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Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 06/04/2013: 19:05:26
quote:
Originally posted by pick it
Pete you have gone to a new low on this forum, to associate Bill Monroe in a moment of alleged bad judgment along with such a tyrant as a proven cold blooded killer as Pol Pot. I've got to hand it to you on this one. thank God I am not programmed like you. accusations without proof will not convict .
I f it don't fit you must acquit,: Johnny Cochran
I've said it before and there's no doubt you'll give cause for it to be said again: there's something seriously wrong with you.
Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 06/04/2013: 19:20:46
quote:
Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom
You have told this story many times on line. Bill lived a long and public life. I have heard no one chime in and say this happened to us also. I had seen Monroe hug girls and he gave them a squeeze with his arms around their shoulders and I will say he enjoyed the ladies. But maybe there was an inadvertent touch, maybe there was a lapse in judgment or maybe there were people involved prone to conflict. What ever the truth of this occurrence I do not believes it warrants the character assassination you have put on the man.
Sheesh! "Character assassination"? There speaks a man who simply has trouble dealing with a truth he doesn't care for. There was no "inadvertent touch": he put his arm around her, cupped her right breast in his right hand, and darned near lifted her off of her feet. I don't know of anyone who could do that "inadvertently".
I was there. I saw it happen, not 20 feet away. The girl in question played banjo in our band "Foxfire", and she was not a happy camper after her encounter with Bill.
Pluckin Mutha - Posted - 06/04/2013: 20:31:43
I've seen this lie repeated several times over the last 4 years. I've atributed it to projection of one's own wishful thinking, and a corruption of the real truth. We've all seen examples of people repeating something false long enough that they begin it to believe it to be true.
I have personal knowledge of Bill's beliefs ( which I will not disclose as they reflect on the dead, and others living) to know that this would not be something he would do.
I would have done this in jest, and may have with close friends and family, but I don't believe that Bill is guilty in this matter.
Mutha
Edited by - Pluckin Mutha on 06/04/2013 20:33:18
From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 06/04/2013: 20:37:05
I know people that knew Monroe very well. They are family people and had young daughters. Mr. Monroe was always a good southern gentlemen to them. They had him over to their house and had tremendous trust and faith in him.
Many on this thread have said bad things about Monroe and they never met him. One thing we can know for sure from this thread is that there are people that enjoy hearing gossip, repeating gossip, and trying to bring people down. They enjoy believing the worst about people: especially achievers. I have always thought that the wanting to tear down mentality came from people that didn't want to make the effort or didn't have the nerve to elevate themselves. They know they will never achieve and want to bring the ones that do down to their level. Makes them feel better about themselves.
Ken
Edited by - From Greylock to Bean Blossom on 06/04/2013 20:38:35
Hankon5 - Posted - 06/04/2013: 21:43:03
I really like these positive comments and stories of Bill. It brings back history and the love of Bluegrass to the forefront! I don't appreciate any arrows or slingings of mud on this web site or any place else for that matter. Bill, Lester, Earl and their bands have energized our American Heritage and given us the batons to carry the music called Bluegrass forward. They have set the table that we eat off of.........Be kind and appreciative of what they did in magically creating a genre of music that may never be forgotten......We should be applauding their musical abilities and leave the bashing to those who live to do just that!!! We are better than that, here on this special website which encourages and tells stories that uplift our wonderful music that we play. I thank all here that have helped me learn to play and have given me glimpses of how important the contributions were by those masters we try to emulate in our playing. I respect those who truly are in search for bettering themselves in music and teaching others this music so many of us love. If I could have spent some time with any of these maestros, I would have NEVER forgotten the precious time!!! RESPECT is a big word and bestowed upon those who deserve it......!
dmiller - Posted - 06/04/2013: 22:24:00
Well - - I liked Bill, even though I had that argument with him that one time for a 3 dollar "free pass" for the wife I had back then. Whenever he got on stage, he delivered, and in spades. I guess he had flaws in his personal life (as do each and everyone of us), but that was something I've always chosen to overlook (being imperfect myself).
The one undeniable fact about both Bill (and his brother Birch) is that they both could hear a dollar bill drop on a shag carpet rug, and grab it and squeeze it for all it was worth. 
Here's a picture of the "Old Barn" there at Bean Blossom where many, many, many concerts were played during the summer months there in Brown County Indiana.
Concerts were given there every weekend during the summer. A veritable
"who's who" of up and coming bluegrass artists played there back in the 1970's.
If you went to those concerts and if it was raining outside, you had to get there
early to find the "dry" seats". Birch and Bill owned that property, and the
ONLY part of that barn that had a waterproof ceiling was the stage area.
The entire audience seating area was "hit or miss" because they wouldn't
spend the money to get the entire barn roofed properly. I guess they figured
"If we pick, they will come. And be wet or dry".
The man definitely had deficiencies in his life. Who doesn't? I've heard all the
stories mentioned here (and quite a few more too), but give it a rest, eh?
The man has passed on and he left a legacy. What'll your legacy be?
Bill Rogers - Posted - 06/04/2013: 23:37:09
The posts here remind me of the Indian tale of the blind men and the elephant, each "seeing" the elephant according to which part of the animal he'd happened upon. It's clear that Monroe was far from perfect in his dealings with others, but that many found him to be a good man in their experiences. Neither view surprises me, and neither seems to me a cause for attacking each other.
Edited by - Bill Rogers on 06/04/2013 23:57:59
pick it - Posted - 06/05/2013: 04:15:16
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rogers
The posts here remind me of the Indian tale of the blind men and the elephant, each "seeing" the elephant according to which part of the animal he'd happened upon. It's clear that Monroe was far from perfect in his dealings with others, but that many found him to be a good man in their experiences. Neither view surprises me, and neither seems to me a cause for attacking each other.
no nothing here is clear about Monroe , just hearsay,that don't hold water.there has been good and bad said,thats when a thing called RESPECT comes into play . now you being a judge here should know the difference.
banjoy - Posted - 06/05/2013: 04:42:44
Life never dealt me the opportunities to meet most of these people, but I enjoy hearing these stories about their humanity and I have no doubt in my mind, I could have gotten along just fine with these guys. I'm just thankful they were real human beings, I never looked at them as gods so never looked to them for perfection, just humanity, great music, and sharing their very selves with us is more than good enough for me.
Ron C - Posted - 06/05/2013: 07:03:07
We have our cultural heroes, the people we put up on a pedestal. There have been such people in my life, Bill Monroe being one. Because they were creative, because they were innovators, because they brought so much joy to the world does not mean they are gods or angels. They are, invariably, people. People have personality flaws and exhibit sometimes unique and even unflattering behavior at times. Bill Monroe is no different. His brilliance and talent brought us an entire genre of music. He brought us Earl Scruggs. Our world would have been less without him. But perfect? No. No-one is.
I will love him for who he was and what he did related to Bluegrass music. He will be in my thoughts every time I hear our music, every time I pick up my banjo. I remain in awe of his achievements in music.
I will not worship him or make him out to be anything more than a remarkably creative human being. What about his failings, and he had some? Who am I to judge? I've acted in certain ways during my life that I am not at all proud of so I won't judge. I will focus on the overwhelmingly positive contributions Bill Monroe made.
Ron
steve davis - Posted - 06/05/2013: 07:08:55
Nobody is all good or all bad.
wrangler - Posted - 06/05/2013: 11:40:27
quote:
Originally posted by Ron C
quote:
Originally posted by wrangler
This is a funny interview with Bill Monroe and Lester Flat.
hangoutstorage.com/jukebox.asp...D%3D30869
That was hilarious.
The dates and ages mentioned during the "interview" conflicted with the date Flatt died, so I investigated around the net, looking for more info and found a treasure trove on a Mandolin site. Check out the dates given at the end of the interview. Lester had been dead for some time when this was recorded. Scruggs was NEVER in the Nashville Grass. In the interview, "Flatt" says he is 77. He was born in 1914, so the recording would have been done in 1991. Lester died in 1979 at the age of 65.
Duncan not only has Monroe's voice down to a 'T', he has all the mannerisms including the whistling when he was angry.
Ron
Glen Duncan was doing Monroe, Ronnie McCoury as the Disc Jockey and Stub, Flatt's old bus driver was doing Flatt, according to what I found.
I am sorry that I didn't make my post clear. This mp3 file was a comedy routine NOT a real interview.
Gymbal31 - Posted - 06/06/2013: 15:49:05
There was an interview with a banjo player in Banjo Newsletter about two years ago. I can't remember the player's name, but he had played with Bill Monroe, I want to say in the early sixties. The player told a story of being on the same bill with Flatt & Scruggs at the Opry. Bill would slip out for coffee before the show and the player would go over to Earl's dressing room and ask questions about banjo playing. Earl would happily give him pointers. One evening, Bill came back a little early and saw the two banjo players together. He gave his guy a dirty look as he went by. Earl said, "You better get in there."
When the player went back to Bill, Bill told him, "I don't want you hangin' around with that Earl Scruggs." He tried to tell Bill that Earl was helping him be a better banjo player for the Bluegrass Boys. Bill said, "I don't care. It doesn't look right."
I think some of the attitude toward Bill Monroe comes from stories like this one. Earl was well loved by everyone. Whether the so-called animosity between Monroe and Flatt & Scruggs was real or anecdotal or somewhere in between, the stories remain.
If anyone knows the banjo player's name I'm referring to, please post it. I got rid of most of my old Banjo Newsletters or else I'd go look it up.
The Old Timer - Posted - 06/06/2013: 16:28:56
Personally, I only ever observed "good" things about Monroe, in person. Some were quite "odd", to me as a young Yankee boy who never duked it out in "old Kentucky" farms, or East Chicago oil refineries, or traveling the country.
I was fortunate enough to be taken to Monroe's house/cabin on the day of his 55th anniversay on the Opry and we spent several hours just hanging out with him. My friends had been there before and were at ease, but respectful. I was nervous as a whore in church. But Bill was extremely hospitable to me, invited me to roam the house and look at his memorabilia. He made me coffee!! He liked that I was interested especially in the Monroe Brothers. He walked around outside and proudly told us about his "pullets" which he threw walnuts/hickory nuts, etc. to. In the kitchen again he'd point them out every time they walked by the window.
In all this, he reminded me so much of the old man who lived across the road from my house when I was a little kid. This neighbor was an old farmer, carpenter, groundsman, school bus driver, man-of-the-country or whatever from WAY BACK. He and Bill both projected that same attitude of being a really great neighbor.
Things livened up a bit when Monroe called his driver to come get him for the Opry, and he razzed that guy quite a bit about if he'd taken a good shower or not. His eyes were twinkling at this "joke".
When his driver got there, the driver helped dress Bill in his navy blue suit for the Opry. My friend volunteered to shine up Bill's dress shoes. All very matter of fact, with light conversation, while I just sat there stunned.
When Bill left (he told us to stay at the house as long as we wanted) he shook my hand warmly, without doing that typical "strong man contest" that was his habit when greeting other musicians, and he said to my face very softly, "you come back now, and be my friend, and we'll talk about the old days". That really moved me.
We lef soon, got Papa John's pizza and watched Bill on the TNN live broadcast of the Opry.
I've seen plenty of Bill's shows up close and personal, and have been an emcee to introduce him a few times. Unfailingly professional and polite, even if a man of few words. I read Pete Rowan's comments about even in his advanced age, Monroe would "puff himself up" to full height and stature as he went onto a stage. I saw that for sure one time at a festival where he was so sick with a cold it was pitiful. Backstage these crowds of people were pressing various unidentified medicines into his hands claiming they would help, and HE TOOK THEM ALL! And as sick as he was, he LOOKED fine when he strode onto the stage. Only his voice gave him away. He sang the Muleskinner in E! He was TOUGH.
Butch Robins' and Bob Black's books fill in a lot of details. Even the earlier bluegrass histories do a remarkable job of describing Bill's character. There's no question he WAS a character! Also the recent book about the history of Bean Blossom and how Bill and Birch ran, or actually mis-managed the place so bad for so long. It's very revealing about his character.
And yes, I've heard titillating stories too, from people who were witnesses. No worse than MANY other heroes of our culture!
pick it - Posted - 06/06/2013: 17:36:31
Dick that was a very fine story, thanks for sharing that personal time with him,I can just see Bill in my mind doing those things you described.
Hankon5 - Posted - 06/06/2013: 19:56:41
Nice story....I am grinnin' like crazy right now..as if I was there.. I believe in the good of a person...those qualities built that the foundation of our country. 
Toontune - Posted - 06/07/2013: 19:57:29
quote:
Originally posted by Deaf Lester Crawdad
quote:
Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom
You have told this story many times on line. Bill lived a long and public life. I have heard no one chime in and say this happened to us also. I had seen Monroe hug girls and he gave them a squeeze with his arms around their shoulders and I will say he enjoyed the ladies. But maybe there was an inadvertent touch, maybe there was a lapse in judgment or maybe there were people involved prone to conflict. What ever the truth of this occurrence I do not believes it warrants the character assassination you have put on the man.
Sheesh! "Character assassination"? There speaks a man who simply has trouble dealing with a truth he doesn't care for. There was no "inadvertent touch": he put his arm around her, cupped her right breast in his right hand, and darned near lifted her off of her feet. I don't know of anyone who could do that "inadvertently".
I was there. I saw it happen, not 20 feet away. The girl in question played banjo in our band "Foxfire", and she was not a happy camper after her encounter with Bill.
Folks, I might suggest you all read Murphy Hicks Henry's terrific new book, "Pretty Good for a Girl," which is a thorough history of women in bluegrass. Pay attention to Alison Brown's account of when she went to Monroe's hotel room thinking it was an audition. Big Mon had other ideas. There are other stories out there as well. For my part, love the man's music, appreciate what he did to get it out there, and consider him to be a flawed and failed man when it came to his personal life. It's not all or nothing.
larry p - Posted - 06/08/2013: 09:44:46
Howdy Friends, Howdy!
My attention was drawn to this thread by a couple of Friends recently who know that I knew Mr. Monroe pretty well, in part because I first met him back in the late 1970's, played the 'Opry' with him on occasion over the years, did some studio work with him, and practically Lived with him for the better part of the last year of his life. Purposely I've restrained myself from joining the conversation out of Respect for the many Friends we have, like Doug Hutchins for instance - who knew Bill longer and most likely far better than I ever did. Nevertheless I'll submit the following out of respect for the Friends who asked that I review the thread and comment.
To address the original poster's question, "was he really that self-absorbed?", I'd say that to those who didn't really know Bill and his history personally - he may well have appeared that way at times. Personally, I came to realize that his mannerisms and expressions that could well create this or a similar impression had much more to do with a steadfast resolve to be a survivalist that simply being 'self-absorbed'. In part I'd venture to guess that much of this dates back to his childhood (giving a listen to John Hartford's tribute to Bill, 'The Cross Eyed Child' would explain this far better than I could). Then there's the experiences he had with his band/bands from the beginning: Clyde Moody, Lester Flatt, Earl Scruggs, Chubby Wise, Benny Martin, Jimmy Martin, Sonny Osborne, Peter Rowan, Del McCoury, Bill Keith, and Kenny Baker - to name just a few, left Bill's band and went on to forge careers for themselves. Early on, it became apparent that in many ways being a 'Bluegrass Boy' served to launch new careers. Not only were these extraordinary musicians/artist LEAVING Bill - their new careers in many ways wound up being competition in the 'Bluegrass market': To put it in our customary hillbilly terminology: For Bill, it was a 'fly or flop' deal: Even the most patient and enlightened of men would recognize that often he and his band amounted to 'basic training' for artist. As if that wasn't hard enough to bear - these same people then in turn became competition for a share of what he correctly or erroneously viewed as 'his market'. 20,30,40 years of that would make an indelible impression on most anyone. Of course many, maybe even most of these artist did not leave Bill's band and go on to forge their own careers with being hurtful or disrespectful to Bill as a motive - they, like himself - were only doing what came natural for them to do - much like he himself did when he and Charlie Monroe parted company as a duo.
As for all the other stuff about his 'womanizing' and such - of course there's varying amounts of Truth in many stories, and as angry and frustrated as I myself could get with Bill at times, I've found it most prudent to recognize that this is a man who spent the most of his adult life on the road, away from home, often being the center of attention - even the subject of a form of idolatry by many, and at the same time lacking in the traditional home and family lives enjoyed by most - in a word, often lonely. How could a person deal with such circumstances? How would I? I don't know...I can't imagine what it would be like to be 'on the road' most of the time with no one to go back home to on a daily basis, being the subject of adulation from crowds of people you don't know for the most part, having the occasional Lady take an interest in you to the point that she's willing to provide company and companionship for a time - and then it's on to the next town and time to do it all over again, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade, and all the while - living in a prism in the minds and imaginations of most, and the ONLY thing they have to evaluate your life by is merely a snapshot in time that in no wise adequately represents the person you really are. For example: for years before I met Sonny Osborne and Raymond Fairchild, I heard stories about how frightening and short-tempered they could be at times, but AFTER we met and became Friends - I found in both of these great men and artist True Friendship that has lasted now for several decades. The last time I saw Raymond, we embraced when we met, and embraced when we parted company...The last time I saw Sonny, we did the same thing, and even danced a few steps together at 'The Station Inn' and laughed our head's off about it and all the quizzical looks we got from people there...In essence there's nothing mean about them - I Love them both like Brothers...I'm sorry to say that there's been a few folks I've met along the way during my days 'on the road' that did not get my best reaction in a given time and place - being on the 'road' is a hard life for the best and most tolerant of people. It's only because of the experiences I've had being 'on the road' that in some small measure I'm able to empathize a bit with Friends like Bill Monroe. Ordinarily I wouldn't say or do anything to hurt another person's feelings or show disrespect for a Lady, but 'back in the day' when I was 'on the road' and drinking heavily to go with it, I said and did some things I'd give ANYTHING to retract. Even though it's been YEARS since I've had a drink or imbibed in illegal drugs and carried a gun in my pocket - to this day we'll get emails etc from folks who will say, 'hey I met you here or there and you did such-and-such' - things that are completely foreign to me NOW, but to a I'm still the drunk, drugged up pistol packin' banjo pickin' hillbilly.
Anyway - I merely offer that to say, 'I can empathize' a bit with Bill, and I can testify to this on all things Holy: In the last year of Bill's life I bore witness to a transformation in him. I was there, at his house, on New Year's Day, when he was calling and receiving calls from many of his Friends and admirers . Eric Clapton called to wish him 'Happy New Years', and after he hung up he asked Ms Julia and I, "Uh...Do you all know a man named Eric Clapton? I don't believe I know that gentleman, but he's a mighty fine fellow - that he is...I just wish I could have understood everything he said." After Bill had made a bunch of calls, he said, "Well, I've called everybody I can think of to wish them a Happy New Year - don't you think that's alright?" We said, 'Yes sir, Mr. Bill - that's mighty fine! You've made a bunch of folks day today for sure.." He said, "Well that's fine...that's good...I think it's good for us to wish our Friends well on days like today...um - can you think of anything else I need to do or anybody we need to call before I go lay down?" Before I knew what was coming out of my mouth I said, "Yes sir Mr. Bill - I can think of somebody you might ought to call", and he said, "And now just who would that be?" (You would REALLY have to have known Bill and his unique way of speaking to fully appreciate some of this perhaps) - and I said, "You could call Jimmy Martin...I bet he'd be delighted to hear from you today." There was a long pause (those who know Bill can imagine), and he said, "I don't have his phone number", and I said, "Bill, it's 883-0334 (I STILL know it by heart!) - and as sure as I'm sitting here tapping this out - Bill called Jimmy Martin. Those who know ANYTHING about the history of these two men's relationship know that Bill calling Jimmy was a HUGE HUGE deal...Just a few years earlier, asking Bill to call Jimmy would have been like asking him to go sit in the pig pen with the hogs ...But his heart softened, his consciousness grew, and I personally got the feeling that I was experiencing the REAL Bill Monroe, without all the baggage, attitudes and emotions for the first time in the last year or so of his life.
Not only was he a tremendously talented and driven innovator and artist - Bill was a lot of fun, Loved to be outside, LOVED to be on his farm with the horses and cows and chickens and pigs, LOVED it when company came by to visit, and he could work that little puzzle they have at all the 'Cracker Barrells' and ACE IT EVERY TIME, and could entertain and amaze a person for hours with all the tricks and knots he could accomplish with a rope.
So my little sendoff to Bill would go something like this: 'Mighty fine Bill Monroe! You've done the very best job at being Bill Monroe that could possibly ever be done!! Come on back for an encore whenever you're ready!' Of course, if Butch Robbins has his way, if and when Bill comes back for his encore - he'll be a black girl playing the banjo, but there's not a doubt in my mind he'd do marvelous things no matter what shape or form he's in...(By the way - that's MY thumb pick that Butch put in Bill's casket, or at least that's what Uncle Butchiee came back and told us after Bill's service 
)
Thanks for wadin' through all this - my best goes out to all you Friends..lp
Flying Eagle - Posted - 06/08/2013: 09:58:22
Monroe liked the ladies... so what? Groping teenagers? Not cool... but if the gropee didn't make a big deal about it, no harm no foul I suppose. I've heard several stories about Monroe and his exploits in that regard. No surprise there... he was a professional musician. And back in his day, private issues tended to stay more private. What happened on the tour bus stayed on the tour bus.
As far as I'm concerned, the only person who had business delving into that aspect of his life was his wife... again, different times.
sfeatherston3 - Posted - 06/08/2013: 10:15:26
I watched a documentary titled Give Me the Banjo. Apparently when Earl left the band, Monroe told him that he (Earl) would never amount to anything, or something like that. Monroe might have been a musical visionary, but he certainly wasn't precognitive.
bubbalouie - Posted - 06/08/2013: 11:31:58
I'm proud I shook his hand!.
ACFairbanks - Posted - 06/08/2013: 12:58:23
quote:
Originally posted by Flying Eagle
Groping teenagers? Not cool... but if the gropee didn't make a big deal about it, no harm no foul I suppose.
Howdy,
With respect, the notion that the morality of such a situation is to be determined by the reaction of the victim causes me deep concern. (It's called "age of consent" for a reason.")
All the best,
A.C.
steve davis - Posted - 06/08/2013: 13:00:40
I'm glad to have seen him at Thomas Point Beach.
He mentioned something about lobsters being good.
I walked by the group as they were waiting to go on and mentioned something about a good looking banjo and was invited to pick one on it.
I did and it was a good one.
They were easy to get along with,imo.
Edited by - steve davis on 06/08/2013 13:01:50
ACFairbanks - Posted - 06/08/2013: 13:00:58
quote:
Originally posted by larry p
Howdy Friends, Howdy!
My attention was drawn to this thread by a couple of Friends recently who know that I knew Mr. Monroe pretty well, in part because I first met him back in the late 1970's, played the 'Opry' with him on occasion over the years, did some studio work with him, and practically Lived with him for the better part of the last year of his life. Purposely I've restrained myself from joining the conversation out of Respect for the many Friends we have, like Doug Hutchins for instance - who knew Bill longer and most likely far better than I ever did. Nevertheless I'll submit the following out of respect for the Friends who asked that I review the thread and comment.
To address the original poster's question, "was he really that self-absorbed?", I'd say that to those who didn't really know Bill and his history personally - he may well have appeared that way at times. Personally, I came to realize that his mannerisms and expressions that could well create this or a similar impression had much more to do with a steadfast resolve to be a survivalist that simply being 'self-absorbed'. In part I'd venture to guess that much of this dates back to his childhood (giving a listen to John Hartford's tribute to Bill, 'The Cross Eyed Child' would explain this far better than I could). Then there's the experiences he had with his band/bands from the beginning: Clyde Moody, Lester Flatt, Earl Scruggs, Chubby Wise, Benny Martin, Jimmy Martin, Sonny Osborne, Peter Rowan, Del McCoury, Bill Keith, and Kenny Baker - to name just a few, left Bill's band and went on to forge careers for themselves. Early on, it became apparent that in many ways being a 'Bluegrass Boy' served to launch new careers. Not only were these extraordinary musicians/artist LEAVING Bill - their new careers in many ways wound up being competition in the 'Bluegrass market': To put it in our customary hillbilly terminology: For Bill, it was a 'fly or flop' deal: Even the most patient and enlightened of men would recognize that often he and his band amounted to 'basic training' for artist. As if that wasn't hard enough to bear - these same people then in turn became competition for a share of what he correctly or erroneously viewed as 'his market'. 20,30,40 years of that would make an indelible impression on most anyone. Of course many, maybe even most of these artist did not leave Bill's band and go on to forge their own careers with being hurtful or disrespectful to Bill as a motive - they, like himself - were only doing what came natural for them to do - much like he himself did when he and Charlie Monroe parted company as a duo.
As for all the other stuff about his 'womanizing' and such - of course there's varying amounts of Truth in many stories, and as angry and frustrated as I myself could get with Bill at times, I've found it most prudent to recognize that this is a man who spent the most of his adult life on the road, away from home, often being the center of attention - even the subject of a form of idolatry by many, and at the same time lacking in the traditional home and family lives enjoyed by most - in a word, often lonely. How could a person deal with such circumstances? How would I? I don't know...I can't imagine what it would be like to be 'on the road' most of the time with no one to go back home to on a daily basis, being the subject of adulation from crowds of people you don't know for the most part, having the occasional Lady take an interest in you to the point that she's willing to provide company and companionship for a time - and then it's on to the next town and time to do it all over again, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade, and all the while - living in a prism in the minds and imaginations of most, and the ONLY thing they have to evaluate your life by is merely a snapshot in time that in no wise adequately represents the person you really are. For example: for years before I met Sonny Osborne and Raymond Fairchild, I heard stories about how frightening and short-tempered they could be at times, but AFTER we met and became Friends - I found in both of these great men and artist True Friendship that has lasted now for several decades. The last time I saw Raymond, we embraced when we met, and embraced when we parted company...The last time I saw Sonny, we did the same thing, and even danced a few steps together at 'The Station Inn' and laughed our head's off about it and all the quizzical looks we got from people there...In essence there's nothing mean about them - I Love them both like Brothers...I'm sorry to say that there's been a few folks I've met along the way during my days 'on the road' that did not get my best reaction in a given time and place - being on the 'road' is a hard life for the best and most tolerant of people. It's only because of the experiences I've had being 'on the road' that in some small measure I'm able to empathize a bit with Friends like Bill Monroe. Ordinarily I wouldn't say or do anything to hurt another person's feelings or show disrespect for a Lady, but 'back in the day' when I was 'on the road' and drinking heavily to go with it, I said and did some things I'd give ANYTHING to retract. Even though it's been YEARS since I've had a drink or imbibed in illegal drugs and carried a gun in my pocket - to this day we'll get emails etc from folks who will say, 'hey I met you here or there and you did such-and-such' - things that are completely foreign to me NOW, but to a I'm still the drunk, drugged up pistol packin' banjo pickin' hillbilly.
Anyway - I merely offer that to say, 'I can empathize' a bit with Bill, and I can testify to this on all things Holy: In the last year of Bill's life I bore witness to a transformation in him. I was there, at his house, on New Year's Day, when he was calling and receiving calls from many of his Friends and admirers . Eric Clapton called to wish him 'Happy New Years', and after he hung up he asked Ms Julia and I, "Uh...Do you all know a man named Eric Clapton? I don't believe I know that gentleman, but he's a mighty fine fellow - that he is...I just wish I could have understood everything he said." After Bill had made a bunch of calls, he said, "Well, I've called everybody I can think of to wish them a Happy New Year - don't you think that's alright?" We said, 'Yes sir, Mr. Bill - that's mighty fine! You've made a bunch of folks day today for sure.." He said, "Well that's fine...that's good...I think it's good for us to wish our Friends well on days like today...um - can you think of anything else I need to do or anybody we need to call before I go lay down?" Before I knew what was coming out of my mouth I said, "Yes sir Mr. Bill - I can think of somebody you might ought to call", and he said, "And now just who would that be?" (You would REALLY have to have known Bill and his unique way of speaking to fully appreciate some of this perhaps) - and I said, "You could call Jimmy Martin...I bet he'd be delighted to hear from you today." There was a long pause (those who know Bill can imagine), and he said, "I don't have his phone number", and I said, "Bill, it's 883-0334 (I STILL know it by heart!) - and as sure as I'm sitting here tapping this out - Bill called Jimmy Martin. Those who know ANYTHING about the history of these two men's relationship know that Bill calling Jimmy was a HUGE HUGE deal...Just a few years earlier, asking Bill to call Jimmy would have been like asking him to go sit in the pig pen with the hogs ...But his heart softened, his consciousness grew, and I personally got the feeling that I was experiencing the REAL Bill Monroe, without all the baggage, attitudes and emotions for the first time in the last year or so of his life.
Not only was he a tremendously talented and driven innovator and artist - Bill was a lot of fun, Loved to be outside, LOVED to be on his farm with the horses and cows and chickens and pigs, LOVED it when company came by to visit, and he could work that little puzzle they have at all the 'Cracker Barrells' and ACE IT EVERY TIME, and could entertain and amaze a person for hours with all the tricks and knots he could accomplish with a rope.
So my little sendoff to Bill would go something like this: 'Mighty fine Bill Monroe! You've done the very best job at being Bill Monroe that could possibly ever be done!! Come on back for an encore whenever you're ready!' Of course, if Butch Robbins has his way, if and when Bill comes back for his encore - he'll be a black girl playing the banjo, but there's not a doubt in my mind he'd do marvelous things no matter what shape or form he's in...(By the way - that's MY thumb pick that Butch put in Bill's casket, or at least that's what Uncle Butchiee came back and told us after Bill's service )
Thanks for wadin' through all this - my best goes out to all you Friends..lp
Howdy,
Please accept my thanks for your very kind, and most interesting comments... (No wadin' needed."
All the best,
A.C.
bbanjoboy - Posted - 06/09/2013: 09:03:00
Hard to top that Bill story, but here goes...
I was asking Mr. Bill for an autograph and I had a big fat Sharpie... I gave him a picture I had taken previously at Ralph Stanley's festival ... Bill had been 'shooting' me with his mandolin from stage... so I had the picture blown up... I handed it to Mr. Bill, along with the sharpie... as he took the cap off of the sharpie he proceeded to put a big mark on the fat part of his hand just below his thumb... he looked at it inquisitively, then looked back at me and said "now what am I supposed to do with that?"...
Speechless I said something like "I don't know".. took my picture and walked away.... LOL.. eight little words that will stick with me forever from my hero.... Too funny
Flying Eagle - Posted - 06/09/2013: 10:07:33
quote:
Originally posted by ACFairbanks
quote:
Originally posted by Flying Eagle
Groping teenagers? Not cool... but if the gropee didn't make a big deal about it, no harm no foul I suppose.
Howdy,
With respect, the notion that the morality of such a situation is to be determined by the reaction of the victim causes me deep concern. (It's called "age of consent" for a reason.")
All the best,
A.C.
Somehow I'm certain this young lady wasn't wearing a t-shirt that said "I'm only 17!!"; nor do I suspect that information was tattooed on her forehead. So, let's give ol' Bill the benefit of the doubt on violating the "age of consent", shall we? At age 17, I DO think the "victim's reaction (or lack thereof) are relevant. She probably should have slapped the old sonofab****. But she didn't.
From DLC's description of events in his post, it was likely evident that she was a young woman. How young she looked, we don't know. But seriously... is groping ANY woman in a fan pic very smart, regardless of the legalities involved? As a previous posted so aptly put it, Bill had feet of clay; he had his weaknesses and shortcomings as do all of us. And perhaps, in some respects he wasn't the smartest guy on the block. Obviously those shortcomings didn't prevent him from forging a legendary career in Bluegrass music.
JW
steve davis - Posted - 06/09/2013: 10:26:11
When it comes to Hero Worship there is a temptation to carry over the hero part into all aspects of their life.
ACFairbanks - Posted - 06/09/2013: 11:09:08
quote:
Originally posted by Flying Eagle
quote:
Originally posted by ACFairbanks
quote:
Originally posted by Flying Eagle
Groping teenagers? Not cool... but if the gropee didn't make a big deal about it, no harm no foul I suppose.
Howdy,
With respect, the notion that the morality of such a situation is to be determined by the reaction of the victim causes me deep concern. (It's called "age of consent" for a reason.")
All the best,
A.C.
Somehow I'm certain this young lady wasn't wearing a t-shirt that said "I'm only 17!!"; nor do I suspect that information was tattooed on her forehead. So, let's give ol' Bill the benefit of the doubt on violating the "age of consent", shall we? At age 17, I DO think the "victim's reaction (or lack thereof) are relevant. She probably should have slapped the old sonofab****. But she didn't.
From DLC's description of events in his post, it was likely evident that she was a young woman. How young she looked, we don't know. But seriously... is groping ANY woman in a fan pic very smart, regardless of the legalities involved? As a previous posted so aptly put it, Bill had feet of clay; he had his weaknesses and shortcomings as do all of us. And perhaps, in some respects he wasn't the smartest guy on the block. Obviously those shortcomings didn't prevent him from forging a legendary career in Bluegrass music.
JW
Howdy JW,
You seem to be contradicting yourself:
You say both that the girl should have "slappoed the old sonofab****" and also that we give "Ol' Bill the benefit of the doubt."
But far more significantly, you are blaming the victim. But, I am blaming Bill.
(And, as I have said before, he was a musical genius.)
All the best,
A.C.
Flying Eagle - Posted - 06/09/2013: 11:24:55
AC, I meant that we should give him the benefit of the doubt on the issue of being a molester ("age of consent"); I thought I was clear on that. I still think what he did in that instance, regardless of the victim's age, was stupid. Stupid. A lot of women WOULD have slapped him for pulling a stunt like that. And I didn't blame the girl for his stupidity. But somebody SHOULD have said something to him for that, on the spot. If it had been my daughter and I'd been standing there, I would have slugged him.
JW
Edited by - Flying Eagle on 06/09/2013 11:35:00
ACFairbanks - Posted - 06/09/2013: 12:04:37
quote:
Originally posted by Flying Eagle
AC, I meant that we should give him the benefit of the doubt on the issue of being a molester ("age of consent"); I thought I was clear on that. I still think what he did in that instance, regardless of the victim's age, was stupid. Stupid. A lot of women WOULD have slapped him for pulling a stunt like that. And I didn't blame the girl for his stupidity. But somebody SHOULD have said something to him for that, on the spot. If it had been my daughter and I'd been standing there, I would have slugged him.
JW
Howdy JW,
I very much appreciate what you have added...
But one way to understand why nobody said anything at the time is to look at the majority of comments that have appeared here in this thread in reaction to Pete bringing up the issue (all these years later.)
It is very hard to confront any of this stuff when it happens, and it is all the more difficult when the person causing the problem is someone held in very high regard.
All the best, and thanks again,
A.C.
TNCowboy - Posted - 06/09/2013: 12:05:38
quote:
Originally posted by steve davis
When it comes to Hero Worship there is a temptation to carry over the hero part into all aspects of their life.
Altogether true Steve; conversely, there is also the temptation to drag those at the top of their field through the mud. This thread seems to have degenerated into an aspersion fishing seminar with extra emphasis on casting skills. Nothing to see hear but gossip and mud wrestling.
Michael
eagleisland - Posted - 06/09/2013: 13:30:30
quote:
Originally posted by TNCowboy
quote:
Originally posted by steve davis
When it comes to Hero Worship there is a temptation to carry over the hero part into all aspects of their life.
Altogether true Steve; conversely, there is also the temptation to drag those at the top of their field through the mud. This thread seems to have degenerated into an aspersion fishing seminar with extra emphasis on casting skills. Nothing to see hear but gossip and mud wrestling.
Michael
I disagree. There are wonderful remembrances of the man by people who knew him well; anecdotes from people who had a few moments with him, and some pretty credible stories that the man was no angel - which was hardly a secret.
This thread simply shows that the Monroe was a complex genius, and altogether human.
ncss - Posted - 06/10/2013: 07:08:16
quote:
Originally posted by fiddlin_Al
I first saw & met Bill while living in Kutztown, PA. in the early 70's. He was playing at a local county fair. I remember Kenny & Jack Hicks were in the band. I think I was the only one in the audience who called out requests. Years later, when I had become a member of Vernon McIntyre's band, "Appalachian Grass, he booked our band on many of his festivals and had us perform as his guests on the Opry. I remember him telling me in jest he was glad I had made " something of myself" when he recognised me from the concert in Kutztown. He was always very nice to me. I asked him one time what I had to do to be a great player, he said " you've got to love it (bluegrass) more than anything else".
I was really in awe of him, but If he didn't like you, he let you know it in his own way.
Kind of off-topic but I grew up in PA and remember running around barefoot in my overalls at the Kutztown fair many times. Small world.
pick it - Posted - 06/10/2013: 12:09:34
quote:
Originally posted by eagleisland
quote:
Originally posted by TNCowboy
quote:
Originally posted by steve davis
When it comes to Hero Worship there is a temptation to carry over the hero part into all aspects of their life.
Altogether true Steve; conversely, there is also the temptation to drag those at the top of their field through the mud. This thread seems to have degenerated into an aspersion fishing seminar with extra emphasis on casting skills. Nothing to see hear but gossip and mud wrestling.
Michael
I disagree. There are wonderful remembrances of the man by people who knew him well; anecdotes from people who had a few moments with him, and some pretty credible stories that the man was no angel - which was hardly a secret.
This thread simply shows that the Monroe was a complex genius, and altogether human.
Right Michael, for some that can't attain that lofty status the only way to bring themselves equal is bring those down to their level.
steve davis - Posted - 06/10/2013: 15:15:53
I'm not worried about what level I'm at.I'm right here at sea level.
Gary Lee - Posted - 06/10/2013: 17:23:11
I yet to skim through the multiple pages on this thread, so maybe my request has been talked about. If not, I heard many years ago about Monroe running into Frank Sinatra and being not so cordial...Monroe that is. Anyone got the skinny on that and what pleasantries he exchanged?
pick it - Posted - 06/10/2013: 18:21:57
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lee
I yet to skim through the multiple pages on this thread, so maybe my request has been talked about. If not, I heard many years ago about Monroe running into Frank Sinatra and being not so cordial...Monroe that is. Anyone got the skinny on that and what pleasantries he exchanged?
Heard something about that but to show what kind of man he was,Elvis Presley came to him could he record "Blue Moon of Kentucky" Bills reply was something like " if it will help you get started go right ahead" little did he know it was Elvis that nearly caused an end to bluegrass music.very hard times in the 50s when Bill was doing his best music.
bbanjoboy - Posted - 06/10/2013: 19:21:02
Personally, I think Bill did his best music in the 80's, perhaps early 90's... His "Master of Bluegrass" was perhaps my favorite album of all time. There were songs like "Northern White Clouds" and many others that never really got the exposure or respect that they deserved on his various records of the time. He knew exactly what he was doing and his compositions were so much more complex later in his life. I've heard that he called "Master" "The mandolin album" and it truly was. "Last days on earth" was an absolute masterpiece. I want that song played at my funeral. The entire album would be one of two I'd want if I were stranded on a desert island. It's so sad that so few people today are even aware of that album or many of Bill's later tunes. He was composing write up until the end.. I remember seeing him one time at Ralph Stanley's old homeplace and he came out onstage with just him and the mandolin. Said he'd been working on this 'back stage".. he was well up in years by then.. said he wanted to play the tune for us... then he said something like 'that's a fine number there'.. and he said he had to come up with a name for it.. I believe he called it the "Smith Ridge shuffle".. never heard that he recorded it... and I'm sure that there were thousands in his head that he never recorded.
His music ranged from songs like "little GA rose" to "Rawhide" to "Last days on earth". The man was an absolute genious, and pretty cool to boot!
arnie fleischer - Posted - 06/10/2013: 19:26:31
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lee
I yet to skim through the multiple pages on this thread, so maybe my request has been talked about. If not, I heard many years ago about Monroe running into Frank Sinatra and being not so cordial...Monroe that is. Anyone got the skinny on that and what pleasantries he exchanged?
Richard Smith relates this story in his biography of Monroe, Can't You Hear Me Callin'. His source is an interview with Tony Conway, Monroe's agent, who was present.
The event was a presidential arts and humanities luncheon held in Washington, DC in 1983 at which Sinatra was also a guest. When they met, Sinatra told Monroe how much he admired his music, specifically saying how he had listened to the Grand Ole Opry in the 1940s. Monroe then asked Sinatra, "Now, what did you say your name was?" Sinatra said, "I'm Frank Sinatra." Monroe said, "And what is it that you do?" to which Sinatra replied, "I'm a singer." Monroe then replied, "I believe I've heard of you."
According to Smith, this was an example of how Monroe liked to keep people off balance by pretending not to know who they were.
Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 06/10/2013: 19:41:52
quote:
Originally posted by pick it
quote:
Originally posted by eagleisland
quote:
Originally posted by TNCowboy
quote:
Originally posted by steve davis
When it comes to Hero Worship there is a temptation to carry over the hero part into all aspects of their life.
Altogether true Steve; conversely, there is also the temptation to drag those at the top of their field through the mud. This thread seems to have degenerated into an aspersion fishing seminar with extra emphasis on casting skills. Nothing to see hear but gossip and mud wrestling.
Michael
I disagree. There are wonderful remembrances of the man by people who knew him well; anecdotes from people who had a few moments with him, and some pretty credible stories that the man was no angel - which was hardly a secret.
This thread simply shows that the Monroe was a complex genius, and altogether human.
Right Michael, for some that can't attain that lofty status the only way to bring themselves equal is bring those down to their level.
Could you perhaps tell us what it is about the truth -the whole truth- that upsets you so? Because as soon as you hear something you don't like about one of your personal idols you seem to feel compelled to attack the person who said it -make things up and lie about them- rather than deal with the truth. It's uncomfortably close to what happens in many incestuous rape cases; with either the victim or the person who reported the rape being blamed for reporting it, rather than blaming the guy who actually did the deed.
It makes people who read your posts feel that you wouldn't have been offended if you'd been standing there watching at the time -even if it were a woman you knew- and if that's actually the case it says a lot about you -and how you think women should be treated.
And as for "trying to bring someone down to my level": what level is lower than that of a guy who will openly use his semi-celebrity status to take advantage of young women?
I'll admittedly never be half the musician Bill was, but I can honestly state that I've never taken advantage of a woman in my life (Been tempted? Sure. Acted on the temptation? No.) and that's a "level" where I'm perfectly content to remain.
Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 06/10/2013: 19:58:42
quote:
Originally posted by arnie fleischer
Richard Smith relates this story in his biography of Monroe, Can't You Hear Me Callin'. His source is an interview with Tony Conway, Monroe's agent, who was present.
The event was a presidential arts and humanities luncheon held in Washington, DC in 1983 at which Sinatra was also a guest. When they met, Sinatra told Monroe how much he admired his music, specifically saying how he had listened to the Grand Ole Opry in the 1940s. Monroe then asked Sinatra, "Now, what did you say your name was?" Sinatra said, "I'm Frank Sinatra." Monroe said, "And what is it that you do?" to which Sinatra replied, "I'm a singer." Monroe then replied, "I believe I've heard of you."
I'd have to assume that Bill was intentionally pulling Sinatra's leg, but Sinatra himself was often pretty nice to other musicians. He once tipped a small unknown Bluegrass band that happened to be fronted by a friend of mine a couple of hundred bucks, and they hadn't even known he was in the room.
~Pete
Banjophobic - Posted - 06/11/2013: 07:28:48
This is exactly why threads like this are dead ends .They do not edify anyone involved. It leads to posters attacking each other and lowers the moral IQ. Let he who is without mistakes [and cynicism] cast the first virtual stone.
This one reminds me of others like "What don't you like about "___" playing?", "Whos the worst band you've ever heard ?" and "What musician have you met who was the biggest arse?". All threads that invite the worse in all of us to be exposed. 
Edited by - Banjophobic on 06/11/2013 07:36:19
bbanjoboy - Posted - 06/11/2013: 07:54:40
Yep, I agree... The best rule to live by is what mama said.. if you can't say anything nice about someone, don't say anything at all....
Jim E. - Posted - 06/11/2013: 08:08:52
Monroe's encounter with Sinatra reminds me of the (true) story of the first meeting between Clark Gable and William Faulkner. Seems they were a part of a golf foursome and, before teeing off, they were introduced to each other. Gable, who was not known for his literacy or intelligence, but already world famous as the King of Hollywood, greeted Faulkner warmly and asked, "And what is it you do, Mr. Faulkner?" "Oh, I write a little", Faulkner replied. "What is it you do, Mr. Gable?"
5-String Dan - Posted - 06/11/2013: 09:41:23
For a long time, I was in a band with a guy whose grandfather grew up with Bill Monroe. The family has stories about them (my friend's grandfather and Bill Monroe) raising fighting roosters and playing at dances together. Not sure how much of that is true, but a signed guitar and some other stuff testifies that at least they did know Bill. In general, I hear that family describe a man who was somewhat quirky (like most decent musicians are) but not unusually harsh or anything really bad.
pick it - Posted - 06/11/2013: 14:49:22
quote:
Originally posted by Deaf Lester Crawdad
quote:
Originally posted by pick it
quote:
Originally posted by eagleisland
quote:
Originally posted by TNCowboy
quote:
Originally posted by steve davis
When it comes to Hero Worship there is a temptation to carry over the hero part into all aspects of their life.
Altogether true Steve; conversely, there is also the temptation to drag those at the top of their field through the mud. This thread seems to have degenerated into an aspersion fishing seminar with extra emphasis on casting skills. Nothing to see hear but gossip and mud wrestling.
Michael
I disagree. There are wonderful remembrances of the man by people who knew him well; anecdotes from people who had a few moments with him, and some pretty credible stories that the man was no angel - which was hardly a secret.
This thread simply shows that the Monroe was a complex genius, and altogether human.
Right Michael, for some that can't attain that lofty status the only way to bring themselves equal is bring those down to their level.
Could you perhaps tell us what it is about the truth -the whole truth- that upsets you so? Because as soon as you hear something you don't like about one of your personal idols you seem to feel compelled to attack the person who said it -make things up and lie about them- rather than deal with the truth. It's uncomfortably close to what happens in many incestuous rape cases; with either the victim or the person who reported the rape being blamed for reporting it, rather than blaming the guy who actually did the deed.
It makes people who read your posts feel that you wouldn't have been offended if you'd been standing there watching at the time -even if it were a woman you knew- and if that's actually the case it says a lot about you -and how you think women should be treated.
And as for "trying to bring someone down to my level": what level is lower than that of a guy who will openly use his semi-celebrity status to take advantage of young women?
I'll admittedly never be half the musician Bill was, but I can honestly state that I've never taken advantage of a woman in my life (Been tempted? Sure. Acted on the temptation? No.) and that's a "level" where I'm perfectly content to remain.
you reveal much about yourself, I have never had the temptation for Rape or Molestation like you confess, so I really can't stay with you on that one..you must think everyone including Bill thinks like you, as you say quote:( thats the level I'm perfectly content) .Dangerous thinking Pete.
pick it - Posted - 06/11/2013: 18:54:31
you view of me is hypothetical you actually WERE standing there watching the deed and NEVER done anything about it.
Edited by - pick it on 06/11/2013 18:57:40
bbanjoboy - Posted - 06/11/2013: 21:00:58
Could you guys please give it a rest already... sheesh..
tjmangum - Posted - 06/11/2013: 21:06:10
As a novice to BG, I appreciate the stories about this most iconic man. While I was fortunate to see him play once back in the mid-70's, and I knew some of the basic history, this thread has given me a lot to digest. A friend of mine who was a producer for 60 Minutes, years ago, once told me, "Never meet your heroes - chances are they won't be after you do."
Terry
steve davis - Posted - 06/12/2013: 06:37:10
With a question as open ended as what kind of person someone was,you'll get all kinds of answers.
No surprise,there.
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