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Blue Cheese - Posted - 01/03/2011: 17:44:15
After searching the forums (should have done before 
) I found what I needed. Thread closed.
Edited by - Blue Cheese on 01/04/2011 06:28:07
AllanJ - Posted - 01/04/2011: 01:25:17
Are you playing 5-string or tenor? If tenor, have a look on the 4-string forum. If 5-string have a searh through this forum.
Blue Cheese - Posted - 01/04/2011: 06:26:06
5-string. K, I will. - L
Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/14/2011: 03:43:01
quote:
Originally posted by Blue Cheese
After searching the forums (should have done before ) I found what I needed. Thread closed.
Okay, Blue Cheese I don't know what exactly you're looking for or what you've discovered yet, but I've been on this quest for a long long time, so here's my first Celtic book/CD package that Mel Bay published in 1998,
Mel Bay’s Complete Book of Irish & Celtic 5-String Banjo.
It's got 101 tunes, 68 on the CD, plus a cross-indexed glossary, with tunes from the Six Celtic Nations and the Celtic diaspora. It's a very rich and varied tradition, or set of traditions.
Also, click on
Tom Hanway’s Celtic tunes on BHO, or the music link above, for lots of samples from my book/CD, including jigs, reels, hornpipes, and Carolan tunes, all mp3s used with permission from Mel Bay Publications, Inc. I had to get permission to put them up on BHO, since they're subject to copyright laws. Yeah, that. LOL
A word to the wise: Nobody has all the tunes, but everybody has a piece of the tradition. Learn one tune at a time.
I studied banjo with Tony Trischka and Bill Keith back in the 80s, so my playing goes back to bluegrass picking, but I didn't stop there. I moved to Ireland from NYC in 2003. So I'm surrounded by amazing Irish trad players - the real stuff - a real challenge!
I hope this helps you in your Celtic quest on the 5-driver. One tune at a time, brotherman!
Warm regards,
Tom
Edited by - Tom Hanway on 01/14/2011 03:51:44
Blue Cheese - Posted - 01/14/2011: 10:09:40
Your book is on its way to my door! Can't wait to dig into it. :)
Your playing is awesome, make the tunes really come to life.
That's cool! I'm learning under Tony T right now and I'm really enjoying it...
Thanks for the encouragement and advice!
- Levi B.
Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/17/2011: 14:47:48
Levi B. Thank you, I'm here for ya!
Get Tony to show you 'Snowflake Reel' in D, the Tommy Jackson tune. Awesome! I have family matters to attend to, the death and dying thing, so I need to focus on my wife and family.
The main difference between jamming in bluegrass/newgrass/jazz and playing Celtic tunes is that improvisation (in the latter) takes the form of standard types of ornamentation and personal variations that stick very close to the bare bones melody and don't deviate from its basic scale tones (mode).
Always be able to play the bare bones melody, and play every note of it, evenly and clearly.
Raising or lowering a pitch here and there is cool, but if one starts putting in lots of chromatic or jazzy scales, one gets into hybrid forms that no longer sound Irish or Celtic, in the traditional sense.
I'm not saying not to do it, just know that you're doing it and be respectful of playing in context, especially at sessions with strict melody players, people who know a lot more tunes and who may take humbrage to your wild abandon and artistic license. Learn from everybody, and learn what not to do ... by observing all. All will be revealed. It's a long road that has no turning!
Play in context, be humble, play your ass off but don't be a show-off, unless it's your turn at bat, like a solo thing, or your own act/band.
At sessions, strive for happy unison, good timing, proper (real Irish term) tempos, and camaraderie. Save your solo work for just that. Don't try to play faster or louder than the players around you. You'll get a reputation for that, save it for the recordings and concerts. Then, be yourself and blow 'em away. Haha!
Edited by - Tom Hanway on 01/17/2011 15:00:11
DIV - Posted - 01/17/2011: 15:13:43
I bought Tom's book/cd when I was in the mood for learning something different.
GREAT, GREAT, GREAT!!!!
Very tasteful arrangements of classic celtic and Irish tunes and a very informative book. It's also an excellent way to build up your single string agility!
Blue Cheese - Posted - 01/17/2011: 18:27:00
quote:
Originally posted by DIV
I bought Tom's book/cd when I was in the mood for learning something different.
GREAT, GREAT, GREAT!!!!
Very tasteful arrangements of classic celtic and Irish tunes and a very informative book. It's also an excellent way to build up your single string agility!
Cool! It's supposed to be here tomorrow. :)
I'm sorry to here about the death Mr. Hanway.
slickstrings - Posted - 01/17/2011: 18:44:24
I might also get this book. I like the celtic tunes in Tony Trischka's fiddle tune book. Is this book like that but just celtic tunes?
Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/17/2011: 23:58:54
Levi B.: I won't steer this thread off-topic, but quickly: we're trying to keep my mother-in-law Mona alive and make her comfortable, and late last night a full medical team arrived at Emergency in Waterford, phew, which is no easy feat in this country, where you're lucky even to get a bed. Fingers crossed.
I was playing tunes for senior citizens in a community hospital the other day, and 'O'Carolan's Concerto' is a very sacred tune to many of them because of what it represents in terms of Irish classical tradition, and because it's a majestic tune. Keeping it at a stately tempo is a good idea. What's the rush? 
Slickstrings: I went to the proverbial "Tony Trischka College of Banjo", studying with him for nearly four years, and so my tune settings are in some ways similar to or informed by his, and I have credited him for inspiration for a few tunes in the book -- not that these are tabs I got from him, but tunes that he inspired me to play.
Some tunes derive from the fiddle or the pipes or somewhere else, so they're not fiddle tunes per se, so the material is obviously different, because these are tunes from Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cape Breton, Shetland, Cornwall, the Isle of Man, Brittany and beyond.
Edited by - Tom Hanway on 01/18/2011 08:30:33
beenjammin - Posted - 01/19/2011: 07:38:41
Tom, any Newfoundland tunes in that book? this and the other 'celtic' threads inspired me to record a little sample of the way I handle these tunes; or not, perhaps i'm showing them a little early but oh well...
Blue Cheese - Posted - 01/19/2011: 08:16:28
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Hanway
Levi B.: I won't steer this thread off-topic, but quickly: we're trying to keep my mother-in-law Mona alive and make her comfortable, and late last night a full medical team arrived at Emergency in Waterford, phew, which is no easy feat in this country, where you're lucky even to get a bed. Fingers crossed.
I was playing tunes for senior citizens in a community hospital the other day, and 'O'Carolan's Concerto' is a very sacred tune to many of them because of what it represents in terms of Irish classical tradition, and because it's a majestic tune. Keeping it at a stately tempo is a good idea. What's the rush?
Slickstrings: I went to the proverbial "Tony Trischka College of Banjo", studying with him for nearly four years, and so my tune settings are in some ways similar to or informed by his, and I have credited him for inspiration for a few tunes in the book -- not that these are tabs I got from him, but tunes that he inspired me to play.
Some tunes derive from the fiddle or the pipes or somewhere else, so they're not fiddle tunes per se, so the material is obviously different, because these are tunes from Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cape Breton, Shetland, Cornwall, the Isle of Man, Brittany and beyond.
Well, My prayers are with your mother in law Mona.
Started working on Road to Lisdoonvarna and Morison's Jig! Lots of fun
Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/19/2011: 10:38:27
quote:
Originally posted by beenjammin
Tom, any Newfoundland tunes in that book? this and the other 'celtic' threads inspired me to record a little sample of the way I handle these tunes; or not, perhaps i'm showing them a little early but oh well...
The original (native) music from Newfoundland is not from Celtic *peoples* but from the Inuit ("people"), isn't it?
beenjammin - Posted - 01/19/2011: 10:58:55
yes and no. the Beothuck were on the Island and the Inuit and Innu are in Labrador and Quebec. Did you address the "native" issue in Cape Breton or New England? Newfoundland fiddling is considered to be distinct and very different from cape breton or other regions since it mixes english, irish, scottish, and french styles. the three tunes I posted are from two of the most famous Newfoundland fiddlers both from the west coast which was primarily french with a little scottish thrown in.
Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/19/2011: 12:52:12
Blue Cheese, great, 'Morrison's Jig' is a very traditional tune that is worth mastering. I have two versions of 'Road to Lisdoonvarna', one being a jig, the other a reel, so you'llhear how they're related. 'Out on the Ocean' is a good one to play as well, a real session standard. Go slow, and don't practice mistakes.... I'm here for ye.
Tom
Blue Cheese - Posted - 01/19/2011: 14:10:57
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Hanway
Blue Cheese, great, 'Morrison's Jig' is a very traditional tune that is worth mastering. I have two versions of 'Road to Lisdoonvarna', one being a jig, the other a reel, so you'llhear how they're related. 'Out on the Ocean' is a good one to play as well, a real session standard. Go slow, and don't practice mistakes.... I'm here for ye.
Tom
Okay, cool.
Once I get these tunes down I'll post a video on the thread of me attempting to play them. We'll see what happens!
- LB
Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/19/2011: 14:56:46
quote:
Originally posted by beenjammin
yes and no. the Beothuck were on the Island and the Inuit and Innu are in Labrador and Quebec. Did you address the "native" issue in Cape Breton or New England? Newfoundland fiddling is considered to be distinct and very different from cape breton or other regions since it mixes english, irish, scottish, and french styles. the three tunes I posted are from two of the most famous Newfoundland fiddlers both from the west coast which was primarily french with a little scottish thrown in.
Now we're talking. I'm all ears. Thank you brotherman. Teach us!
Blue Cheese - Posted - 01/28/2011: 07:02:38
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Hanway
quote:
Originally posted by beenjammin
yes and no. the Beothuck were on the Island and the Inuit and Innu are in Labrador and Quebec. Did you address the "native" issue in Cape Breton or New England? Newfoundland fiddling is considered to be distinct and very different from cape breton or other regions since it mixes english, irish, scottish, and french styles. the three tunes I posted are from two of the most famous Newfoundland fiddlers both from the west coast which was primarily french with a little scottish thrown in.
Now we're talking. I'm all ears. Thank you brotherman. Teach us!
Hey, guys!
I've been a bit under the weather so I haven't been able to make any videos etc. but hopefully (not 100 % as I have a basketball game tonight and school) I can whip a video tonight and post it over in the sound off of some Celtic/Irish stuff.
Constructive criticism would be very much helpful for me as I don't have any to listen to my playing except myself. :P
Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/03/2011: 20:25:50
Blue Cheese, teach us, brotherman!
Listen to yourself. Only you can be self-monitoring. Was that constructive enough?
I look forward to this. So many tunes, so little time.
Native Newfoundland Celtic music, from the diaspora, is few and far between in my limited experience.
Edited by - Tom Hanway on 02/03/2011 20:26:55
Blue Cheese - Posted - 02/04/2011: 09:18:56
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Hanway
Blue Cheese, teach us, brotherman!
Listen to yourself. Only you can be self-monitoring. Was that constructive enough?
I look forward to this. So many tunes, so little time.
Native Newfoundland Celtic music, from the diaspora, is few and far between in my limited experience.
Haha, okay ya. "The best players are their own toughest critics"
I'll post them tunes today :)
Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/04/2011: 18:50:50
Okay, cool, the next thing you have to do is memorize these, without having to look at the book, and concentrate on getting all the notes cleanly and evenly. Commit these to memory and get them under your fingers. Great start! One tune at a time. Keep going!
Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/05/2011: 06:26:01
Still waiting for beenjammin to tell us more about Newfoundland tunes from this far and wide corner of the Celtic diaspora.
Celtic peoples, especially the Scottish and Irish, are not indigenous to Newfoundland, and originally brought tunes with them from the old country. So did the French as did other Europeans. I'm sure they're hybrid forms, just as bluegrass and old-time music in the US are hybrids, and still evolving.
It would be interesting to hear about contemporary Celtic tune composers in Newfoundland, or even traditional tunes from the old country.
Do Celtic tune composers make up tunes in more of the Scottish or Irish tradition?
Do they play dance medleys as in Cape Breton, or are tunes more separate entities that are played in a solo style, more for listening?
I haven't heard anybody play any Celtic tunes or dance medleys from Newfoundland at sessions in Ireland or Scotland, though I'm sure plenty of tunes exist that can be used for dancing. My wife and I haven't heard them at sessions over here, though I reckon the reverse is not the case in Newfoundland, which probably has cultural ties to the oldest Celtic trad"itions. Interestingly, the Scottish music of Cape Breton is thought to be more "traditional" than the music found in Scotland today, because the latter has centuries of strong Classical influence, and at concerts a Classical programme inextricably connected to it, as evidenced by the Scottish Fiddle Orchestra (SFO).
Since geographically, Newfoundland is in the Celtic diaspora and is in close proximity to Cape Breton and Prince Edward Island, I would imagine that Newfoundland sessions would share tunes, traditions and stylistic tendencies with Cape Breton and Prince Edward Island, moreso than with the west coast of Ireland, say Clare, Sligo, or anywhere in Ireland. I reckon many of the oldest Celtic tunes found in Newfoundland come directly from the traditional tunes of Scotland and Ireland.
I wonder where the most fertile localities and best sessions were for Newfoundland Celtic tunes in the 20th century, and today? I reckon a lot of great traditional fiddlers have passed on and taken their music with them, as has happened to traditional jazz in New Orleans -- just a hunch.
That would be helpful, if beenjammin could point us in the right direction. Where can one go to hear this traditional Celtic music from Newfoundland?
Who are today's top players, fiddlers, composers, and bands playing in a traditional Celtic style in Newfoundland?
Any recommendations, beenjammin?
Edited by - Tom Hanway on 02/05/2011 06:50:01
beenjammin - Posted - 02/05/2011: 20:24:49
Well...this will likely take a while. My disclaimer is that I'm not a folklorist on Newfoundland so I can only give a cursory overview to mention some key points. I'm hesitant to even do more than name a few big names, but I'll try to give an extremely basic introduction to Newfoundland.
Newfoundland, was settled by various waves of English, Irish, and French, some Scottish (though the Scottish came via Cape Breton). Now the first thing that needs to be understand is that Newfoundland was settled for one reason only: cod. The Basque were the first to be fishing the grand banks; the cod they caught fed medieval Europe. For centuries it was the cause of wars and exploration. It was even a big factor in the decision for England to take possession of Canada from the French after the war.
The other important point is that Newfoundland has a long history of less than stellar economics. The cod fishery went through various waves of productivity. The economy throughout most of the history was based on Merchant Capitalism; the merchant would take the fish caught in exchange for goods like foodstuffs at nets (obviously its wasn't always a win-win situation). Eventually the cash economy came, labour was re-organized, full time fishermen appeared....etc. etc.
I'm just going to cite a link that seems to cover most of the information in case anyone is interested in learning more. A good skim-through should prove fairly interesting.
heritage.nf.ca/exploration/early_ex.html
Why did I feel the need to preface my introduction to Newfoundland music with a history lesson? Well, I'm an anthropologist and I have a hard time answering any question without a 40 minute lecture as to what social relationships had to conspire to bring us to the point in time where we can actually think of this question!
Annoyed? Sorry, my main point is that you can't understand Newfoundland music as separate from Newfoundland. I'm also guessing that most people know next to nothing about this province. So knowing a bit about the history helps.
Now for the music!
'traditional' music in Newfoundland has largely consisted of one fiddle, who may or may not always actually play the fiddle, many time it was the four stop accordion. The job of the fiddler was to keep the dance hall full of dancers all night, that one person would play for hours often only playing a couple tunes (they were dancing not listening). Typical of Newfoundland music was to play extremely fast and often arranging tunes as singles. The single as far as I can tell is unique to Newfoundland. This kind of traditional music was around at the time that vaudeville and minstrel were also popular. The guitar never appeared until the 1950's, and the first bodhran player was in 1975. It fell by the wayside as radios were bringing in american and Canadian music that was largely either country or jazz or rock.
Out of this you get a stream of Newfoundland music that is heavily country based but with a Newfoundland flair. You can hear this in the music of Harry Hibbs ( youtube.com/watch?v=nDsq87UC0yw ) or Joan Morissey ( youtube.com/watch?v=nloH_akwNWc ) or with a more contemporary, and rockin' feel Great Big Sea: ( youtube.com/watch?v=DOw3w-00Jq...ture=fvst ). all three of those are Newfoundland tunes. Ron Hynes is probably the single most famous Newfoundland musician. He's written songs that Ireland is convinced are traditional Irish songs. An example is sonny's dream: youtube.com/watch?v=ow50JHWW7g...e=related
There was to be a huge resurgence in the old traditional styles of fiddling and accordion playing pioneered by a few people from St. John's. This reflects the “folk scare” some refer to in the states only it was by no means a scare for anyone here. It would have died out entirely without it.
The French coast, which is the long western stretch of land was home to two of the best known fiddlers in Newfoundland: Rufus Guinchard and Emile Benoit. A short documentary on Rufus can be seen here: heritage.nf.ca/arts/rufus_video.html . Some info on Emile can be found here: pigeoninlet.com/emile.htm
Kelly Russell compiled hundreds of their tunes into a book that he has for sale here: pigeoninlet.com/kelly.htm
This is the only written source for the hundred of original tunes composed by these two fiddlers as well the traditional songs they played that were brought over from Europe.
What people do with the tunes now is more interesting in my opinion. I'll list some names and links to peruse.
Dwayne Andrews: duaneandrews.ca/
The Dardanelles: duaneandrews.ca/ (listen to Boyds Cove singles to hear the single)
Arts Stoyles: youtube.com/watch?v=v7vApdpsJL...e=related
Jim Payne: singsonginc.ca/bios/biojimpayne.html
Fergus O'Byrne (actually from dublin, a major figure in the folk revival): singsonginc.ca/bios/biofergus.html
some other contemporary artists that aren't specifically doing traditional music:
The Once: theonce.ca/news.htm
Amelia Curran: ameliacurran.com/
Dead Language: myspace.com/musicofdeadlanguage
Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/06/2011: 06:08:33
Beenjammin': Awesome post, good man yerself:
After doing some digging around before I saw your last post, I followed my hunches and see that British Broadside Ballads, Scottish folk songs, and Irish come-all-ye’s figure heavily in the folksong tradition of Newfoundland, which also boasts many maritime and fisherman songs. It’s a rich and multicultural song tradition, related to, but distinct from a strictly Celtic dance music tradition. In other words, it’s more about songs, sung in English, than Celtic tunes, not that many British Isles melodies, many Celtic, haven’t worked their way into Newfie songs.
I always hesitate to term the “trad” music of Ireland, Wales and Scotland as “British Isles” music, but in discussing Newfoundland music, this description seems apropos, given the mixing of music traditions from Britain, Scotland, Ireland, but also France (Acadian especially), Portugal and Spain. Good thread here in The Session, with germane links: thesession.org/discussions/display/11008
Many Newfoundland songs have strong connections to old Irish and Scottish airs, and many of these Newfie songs could be played instrumentally, as slow airs, reels, polkas, marches, jigs, and the like. I don’t know if that’s always the case in Newfoundland, but there’s still a treasure trove of Irish and Scottish material in this Celtic diaspora. One can also find a rich and pronounced French influence, Acadian, precursor to Cajun, especially its accordion music. But it doesn’t end there. American influences from the south have crept in over centuries and a cross-fertilization has taken place between Canada and the US. Newfoundland is quite unique and has its own Celtic associations, going in all kinds of directions.
‘Chin’ or ‘mouth’ music is akin to lilting back in the old country (Ireland and Scotland); it’s a vocal imitation of instrumental music that was used to keep tunes alive when instruments could not be played (for one reason or another). Chin is suitable for getting the music across so that people may dance. Lilting in old Ireland kept tunes alive when bans on playing musical instruments, especially bagpiping, were first imposed by British rule after the Flight of the Earls (early 1600s). The Irish and Celtic connection is plainly heard in Newfoundland chin music. I reckon much of the chin music has been lost to history, as people have died and left few if anyone to carry on their old songs.
So, it is true that Newfoundland has contributed profoundly to the continuation of Celtic singing traditions, perhaps not in Scottish or Irish Gaelic (because of the imperial English language), but in songs that have gone back and forth across the ocean, to Ireland, Scotland, and down south to the United States of America.
Here’s a beautiful example here, Karan Casey (of Atlantic Bridge and Solas fame) singing ‘She’s Like the Swallow’:
youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5Amh0NQiU
My simple reason for not putting in Newfoundland, British Isles and Celtic-influenced maritime songs, sea shanties, pirate songs, American bluegrass and old-time music in a book of Irish & Celtic tunes is because it is a tune book, focused specifically on instrumental and dance music from clearly defined Celtic sources, with an ear to sean-nós (Gaelic “old-style”) singing and melody.
The book and CD at times goes outside the music of the Six Celtic Nations (linguistic-cultural groupings) and includes tunes from the Celtic diaspora, but not songs sung in English, and there are so many! So, I kept the definition of Celtic fairly strict, using a linguistic-cultural-music-dance-tradition model. I could have included tunes from the even wider “Celtica”, from places where Celtic music and Celtic-inspired tunes are surely played, as in Galicia (notice the etymology) and Asturias. The Irish and Scottish influence is clearly felt and heard here. There's a blossoming tradition here!
By a broader logic, I could have included lots of old-time and bluegrass tunes that either sound Celtic or have clear Celtic antecedents or influences. But I didn’t go for the “everything is everything” approach, and I tried to stay clearly inside Celtic cultural traditions, music connected to old-style singing, either connected to a Celtic language, or from the Celtic diaspora, where the language might not be Celtic (usually English), but the immigrants came from native Celtic lands and brought their music with them. Mine was not an easy book to write, I tell you what, especially coming from a Scruggs and bluegrass tradition. I had to think outside the box and question a lot of my assumptions, and I went to experts to help me de-construct my thinking, biases, and playing techniques. So, everybody has to start somewhere, including me. Unlearning stuff, though, isn’t easy because it’s so culturally and musically conditioned, like playing reflexes for example!
Some obvious old-time, Canadian and bluegrass tunes (e.g., Leather Britches, Saint Anne’s Reel, Temperance Reel, Turkey in the Straw) did find their way into my Mel Bay compilation. Meanwhile, many modern-day composed tunes, hybrid and crossover forms were left out for consistency and for legal reasons (copyright). Everybody has a piece of the tradition, but nobody has it all! I got composers’ permissions to use tunes that were not in the public domain, which is no easy feat, and some said “no”. Others wouldn’t even let me use their photographs. Okay, so this person won’t appear in my book. What can you do? Keep on keeping on!
I tried to get the broadest, most inclusive spectrum for a comprehensive book on Celtic music (also for the CD), and focus on the best-loved session tunes and put them in the contemporary settings, also offering variations. I tried and continue to try to educate 5-string banjo players about Celtic variations in general, down to common Celtic ornamentation techniques, especially how these differ from bluegrass, rock or jazz improvisation. It boils down to staying within the mode and style.
I appreciate your posts, especially the last one, about Newfoundland music. Still currently-played Newfoundland Celtic session tunes are hard to find, in Ireland, even today on the internet, the most obvious historic (that I found), Celtic-inspired tune being ‘Ode to Newfoundland ‘ (composed by Governor Sir Cavendish Boyle in 1902). Go here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ode_to_Newfoundland
As I said before, I’m all ears. It’s no accident that a native Newfie would be much more in touch with what is Celtic about Newfoundland music – when it is Celtic – than folks who haven’t lived there and broken the bread with the people. So, you turned us on, at least you turned me on, and I’m grateful to have a new pan-Celtic tradition to explore!
Newfies rule, I’m a fan of the music now! God bless you! I have more links saved in my favorites, but, I'll save them for further discussion. Yours are more pressing at the moment.
It’s always a learning curve, isn’t it? 
Edited by - Tom Hanway on 02/06/2011 06:12:33
saphine - Posted - 02/06/2011: 07:47:43
I just wanted to add my tuppence worth re your book Tom. I found it yesterday in my local book shop and it has lifted my spirits no end. I'm the only 5 string banjo player in my area and am in a bubble of one at the jam sessions I go to. I'm made very welcome but end up playing Bluegrass tunes...solo all the way from start to finish with those that can joining in. Not the traditional way Bluegrass is played with everyone who can taking a break, it's just little old me. I'm worried I'll get boring although I'm always asked to play what I know. Recently I was advised to give up 5 string and get a tenor banjo if I wanted to play trad music...my heart sunk like a lead duck...this from a great musician in the traditional scene. In the past 24 hours I have found you and your music and it has excited me beyond belief to know I can learn to play the music making my heart sing at the moment, alongside my love of Bluegrass. I'm very firmly your latest fan.
Elizabeth
Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/06/2011: 11:32:06
quote:
Originally posted by saphine
I just wanted to add my tuppence worth re your book Tom. I found it yesterday in my local book shop and it has lifted my spirits no end. I'm the only 5 string banjo player in my area and am in a bubble of one at the jam sessions I go to. I'm made very welcome but end up playing Bluegrass tunes...solo all the way from start to finish with those that can joining in. Not the traditional way Bluegrass is played with everyone who can taking a break, it's just little old me. I'm worried I'll get boring although I'm always asked to play what I know. Recently I was advised to give up 5 string and get a tenor banjo if I wanted to play trad music...my heart sunk like a lead duck...this from a great musician in the traditional scene. In the past 24 hours I have found you and your music and it has excited me beyond belief to know I can learn to play the music making my heart sing at the moment, alongside my love of Bluegrass. I'm very firmly your latest fan.
Elizabeth
Elizabeth, ouch, I've been in your shoes, believe me. No worries. Have fun and keep playing. Practice. Love it.
Nobody can choose for you, and sometimes experts are so far up their own bungee cords that they can only hear their own egos/reality tunnels, thinking that they know it all because they are connected to a particular hip instrument and tradition.
The Scottish and Irish fiddle wasn't originally Celtic either, it came from Italy. I could go on.
So my advice is: be whom you are, follow your heart, and play the instrument/s and the music that you love, in the style/s that you choose to play it/them in, or play lots of instruments, and love them all, playing whatever tickles your fancy. It's like food. Some people are like babies about what they'll accept on their High Chairs. Haha.
Loud people, especially the big *men* with the put-down, will take your choices away from you, if you let them, and they don't really give a toss, being so in love with themselves. It's the same twelve notes and the 5-string banjo can go places that no other instrument can go.
Be whom you are. You already are. I know your pain. Laugh it off!
Edited by - Tom Hanway on 02/06/2011 11:46:46
saphine - Posted - 02/06/2011: 13:26:16
cheers Tom. Thankfully I'm a stubborn auld Scottish wifie. I'd made my mind up already I wasn't going to allow someone else's ego to dictate my musical learning. However I had no idea you were on the planet at the time otherwise I would have put Mr 'get rid of the 5-string' well and truly in his place. I'll be meeting him again in December, man do I intend to show him... and shut him up!
imac50 - Posted - 02/06/2011: 14:20:16
Elizabeth
I play the 5 string in a ceilidh band in Edinburgh. There is no reason why the tunes can't be played on the 5 string. We have the same notes as everybody else. I'm playing lead all the time along with our fiddle player. Over the years I've met people with closed minds but I'm still playing!
Iain
banjofanatico - Posted - 02/06/2011: 16:59:05
I don't know what that means - "Celtic tunes". The old Celtic tribes didn't play these tunes, and they are long gone - and they didn't play banjos. It's like calling Swedish people "Vikings". Hey, maybe someone on the hangout here could write a banjo book of old Swedish tunes and call it "Viking Banjo".
David
mikey5string - Posted - 02/06/2011: 17:32:07
quote:
Originally posted by banjofanatico
I don't know what that means - "Celtic tunes". The old Celtic tribes didn't play these tunes, and they are long gone - and they didn't play banjos. It's like calling Swedish people "Vikings". Hey, maybe someone on the hangout here could write a banjo book of old Swedish tunes and call it "Viking Banjo".
David
youre right. the book should have been called:
"tunes derived melodies which were part of an aural tradition spanning centuries* and mostly centered with ireland and other assorted regions in the vicinity arranged for 5 string banjo which had not yet been invented and used prominently in the music but is gaining popularity in modern times thus creating a demand for a book which arranges and transcribes these tunes for this instrument.
* at present time no known recording of ancient celtic tribes playing, humming or whistling these tunes exists. all information regarding has only been part of documented history and cannot be technically proven since, well, these people are long dead and cannot be questioned or asked to whistle a few bars from "The Masons Apron". Therefore it must be noted that all information herein in specualtive. enjoy"
that would clear up all the confusion that "Celtic 5-String Banjo" clearly causes.
Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/07/2011: 03:16:33
quote:
Originally posted by imac50
Elizabeth
I play the 5 string in a ceilidh band in Edinburgh. There is no reason why the tunes can't be played on the 5 string. We have the same notes as everybody else. I'm playing lead all the time along with our fiddle player. Over the years I've met people with closed minds but I'm still playing!
Iain
Great stuff Iain! I have Iain's work and it is top-notch. Quality music.
Thank you good posters (and cyber-critters) for helping to make the case for contemporary Celtic Banjo, now a worldwide phenomenon, with many fine works out on this emerging style.
Many forms of Celtic music are being played on the 5-string, not just across the Continental US, but in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England, Spain, Holland, Germany, Switzerland, Mexico, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Czech Republic, Italy, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and on and on. So it’s already a pan-Celtic music. Some folks may want to keep their heads buried in the sand, possibly being stuck in old reality tunnels. They’re left behind, waving their arms, but not playing the tunes. Oh well.
Many 5-string banjo players, of all ages, female and male, are getting Celtic tunes under their fingers, playing sessions all over the world, and some are beginning to gain real mastery of jigs, reels, hornpipes, slides, polkas, marches, strathspeys, and O'Carolan tunes – real Celtic music, in its myriad forms, part of a living tradition.
At sessions, real tune players would do better to ignore attention-seekers, especially children and miscreants, who seem to take a perverse joy in getting in the face of 5-string banjo players. They always want to hear the one from ‘Deliverance’ and would dumb down the instrument, not being skilled tune players themselves. Attention seekers are prone to glib remarks, maybe possessed by a sick fascination in disturbing others.
The serious tune player, playing Celtic 5-string banjo at sessions all over the world, is well endowed with common sense and leaves such nonsense to those less musical than himself.
Not for wiseguys: Learn to spot the difference between hijinks (good humor) and hijacks (negative trolling) in these forums, which has a few arm-chair quarterbacks, and don’t waste your time debating nonsense, or getting into non-sequitors.
Do practice tunes, one at a time, and master them, one at a time.
Mel Bay’s Complete Book of Irish & Celtic 5-String Banjo is now in its THIRTEENTH YEAR, and I have another Celtic project on the way, actually several. It helps being in Ireland, with different styles of Celtic music all around me.
Invective and satire is fine, even playing devil's advocate to make a valid point.
But be careful folks, don't mistaking trolling for good advice: spot thread hijacking, and point it out. The mods, in their experience, know what good information is and what subtle trolling is.
Do not feed garden-variety hecklers at sessions, and do not feed the pesky trolls in cyberspace. They just keep coming back. Tease them out, like cyber-fleas, odd specimens for the matchbox.
Edited by - Tom Hanway on 02/07/2011 03:30:40
imac50 - Posted - 02/07/2011: 03:19:02
I agree. That's why I play ceilidh music or traditional music instead. I rarely if ever call what I play Celtic music. However everything has to have a label nowadays and Celtic at least differentiates it from other forms. Norwegian and Swedish music is very interesting and I would label it Scandanavian rather than Viking....... or even traditional?
It's like the term Bluegrass. There are all sorts of subsets within it but it's a handy generic term for a certain style of American music.
What do you call my music anyway, David?
Iain
Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/07/2011: 03:53:39
Good point Iain. You did use the word "Celtic" for your recent work, so, it's obviously a handy term.
I tend to refer to the regional Celtic tradition I'm playing, whether it's an Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Cape Breton, or Shetland tune.
Celtic is an umbrella term, but it's the best term we have, imo, because it differentiates native Celtic styles from say "traditional" bluegrass.
"Traditional" is also an ambiguous term, since jazz, bluegrass, Irish, Scottish (and Celtic) players all use it. These types of discussions lead nowhere, imo. People love picking on a word.
It's the tunes that matter.
Please see my previous post mentioning "trolling", which takes us away from the important discussions: the actual music and playing traditions that combine to make Celtic music, which has many forms, related terms, and real meanings across the globe. We even talk of pan-Celtic music, and it means something real to people.
imac50 - Posted - 02/07/2011: 03:58:00
Yes, I prefer to pick tunes rather than words!
saphine - Posted - 02/07/2011: 07:59:12
For my info this has been a great thread. Will take on board the sagely advice given. Now my 1st question to myself is which tune to a learn 1st...chuckle! I play a version of Blackberry Blossom so I may start there as I have listened to all the tunes on your cd Tom, all quite delicious to my ear and equally difficult to choose from. I want my change of direction musically speaking to mean something to me, like our kids first step we always remember it. I will of course actually start with the exersizes as a matter of course. Thanks again chaps.
krisshewmake - Posted - 02/11/2011: 22:01:49
Tom/Iain do you play more two finger single string or threefinger melodic style in celtic/irish tunes?
imac50 - Posted - 02/12/2011: 04:28:43
quote:
Originally posted by krisshewmake
Tom/Iain do you play more two finger single string or threefinger melodic style in celtic/irish tunes?
I play in a melodic style but use single string when necessary. I like to play out of chord positions and roll as much as possible while still getting the tune. It all depends on the melody. A lot of pipe tunes are within in one octave so can be played out of the A chord at the 5,6,7 frets. You still have the open B and D to play with and often the G.
Iain
mikey5string - Posted - 02/12/2011: 07:00:59
quote:
I play in a melodic style but use single string when necessary. I like to play out of chord positions and roll as much as possible while still getting the tune. It all depends on the melody. A lot of pipe tunes are within in one octave so can be played out of the A chord at the 5,6,7 frets. You still have the open B and D to play with and often the G.
Iain
I love "pipe tunes". The uilleann pipes are one of my favorite instruments and paddy keenan one of my favorite players. I really love how Tony Furatdo does irish music on the 5-string as it sounds a lot like the pipes in terms of ornamentation.
Iain,
Are there any pipe tuunes that work particularly well on the banjo? I love the tune "ORourkes" which I have both Tony F and Paddy K playing. The similarities in their playing leads me to believe this tune works particularly well on the banjo.
mike
Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/12/2011: 07:15:22
quote:
Originally posted by krisshewmake
Tom/Iain do you play more two finger single string or threefinger melodic style in celtic/irish tunes?
quote:
Originally posted by imac50
quote:
Originally posted by krisshewmake
Tom/Iain do you play more two finger single string or threefinger melodic style in celtic/irish tunes?
I play in a melodic style but use single string when necessary. I like to play out of chord positions and roll as much as possible while still getting the tune. It all depends on the melody. A lot of pipe tunes are within in one octave so can be played out of the A chord at the 5,6,7 frets. You still have the open B and D to play with and often the G.
Iain
Interesting question, thank you for asking! Iain and I have spent days playing together in Edinburgh, hashing this out. Furtado, I know, is a heavy single-string player, tasty and clean. Top shelf!
Before going down this road, I would caution folks to remember that the technique should serve the music, not the other way around. Don't put the cart before the horse. Each tune is unique and we both use both techniques: it depends on where the melody notes fall on the neck, as Iain points out. Iain tends to roll more than I do, but not always. There are many tunes that we would play almost identically, since we're both concentrating on playing strict melody.
Iain and I both work out of standard G-tuning, though I have experimented with other tunings for certain tunes. I almost always stay in standard G, but I have no problem slapping on a capo to play in A major for something like 'Mason's Apron' or 'De'il Amang the Tailors' (Devil's Dream). Iain, trooper that he is, works out tunes in A with no capo, and it's amazing to watch him play tunes barely moving his left hand, getting all the notes as if by sleight of hand. It's one of the things I enjoy about his precise and economical phrasing. It looks cool!
Iain and I once sat down and played a tune, I can't remember which one now (Eighth of January?), and played in each other's styles, accidentally, at the same time, his style being slightly more melodic (in the sense of rolling across strings, one note per string), mine being slightly more single-string oriented. Our styles gel very well together, and it's only a matter of degree that mine is more single-string and his more melodic. We can both tend in the other direction when we feel like. No bother!
The main difference in our playing (and in our tabs) is that I tend to play more Irish ornamentation (turns, grace-notes, double-grace notes, note-hammer-pull-off triplets and more triplets), while Iain, a native of Edinburgh, Scotland plays bare-bones melodies suitable for local ceilidh dancing. His playing and tune medleys are geared more towards Scottish ceilidhs and gentlemenly social functions. My playing and tune medleys are geared more towards mad Irish sessions and barroom brawls (joke, sort of!), also for playing solo, for concerts, not dances.
I do more single-string work now than when I first started in this style, especially for jigs and reels, but, again, it all depends on the tune and where the notes fall comfortably on the strings. I sometimes have melodic and single-string approaches for the same tune, or for passages in it. Single-string has more of a staccato timbre, whereas melodic style has more of a flowing legato sound.
I tend to play in more of a melodic style for hornpipes, usuallyu owing to the wide intervals used in them. Many hornpipes lend themselves to more of a melodic style, but to go after certain ornamentation, I might go with single-string, sprinkling single-string variations (especially triplets) throughout a tune.
I also use a lot of left-hand ornamentation that doesn't really fit into the single-string/melodic paradigm. This ornamentation may be essential for a regional variation for a tune, or it might be improvised. Again, it all depends on the tune.
Both our works are strictly focused on Celtic melodies. Iain's are more Scottish and medley-oriented, mine more Irish and session-oriented, including tunes from the Six Celtic Nations and the Celtic diaspora.
Everybody has a piece of the tradition, but nobody has the whole thing.
Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/13/2011: 02:07:56
quote:
Originally posted by saphine
For my info this has been a great thread. Will take on board the sagely advice given. Now my 1st question to myself is which tune to a learn 1st...chuckle! I play a version of Blackberry Blossom so I may start there as I have listened to all the tunes on your cd Tom, all quite delicious to my ear and equally difficult to choose from. I want my change of direction musically speaking to mean something to me, like our kids first step we always remember it. I will of course actually start with the exersizes as a matter of course. Thanks again chaps.
Elizabeth, try 'Planxty Irwin' (Carolan). Okay, the version of Blackberry Blossom in my book derives from Irish fiddler Eileen Ivers and box player John Whelan, who heard Canadians playing the American old-time/bluegrass tune. It's a North American fiddle tune from the Celtic diaspora, but it's not the same tune as the old Irish 'Blackberry Blossom'. So this tune entered Irish traditional music proper through one of the world's top Irish fiddlers, Eileen Ivers. I've played it with her in the Bronx, too long ago, and she slows it down and makes it a bouncy hornpipe, though bluegrass players would tend to burn on it and play it as a breakdown, with a lot of drive.
The living Celtic music tradition, not an historical artifact or clever word-play, constantly evolves and absorbs music from outside the old borders, in the here and now, creating musical hybrids, crossover music, and new possibilities for the
tradition.
Yesterday on Irish radio, my wife and I were blown away by a contemporary Irish version of 'Gold Rush', the popular American fiddle tune that Bill Monroe & the Blue Grass Boys recorded.
It was a
savage rendition, in the modern Irish sense of the word.
Edited by - Tom Hanway on 02/13/2011 02:13:13
imac50 - Posted - 02/13/2011: 03:44:25
quote:
Originally posted by mikey5string
quote:
I play in a melodic style but use single string when necessary. I like to play out of chord positions and roll as much as possible while still getting the tune. It all depends on the melody. A lot of pipe tunes are within in one octave so can be played out of the A chord at the 5,6,7 frets. You still have the open B and D to play with and often the G.
Iain
I love "pipe tunes". The uilleann pipes are one of my favorite instruments and paddy keenan one of my favorite players. I really love how Tony Furatdo does irish music on the 5-string as it sounds a lot like the pipes in terms of ornamentation.
Iain,
Are there any pipe tuunes that work particularly well on the banjo? I love the tune "ORourkes" which I have both Tony F and Paddy K playing. The similarities in their playing leads me to believe this tune works particularly well on the banjo.
mike
Mike
One of the first tunes I worked out was the Athole Highlanders. I'd been trying to play it with a capo on the second fret for A. By taking it back to open tuning the tune just fell off the banjo! It was a Eureka moment. Other pipe tunes like Gille Callum (The Sword Dance), Crossing the Minch, The Drunken Piper... there are so many of them. I've just been working on two newer pipe tunes The Ewe with the Crooked Smile and Eliot's Wooden Spoon both in minor keys. All I need to do now is to set up a banjo marching band!
Iain
Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/15/2011: 16:55:03
quote:
All I need to do now is to set up a banjo marching band!
Iain
For folks who may be confused and are scratching their heads, Iain, being a native of Edinburgh, Scotland, refers to the Great Highland Bagpipe (GHB), generally played outdoors, standing or marching, not the uilleann pipe, the national bagpipe of Ireland, usually played indoors, sitting down. The GHB is much older.
These two instruments have different constructions, tunings, histories, tune repertoires, and playing techniques. The ornamentation is, you guessed it, also different.
Iain's pipe tunes would generally fall under Ceòl Beag ("Little Music"), popular Scottish music such as dances, reels, marches and strathspeys. There's also Pibroch (Piobaireachd), an art-form genre played solely by Scottish bagpipers, also known as Ceòl Mór, which is Scottish Gaelic meaning "Big Music", or "Great Music", hence the “Great Highland Bagpipe”.
Pipers still use the term to distinguish their older tradition from popular dance and country tunes, typically played by fiddlers, and marching 5-string banjo players like Iain, haha!
Good overviews here:
GHB:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hi...d_BagpipeUilleann pipes:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uilleann_pipesList of bagpipes:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_bagpipesBoth instruments are Celtic. Ireland used to have its own
píob mhór (great pipe), the Great Irish Warpipes (probably with only two drones), the same instrument that became today's GHB (now with three drones).
In Ireland, the Warpipes went into gradual decline, after the Nine Years' War, the breakdown of the native Irish aristocracy and the subsequent Flight of the Earls (1607), marking the end of Gaelic political order (early 1700s). Irish bagpipers lost their clan and piping privileges, and it is likely that many emigrated to Scotland so they could keep their honour and traditions with their piping cousins there.
The last surviving set of Great Irish Warpipes, with enormous drones, was preserved at the Pergamon Museum in Berlin, but it was destroyed by Allied bombing during WWII.
The uilleann pipes in Ireland has a fascinating and different story altogether.
Edited by - Tom Hanway on 02/15/2011 16:55:33
Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/15/2011: 18:04:32
Typo, (early 1600s), not 1700s: the third to last paragraph should read: In Ireland, the Warpipes went into gradual decline, after the Nine Years' War, the breakdown of the native Irish aristocracy and the subsequent Flight of the Earls (1607), marking the end of Gaelic political order (early 1600s). Irish bagpipers lost their clan and piping privileges, and it is likely that many emigrated to Scotland so they could keep their honour and traditions with their piping cousins there.
g3zdm - Posted - 02/16/2011: 03:59:55
Hmm! I play Athol Highlanders capoed up 2 from G.
Following Ian's post I might spend some time trying to work out an upcapoed version now .
(I managed that for some old time tunes in key of A like Red Haired Boy).
Great ideas and not enough time as I also want to have a go at the 10th HLI's Crossing of the Rhine as I was very recently introduced to that tune.
So many many Scots pipe tunes seem to have 4 parts which makes learning them take longer.
imac50 - Posted - 02/16/2011: 05:45:16
Yes, Tom, you are right. I jumped to the conclusion that the GHB is the one true bagpipe! Before anyone starts an argument, I apologise for the assumption. The domination of the GHB in Scotland is well known. There are other pipers of all kinds in Scotland and I should have included them. However, it is true that most of the pipe tunes that I play are from the Highland tradition and composed by various Pipe Majors.
In the interests of equality, here's a link to The Lowland & Border Pipers' Society, and their YouTube page.
lbps.net/
youtube.com/user/LBPSoc
g3zdm - Try it you might like it! I'm going have a look at HLI Crossing the Rhine. Should be fun.
Iain
AllanJ - Posted - 02/16/2011: 06:29:47
On the subject of pipes, Northumbrian pipe tunes like Sir Sydney Smith's March seem to work well on the 5-string.
g3zdm - Posted - 02/16/2011: 08:01:47
I have 2 variants of Sir Sydney Smith's on banjo.
I either play it more or less like the sheet music (melodic without many fill-ins).
I also often play it "bluegrassed up" - faster and with extra notes and rolls - bluegrassers love that, even though they aren't normally familiar with the tune.
However, staunch traditionalists hate the BG version that I play - and often don't even recognise the melody unless I tell them in advance what I am playing.
It's a great number for winding up the conservatively minded trad folks when played that way 
Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/17/2011: 02:44:44
Good on you Chris! Own it! I'll give some tune examples of how Celtic-inspired 5-string players can adapt uilleann pipers' "crans" and "rolls" - which are ways of decorating basic notes of a tune, often by playing five notes in the space of a dotted quarter note (a.k.a. dotted crotchet), in the space of a quarter note and an eighth note. So it's not putting three notes in the space of two.
So it's not contingent on a right-hand triplet pattern: Hammer-ons and pull-offs are key to pulling off this kind of piping ornamentation. The extra notes (decorations) are written as grace notes. It's fairly straightforward once you get the hang of it.
Edited by - Tom Hanway on 02/17/2011 02:59:00
AllanJ - Posted - 02/17/2011: 03:49:55
Sir Sydney bluegrass style! please put up a recording! Not sure what reaction that'd get at my local sessions but I'd love to hear it. I normally play the basic melody and fill in with brushed chords here and there.
I'm trying to work out "Sir John Fenwick's the flower amang them all", it a lovely tune an seems to fall well on 5-string.
Cheers
Allan
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