DanKnowles - Posted - 12/14/2009:  19:34:37

David,
I like that Cursus magnus...although it does sound to me Like Curses!?

John,
Tell ya what, next time I've got a batch of fingerboards to do I'll call you up so you can come over and I'll teach you all the fingerboard tricks. Then maybe you could show me some of your real fingerboard tricks!!!

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/14/2009:  19:53:11

My good friend David Emery suggested that I introduce the idea of something I call rim ringing. This is a technique I developed from building guitars and mandolins. Basically it is taping and listening.

First the philosophical basis for this.

A few years ago (maybe quite a few, more than I care to admit) the collector-Luthier Hollis Mayo told me that one could go through a group of electric guitars (say Telecasters), rap the face of the instrument and listen to the tone produced. Then take the most appealing sounding ones and plug them in and play them. Follow that with the unappealing sounding ones, plug them in and play them and see which ones you like best. He said that the ones with the most musical tap tone would be the the most appealing. My thought was "Hogwash, electric guitars sound like they do because of their electronics!" So I tried his idea out and was he ever right.

Since this time I have rapped almost every available piece of wood. I love listening to the sounds which wood makes. Even a 2x4 stud can sound interesting. Although I have no empirical scientific evidence, still after tapping loads of these rims I have come to the opinion that the basic tone or the sound which most predominates or colors the banjo is found in the rim. There are other factors which affect the tone in greater or lesser degrees, These are scale length, types of woods in the fingerboard and neck, tone rings & associated hardware. Yet the rim is the heart of the instrument.



This being said the way I tap and listen is this: Holding the rim, with two fingers slightly above my head, with the lower edge of the rim at ear level, I tap the outside of the rim, approximately at the 4 O'Clock position and listen. Here things become much more subjective and informed by experience.



Because there is no 'right' tone, only the tone one is aiming for in the completed instrument, I can not give the Holy Grail of what tone to listen for. Still the basic sound I listen for is a lively, musical, appealing and slightly xylophonic sound. I do not listen for pitch as such, only tone.

I also rap and listen to rims as I am turning them on the lathe and this is often a good go by. I believe that if one takes the time to listen to the wood it will tell how it wishes to be built.

MYLO - Posted - 12/14/2009:  21:35:28

Dan ,
I need to get over there and check this banjer out.

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/14/2009:  21:53:49

Mylo,
Come on up!

bordertownbrown - Posted - 12/15/2009:  05:07:32

Dan,
I have been tapping and listening to the rims I am working on now, there are nineteen total, a few are solid Texas ebony the rest are a combination of mesquite and Texas ebony, all with an ebony tone ring and some with a ebony rim cap. The range of tone is incredible, I have also noticed after removing a rim from its face plate and tapping it while it still has some remnants of glue and paper left on the face, the dampening effect of this little bit of paper is tremendous.

Gomer - Posted - 12/15/2009:  08:21:43

I was tapping a rim when I missed and hit me head. My head makes a very musical tone which reverberates to the hollow confines.
Now,. . . back to the ebony banjo.

Edited by - Gomer on 12/15/2009 08:22:30

bordertownbrown - Posted - 12/15/2009:  08:24:33

I think that's a result of the shrinking grey matter, I have the same problem!

Steve Stroot - Posted - 12/15/2009:  12:49:21

Name suggestion: "Black Beauty" Simple yet perfectly descriptive.

Ronnie - Posted - 12/15/2009:  13:24:15

I have had the honor of playing the Sherry Lynne. Dan does beautiful work!!

jbalch - Posted - 12/15/2009:  15:06:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gomer

I was tapping a rim when I missed and hit me head. My head makes a very musical tone which reverberates to the hollow confines....

---

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/15/2009:  18:23:10

Richard,
Isn't it interesting how each little thing effects the sound. Sometimes I get so engrossed in taping and listening that I forget everything else going on around me.

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/15/2009:  18:55:27

Mark
Your comment reminds me of something which happened to me in my very early years of lutherie.

It must have been 30 or so years ago. I was in those days (sounds like a Christmas story, I guess I've been teaching too many carols this month!) doing all of my turning on a lathe which my grandfather built. This old lathe had no on or off switch. I had prepaired to turn a banjo rim. It was glued to a faceplate and hooked to the chuck. A few days previous I had been tuning some small tool handles.

Now mind you when turning small objects the speed is quite fast and when tuning large objects, like banjo rims the speed is kept quite slow.

In my wisdom I didn't reset the speed.

Sam my son was with me in the shop, he was about three years old, standing on a step ladder watching, at what I thought was a safe distance. The plug was on the back side of the lathe. I plugged it into the socket walked around the lathe to my work position. Too late I realized the lathe was going wide open. I had never seen a large object turn so fast. The face plate came loose from the chuck, it along with the banjo rim. It hit the lathe bed spinning furiously. Although it was spinning towards me it hit the bed and shot off in the opposite direction. On the way to destroying itself in the ceiling joists, it lightly grazed my three year olds head.

Fortunately, Sam only required a butterfly bandage and nothing more. Lots was learned that day.

By the way, Sam has grown up to be a fine fella and a great craftsman. He works as a master stair builder.

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/15/2009:  19:13:53

Back to the neck again! After removing clamps (there are those pesky clamps again) the faces are again trued. The trussrod is installed in its slot (it must fit tightly) and a covering of masking tape is applied to keep glue out of the rod and slot.



A fingerboard was created earlier out of ebony 3\16" thick. This was slotted using a table saw jig and Stu Mac template, it is slotted to a 25 1/2" scale. This is then located on the neck blank and is indexed using two small brads drilled and driven through two fingerboard fret slots. Glue is applied to the underside of the fingerboard and it is glued to the neck block. It is clamped using a 1 1/2"x1 1/2"x12" piece of squire steel tubing, a lot of clamps and set aside. As a side note only epoxy is used to glue the neck. I do not feel comfortable using water based glues on necks. The wood is dry and aged and I don't wish to add moisture to it at this point

Edited by - DanKnowles on 04/02/2010 20:26:33

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/15/2009:  19:19:29

Steve,
I like that name since Black Beauty was as I recall, a race horse.

Ronnie,
Thank you for your kind comment. I'm glad you got to play Sherry Lynn, I wish she was closer so I could play her more often... I guess that's why I'm trying to build a similar one for me.

Ronnie - Posted - 12/15/2009:  23:58:49

Dan, if I ever run into some extra money, I will leave the Ashborn guitar with you for a while. Any progress on your Ashborn?

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/16/2009:  05:15:49

Ronnie
I've got to much of other folks stuff to keep up with, I've only gotten started.

Edited by - DanKnowles on 12/16/2009 17:01:38

maryzcox - Posted - 12/16/2009:  10:13:37

Hope I'll get a chance to hear this banjo in July?

jbalch - Posted - 12/16/2009:  15:00:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by maryzcox

Hope I'll get a chance to hear this banjo in July?

---

vt picker - Posted - 12/16/2009:  15:10:23

what does the ebony banjo weigh? did i miss that? very cool looking
Black Gold
Texas Tea
Oil that is...

-kelly

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/16/2009:  16:58:47

Kelly
I wouldn't think it is as heavy as your Gibson. Perhaps David would be kind enough to weigh Sherry Lynn (remembering how sensitive about their weight) and post it here.

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/16/2009:  17:23:06

John,
It's nice to see that photo. It brings back good memories of a fine day!

DEmery - Posted - 12/16/2009:  17:30:59

It was tough to get her to step up to the scale...but I grabbed Sherry Lynne by the neck and encouraged her a little. After a couple of efforts to be sure I got the same weight twice, the ebony banjo weight is 8.5 pounds. To give you some contrast, I put the Jubilo (Bob Flesher's custom banjo site and see the Jubilo. This is the first one issued and is maple.) Jubilo pushes the scale to 6.5 pounds. The ebony banjo carries an extra two pounds. It is detectable but the ebony banjo is well balanced and comfortable.

jbalch - Posted - 12/16/2009:  19:36:50

quote:

---

Originally posted by DEmery

...The ebony banjo carries an extra two pounds. It is detectable but the ebony banjo is well balanced and comfortable....

---

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/17/2009:  05:23:39

Today I make the heel cut. This banjo is to be straight sided so fitting the neck to the rim is a relatively quick process.



the neck is placed in a fixture which when properly used will make a 12" radius heel cut. The fixture consists of a 12" radius half disk which has a cut out for a band saw blade. This is clamped to the bandsaw table. A mating fixture with a matching radius holds the neck blank. The neck is fed through the bandsaw creating the cut.



A similar fixture is on the orbital disk sander. The heel cut is further smoothed and trued. Then a third similar jig is on the router table and the bracket band rabbit is cut.

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/17/2009:  05:26:08

David,
Thanks for weighing Sherry Lynn and posting the results. I tried to weigh my dog in a similar style and it didn't work nearly so good.

Gomer - Posted - 12/17/2009:  08:36:31

Thanks for the morning fix, Dan!

Ronnie - Posted - 12/17/2009:  14:23:07

Dan, I have lost track of Hollis Mayo. He and Randy Cooper have closed their shop here in Jackson. I think their playerguitars.com site is still active.

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/17/2009:  19:07:38

Marc,
Glad to be yer fixer! Maybe I can post another fix before I quit for the night.s

Ronnie,
I may be wrong about this but...I believe that Randy is operating the site. Hollis is semi-retired living in McKenzie, TN.

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/17/2009:  19:33:27

This post got a bit out of place... yesterdays should have been todays and... sorry about that.


Before I will begin to shape the neck backstrapping must be applied to the back of the peghead. In this case two 1/16" thick pieces of veneer are prepared. One is maple the other is ebony.



The peghead by first cutting with a band saw. I also clean up and get the heel ready for its cap. Then it is thicknessed using a Safety-plainer, a round cutting tool driven with a drill press.



Finely the peghead and neck up to about the third fret are trued up on the belt sander and then by hand. The veneer is bent to shape using water and a hot pipe and are then glued in place.

SPLogDog - Posted - 12/18/2009:  00:53:00

Hey Dan, how long do you usually wait after bending to glue the backstrap overlay? Have you had any problems with wood shrinkage or cracking?

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/18/2009:  05:17:54

Will
I don't usually wait much time at all. There is very little moisture used and the bend is really quite small. I have never had cracking to be an issue with backstrapping. I use backstrapping quite a bit, both in building and in my repair buisness.

trapdoor2 - Posted - 12/18/2009:  08:54:07

Gee Dan, don't you think you need another 2.6 clamps on that backstrap?

If it is one thing I've learned in 50-odd years of scr*wing messing around in a woodshop...you can never own enough clamps!!

One of the things I love about Orpheum (and I suppose, other makes as well) is the interesting layering of veneers to build up a peghead. The Orpheum "Brass Band" tenor I have has a mere whisp of a peghead in the center and 5 or 6 layers of veneers on both sides (backstrap and headplates). On the headplate side, the joint between the "underfretboard" layers and the headplate veneers are staggered (scarfed alternately)...which creates an interesting 'zipper' on the side under the nut.

I'm with 'Gomer', I really enjoy seeing what's happening in Greater downtown Paris when I log on in the morning.

===Marc

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/18/2009:  10:37:52

Marc,
I was just thinking about you this morning as I played the Sunflower Dance (polka, twist, boogie or whatever). Thanks for introducing that stuff to me.

I love all that layering too. Visually it can be stunning but increases the strength of the peghead (I've never seen a broken peghead on one) and because of the added stiffness it increases the sustain. Thanks for looking in and commenting. I really appreciate everyone's input.

Dan

rottenwood - Posted - 12/18/2009:  11:23:15

hey Dan, is that an ebony cowl you are using to glue the heel cap? That's deluxe!

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/18/2009:  16:51:16

Rob,
that piece of ebony does look like a cowl doesn't it? Actually it is the heel cap!

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/18/2009:  17:22:11

I told David Emery earlier today that I might start cutting the pearl for this New Ebony banjo today. Well I did so here are some photos of that beginning. I decided to start with the image of the lady on the peghead.



Here I'm getting ready to start the first cut. It is her dress. I'm cutting it from a Tennessee River shell called a washboard.



Here I'm making the first cut.



After a good while of cutting, I've nearly done with this piece.



If you look real close you'll notice her face, hair and dress are cut out. The face is gold lip pearl and Ivory (from a piano key) and the hair is brass and red coral.

DEmery - Posted - 12/18/2009:  18:30:39

Dan you did indeed get started. Your choice of materials to texture the image is as interesting as the image. You estimated up to 90 hours of cut work. Glad I went with simple wood inlay from the Cubbly era. My bank would still be drawing interest on yhe finance agreement on this level of art. Like most of your work - I've seen nothing like it. David

Edited by - DEmery on 12/18/2009 18:35:37

Dowel Stick Carving

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/18/2009:  21:55:49

David,
Thanks you for the pat on the back. My back needed it after sawing away at the pearl for several hours today. It's funny how the time flies by when you are into something like this.

SPLogDog - Posted - 12/19/2009:  01:26:12

Thats a pretty cool piece of marquetry on the scoop. I like how it looks like the fingerboard is partially obscuring it.

DEmery - Posted - 12/19/2009:  06:25:19

Funny you notice that about the scoop. When Dan and I discussed the scoop and lines - it was his idea to inlay the wood pinwheel in a way that makes it appear as if part slides under the scoop cut line. I am not sure it would be as obvious but when Dan said this banjo "calls" for a carved heal...we wanted a style that had some design connection to the pinwheel. The design is original and conceptually flows as if it protrudes from the rim as if the rest is hidden. The idea was a good one - but you win the prize on describing the scoop effect. David

Edited by - DEmery on 12/19/2009 06:32:49

Pot of Ebony Banjo

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/19/2009:  06:36:40

Will,
Thanks for noticing that detail, it's one I'm very proud of on Sherry Lynn.

David,
I guess I head to the shop and keep chawing away at that 90 hours.

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/19/2009:  06:54:25

Our neck is now ready for profiling the fingerboard and the peghead. After marking out the various shapes of the peghead and fingerboard (using a white marking pencil).



The neck is placed in a fixture which now holds the fingerboard parallel to the bandsaw table. The neck and peghead are then cut to shape.



(Does anyone notice I slipped one in of Sherry Lynn???)

The edges of the neck are trued on the large belt sander and by hand and the peghead is sanded both by hand, with the orbital disk sander and small smooth files.
The neck is brought to a true basic thickness using the safty planer and drillpress.



After I radious the fingerboard and finish the inlay cutting, the neck will be ready to inlay.

Gomer - Posted - 12/19/2009:  08:21:24

Dan, Could you hold a sec' while I get a cup of coffee? . . . . . . . . . . . Okay, I'm back! Go ahead on!
Stunning work! Again!

Ol Lefty - Posted - 12/19/2009:  15:39:54

DAN-please see my last post in Richard's "Texas Ebony" thread. Early this week, I'll be taking you up on the phone call offer. Highest regards, Mike T.

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/19/2009:  16:34:22

Tom
I'll try to hold while you get a cup of coffee. But what kind of coffee is it?

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/19/2009:  16:35:35

Mike,
What a nice thing to say... I look forward to your call.

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/19/2009:  17:56:40

Cutting is fun, but filing is the real work. The difference in inlay work often comes down to the filing of the pieces. On this one, the face pieces are the most difficult and time consuming to file.

















The pieces are placed face down and tack glued with cyno. After they are tacked, ground ebony dust is rubbed down into the voids and glued with cyno. Here you see the first two figures flipped over and placed on the patteren.

DanKnowles - Posted - 12/19/2009:  18:45:57

I had to post this one, this is what a jewelers saw blade will do!

Bob Robert - Posted - 12/20/2009:  00:02:37

I like making things, but you must have an infinite amount of patience!