5 finger ninja - Posted - 05/28/2013:  07:15:06

lets see if I can do this...ok I can lol! If there is one you guys want and I have it I'll post it :)

thanks Beckyboy, wherever you are! These tracks have helped me a bunch!

Edited by - 5 finger ninja on 05/28/2013 07:18:29

foggy mountain breakdown (biab)

picnparty - Posted - 05/31/2013:  20:27:59

Mark ,

Where did you go ?   I don't think you realize this but you are my band .  I can't tell you how much I appreciate your backing track list.  I am glad I found this thread b/c I can no longer access your playlist and it has all my favorites that I play to daily.  The BHO music search no longer has the backing tracks you created up either. I hope you come back.  I am sure I am not the only one who needs you.

I am sure glad the hangout keeps the archives ... phew !!!   My band (beckyboy's BIAB backing tracks playlist) and I are back together. Please keep this thread alive BHO.

Thank you for all your hard work Mark.   Come back soon . 

Chadbanjo - Posted - 07/31/2013:  10:47:51

I was trying to download a few of these to put on cd for to play along with, my computer speakers cant pump out enough volume when I play along. Hitting a brick wall, can't download the mp3s....is that just the way it is?

Chadbanjo - Posted - 07/31/2013:  11:48:06

Nevermind, not only going deaf, but blind to

This great, i've listened to a few, seems it will work just as well with clawhammer. thanks for the resource.

Edited by - Chadbanjo on 07/31/2013 11:49:36

capo matt - Posted - 09/24/2013:  20:46:11

wow, amazing thread.

Yanni - Posted - 12/18/2013:  09:51:14

Hi all,

I love the tracks in here and I still have plenty to learn, being a relative newbie :)  The one I really wanted I could not find so I bit the bullet and got Band In A Box and this is my first attempt at a backing track, I hope it proves useful.  This is at 100bpm, which seems about right to me.  It makes me smile when I am playing at least :)

Ian

Bonaparte Crossing The Rhine

Coldshot - Posted - 12/18/2013:  15:28:51

Beckyboy for president I say.
There is still good in this world ;-)
Thank you so much! You've made my day.
Cheers.

jackhatfield - Posted - 12/19/2013:  09:33:35

I think while sharing a few tracks or tab arrangements as a teaser to attract customers to a persons site is OK, but posting dozens of tabs, tracks or videos is very harmful to those who are trying to make a living in the banjo instruction field. Making a living with ANYTHING banjo-related is tough enough without having to compete with free giveaways by people who aren't even teachers or pro players. The instructional DVD market has totally died because of Youtube. Nobody will buy a professionally produced Ron Block or Jim Mills DVD because there is some guy in his living room posting (usually inaccurate) videos of the pro's' recordings. Intellectual property rights? Lawsuits? Sure, but who can afford to pay lawyers for the meager profits made? It's one thing to come up with an arrangement on your own, and occasionally proudly post it for others to comment on and learn…cud's for that. But this thread and others like it is taking money out of the pockets of thousands of professional banjo players and teachers and publishers. Nothing would make me happier than for Eric to shut this topic and all similar ones down.

jackhatfield - Posted - 12/19/2013:  09:49:43

IMO, There should be a limit to the number of tab or tracks uploads a person can make in a given time period. Let's SUPPORT our banjo heroes and those in the banjo instruction field instead of ripping them off.

shamsterdam - Posted - 12/19/2013:  15:01:33

I bought the jim mills an ron block dvds. If you want to become better, you ll listen to the pros.

Also, learning is more about your own discipline and talent then about the teacher.

But we live in a time where everybody can do everything themselves, i feel it to in my line of work as a (professional) designer. I hope you don't mind i make an extra buck playing banjo?

jackhatfield - Posted - 12/20/2013:  11:12:05

"Also, learning is more about your own discipline and talent then about the teacher."

I agree that anyone with enough dedication and motivation will eventually learn. However, one can practice four hours a day, but if he is practicing the wrong things the wrong way he is wasting an incredible amount of time. Learning is GREATLY enhanced and made more efficient by a good teacher. So is discipline/motivation…having to "perform" for the teacher each week is incentive to practice regularly. That same guy with a good teacher may realize the same improvements in his technique, understanding and repertoire in an hour or two a day instead of four, and never waste months going back to re-learn an ingrained bad habit once he realizes he did it incorrectly the first time. Therefore, I do NOT agree with your "more about our own discipline..." statement.

...and you made my point about the instructional materials. YOU were interested enough to learn it right…you went to the horse's mouth buying the Block and Mills DVD's instead of taking the cheap route and googling their tunes on YouTtube. But I believe you are in the vast minority. When something is available for free, I think MOST people will go there first without regard to its quality. They can't judge whether it is correct or not until AFTER they have spent the time learning it.

ken61 - Posted - 12/21/2013:  21:34:06

Beckyboy, thank you!

I have sent MArk Beck a friends request as the only way I could think of to say Thank you !

ken

Beckyboy - Posted - 12/22/2013:  02:42:23

Guys and Gals

I'm sorry but I've been up all night chewing my nails and worrying about poor Jack Hatfield struggling to make a living because of the free tracks I posted, the thought of poor ol Jack not being able to pay his bills and possibly ending up on the street was just to much to think about so all tracks are gone.

Hopefully he can now make a buck out of his fellow BHO members so please help Jack pay his bills and be sure to buy all his material, Jeeps I think i'm gonna cry.  

Bye Folks.

Edited by - Beckyboy on 12/22/2013 02:45:55

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 12/22/2013:  05:08:28

Hi Beckyboy

That was very kind and noble of you. Jack must surely be going through some hard times that he sees your goodwill as a threat to his income. I don't for one moment think that your Backing Tracks has been harmful to his business but if it gives some comfort and reassurance to him at this time that further demonstrates your goodwill towards others.  Hopefully Jack will find new prosperity in the New Year.

Beckyboy - Posted - 12/22/2013:  05:23:02

Times are hard for us all, but hey ho!

Shame the world has to revolve completely around making a buck and not about being good to each other.

p.s I actually have lots of DVD's from the Pro's and Instructional material including one of Jacks, There was room for all.

Merry Christmas Everyone!

Edited by - Beckyboy on 12/22/2013 05:26:01

Banjowen - Posted - 12/22/2013:  06:02:51

I've bought loads of books and DVDs over the years but I can't afford to buy any more so if I can get any freebies .....I absolutely will.

Shake-Boy - Posted - 12/22/2013:  07:42:33

So after reading through this thread it's apparent that many of you downloaded backing tracks created by Beckyboy to your own computers.  Who is willing to use their own profile to repost them?  I would do so but I didn't download any of them.  If anyone wants to contact me and send them via email I'll be happy to post them under my profile. 

It's a shame that they were all removed based on one person's objection when it's obvious that Mr. Hatfield doesn't have much (if any) support for his position.  I don't see any "professionals" rushing to his side in agreement.....as a matter of fact there are a few who have publicly disagreed with him....John Boulding (Banjophobic) is just one example.    (see:  banjohangout.org/topic/276205/#3476300 )

@Beckyboy - I passionately urge you to reconsider.  You've appeased one person and his opinion to the detriment of the entire community.  Your work and goodwill are appreciated by many.   I will be doing what I can to get the tracks posted anyway.....so I'm anticipating at least a portion of them will soon be available again.  How about saving me, and others, the trouble?

Looking forward to the opinions of others on this one. 

Merry Christmas Everybody!

Shake-Boy (Paul Kosiewicz)

Edited by - Shake-Boy on 12/22/2013 07:43:05

RShook - Posted - 12/23/2013:  02:48:09

First off, I'd like to Thank Beckyboy and anyone else that has posted these backing tracks



I normally don't clutter up the forums with my posts as you can see (My first post)  I've only been playing for about 1 1/2 years but this beats all I've ever seen. So sad to see that Mr. Hatfield thinks these are hurting sales of any kind. If anything, it keeps me interested in playing which will keep my interest in buying instructional DVDs and books.



I buy instructional books and DVDs all the time (Just bought The Banjo Encyclopedia and the Earl Scruggs books last week)  I have bought several lessons videos from here and I also pay an instructor every other week (I go for lessons every other Monday) in hopes of becoming a better player but these backing tracks are a great help in my timing. They aren't as good as a live guitar but hey, I can't have one of those with me all the time 

I don't have all of the backing tracks but I do have a zip file of 243 of Beckyboy's and a Song List to go with them. If I need to remove these or post them in a different way, Eric, just let me know or remove them from this post.

I hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

All includes you too, Jack. I do hope you prosper in your business sir but I think your posts on this subject is sadly going to do nothing but hurt it

Backing Tracks

dropbox.com/s/334rj714gi58iit/...es_RS.zip

Song List

dropbox.com/s/zi6npshzqjus35c/...gList.pdf

Edited by - RShook on 12/23/2013 02:49:30

RShook - Posted - 12/23/2013:  03:15:24

These are BIAB SGU files, not MP3s so you'll have to have BIAB to use them.

lbsfarms - Posted - 12/23/2013:  09:05:51

I have bought many books from Jack Hatfield and I just don't see how these backing tracks are taking anything away from him or anyone else. To me they are a practice tool. I don't have a lot of opportunity to play with other people and these tracks have helped me alot. I never thought to down load them and unfortunately don't have BIAB. Beckyboy, thanks for posting them and please ad my voice to reconsider putting them back.

Tim13 - Posted - 12/24/2013:  10:22:06

Well, I have BIAB, so I didn't use Beckeyboys files very much, but they were nice to have, especially for those not fortunate enough to be able to buy the BIAB program.  I'm glad to see Eric is taking the bull by the horns, and starting to post his own BIAB files with real instruments, at various speeds.  This should be a mainstay.

I would support Jacks ideology only if the teachers and pros would adhere to the same conduct that other specialty professionals like doctors, lawyers, and such do;  pro bono instruction for those that don't have the means.  Seriously, those that can pay will, but those that can't are given lessons and material gratis as an act of charity.  Somehow, I don't think this would be agreeable....lol.

Again, thanks to Eric for taking the lead on the backing tracks, and building on Beckeyboys original work.  Cudos!

Tim

pickNgrin - Posted - 12/24/2013:  11:36:36

If anything, the backing tracks are taking away from the makers of BIAB. But I'm not even sure of that because some folks are probably more likely to buy it so they can tailor backing tracks to their tastes, now that they have seen what it can do. Last I checked BIAB does not work too well on a Mac (which is what I have), so I am glad that people post some premade tracks here. 

I don't see how the existence of the backing tracks affect instructors at all, since the backing tracks do not try to teach anything. if I was an instructor, I would provide free backing tracks for the songs that I teach. 

Edited by - pickNgrin on 12/24/2013 11:38:18

phb - Posted - 12/25/2013:  00:30:40

I find it odd that somebody who sells transcriptions of famous people's recordings would complain about free tabs/learning material and copyright infringement. Earl Scruggs set a standard by not charging for transcriptions (slightly modified or not, they are still infringements of his copyrights) that should be applied to the genre as a whole. If some tabs are better than others, this should be the distinguishing factor in the market. If some people give away tabs or learning material for free, this would seem to be more in the spirit of Earl Scruggs than charging for them where the creator of the music didn't charge anything.

kipperr - Posted - 12/28/2013:  19:26:27

One of the best things musically I've gotten from this site, and one whiner, giving NO GOOD REASON, gets all of the backing tracks taken down?

Scrooge is alive and well on the BHO!

Makes me sorry I ever bought Jack's materials.

theyellowdart - Posted - 12/29/2013:  10:54:50

Does anyone have all of these backing tracks saved as MP3s that they would be willing to share?

schlange - Posted - 01/09/2014:  10:40:34

We've got lots and lots of backing tracks in the music archives, and I'm adding more. You can find them by searching for "Backing Tracks" as the playing style.

Here's a link to those search results >

jerroh - Posted - 01/21/2014:  20:55:33

This Jack Hatfield guy is way off! Becky Boy never ripped off any pros or posted any material that I saw that could be considered "incorrect." I think what most people used and benefited from were his own created backing tracks. Just a practice tool. They could not be considered stealing anything from anyone. I dearly miss practicing to them and I thank Jack for setting my banjo playing way back! Does he think I will ever go buy his material now? I'm super bummed those tracks were deleted.

Cohumulone - Posted - 01/22/2014:  10:37:16

I can see both sides of the coin here, but I'll weigh in, whether you like it or not haha.

I think a dedicated learner is going to use whatever he or she can get. This means that not only am I going to pay for Jack's backup techniques, Scruggs' $35 book, and $40 per week at my instructor, but I'm also going to take any quality freebie I can get. If there's something I don't like about any of them, I simply won't use them. Heck, there are thing's in Jack's instructional book/CD that I simply don't like, but I find other things extremely valuable. A list of free backup tracks wouldn't stop me from buying Hatfield's material, not because one is superior to the other, but simply because it's something different.

My $.02.

jkswor - Posted - 01/30/2014:  08:41:27

Im new to the banjo, however have played guitar for 40 years.  Back bout 10 years ago I wanted to learn the Steel Guitar but was out in the boonies and could not be in a band, however I was able to find all sorts of learning tapes and back up tapes out the cazoo for the pros in Nashville, Tn.  They charged a fair price for these tapes.  The better ones wold have the Pro playing a song on the Steel, using a band of other pros, and have a pause to play your verison.   Heck, I have many tapes of songs with just a band playing without the Steel guitar for me to play along with..  A tabulature for each song was included.  Now, my question is why doesnt someone do that for the banjo.  I know Id buy the back up tapes or whatever they are now days.  With out some way to get to a band or have a back up, Im pretty screwed as to advancing on this Banjo.  So, free stuff is good and there is not much of it, but why doesent some of you pros out there make some instrcuional tapes with back up tracks for us beginners or intermediate players who cant find someone to play with, as with me.  I live in rural Alaska and the nearest city is over 200 miles away.  So a practice with others will never happen.

Jim Swor

Kgbow - Posted - 02/03/2014:  01:40:31

I play professionally in the UK, I make a living from teaching and playing. However I lost all my students because of this post! NOT..... I think it is a massive shame this has been taken down because of one mans inability to see sense.

Beckyboy, I would love to see these tracks back up again for the public to use freely. It has done no harm I can assure you. As for Jack? Should have taken up the flute.

jackhatfield - Posted - 02/26/2014:  19:09:50

This is the first time I have looked at this thread since I posted. I was not aware the tracks had been removed, but i do think it is the right thing to do. To be clear, i would have no problem with them being allowed but with a monthly limit, say five. For all those who are mad at me get over it. I doubt if ANY of you make your living selling banjo instructional materials. My DVD sales are down 90% from five years ago. With e-books, kindle, Youtube, and Skype, even the printed word is in danger. Most of you have no idea the state of publishers of instruction books. my publisher, Mel Bay has drastically cut back with massive layoffs. They don'y have any sales reps that out and visit stores any more. They went to digital printing that can print and bind books in small lots of 100 and print based on projections for the next quarter instead of the print runs of 2,000-10,000 they used to put out and pay to warehouse. The authors (ME!) are now expected to do all the layout and graphics. It takes five times more time to get a book ready to submit because i'm doing most the work the publisher used to do other than the distribution…for the SAME royalties as when i could submit a hand-writted manuscript twenty years ago. My last two projects I could have gone straight to the printer with the files I created and self-published myself "as is". SInce I had to do all the layout/graphics and pay my own recording costs including studio time and session fees for one of the best bands in bluegrass (Blue Moon Rising) on my last project Best of Jack Hatfield, I may NEVER actually make a dime on the book. I did some calculating...If I spent the same amount of time say, mowing yards or cleaning gutters for minimum wage as I did on writing the book, I would be $11,520 ahead in just one year. I have rental property and a small mail order banjo supply business. If I had to depend on authoring banjo instruction books for a living I would be on welfare. Most of the people who do what I do are in a similar situation, but nobody wants to admit lack of financial success. Many have a wife with a full time job. Some come from a well-to-do family. Most touring pros, even well-known ones, live near poverty level. It's a HARD life sleeping in a bus three or four days a week and eating in restaurants most of the time. J.D. Crowe, arguably the most popular banjo player in bluegrass for twenty years, certainly the most decorated, never gave up his day job with the postal system! If he could not trust his incredible talent to provide for his family, how do you think the rank and file sidemen are doing? Many of you think you would love it, but I'd say that even if anybody posting here had the actual talent to become a touring/recording pro, you wouldn't last six months before you went back to suburbia, a warm bed, and a steady paycheck.

So to all you people who have a good day job and play banjo for fun who are complaining about the downloads being removed: I challenge you to quit your current job and try to make a living with ANYTHING related to the banjo. Let me know how you fare. I'm not just talking about me. If a great player ever gave you listening pleasure or you were ever motivated by someone's banjo recording, then go out buy that person's CD, DVD or book instead of trying to get it for free on the internet or burning a friend's original disk.

Twenty years ago nobody would have believed such media icons as Look magazine or Life magazine would ever go bankrupt. Read this article on the demise of Time magazine:

theatlantic.com/business/archi...e/274713/

and this Wikipidea article on bankrupt newspapers:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_...ewspapers

...and these are MAINSTREAM media! How do you think the internet is affecting cottage industries like banjo instruction publishing?

Ron Block was the featured artist at my SPBGMA workshop a month ago. He left me 10 instructional DVD's to sell at my booth over the weekend. I sold one. in a huge bluegrass convention with what I would estimate 2,000 banjo players walking around. Ask Ron how he feels about online lessons and free backing tracks. People like him gave up their youth to become skilled enough to make banjo music for a living. Forget about me, I'll survive. At least support these guys who have devoted their life to learn a art form that 98% of the cases will never provide for their families in a lower middle class environment. Support these people who have given you so much pleasure and motivation instead of …yes I said it before and i'll stick by it…"ripping them off".

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 02/26/2014:  20:12:01

Thanks Jack, as a musician/music teacher making my living in that field for 40 years that's a lot to ponder, Rick

ScratchJohnson - Posted - 02/26/2014:  21:52:46

The market has evolved. It's not the consumers fault if people don't evolve with it.  I utilize FREE sources all the time, but like most people I buy things too. Don't complain about Skype and Youtube, use it. I'm  a paying member of two banjo sites and I found them both through free appetizer videos on youtube. I've purchased several ebooks that I found through, once again, youtube. 

I literally can't fathom why you'd complain about online lessons. 

jackhatfield - Posted - 02/26/2014:  22:16:14

..what i meant to say was "free" online lessons…sorry. I'm all for any qualified teacher providing a service and charging a fair amount for it via any media, Skype or whatever. However, I detest Youtube and it's free lessons which are mostly worth exactly that.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 02/27/2014:  05:12:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkswor

Im new to the banjo, however have played guitar for 40 years.  Back bout 10 years ago I wanted to learn the Steel Guitar but was out in the boonies and could not be in a band, however I was able to find all sorts of learning tapes and back up tapes out the cazoo for the pros in Nashville, Tn.  They charged a fair price for these tapes.  The better ones wold have the Pro playing a song on the Steel, using a band of other pros, and have a pause to play your verison.   Heck, I have many tapes of songs with just a band playing without the Steel guitar for me to play along with..  A tabulature for each song was included.  Now, my question is why doesnt someone do that for the banjo.  I know Id buy the back up tapes or whatever they are now days.  With out some way to get to a band or have a back up, Im pretty screwed as to advancing on this Banjo.  So, free stuff is good and there is not much of it, but why doesent some of you pros out there make some instrcuional tapes with back up tracks for us beginners or intermediate players who cant find someone to play with, as with me.  I live in rural Alaska and the nearest city is over 200 miles away.  So a practice with others will never happen.

Jim Swor

---

There is such a beast. Look at the Best of Jack Hatfield Book. It has slowed down versions of songs both up and down the neck with tab for learning and then it has the songs played with a band with the band in one channel and the banjo in the other. So you can turn down the band and play with a pro band backing you up. He also as songs like that on his cd's with his book on back up.

ken

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 02/27/2014:  05:21:09

whew, some reading here. I can understand people upset at  not having the backup tracks. However IMO there is another side of the coin to consider. If we make it so that there is no financial incentive for our talented teacher/players to put out materials for teaching (like Ron Block & others) then soon they won't publish or produce anything. What will we have then? We will have the blind leading the blind and people like me giving opinions that some poor guy will take as instruction!

Personally I have been greatly helped by the materials from Wernick, Hatfield, Davis,Scruggs, & Seeger more than I have by backing tracks. Just food for thought and not being critical of people with differing thoughts.

ken

Edited by - From Greylock to Bean Blossom on 02/27/2014 05:23:47

kipperr - Posted - 02/27/2014:  06:10:46

What Jack wants is apparently what many who are/were making money in a certain industry want - to keep everyone else out. They want regulation to protect themselves and their profits, and keep everyone else out, but they do not want to change with a changing market.

I once worked in an industry that has since gone under. Whining, complaining, and trying to guilt someone into protecting that industry, and my job, would have done no good. I went out and retrained myself and got a job in a different line of work. I'm really sorry if you don't want  to do that - it is hard to do, so I guess I understand.

All this whining and complaining about people sleeping on busses and having wives with full time jobs - grow up and join the rest of us in the real world. Your line or reasoning is ridiculous and nonsensical.

As for your challenge: "So to all you people who have a good day job and play banjo for fun who are complaining about the downloads being removed: I challenge you to quit your current job and try to make a living with ANYTHING related to the banjo." Why would I quit my job to do that? It is, by your own admission, a losing proposition. Again, the line of reasoning and defense of your complaints is just nonsensical.

I have purchased your materials in the past, but you can be sure it won't happen again.

Now the Ron Block DVD sounds interesting...

jackhatfield - Posted - 02/27/2014:  07:30:07

I don't want to keep everyone out. If you will read my posts with any objectivity at all you will see what I am opposed to is unqualified people who don't Need the income because they have good jobs outside music giving things away excessively which in the long run will reduce sales for ALL the qualified professionals. I have been selling my materials alongside such experienced and gifted authors and performers as Janet Davis, Eddie Collins, Bill Evans, Bela Fleck, J. D. Crowe, Ron Block, Sonny Osborne, Tony Trischka, Ross Nickerson, John Lawless, Ian Perry, Ira Gitlin, Kristin Scott-Benson, Tom Adams, Eddie Adcock, Dave Ball, Richard Bailey, Eddie Collins, Gary Davis, Sonny Smith, Wayne Erbsen, Jack Hicks, Steve Huber, Gerald Jones, Terry Baucom, Bill Keith, Andy King, Dan Levenson, Tom Nechville, Ned Lubereki, Randall Morton, Frank Neat, Arthur Hatfield, Ken Perlman, James McKinney, Larry McNeely, Curtis McPeake, Jim Pankey, Butch Robins, Rick Sampson, Joe Mullins, Scott Vestal, Sammy Shelor, Roger Simpson, Marc Smith, Snuffy Smith (deceased), Doug Dillard (deceased), Earl Scruggs (deceased), Ron Stewart, Herb Trotman, Leroy Troy, Frank Lee, the list goes on and on. I can name others if anybody wants me to...and every one of these people are friends of mine and/or have worked with me and/or for me in workshops and camps. I respect every one of them and their right to sell the wares they spent decades acquiring the expertise to produce, and I believe they reciprocate to a man (and woman). I knew when I posted on the very thread I was complaining about I would not win any friends and would likely lose sales. If I lost ten prospective customers because I made a couple hundred who didn't happen to respond think twice about getting their stuff from Youtube I am quite satisfied with that. The point was raising awareness of the bigger picture of the plight in the instructional publishing world in this internet age, and if I accomplished that with some of the BH members who are not so invested in their own uploads and getting something for nothing, I am satisfied with that as well. As for "whining" and "growing up"…look at some of the posts above. Some sound like a miffed twelve-year-old. All that's missing is the sticking out of the tongue with thumbs in the ear and the accompanying "Nya, nya nya Nyaaa Nya".
I don't know what anybody here does for a living, but I would bet my house that if any of them, for example, owned a retail shoe store and someone set up a sidewalk stand in front of their shop giving away free shoes of inferior quality, they would be unhappy about it and complain. It's a free country, with free speech. I have as much right to complain as the people I am complaining about have to engage in the activities I am complaining about. Some of the people in this thread need to "grow up" IMO, and consider the bigger picture, and whether there will even BE any banjo instruction books by qualified pros ten or twenty years from now.
As for changing with the times, I do plan on transferring most of my materials to downloadable media. My Mel Bay books already are available online from the Mel Bay website. I've just been too under the gun of publishing deadlines along with the three or four other things I do for income, playing competitive tennis, and volunteer work directing and coaching in a middle school tennis league, etc. to get it done. I DO have a life outside the banjo world to keep me sane.

ScratchJohnson - Posted - 02/27/2014:  07:49:49

To quote Egon ( RIP ) - print is dead.

I think you unfairly judge the people who enjoy spreading music knowledge out  of kindness. I also think you fail to understand that the majority of people that used the free backing tracks have also probably paid for lessons or purchased materials.

Personally, I've bought a few books and spent a few hundred bucks with Tony's site and BanjoBen. I think your rant is misguided. 

jackhatfield - Posted - 02/27/2014:  08:00:50

...and you have every right to your opinion as well.

RShook - Posted - 02/27/2014:  08:12:45

After reading through all of this, I can understand Jack to a point as far as instruction goes but I personally still don't see anything wrong with the backing tracks.

I think Eric and others have us covered on those anyway

banjohangout.org/topic/276431/1

Jack, I'm glad to hear that you are transferring your material to downloadable media. I think that will only help your sales.

I've seen many people on here that really like Jack's instruction and I've given him a fair shot.

I just ordered the Bluegrass Banjo Method books 1 and 2 and the Backup Techniques from him this morning and can't wait to work my way through them.

That'll keep me busy for a long while.

I'd like to add one other thought to this. All the instruction in the world (free or paid) will do you no good if you don't use it correctly.

It's kind of like golf....you can buy all the best clubs and balls you want, but you can't buy a swing. You have to earn it through quality instruction and plenty of practice. Banjo playing is no different

jackhatfield - Posted - 02/27/2014:  08:36:49

I actually have no huge problem with tracks either…I don't think posted tracks "per se" hurt sales of the pros too much. It's just the excessive uploading by a very small handful of members I was complaining about. Some of you need to go back and read my initial post before commenting on all the side issues that came up. This post, which I didn't expect to be popular, but also never expected to create such ire and contempt, was just the springboard. Only the initial one or two posts even mention tracks. I was very surprised to learn they were removed.
It's the more general issue of free lessons by unqualified people on the internet that bothers me, and while I know I can't do anything about it, that doesn't keep me from expressing my opinion. That IS why this forum is here. Maybe some people were enlightened or at least entertained by reading the perspective of a person who makes a living in the banjo instruction field. Maybe some learned a little they were unaware of about the state of the "printed word" publishing industry, who knows? My main intent was certainly not to offend anyone, but that is probably a given on a forum with 80,000 readers. I have offended people on BH by stating IMO Earl Scruggs is the father of bluegrass banjo! It's just one persons 's opinion. No need to for anyone to go for their guns.

phb - Posted - 02/27/2014:  09:00:23

@jackhatfield:

Thanks for your openness about this. I do respect your opinion as much as I selfishly welcome free teaching material. I have bought from you and I would do so again. I do share some of your concerns but more with regard to newspapers. We get lots of free information on the internet but will we continue to get well researched information in an everything's free culture?

Merc70 - Posted - 02/27/2014:  10:32:43

Jack, while you are an outstanding player and instructor, you have simply not adapted to new technologies.  You aren't the first to go down this road and won't be the last.  I'm also sad to see that Becky Boy collapsed like a house of cards under one complaint.

At any rate Jack, I'd be curious if you could explain specifically how you were financially damaged when I downloaded and played along to the Boil Them Cabbage Down slow backing track?

I'm not an "all free" kind of guy - I spend about $500 a year on some combination of banjo lessons and instructional material.

 

kipperr - Posted - 02/27/2014:  10:52:31

Jack,

While I certainly don't agree with all of the opinions you have given, I think everyone can respect you as a musician and teacher. Your materials (method books 1 & 2) are top-notch, well-written and well-organized.

While I still believe everything I said in my post, my tone was too harsh. Please accept my apologies.

I hope you are able to continue making a living at what you enjoy doing. Most people don't have that opportunity.

jackhatfield - Posted - 02/27/2014:  10:52:45

If you read my posts more carefully, i make it clear over and over again I'm addressing the larger picture, the future of instruction, and the professional touring musicians who we all admire who also do this to make ends meet...not so much being concerned about my own immediate personal income. If I was so concerned about my own income would I have posted an opinion that was sure to make enemies of prospective customers? ...and didn't i just say I'm planning on going to downloads with my own materials, and that the Mel Bay stuff is already available via e-media? ? I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall here. I surrender. I'm outta here.

jackhatfield - Posted - 02/27/2014:  10:54:42

No worries Kipperr. Thanks for being man enough to apologize publicly. I get to hot and bothered also online sometimes.

kipperr - Posted - 02/27/2014:  10:59:57

And please don't let this dust-up stop you from coming around the hangout.

You have a perspective to give that most of us don't have. Whether we always agree with it or not, we're better off, and more informed, for being exposed to it.

Merc70 - Posted - 02/27/2014:  13:49:38

Jack should be the one apologizing. 

He comes on a thread about backing tracks and says we are hurting professional musicians and those in the banjo instruction field.  Here are the quotes.

1. But this thread and others like it is taking money out of the pockets of thousands of professional banjo players and teachers and publishers. Nothing would make me happier than for Eric to shut this topic and all similar ones down.

2.IMO, There should be a limit to the number of tab or tracks uploads a person can make in a given time period. Let's SUPPORT our banjo heroes and those in the banjo instruction field instead of ripping them off.

Then he refuses to defend the statements, instead changing his argument to say he doesn't have a problem with backing tracks.  In the meantime, the original poster of the backing tracks got scared off and removed them all so we were left holding the (empty) bag so to speak.

Jack - would you also support shutting down local jam groups because I get to practice with them instead of practicing along with professionally produced backing tracks?  Of course not.  these backing tracks hurt you as much as my local jam hurt you - zero.  In fact I would argue it might actually help you as there is a bigger audience to crave banjo material.

I believe Jacks' real problem is that anybody with a banjo can now post free material and it is up to us to seek out quality material, which is most likely not free.  But it is the same things in many walks of life - I have to seek out things that meet my quality criteria and decide if I am willing to pay for them.  The fact is that 99% of banjo playing is a hobby.  You have chosen it as a profession and it just isn't lucrative, never was and never will be.