pete hobbie - Posted - 09/01/2008:  08:33:45

So last night I installed my first attempt yellowstone head on a banjo uke for someone and am very pleased with it. What a job tho, I'm curious if any of you other repair guys out there have come up with a price for these monsters....at one point in the process I was thinking maybe 20,000$ but that may be a bit high.....Well once again I'm really pleased with the potential for a skin head replacement that is a bit more humidity friendly,thanx to all for the r&d.
pete

mralston - Posted - 09/01/2008:  10:46:27

Hey Pete - I think I recognize your picture from seeing you at Clifftop...... so it took you about four weeks to get a head on a banjo uke ? Just kidding.... the first one's always toughest. Bet you lower your price to under $10k after the next one.

Mark Ralston

A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon

www.yellowstone-jewelry.com

dhergert - Posted - 09/01/2008:  11:04:57

Hey Mark, how is that banjo that got caught in the rain sounding? My two that suffered from high humidity (and that I tightened up afterward) are sounding better than ever. And I've had them in more very humid climates this weekend with no further stretching... Any thoughts?

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

mralston - Posted - 09/01/2008:  11:28:25

Hey Don -

A few of my banjos got rained on @ Clifftop..... I bet that the loosening of the heads was due to the water lubricating where the heads wrap around the flesh & tension hoops. Most noticeable effect was on a couple of steel-strung banjo-mando's where there's more down-pressure on the bridge than on a nylgut-strung 5-string.

No lasting adverse effects, heads stayed stable after they dried, sold all three of the banjo-mandos that I took to Clifftop. I didn't check systematically, but I think that the banjos with square cross-section flesh hoops suffered less from being rained on.

Mark Ralston

A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon

www.yellowstone-jewelry.com

pete hobbie - Posted - 09/01/2008:  17:02:24

Yeah Mark ; We did meet at clifftop and it did take me four weeks to put a head on a banjo uke(the last hour was pretty rough).I just strung up the critter and it seems really nice. Once again ,thanx for the R&D.
Pete

Shamrock - Posted - 09/10/2008:  15:31:43

Hello to you all

I've been using my first installed head since februari without any problems. Busted one head but reused it on a smaller sized five string.
Up till now I'm one happy customer....

Mark, do you know how many heads are being used?
Is it too soon to get some feedback from everyone?
Maybe we can put up a list of evry head, what banjo it's on and what style its used for.

I think we can get another 13 pages going.

gr. Juup


Excuse my English, I think in Dutch

dhergert - Posted - 09/10/2008:  15:58:36

Hi Juup,

Just curious, under what circumstances did the one head break?

Yup, we should be able to go another 13 pages .

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

Shamrock - Posted - 09/10/2008:  16:16:40

Don
I was cutting some corners and used pliers to work the head under the fleshhoop. Shame on me.
You learn from your mistakes.
The edge of the head split along the grain.


Luckely I could reuse it. The head was never under full tension but the form remaind. It went on the smaller pot without any problems.
I play my heads under full tension. I don't tune the heads. Just keep on tightening till Ilike the sound.

gr. Juup

Excuse my English, I think in Dutch

jims38134 - Posted - 09/10/2008:  18:06:00

re: dhergert's second to last post. I thought the advantage to this over natural skin was its resistance to humidity?

dhergert - Posted - 09/10/2008:  19:06:44

Hi Jim,

We're still learning about rain and humidity with these...

Mark and I both suspect this is re-seating happening around the flesh hoop, aided by moisture as a lubricant. I tightened my two banjo heads and they haven't budged again, even again in high humidity. As Mark observed with his banjos that did this, these banjos of mine were both steel string banjos.

With the last Yellowstone I mounted, on a 14" cello banjo rim, I added moisture sponged in around the flesh hoop as lubricant to try to get this adjustment done early, and it seems to have done the trick as this particular rim is now in central east Florida, right on the coast near Cape Canaveral, and from what I hear it hasn't budged.

Also as mentioned here, DuPont had this material being used in Europe in a marching band drum set, where the band got caught in a downpour and the heads went slack as the band continued to try to play in the rain. I don't know how these heads were mounted, and we haven't gotten any further details on that, but my observation is that most of us would run for cover with our banjos when the rain starts coming down, so I don't expect we'll have that extreme of a circumstance happening.

What we can say for sure is when they dry again, these heads can be tightened up again for full functionality. In my observations so far they are more stable afterward. And pleasantly, they don't need to be loosened as the humidity drops to avoid tearing.

Anyway, we'll probably learn more about Yellowstone heads through the years. In the mean time we can enjoy them... There are other advantages to Yellowstone heads over other synthetic materials, to me foremost among them being their tone, note separation and volume.

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

jims38134 - Posted - 09/12/2008:  16:25:02

Don,
Oh, I see, thanks. I love and use calf skin heads on most of my banjos and haven't really had a problem with weather changes. But, mine stay in the confines of my house and I don't play them in varying weather conditions as a pro would. I've been watching this thread with interest off and on. Would a square flesh hoop give more bite and keep it from slipping?
Thanks again,
Jim

dhergert - Posted - 09/12/2008:  18:03:53

Hi Jim,

Very possibly, yes...

Mark (and a number of testers here) do use square flesh hoops at least some of the time, and Mark did suspect that most of his Yellowstones that slipped with the rain were using round flesh hoops. I always use round ones myself, mostly because it's the material I have at hand most easily (accoustic ceiling hanger wire), so I can definately say the two banjos I had slip in very high humidity (dewing) were on round flesh hoops.

Yours are good and appropriate questions though, and this definately has us watching...

For me, even if Yellowstone heads were as sensitive to weather as real skin, I'd use them for the volume, note separation and dry skin-like tone they provide. Happlily, Yellowstones also seem to be for the most part at least extremely stable, perhaps even as stable as plastic heads once they have truely settled in. We'll see.

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

jims38134 - Posted - 09/12/2008:  18:23:12

Don,
I wonder if the slipping would be prevented if you took a square flesh hoop and "knurled" it, like embosseing a heavy cross-hatch diamond pattern into the outside circumference and top of a square brass flesh hoop, to give it some bite. Kind of like the diamond crosshatch pattern on some thumbscrews. (If I knew how to add pics I would show an example of what I mean.)
Jim

pete hobbie - Posted - 10/06/2008:  16:22:42

Well Mark I'm not ready to come in under 10k yet but I think I'm beginning to understand these beasties...I broke my second one out of stupidity but the third one seems to be doing well. For some dumb reason I keep putting them on small pots so I imagine that when I get around to doing a full size pot it will be a walk in the park.
Thanks again for the r&d.

Pete

Things are more the way they are now than they''ve ever been.

spiritwolf7 - Posted - 10/07/2008:  05:30:49

Is there still a way to get in on this evaluation?

SpiritWolf

++++++++++++++++

dhergert - Posted - 10/07/2008:  08:53:24

Hi Harold,

Yes, there certainly is. Mark Ralston (who is the concept and project originator of Yellowstone heads) and I (your basic enthusiastic user) distribute the Yellowstone material. Mark distributes to the USA east of the Mississippi and to Canada, and I try to pickup the rest.

Send us an email including your location and we'll work on getting some Yellowstone head material to you. I'm guessing Anderson is east of the Mississippi, but I'm a city feller from the west and might have the Mississippi, Wabash and Ohio rivers all mixed up in your area.

quote:

---

Originally posted by spiritwolf7

Is there still a way to get in on this evaluation?

SpiritWolf

++++++++++++++++

---

pete hobbie - Posted - 10/08/2008:  09:50:31

Mark and or Don;
You guys should consider doing a yellowskin head workshop at clifftop next year... I know I'd be there.

Pete

Things are more the way they are now than they''ve ever been.

dhergert - Posted - 10/08/2008:  09:59:32

Hey Pete,

I think Mark was there this year. Mark?

I've been showing them off at the festivals I've been going to. No formal workshops yet, but I've made a lot of contacts. Yellowstone heads do tend to attract attention at festivals, both by the looks and the sound.

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

mralston - Posted - 10/08/2008:  10:01:07

Hey Pete -

You know, by next year EVERYONE may be charging $10K for a re-head job with the economy the way it is .... maybe you'll be in line with the market by then ;). Glad you finally got the bugs worked out.

I'm going to have a booth again next year @ Clifftop for jewelry & banjos (and fiddles, if I get my act together to fix up some old fiddles that I just bought a couple of weeks ago). This year @ Clifftop I did a couple of head installations to show some folks who asked....... there actually was a lot of interest from builders & tinkerers (like me).

SpiritWolf .... if you're still interested in trying the material, send me an e-mail.

Mark Ralston

A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon

www.yellowstone-jewelry.com

roger martin - Posted - 10/08/2008:  19:48:50

Mark, is the price still the same as it was when I last ordered? I've run out ,(AGAIN) and need to order some more once I find out the current price. If you've had to raise it thats cool, with shipping costs going thru the roof and all. Everybody here knows it costs more to do just about anything these days.

Roger MArtin

mralston - Posted - 10/09/2008:  04:50:39

Roger.......... price still the same, even though Yellowstone Jewelry didn't qualify for a bailout. Let me know what you need.

Mark Ralston

A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon

www.yellowstone-jewelry.com

dhergert - Posted - 10/11/2008:  15:05:43

I had a relatively disheartening talk this morning with a friend of mine on whose modern Deering/Vega Tube-A-Phone banjo I had installed a Yellowstone head about 4 months ago. This person is a regular weekend for-pay banjo perfromer at an outside venue in our local foothills and had encountered some serious head loosening of his Yellowstone head in rain and high humidity over the last few weeks. He has just about decided to move to a Renaissance head on this banjo instead of the Yellowstone due to the instability with the humidity.

I explained to him what we had seen and discussed here, and in fact had talked to him about humidity with Yellowstone heads before so this wasn't a total shock. His experiences were like those we've documented here, where he first noticed issues with the action being too low. He has tightened his head a few times satisfactorily, but is concerned that soon there will be very limited adjustment space left, and is also concerned about the inconvenience of having to adjust things at the last minute before performing. Like us, he's not sure whether it is true stretching or if it is adjustment around the flesh hoop...

Has anyone else here had further experiences with rain/humidity based issues? I had my two banjos that needed adjusting due to humidity a few months ago, made the adjustments and haven't need to do more, but that could be due to being in a drier climate now.

There are two questions that I've not been able to answer yet:

1) Is there a theoretical tension limit to how much we can tighten these heads after they've been moist and needed adjusting?

2) If there is such a limit, what will these heads do when we reach that limit?

If this is true stretching, I'm wondering if there is a point after which the Yellowstone heads will stop stretching, despite new rain or humidity encounters. If that is the case, we might find soaking the heads, or soaking the the perimiter of the heads, in advance of mounting them to be helpful. I did this on my last 14" head and then sent it to the owners in Florida during the peak of the hurricane season, and I've not heard of any stretching issues from them yet. So it may help. I need to check with them about how their head tension is working out.

If this is slippage and not true stretching, I would guess eventually the head will slip off the flesh hoop. I've not experienced or heard of this happening yet, so I'm starting to think this more likely is true stretching that is occurring. Supporting that is that my friend reports that when his head dried out, it partially tightened back up again -- has anyone else experienced that to a measurable amount?

I'm unfortunately not in a position with any of my regular playing banjos to intentionally emerse them or spray them with water to simulate this in a controlled environment. I do have a junker -- an old import aluminum parts-banjo in the garage that I'm considering putting a Yellowstone head on just for this kind of testing. Has anyone else here done any controlled Yellowstone humidity testing like this?

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

Edited by - dhergert on 10/11/2008 15:23:17

dhergert - Posted - 10/11/2008:  15:27:51

Here's an added thought...

I have frequently cleaned a number of my Yellowstone banjo heads with water and a rag, scrubbing dirt away. It raises some of the "hair" fibers like we've described here, but I've never noticed that it caused any issues with head tension, or the most obvious result of loosening heads, lower action.

Do others here wash their Yellowstone heads every once in a while? If so, have you seen any tension issues afterward?

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

mralston - Posted - 10/11/2008:  16:34:55

Hey Don -

Not good news ! ! ! Hope that physical stretching isn't the culprit, because that would certainly be a problem.

Going back to my experience with banjos that got rained on at Clifftop this year, only two out of about 2 dozen showed slackening of the heads. Not all of them got wet, but the humidity was 100%+, and I think about 7 or 8 banjos actually got rained on for a few minutes on a couple of days. Most of the banjos got played pretty often during the week. The heads had been on all of the banjos for at least a couple of months.

The Clifftop banjos that slackened in response to rain were both banjo-mandolins strung w/ steel strings. Seems logical that the amount of down-pressure on the bridge could make a difference in the potential to loosen.

I suspect that what can happen is the water can lubricate the head and sometimes (depending on the installation), the head can loosen. I've only seem loosening on a couple of banjos, and I've probably done 3 or 4 dozen heads where I've kept track of the tension. I'm probably biased, though......I like slack heads due to the sound, and I probably wouldn't notice excessive slackening until it became fairly significant (i.e., impaired the action).

I've noticed that a few (not all) head installations have slackened slightly during the first week or so after installation. Combined with the fact that few, not all, head installations tend to slacken, these observations support the interpretation that the installation may make a difference in how prone a particular head is to slackening. Don - if you're able to wipe down a head with soapy water without noticing loosening, this also seems to support the interpretation that installation (e.g., quality of the job wrapping the head around the flesh hoop, uniformity of tightness around the flesh hoop, etc.) can make a difference. Probably something to consider when we're installing the heads.

Don - is there anything about that particular Deering banjo & the installation that might make it susceptible to loosening. You've used glue before to secure the area where the head laps over itself coming across the pot & up from the flesh hoop. Might be interesting to see if judiciously-applied glue would stop your friend's loosening problem..... might also help to pinpoint whether he's getting stretching versus slipping.

Anyone else noticed issues with loosening or slipping ??

Probably a good reason to consider using square cross-section flesh hoops, since they grip better.

Don - keep us posted ! ! !



Mark Ralston

A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon

www.yellowstone-jewelry.com

dhergert - Posted - 10/11/2008:  20:42:12

Hi Mark,

Thanks, I had forgotten about gluing. I'll offer that to my friend to see if it holds better...

Because I've rather generously washed my heads before with no apparent stretching, I really think this is a settling issue...

But if it is stretching, I also suspect that there is a limit to how much Yellowstone heads will stretch, then, like most materials, they will either reach either their point of stability, or reach their point of failure.

It's amazing how much we still don't know about this material, isn't it?

What I do know is that for me, the tone is so good that some instability is worth learning to live with, if necessary. But I also think that over time we'll find what this is and correct or control it.

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

Hobbyhorse - Posted - 10/12/2008:  09:27:14

Hi guys...

I'd like to mention that I've been playing in quite a few different conditions with my Buckbee and haven't had any slackening in the past few months. I previously had a little trouble, with as you'd guess, steel-string banjos, but have since solved it (I think) by doing this:

Upon first install, tighten the head up as tight as you feel comfortable (so long as it's not warping a thin rim, etc.) and let it sit for the night. I think this helps crimp the edges down around the flesh hoop so they don't want to move too much. Then I simply slacken the head to the note I want it to sympathize with.

I've done this on my Buck, which I've been playing daily in varying tunings high tension and low tension and in various heat, cold, and humidity conditions... no problem.

I really do think that it's an install issue. I feel like the thicker the flesh hoop (as long as it's round) the more prone it is to slipping, too. Luckily, most banjos I work on have really thin round 20s-style hoops, or square ones that negate the problem.

Jake in Vermont
http://jakewildwood.com - my music and also my business
http://youtube.com/jakewildwood - my videos on YouTube
http://thewildwoodflower.com - our country store

dhergert - Posted - 10/12/2008:  10:17:28

Interesting...

The round hoops I've been using are thin, but often the banjo I mount them on are old, with tension hoops that are loose and require thicker flesh hoops to prevent slipping up under the tension hoop. So, with my most recent heads, I've been wrapping the hoop with duct tape to make it thicker.

The flesh hoops on the banjos that have slipped the most are not wrapped in duct tape.

Hmmm...


Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

dhergert - Posted - 10/12/2008:  21:43:46

After hearing from my one friend about his loose banjo head experience, I sort of felt obligated to share this information with my other friends that I've done Yellowstone heads with...

I'm extremely happy with their responses... All of them felt, as I do, that the tone of Yellowstone heads are well worth having to tighten them up every once in a while if that is necessary. And further, all of them also felt that it was very worth being on the "beta" team with Yellowstone heads, also because of the tone. So I'm greatly encouraged.

I played both of my banjos that had gone loose-heads today in a jam. Neither has loosened any more since I tightened them last, and both are cannons.

My friend who reported the loose head does use his banjo in high humidity and rain pretty often, and really needed a very stable solution, so I've recommend he try a Renaissance head. They come closer than anything I've heard to the tone of a Yellowstone, although it's not as loud and not as dry. But it should be a good solution for him, and I don't want to prolong his difficulties with further testing.

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

roger martin - Posted - 10/12/2008:  22:37:04

I've noticed no stretching on any of the heads I've installed ( Yellowstone).
I HAVE noticed some slippage around the flesh hoop. I tend to think its an installation issue.I too have had a couple of heads slip even as I tightened them up, BUT it was MY fault for not doing the install properly.The only heads I've lost were due to mistakes I made while putting them on.
It gets pretty humid here in the summer and I havent had any problems.None of my banjos have been in direct rain or water ,so I cant comment on that
I cant find a reason to not like Yellowstone,
I do enjoy explaining what Yellowstone is and how it works.People that are musicians are always curious about it.

Roger MArtin

dhergert - Posted - 10/13/2008:  03:45:41

Hi Roger,

I agree, I think there are still some things that we can do to make things stay better... And despite my one friend's experiences and need to move to a different head technology because of the tough venue he works, I'm not discouraged. As I mentioned, all of my other friends are so convinced of the tone and volume improvement, as I am, that even if they have a total head failure, they want to stay with Yellowstone in the future.

I think one thing I'll be doing is looking for a square or rectangular material I can get in bulk locally for flesh hoops. I suspect there is something that Lowes or Home Depot has that will work ideally for flesh hoops. It might even be round-ribbed or hexagonal -- like round-ribbed or hexagonal, thick weed-eater material. Hmmm. (If I do go this direction, I may decide to stop using a duct tape wrap.)

Another thing I'll be doing all the time now is wetting the mount area of the head during installation. I'm fairly convinced it helped with my Florida 14" head install to prevent moisture related slippage -- and in fact I believe it helped get rid of some dimples for me too.

And, I may start gluing more, maybe all the time, after the head has taken it's initial set. We'll see.

I do think eventually a technique, or a combination of techniques, will result in Yellowstone heads that don't slip around the flesh hoop under any circumstances, even under the tension of steel strings. Once that is completely, safely ruled out, we'll be able to judge whether Yellowstones experience true stretching or not. At that point, if stretching does occur, I'll try to push the edge a bit and find out what it does after it's stretched as much as it will stretch. It may then become extremely stable like many synthetics do, or it may then become really fragile, but either way it is test data that we would benifit from knowing about.

Happly, most of us are convinced enough of the tonal and volume benefits of Yellowstone heads to stay with them. Many of my banjos have been wearling them for 10 months now, and they are extremely stable.

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

timmo_1949 - Posted - 10/13/2008:  08:17:51

I have used 1/8" square stock to make a flash hoop for pots with loose tension hoops. The sharp edges make installing Yellowstone material even harder BUT once you get it set, it is stable as a store-bought head.


Timmo
"Bother Yum-Yum!"
http://savethebanjos.com

roger martin - Posted - 10/13/2008:  08:34:14

At this point I am convinced that Yellowstone is a viable alternative to the standard head materials.
Even if it turns out that there is an issue or 2 involved, it STILL seems to me to be cost effective and good sounding head.
Another plus is the fact that Yellowstone fits the look of old time banjos so you get a close "skinhead" look but at a GREATLY reduced price.The tradeoff of having to spend a bit more time on the install is well worth it ,at this point.

Roger MArtin

Shamrock - Posted - 12/15/2008:  16:06:14

It's time to get this thread out of the depth of the Forum.
Time to share some experiences. I've used the Yellowstone in last few month, since last may, on tenors and five strings. IMO they sound as good as any plastic head and can compeed with any real skin.

What are your thoughts on this, fellow Yellowstone users?

Lets step out of the dark and be proud of our Yellowstones

gr. Juup

Excuse my English, I think in Dutch

dhergert - Posted - 12/15/2008:  17:57:12

Hi Juup,

No question about it, the banjos of mine that I've installed Yellowstone heads on still are playing and sound great. Many of the Yellowstone heads are nearly a year old now and have been played on heavily.

There are still some areas that have not really been worked out about Yellowstone heads though... Has anyone had more experiences with humidity and rain and their Yellowstone banjo heads? Also, has anyone had any further experiences with trying to mount Yellowstone heads on tackhead or zither banjos?

I'll probably never go back to standard Remo Weatherking heads again. That dry, skin like tone of the Yellowstone heads, and the added volume and note separation are just tremendous.

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

Edited by - dhergert on 12/15/2008 18:44:17

lestermatt - Posted - 12/30/2008:  18:15:48

has anyone tried this stuff on a regular banjo that is to say with a heavy bronze tone ring for Bluegrass.? I ask this cuz there seems to be alot of old time feedback and not so specificly BG,just wondering.(and no I didnt read all 14 pgs )

dhergert - Posted - 01/16/2009:  08:45:55

You didn't?

Yes, in fact I use it on and have installed it on a number of heavy tone ring Gibson and Gibson-style banjos.

My main player for bluegrass is a late '25 Style 3 Ballbearing Mastertone, I've also got a NHAT OPF '34 Style 3 COPY and a '64 RB180. I've also installed Yellowstones for friends on an early '25 Style 5 Ballbearing and a '34 Syle 3 flathead (WOW) and on a '70s Stelling Golden Cross, in addition to my own Vega Style M Tubaphone and a friends modern Deering/Vega.

On heavy tone ring banjos, Yellowstone heads produce a remarkable dry, skin like tone and extremly high volume. On light or no-tone-ring banjos they are still noticably louder and drier, but they also produce a bassier tone too. On either technology, Yellowstone heads don't need to be extremely tight to sound excellent.

I was a Remo Weatherking guy until Mark presented Yellowstone heads here. After hearing them on a few of my banjos, I knew I had to have them on all of them. They make a huge difference. In particular for your questions, my heavy tone ring Gibson style banjos are all world-class cannons now.

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

farkle_30 - Posted - 02/05/2009:  09:54:00

I have contacted yellowstone jewerly a few times and have not heard back from them. I am currently restoring a mando banjo and I am in need of a head. Is there any other way to contact him and place an order?

dhergert - Posted - 02/05/2009:  11:42:19

Yes, and you just did.

I'm sorry for the delay, with the holidays and being out of town last month, I'm behind in email and am in process of preparing a large, multiple request shipment now.

If you haven't already emailed me with your shipping address, please go ahead and do so now; I'll cut, package and get your Yellowstone head material on its way to you within the next few days.

Again, my apologies for the delay.

quote:

---

Originally posted by farkle_30

I have contacted yellowstone jewerly a few times and have not heard back from them. I am currently restoring a mando banjo and I am in need of a head. Is there any other way to contact him and place an order?

---

farkle_30 - Posted - 02/05/2009:  12:21:34

Don,
Just sent you my address
Thanks
Mark

mralston - Posted - 03/14/2009:  06:47:39

Update ...... thanks to Pete Hobbie for an excellent suggestion for heartburn reduction for Yellowstone head installation. If you use a little bit of water when you're seating the tension hoop & pulling up on the ends of the head to seat it, the water will lubricate the head a little bit and will let you slip the head down a little more, also work out wrinkles before the head becomes tight. This helps if the head gets tight sooner than you're ready for it (i.e., tension hoop is still too high). If you use the water sparingly, you don't really have to get the pot wet at all.

I just finished putting a head on a tiny 8" banjo pot. 1st time through, I left some tiny wrinkles that I wasn't satisfied with (the banjo is for someone else). I took off the head, installed a new one....using a little water (maybe 2 tablespoons around the entire pot, dripped down into the crease in the head for the flesh hoop), I was able to do CPR, work out the wrinkles, and got a much better finished job. I think I'll use a little bit of water in the future. Thanks, Pete.



My computer crashed 2 weeks ago and I'm still restoring my backed-up stuff, including some e-mail. I think I'm caught up on all head requests (except one for Gulfport, MS).... if anyone is waiting for heads, please e-mail me ! !



Mark Ralston

"Now, people…. when it comes to the scientifical parts of music I know nothing about it, but I can play. Listen…. A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here" ......... Uncle Dave Macon

www.yellowstone-jewelry.com

Edited by - mralston on 03/15/2009 07:59:32

dhergert - Posted - 03/14/2009:  11:09:43

Hi Mark,

Yes, I've also experimented with a bit of water, as you say, just inside the fold where the tension hoop falls into place. Aside from making Yellowstone heads easier to seat in the first place, I think it also does one other thing -- I think it discourages slippage later on under conditions of high humidity. The two or three heads I've done this way have been in wet conditions, yet have not had any slippage that we experienced before.

It's easy enough to do too, so I think I'll be doing it as a regular part of installing Yellowstone heads from now on.

Btw, just got done with a gig with my Yellowstone-clad Ballbearing Mastertone. This banjo is sounding better than ever, I think that these heads actually sound better after a year or so. I also have another studio appointment this coming week, should be fun. The tone of Yellowstone heads really records nicely.

Best,

-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

Paul Gorman - Posted - 03/14/2009:  20:40:23

Came across your article by reference from Bruce's ad for his Whyte Laydie with 'Yellowstone" head. I am about to put a new head on my Silver Bell. It has a 70s plastic on it now. Pease send me a piece and I promise to tell you how it works. I have installed about a half dozen heads including three calfskins. paul.gorman@sbcglobal.net.

Paul

philly - Posted - 03/15/2009:  05:15:29

Hi Mark,

That head looks very good on the pot! Great work!

Phil in Chambersburg, PA

guitardunord - Posted - 03/15/2009:  07:39:39

Hello Mark and Phil,
The head looks great! Mark, we haven't met, but I greatly appreciate your help. I am really looking forward to receiving "Pearl"!

I am new to BHO and have discovered the greatest resource in the banjo world, (and a lot of wonderful people, starting with Phil). Thank you both very much!

Randy Ferguson
(Guitardunord)
Northfield, Minnesota

dhergert - Posted - 03/15/2009:  18:28:31

Paul, email sent...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul Gorman

Came across your article by reference from Bruce's ad for his Whyte Laydie with 'Yellowstone" head. I am about to put a new head on my Silver Bell. It has a 70s plastic on it now. Pease send me a piece and I promise to tell you how it works. I have installed about a half dozen heads including three calfskins. paul.gorman@sbcglobal.net.

Paul

---

dhergert - Posted - 05/29/2009:  02:12:09

Getting close to a year and a half on most of my banjos... All is going fine!

Best,

-- Don
http://www.youtube.com/user/dh5string
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

tanglefingers - Posted - 05/29/2009:  04:35:14

this is arguably one of the most interesting threads on HO. i have been folowing for about 6 months now, and i suddenly come into ownership of a particularly good candidate for a yellowstone test. this will be my beater, a fair chance it will get wet or at least dewy at 4 am (if i dont spill beer on it first..) and posibly sat too close too the fire with. Have PMed you Don, i beleive you are doin the distro?

Im also curious.. how many are on archtops? i know you have one or 2 don. does the more gradual breakover from 2 angles make it easier to fit than a 90 degree bend on a flat top?

edit,>> emailed you @verizon.net my PM button isnt working tonite..??



We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can''t bomb it onto PEACE.
Micheal Franti.

Edited by - tanglefingers on 05/29/2009 05:10:36

mike gregory - Posted - 05/29/2009:  07:05:32

Just a thought which was thinked while reading the 10-13-08 post from Dhergert:

".........I think one thing I'll be doing is looking for a square or rectangular material I can get in bulk locally for flesh hoops. I suspect there is something that Lowes or Home Depot has that will work ideally for flesh hoops. It might even be round-ribbed or hexagonal -- like round-ribbed or hexagonal, thick weed-eater material..............."

How about squeezing the existing flesh hoop in a set of ViseGrip pliers, and slide-forcing the pliers all the way around, so that the teeth on the jaws make a set of long striations?
That would make the hoop lose its smoothness.

switzforge - Posted - 05/29/2009:  07:53:32

here is a possability. 1/4" is a bit large, but may work OK http://www.mcmaster.com/#6512k12/=232hnk

Will play Banjo for food, will stop playing banjo for money.

John Switzer
Beulah, Colorado
www.blackbearforge.com