DanKnowles - Posted - 03/24/2010:  17:54:58

ENGRAVING T-HOOP 1

Well here we go, engraving, metal engraving.

My metal engraving is a bit different in approach from any that I have seen. I approach engraving on metal similar to a wood carver (which I am) instead of like a traditional metal engraver. I've never trained with anyone at this and I developed some unconventional approaches to this. I've read quite a bit about 'correct' techniques and when I try them they just feel strange to my hands. Anyway this is how I scratch out this stuff.

First I start by drawing out my pattern. Here I'm drawing the parameters for the design.



Laying out the total aria.



Sketching out a pattern.



Using a very sharp knife I cut out the pattern making a stencil.



Using a permanent marker I maark through the stencil putting the design on the hoop.



The design on the hoop.



Now using a graver driben by my copper mallet I start engraving. Always driving the graver toward me, never away, never pushing the graver. Carving the brass.



First cuts.



More graving.



Three section engraved.

DanKnowles - Posted - 03/24/2010:  17:58:56

John,

Thanks, I'm glad I am too!

David,

As a FYI, all of my photo are taken using ambient light, no flash. Sometimes I'll shoot photos outside and those are the ones I like best.

jbalch - Posted - 03/24/2010:  19:22:59

Hey Dan:

Have you decided about plating the metal?

DEmery - Posted - 03/24/2010:  19:37:19

Dan, since I have a fair amount of your wood and metal engraving...I find it interesting to see how your technique works.You have seen my Flesher Jubilo. Very different work. Both work great but have looks of its own. Glad to see you posting again. David E.

DanKnowles - Posted - 03/25/2010:  17:12:31

John.
I've been thinking about diamonds, plating with diamonds that is...

truthfully, no although I'm leaning towards the silver again.

David,

As I was engraving today, I got to thinking about Goshen. Isn't her engraving similar to this one?

DEmery - Posted - 03/25/2010:  17:21:39

Dan, it is very similar to Goshen. The silver plate should have a nice affect. The antique brass probably gives different emphasis. If you don't spend a lot of time polishing silver, the engraving seems to have opportunity to darken and give a great contrast. David E.

Edited by - DEmery on 03/25/2010 17:28:47

DanKnowles - Posted - 03/25/2010:  17:34:30

ENGRAVING T-HOOP #2

Well here we are back to the engraving again. Today I tried to shoot some photos which would do a better job of showing my technique. When I looked at the photos later I don't think I quite got it. I'll try to do better tomorrow.

This is looking over the mallet down the graver towards me. I'm using a flat graver which I roll in my finges to vary the line width.



Here I'm using a gaver which was ground from an old half round needle file. This one cuts a very fine clean line.



After the basic lines have been cut, the marker is washed off from the metal with alcohol. This allows me to see where I am in the work cycle.



Here it is so far.



The flower shave is made using a small nail set, its tip has been ground to a point. I have several of these of different size and with different amounts of point.



Here I'm using an even smaller set. This technique is called 'Pave' in the jewlers trade.



Here are a couple of shots of the today's work. I've gotten nearly half way around the hoop.

jbalch - Posted - 03/25/2010:  18:53:23

Dan:

Silver sure is nice...you remember this one?

DanKnowles - Posted - 03/26/2010:  17:20:10

John,
How could I forget that beautiful SILVER banjo?

DanKnowles - Posted - 03/26/2010:  18:22:27

ENGRAVING T-HOOP #3

Last night I promised some clearer photos of my method of engraving, so here goes.

First this is my basic tool hold. My thumb on top, three fingers below, the little finger anchored on the work. Please note the tool angle. Too steep no movement, too shallow no cut.









After all the basic lines are in the marker is washed off. Here it is after that first round.



Here the smallest nail set is used to pave' the flower shape. Note the angle that the set is being driven.





A liner is used to create little hash or vein markes on the leaves.



Design complete.

DanKnowles - Posted - 03/27/2010:  18:43:28

ENGRAVING T-HOOP #4

Back at the engraving again...
I won't write much this time. Here are the photos...

Stating a new one.





Widening the first cut.



Cutting petals.





Engraving leaves.




The mallet and Bradon.



Washing the marker.



Pave'



Complete.

DEmery - Posted - 03/27/2010:  19:46:20

Dan. I didn't want to wander off to sleep without seeing what progress has taken place on the ole' banjo. Looks like the hoop should wrap soon. The rim has been carved. So, where is the tail piece. Suspect you will make one and engrave it as well. Got a design mapped out? You built two of these. Not bad...hey? David E.

Edited by - DEmery on 03/27/2010 20:07:40

Jubilo by Flesher

DanKnowles - Posted - 03/28/2010:  17:37:05

David,
You are correct, the tailpiece is not far off, possibly this week. Yes I'm planning on engraving the tailpiece. Although I don't have the design drawn out, I've have got one in the back of my head that's just about ready to pop out, like the morel mushrooms.

DanKnowles - Posted - 03/28/2010:  17:37:10

David,
You are correct, the tailpiece is not far off, possibly this week. Yes I'm planning on engraving the tailpiece. Although I don't have the design drawn out, I've have got one in the back of my head that's just about ready to pop out, like the morel mushrooms.

dbrooks - Posted - 03/28/2010:  18:04:53

Dan, your documentary skills are beginning to rival your artistic skills. Well, I guess they srping from the same font. You are giving us amazing insights to your creative and technical prowess and process. Since I have heard your music, I can't wait to hear some tunes on this amazing banjo.

David

DanKnowles - Posted - 03/29/2010:  19:08:20

David,
Thanks, This whole thing has been a learning process for me. Documenting both photographically and literally.

DanKnowles - Posted - 03/29/2010:  19:34:00

ENGRAVING & a surprise

Almost there.

Today I finished engraving all but the last couple of spaces on the hoop. It's not that this takes so long to accomplish it's more all the other projects that call me. If I only didn't have to make a living... where is that MacArthur Fellowship when you need it!

Again this is mostly photos... they should be almost self explanatory by now.









This last photo is of the sound hole of a 00 sized guitar which I am building. The design is of a fish which has been hooked on a fly. There will be a fly and l line going over to the fingerboard and the to a fisherman inlayed in the fingerboard. The fishermans image is of my client.

I really enjoy doing these fret work rosettes. This is the way these are done.

Before the braces are installed a patch of sassafras veneer is glued on the inside of the top. Its grain is oriented cross of the tops grain. Then the outside of the fish shape is cut out of a piece of ebony. This piece also has its grain oriented 90 degrees from the top wood grain. This is done to make a little bit of plywood, a wood sandwich for strength sake. Then tiny holes are drilled in each of these soon to be open spaces. A large (0 size) jewelers saw blade is threaded into the hole. The hole is enlarged per the design and it is all cleaned up with small files and sandpaper.

DanKnowles - Posted - 04/01/2010:  04:29:00

LAST T-HOOP ENGRAVING

Well for those of you who are enamored with tiny chisels and miniature mallets, I am sorry, today will be the last day of engraving for a while.

The tension hoop engraving is now complete. Soon I'll be on to the tailpiece which I'll scratch out), plating, detailing and putting the sucker together.

But for today here is the last of the engraving.









After all of the engraving is complete the whole hoop is sanded first with 800 grit then progressively to 2000. This is in preperation for plating for which the surface must be smooth. The plating is thin enough that any marks and scratches will show through. I'm sure each of you has seen factory work that is not smooth or well plated. This is usually because of insufficiant surface preparation.




Here are some photos of the completed work.

Bagpussfrog - Posted - 04/01/2010:  05:01:16

really lovely engraving Dan. How far are we from assembly?

dubtom - Posted - 04/01/2010:  05:26:40

Mmmm, I'd be worried the plating would fill all your excellent ingraving Dan, but that just shows what I know.

Stringbean45 - Posted - 04/01/2010:  12:45:23

You do, do some pretty good scratching Dan.

DanKnowles - Posted - 04/01/2010:  19:24:26

Shaun,
We are still several weeks out from putting it together. Even as we speak the finish is being perfected. It will need to cure for a bit. And after all of this "scratchin' " plating will need to be accomplished and that will be somewhat determined by the folks who do my plating.

Tom,
Yes it will tend to soffen the crisp edges some. All in all though the engraving is quite deep.

Strang,

I'm glad your watchin' and enjoyin' this project. Thanks so much!

Edited by - DanKnowles on 04/01/2010 19:30:44

DanKnowles - Posted - 04/01/2010:  19:46:33

STARTING on the TAILPIECE

Today I started making the tailpiece. I've made several of these. The first I believe, was made for David Emery's ebony banjo Sherry Lynn. As always I'll try to show this step by step.

Here I am holding the pattern for the tailpiece, it was made from 1/8" plexiglass.



Here the shape is being marked on .130 thick brass sheet.





I clamped the brass to my work bench and using a jewelers saw cut it out.





Then using the oscillating spindle sander the edges were smoothed.



Lastly, lines demarcating the teeth and the bottom bend are made.

DanKnowles - Posted - 04/02/2010:  20:03:43

T-P FORMED

Well friends, here I am back again foolin' with this pesky little piece of brass. And it ain't big, just about 1" x 1.5" . Still it's something that I enjoy doing making these tailpieces. It almost makes me feel like a real jeweler. It is real satisfying watching this little bugger come to life... here we go!

I've got this old wheel wrights vice that I loaded the blank into, making sure the bend line is even with the top of the jaws of the vice. A few good whacks with my 2 1/2 lb. ball peen hammer and it bends over nicely.




There 'tiz.



Next I marked the bottom line of the string hooks.



Using my Dremel with a cut off disk a groove for the string hooks are made.



Then using a cone shaped bit the inside edge is formed.



A flat sided bit cleans and shape the spaces between the hooks.



After all the Demel work is complete I grabbed up a diamond file and started to round the hooks. This winds up all the time I had to spend on the tailpiece today. Tomorrow I'm going to try and finish shaping, then sanding and polishing in preparation for engraving.

I'm thinking on some other ideas for engraving on the tension hoop. I like my floral design but I keep thinking that something with more of a river theme might be better. I've got another hoop so...

dubtom - Posted - 04/03/2010:  06:14:53

You make it look so easy Dan. My first surprise was the jewelers saw,I'd have used an industrial grinder

maryzcox - Posted - 04/03/2010:  11:47:23

Dan,
I think this may be the nicest banjo in the world. Can't wait to see and hear it.
Best wishes,
Mary Z. Cox

DanKnowles - Posted - 04/03/2010:  17:56:55

Tom,

That's cause y'all got to be much smarter than me. I like using the Jewelers saw over a cut off wheel, it's slower and I'm sure that there are many more accurate ways, I know. What can I say... I just like it.

Mary

Thank you so much. I ought to be finished with it by Uncle Dave Days. And if you are there and I am there I'll be proud to have you make Othello sing masterfully!

Edited by - DanKnowles on 04/03/2010 18:00:01

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 04/03/2010:  18:17:03

quote:

---

Originally posted by maryzcox

Dan,
I think this may be the nicest banjo in the world.

---

DanKnowles - Posted - 04/03/2010:  18:31:17

TAILPIECE #2

Well folks, today I finally got the tailpiece ready to start the engraving. It is shaped, polished and all. I brought my engraving vice, tools and tailpiece home and if all goes well I might be able to engrave it tomorrow afternoon. If I do, I'll post then.

Meanwhile...

Continuing on withe (early English spelling!) the shaping of the string hooks. Using 220 sandpaper rolled and folded I sand shape the posts. This is much like polishing shoes. How many of us remember polishing shoes? When I was a boy we had to polish our shoes, and they were checked, each Sunday before church. Well that's what this is like. The sandpaper is threaded between the posts and is buffed back and forth and around softly shaping the posts.










Here it is after this go 'round.





A flar file is used to softly round the edges and a round file is used to ease the bent area.

Next using the peen end of a ball peen hammer with the tailpiece gently laid across the open jaws of my wheel wrights vice, the tailpiece is gently banged into a 12" radius. Then it is further sanded.



You will note that the joint area is still a bit rough. This was cleaned and smoothed with a small flat diamond file. Then it is sanded with 800 grit and Micro Mesh to 12000.



Here it is all slicked up and ready to engrave. I really like the fact that these knobbs, hooks or whatever are not mechanically uniform, instead their shaping shows the touch of the human hand.

DEmery - Posted - 04/04/2010:  07:36:38

Great TP Dan. Unless you made one of these before Sherry Lynne and have used it...my experience is that it sets well on the tension hoop with nothing but string pressure. I have used it with wire and nylon and the function works just as well either way. Of course you engraved the second one for me and it provides enough space to do nice, delicate work that should flow with your theme. I had no clue which way you would go on the TP but it is a pretty style, doesn't detract from the banjo with mass, and works so well. David E.

dbrooks - Posted - 04/04/2010:  09:04:11

The tailpiece is elegant in its simplicity and in the quiet, personal statement that it makes. I agree, Dan, that its small variations reflect the presence of a human hand.

David

dubtom - Posted - 04/04/2010:  15:50:49

quote:

---

Originally posted by DanKnowles

Tom,

That's cause y'all got to be much smarter than me. I like using the Jewelers saw over a cut off wheel, it's slower and I'm sure that there are many more accurate ways, I know. What can I say... I just like it.

---

Quickstep192 - Posted - 04/04/2010:  18:19:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by dbrooks

The tailpiece is elegant in its simplicity and in the quiet, personal statement that it makes. I agree, Dan, that its small variations reflect the presence of a human hand.

David

---

DanKnowles - Posted - 04/04/2010:  19:40:44

Marc,
Thanks so much. Perhaps I can get up your way and we can pick some. BTW I really enjoy your recordings, especially the electric banjo. I've used all sorts of effects on my banjo over the years but never distortion like that. You've made me want to put my Jones pickup back on and git back rockin'! Metalica meets Grandpa Jones!

David,
Yes Sherry Lynn is the first of my banjos with this TP. I've always liked the style, sound and placement of the no-knot, but in this day and age of factory looped strings Ive felt that the extra set of pins was over kill.

David
Thank you.

Tom,
No I think you misunderstood me. I think your way is much, much smarter than mine. So much quicker. Some times this ole' tap, tap tappin' on the ole' keyboard doesn't really say it the way I mean to. I appreciate each of you who read and comment. I have spent most of my life doing this stuff, by myself, showing no one. I feel privileged that y'all are interested enough and caring enough to read this mess and take you precious time comment. This means a lot to me. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Edited by - DanKnowles on 04/04/2010 19:43:38

dbrooks - Posted - 04/06/2010:  04:33:26

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by quickstep192

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that tailpiece won't stay simple for long. I predict future pictures showing beautiful engraving.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You make a good point. There have been several times when I thought Dan had reached a stopping point and he dazzled me yet again.

David

Quickstep192 - Posted - 04/06/2010:  10:45:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by dbrooks

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by quickstep192

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that tailpiece won't stay simple for long. I predict future pictures showing beautiful engraving.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You make a good point. There have been several times when I thought Dan had reached a stopping point and he dazzled me yet again.

David

---

DanKnowles - Posted - 04/08/2010:  08:37:18

IN MEMORY

This post is dedicated to the memory of my great friend, Blues man, Historian, Psychologist and philosopher DAN EMERSON, who passed away Monday morning after battling brain cancer for three years.



ENGRAVING TAILPIECE

Here after all of your kind and patient waiting the tailpiece is engraved.

First the tailpiece had to be mounted in a fixture to hold it in place. I tried just using my vice, no dice. It kept slipping out. I guess I slickerd it up too much! Anyway I stuck it here using two tiny brads and two upholstery tacks.



The line here is the horizon line or perhaps the top edge of the river water. Here the engraving is started.



As the line is engraved the graver is rotated side to side creating a nice moving wavy line, hopefully expressing the movement of water.



Water continues...





After a 'floater', a log floating in the river is engraved, pave' is done to texture and create the movement of water.



Complete...

Bagpussfrog - Posted - 04/08/2010:  08:47:25

That tailpiece is looking great Dan, and I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend.

Best
Shaun

Edited by - Bagpussfrog on 04/08/2010 08:48:22

Quickstep192 - Posted - 04/08/2010:  10:42:00

Dan, My heart aches for your loss. Assuming that the picture you included was recent, he was taken from you (us) way to soon. I'm terribly sorry for your loss. Cancer sucks.

DanKnowles - Posted - 04/10/2010:  13:15:18

Thank you each for your concern and sympathy.

TAILPIECE CONTINUED

Today I'm starting out making a set of tools. These are going to be several sizes of 1/2 moon shapes to create waves with.

First I went down to the lumber yard, Paris Building Supply to be exact. I really dislike going to places like Lowes. Large companies like this and Wal-Mart are destroying our local businesses with abandon and we line up (myself included) to save money (supposedly), lower the quality of items we purchase and in the process end many of our neighbors jobs. Oddly, at least with lumber yards, not only is the quality usually better than Lowes or Home Depot, but the price and wood choice is better. It just may not be so convent. Nuff preachin'!

I bought 3 different size nail sets, gowned the tips to give that half moon shape.





Here is the tailpiece through the magnifying light, ready to be worked on.



The new tool in action.



Here is the tailpiece after engraving, I'm not real tickled with this, it's not clear enough.



So, grabbing up my orbital sander and sanded the engraving flat.



Most of it sanded off. It's ready for a redesign.

DEmery - Posted - 04/10/2010:  18:13:11

Well heck Dan. Guess it is part of the benefit of working on your own stuff. If it ain't good enough...grind er' down and start over. David E.

Bastertone - Posted - 04/11/2010:  14:31:52

Dan,
Is that the underside of the tail your engraving?

DanKnowles - Posted - 04/11/2010:  17:58:42

David,
Ya, that's so. Still it doesn't matter if it is mine or somebody else's project, do the same thing. If I'm not happy about the work my clients never see it.

Bastertone,
I don't know if you realize how easy it'd be to mess up your name... Yes, those are the remains of the old engraving.

dbrooks - Posted - 04/11/2010:  18:20:33

Dan, I think Bastertone's question was whether you were engraving the top or bottom of the tailpiece. Based on the shape of most tailpieces, the right-angle bend would fit over the edge of the rim with the fan of the tailpiece extending toward the bridge. This would put your engraving on the underneath side.

I wondered the same thing, but I was going to wait for the puzzle to reveal itself. I've enjoyed the surprising twists so far.

David

DanKnowles - Posted - 04/11/2010:  18:37:07

DOIN' IT AGAIN

Well here we go again. The last try just wasn't up to par, so here I go again. Drawing.



I hadn't stuck Huck Finn in this one yet so here I'm gonna try...



Starting to engrave again.





I like this photo although it doesn't really show the engraving action. I just like the contrast.





Almost there...



I like this one too.







Finished!

devoall - Posted - 04/11/2010:  22:01:07

I like the Huck Finn design!

At first glance, I thought it was the graphic that "Bozo Texino" the famous hobo freight-train rider used to draw on box cars all around the country. Great job as usual.

roy.carpenter - Posted - 04/12/2010:  03:52:50

Beautiful! You're a real inspiration to get my old banjo projects back on track. Thanks for sharing. Roy

DanKnowles - Posted - 04/13/2010:  20:06:32

Thank y'all...

TENSION HOOP #2

Although I really liked the first tension hoop engraving, I have decided to create something that has more of a river motif to it. The Huck Finn tailpiece really helped send me in this direction.

Here is how it is happening...

First all of the locations of the brackets are marked with a large permanent marker. I don't want any important details covered by brackets.

Then using a fine line permanent marker I lay out a horizon line. The hills sky and such will be above this. I guess it should be called a bank, not a horizon line.





Then I draw in some hills.



Next I add some defining lines. Then using a liner graver I give the hills some shape.





Then I draw in some boats with fishermen.





Then engrave them...



Add some marks to remind us of water and wala, here this panel is done.

Edited by - DanKnowles on 04/13/2010 20:11:25

BNJOMAKR - Posted - 04/14/2010:  05:29:15

Good idea, Dan. This engraving better fits the theme of the banjo. I like it!
Marvin