was a man of few words,....most great people are like that.did I say he love little children ,he would give them a quarter,thats why you find quarters on his headstone I laid one there once upon a time.

banjo bill-e - Posted - 05/30/2013:  13:31:16

----" Kenny told me when you was,nt doing a show, you worked on his farm"

Rual Yarbrough told me the same thing. He was very proud of his time with Monroe and glad that he had done it. But he sure didn't want to do it again! But in retrospect, I'll bet that there is many a player today that would be glad to have put in some field work if they could only say that they had once been one of Bill Monroe's Bluegrass Boys. Not too many chances in life to become legendary.  

James Stiltner - Posted - 05/30/2013:  13:39:33

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjo bill-e

 

----" Kenny told me when you was,nt doing a show, you worked on his farm"

Rual Yarbrough told me the same thing. He was very proud of his time with Monroe and glad that he had done it. But he sure didn't want to do it again! But in retrospect, I'll bet that there is many a player today that would be glad to have put in some field work if they could only say that they had once been one of Bill Monroe's Bluegrass Boys. Not too many chances in life to become legendary.  

---

Count me in! I'd been glad to do some field work if I could've played the banjo in Bill's band.

pick it - Posted - 05/30/2013:  13:42:54

 I believe it was  6 months   with him and you received a" bluegrass boys" belt buckle

arnie fleischer - Posted - 05/30/2013:  14:05:44

I don't think an isolated video clip offers any insight into what Monroe was like as a person.  There is, however, a fair amount of written material that does.  In addition to the three books mentioned earlier, the list includes "Can't You Hear Me Calling" by Gene Lowinger, "The Bill Monroe Reader" edited by Tom Ewing, "The Bluegrass Reader" edited by Thomas Goldsmith, "Howdy Boys, Howdy" compiled by Doug Hutchens, "Bluegrass, A History" by Neil Rosenberg, "The Music of Bill Monroe" by Neil Rosenberg and Charles Wolfe, "Bossman" by Sam Charters, the notes to the multi-volume Bear family boxed sets of Monroe's music and the notes to the MCA 4-disc set "The Music of Bill Monroe from 1936 to 1994."

As for the turnover in the personnel of The Blue Grass Boys, that is the rule rather than the exception with touring bands, and it's especially true for the extremely small number of bands that were or have been in existence as long as Monroe's band.  Look at the changing cast in Doyle Lawson's band Quicksilver since he started it.  A strange consequence of this turnover is that every year Bluegrass Unlimited runs a number of festival ads with band photos that are years out of date, even to the point of including band members who have died.

budbennett - Posted - 05/30/2013:  14:34:55

I have been working on filming Butch Robins give a lecture on the history of Blue Grass music and in it he talks a lot about Bill Monroe.  It will be ready for viewing soon.  if you all watch that you will learn a heck of a lot about Bill- I guarantee it!

kmwaters - Posted - 05/30/2013:  14:46:19

Good point made by John Boulding - take the high road and dispense with the bashing.  I guess I might have opened the proverbial worm can by starting the post.  I was just looking for a little insight into one of the true bluegrass legends.  But yes, we are all human and we all have our imperfections by definition.  Thanks John for pointing out the downsides to some of these topics and discussions.

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 05/30/2013:  15:57:05

I think that you would have to know the country and the culture/people to understand..

Bill was exactly like my grandfathers, uncles, father and most of the older generation males..

He/ they have been described as a "mountain Patriarch"... The head or leader of the family..

Made the critical decisions and kept everybody in line.. "what mr X said" is how it went.. And they were respected and revered for it.. In those days anyone who kept a large family fed and respectabl, directed most of the work..( For Mr. Monroe, a band or work crew?)... deserved their position... And you could tell by the "no nonsense" attitude and bearing of these Patriarchs..

Even in their last days people would still address them by "Mr".. Only like elders would use their first names..

Edited by - Kenneth Logsdon on 05/30/2013 16:04:48

mrbook - Posted - 05/30/2013:  17:45:07

There are a lot of colorful stories about Monroe, and I'm sure most of them are true. It shows the kind of person that created the music - it's powerful music, and I think most of those early pioneers had powerful personalities. I think a lot of stories are hilarious, like the time when Kenny Baker finally left the Bluegrass Boys. I have one live CD where Monroe introduces "Rocky Road Blues " by saying to the audience, "Now this will show you we have a better bass player than you thought we had." I laugh every time I hear it, but I'm glad I'm not the bass player.

pick it - Posted - 05/30/2013:  18:13:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by budbennett

 

I have been working on filming Butch Robins give a lecture on the history of Blue Grass music and in it he talks a lot about Bill Monroe.  It will be ready for viewing soon.  if you all watch that you will learn a heck of a lot about Bill- I guarantee it!

---

Did Butch tell you the story of Bill looking at the cattle in the truck and one doing a number all over him?

scaggs7 - Posted - 05/30/2013:  18:17:03

A friend , now gone, played fiddle for Bill nine yrs and also said when you were not playing you worked on the farm. He also said he learned more form Bill than anyone else. He never complained about the farm work

Ukeridge - Posted - 05/30/2013:  18:33:56

It's perhaps worth pointing out that there are innumerable live shows available of Monroe on this old internet. Having listened to dozens, I can report that he usually introduces songs featuring "the five string" with the name of the picker, often several times a show. 

biganvils - Posted - 05/30/2013:  18:55:51

That was an awesome video. thanks for posting Rick.

dmiller - Posted - 05/30/2013:  19:42:52

This is an entertaining thread!  Bill could be both "crusty and egotistical", or "kind and endearing".  I guess it depended on what kind of mood he was in at the time.  Yup - - he was human just like all the rest of us so there were good days and bad days.  I saw him often at Bean Blossom (throughout the summer season as well as at the festival back in the 1970's), and he would often say "And now our banjo picker would like to pick Bluegrass Breakdown for you" (or something to that effect without naming the banjo picker).

Then there were other times when he'd take the time to introduce each member of the band as well.  I remember once I was asked to play rhythm guitar for a band I didn't know (whose guitar picker hadn't shown up yet at the festival), and I saw Bill walking in the camping area later on so I asked him for a pass (for one day only) for my (then) wife to get in for free the next day, since I'd done a set on stage for his afternoon audience (and no pay).

He wasn't too happy about signing a ticket for the "free" day for her, but he did.  Back then the price for week-day  admission was 3 dollars, and I had to argue with him to get that.  On the other hand, later on in his life he showed up in Bayfield Wisconsin to do a show at the Big Blue Tent (a couple of years before he passed away), and he couldn't have been more friendly and going out of his way to "meet and greet" any and all who were there and picking a tune with those who were jamming there on the grounds.

And  - - (as Arnie Fleischer said) the turnover of Quicksilver was pretty extensive also.

I remember seeing Doyle with (what became) the original III Tyme Out Band here in Mn.

A few months later, they (Russel/ Ray/ Scott) all left him and formed their own band.

I guess some Bluegrass band leaders can be hard to work for from time to time, eh?  

 

f5loar - Posted - 05/30/2013:  21:13:24

I saw Monroe live dozens of times in single concerts, festivals and multi-group line ups and also have listened to some 100 taped shows from the 50's to the 90's and each and everytime he would introduce the band members.  Usually right after the opening number.  So if he said lets do a banjo number or fiddle number he had already introduce the members.  No need in repeating yourself.  A few times he would introduce them as their featured number would come around.  Now if it was a short 2 or 3 song deal when he simply did not have the time to introduce everyone like in TV or movie clips.

dmiller - Posted - 05/30/2013:  21:15:11

If I recollect correct - -  he (Bill) always introduced Kenny.  

bensonius - Posted - 05/30/2013:  22:17:25

I thought this video was almost funny in the way that everyone is talking about other people (not themselves) and the good times they had and poking light fun at each other. Then it gets to Bill and he just says "I remember the the first time I got up on the Grand Ol Opry, I got 3 encores and did it like it was nothing, no big deal". And that's it, no light hearted story about other folks, just how good he was:

youtube.com/watch?v=fXUPLAcE-tU

​Not that he was being a jerk or anything, heck it could have just been nerves and that's all he could think to say. It just sounds a little cocky, but come to think of it, it's probably something I'd say, being the introvert that I am out of not knowing what else to say.

Edited by - bensonius on 05/30/2013 22:20:16

bAJNo - Posted - 05/31/2013:  05:45:49

I really like this article by Jens Kruger about Bill Monroe, it's a great read and says a lot about the man. 

krugerbrothers.com/archives/3691

warpdrive - Posted - 05/31/2013:  09:38:50

I went to see bill Monroe in manhattan ks back in 89 or 90, got there when the bus was pulling in hrs early and got to hang out with the band, tater, blake all the guys were nice as could be, just before the show started, they told me and my wife and girl where he was at in the back and to go see him, my girls were very little, and he gave each of them a quarter(got pics of it) I ask him through the years, if he had a favorite banjo picker, he said in that high pitch wisper voice he had, " you know, I always liked sonny Osborne, man that guy could throw a baseball" I didn't know the jest of the comment until I in later yrs befriended sonny and he enlightened me about the fact he was 14 or 15 when he went to work for bill, and bill really liked his ability to throw a baseball really hard and far. the man seemed very nice and yes a gentleman, but then again, how often do we as regular folk get to really meet and know our favorite entertainers? I think the opinions of bill are best left to those who actually knew and worked with him! I did work with josh and Kenny several times in later years, and without ever asking Kenny about bill, we were talking once and someone mentioned bill and Kenny just got this real distant look and said, "bill could be tough" that's the only comment I ever heard him say, that and the fact the bill didn't let them do any flatt and Scruggs stuff, and I would think that how much of himself he showed to people, probably depended a lot on how he was approached by people, so opinions are going to vary!

banjerman - Posted - 05/31/2013:  10:07:02

 It would be hard to judge Bill with todays yardstick. He came from a different time and he was a product of his age. I loved his music but he sure wadnt coming to Thanksgiving dinner at my house.

Wally

DHutchens - Posted - 05/31/2013:  18:37:57

Too late in the evening for me to comment.........BUT I WILL....... 

fatdaddyo6 - Posted - 05/31/2013:  19:28:21

Maybe some of you guys that never saw him live or knew him could
let us know how you feel about John Lennon or Elvis personality specifics.
My self, I know I'm a jerk ... Trust me

Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 05/31/2013:  19:34:38

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjerman

 

 It would be hard to judge Bill with todays yardstick. He came from a different time and he was a product of his age. I loved his music but he sure wadnt coming to Thanksgiving dinner at my house.

Wally

---

Particularly if you happen to have a pretty wife or daughter...

~Pete

banjerman - Posted - 05/31/2013:  20:33:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by Deaf Lester Crawdad

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjerman

 

 It would be hard to judge Bill with todays yardstick. He came from a different time and he was a product of his age. I loved his music but he sure wadnt coming to Thanksgiving dinner at my house.

Wally

---

Particularly if you happen to have a pretty wife or daughter...

~Pete

---

  I heard that!

Randy Escobedo - Posted - 05/31/2013:  21:51:45

I first met Bill in 1979 after playing for just a few years. He would play here in the midwest often. He was a very nice man and always treated me well. We hit it off real good and he became friends of ours. We always had a great time when we would see each other at festivals as the years went by. I also had the honor of picking banjo for him many times. To also pick with with Tater Tate and Wayne Lewis was a thrill for me. He had a funny wit to him. He would always remind folks he was The Father Of Bluegrass and was proud of his music. He always spoke highly of Lester and Earl when I was around him. He told me about how Charlie and he worked in Iowa during the 1930's. How he met his wife. About the times he used to dance professional and never got knocked down during a fight. He was a strong man in his young days. He came from a time when folks worked hard. He told me many stories I have never forgot.  Anytime I got to pick with him he kept his musicians on their toes ready for action. He was a great musician and teacher. Earl always had some great tales to tell me of working with Bill. He wanted his band to always give their best. I remember one time he had his Lloyd Loar mandolin just sitting on a picnic table at a festival. It was time to eat. He said now watch my mandolin boy...I'll be back. He often would use the expression boy. It was never meant to be in a bad way. Bill came back after a few minutes with his plate full for lunch. Of course I let nobody touch his instrument. I am so lucky to have known him and I would not trade anything for those times. I remember the last time I seen him and picked. Age had snuck up on him. I admit that I was somewhat worried for him. When he got on stage it was like he was 50 again. I picked Shuckin' The Corn and the Bluegrass Breakdown that night. He played a great show and even danced some. I did not worry after that. The last thing he told me was to never forget him and to tell Bob Black never forget the good old days! I feel that I have been blessed to do these things. A remarkable man indeed. 

Edited by - Randy Escobedo on 05/31/2013 22:01:57

Bill Dancing-1995

Bill and Randy-1984

Picking With Bill Monroe-1980

dawgdoc - Posted - 05/31/2013:  22:40:19

Oh yeah, Bill was a mean one to me.  I met him the first time whilst standing at a urinal side by side at a high school in Missouri.  I sorta got the fan complex and asked to shake his hand and get an autograph.  His response was: 'do you mind if I wash my hands first?'.    

He was nothing but wonderful and I asked if he would do me the greatest favor ever, say hi to my Dad.  He said 'point me the way'.