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roger martin - Posted - 05/31/2008: 22:42:12
If anyone builds a jig and adds improvements please post a pic.You may hit on something I missed . Aint this fun? lol
Roger MArtin
mralston - Posted - 06/01/2008: 03:05:31
Hey Roger - looks like you may be onto something. I did a head on a 1922 Whyte Laydie (10 1/2" pot) yesterday and the tension hoop was a snug fit. WL uses short hooks......I used extra long pot hooks to allow me to ride the tension hoop upwards so that I was able to fish the head through & work out the puckers. I had to use guesstimation to put a little extra slack in the head (using the CPR method) before I started to draw down the tension hoop - otherwise, the head would have gotten tight while the tension hoop was too high. Does your installer-fixture-thingy help with the issue of head tightness and tension hoop height ??? If the "Martin Jig" lets you fish the head material with the tension hoop high, then how do you keep the head from getting tight too soon ? CPR method works, but has potential to pull the head past the flesh hoop unevenly.
Mark Ralston
A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon
www.yellowstone-jewelry.com
granderman - Posted - 06/01/2008: 04:41:36
is it possible to buy a yellowtone head in amed crown to fit a Stelling ?
aloha Bradah T
mralston - Posted - 06/01/2008: 04:59:07
Granderman - the Yellowstone head is an experimental head material that comes in a large, industrial-size roll which is cut into square sheets for installation. There has been discussion about pre-mounting the heads on calibrated hoops, but I don't think that anyone has done this yet. Pre-mounted heads would certainly do away with some of the heartburn associated with mounting the material, per the past few comments. Right now the material is only available in sheets.
Don H. - have you tried to make up any calibrated pre-mounts yet ????
Mark Ralston
A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon
www.yellowstone-jewelry.com
roger martin - Posted - 06/01/2008: 06:05:44
Hey Mark,
I'm not sure this fixture will help with dealing with the head height issue,I too guestamated the height as I worked the 1st head using the jig the other nite.The only thing I can suggest is to put one together and see if it helps that issue or not.I would think tho, that because it makes the OTHER problems associated with the installation so much easier that the height problem wont seem to be such bugaboo.
The fixture doesnt cost anything to make to speak of mine went together in an hour with scrap laying around the shop.
What I'd like is for several people to try one and see what improvements they can make to the jig.I dont see a solution to the tightness problem except to ride the band high for access,but the jig keeps the bands in place while you work so your not worrying about the balancing act of dealing with so many problems at the same time during an installation.
Roger MArtin
DrMont - Posted - 06/01/2008: 07:45:47
Did I miss something? What is the CPR method? Curse, pull and rant?
Tyri - Posted - 06/01/2008: 08:10:06
Good morning, Monty. Welcome!
It has become a rather long thread, but the journey is truly amazing. Mark's instructions/video guide takes you through the actual installation process, but I definitely recommend going back and giving it a read.
Have fun!
-Brywn
Gran Tyhri''s favorite Scot
mralston - Posted - 06/01/2008: 08:29:47
Hi Monty - Curse, Pull & Rant might be appropriate for a first installation, esp. if you're dealing with a tight tension hoop. CPR is also cardio-pulmonary resuscitation........ put one hand behind the other, and press downwards on the head with the heel of your palm (like CPR). This helps slip the head past the flesh hoop (assuming you only have 4 hooks in place), which is probably needed if you started with a tight tension hoop at a high position, then you need to draw the tension hoop down, don't want to get the head too tight too soon, hence use CPR to loosen the head (put back a little slack) a little bit on the way down.
Sorry you're struggling.... . most people say that it gets easier w/ time, which is absolutely no consolation with your first install.
Mark Ralston
A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon
www.yellowstone-jewelry.com
dhergert - Posted - 06/01/2008: 09:30:39
Hi Mark,
Actually yes, and by coincident, it was for an early (1976) Stelling.
This particular Stelling had a non-original tension hoop that was loose, in fact sloppy, enough so that the flesh hoop on my Yellowstone mount for this banjo slipped up under the tension hoop. So, I dismounted the head and glued it to the tension hoop using the 3M Gorilla Snot glue, thinking I would re-use this Yellowstone for another banjo someday...
On a fluke, after the head was dry, I tried it on the Stelling again. The thickness of the glue above and around the flesh hoop added enough bulk to the head mounting area that the flesh hoop no longer pulled up under the tension hoop. I've rechecked this banjo a few times over the last couple of weeks and it remains very stable.
So, the short answer is yes, I did create a pre-mounted Yellowstone head for a Stelling, however it is on that Stelling now.
quote:
Originally posted by mralston
...Don H. - have you tried to make up any calibrated pre-mounts yet ????
Mark Ralston
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergerthttp://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
dhergert - Posted - 06/07/2008: 20:08:19
Granderman and others, I may as well make this offer here...
If anyone is willing to disassemble their conventional tension-hoop banjo and send me their pot assembly (the round complete part of the banjo without the neck, tailpiece and any possible resonator), I'd be glad to mount a Yellowstone head on it and send it back. Since we're still considering the Yellowstone head experience experimental, this would be at no charge except for your pre-paid, and if possible pre-arranged shipping costs (including insurance if desired)...
Having done a number of tension-hoop banjos now, I'm happy to make this offer here. Because I always endeavor to install these at relatiively low tension (for better tone and for less stress on old banjo parts), what I can't guarantee is that there will be no dimples, but I will try to get the dimples out at low tension as much as possible. Also, if you want me to do this and if you want a glued head so you can easily remove it and then put it back on again, let me know.
Additionally, if a few people similarly have a tackhead rim, a mountain banjo rim, or a zither banjo rim that they would like someone to try putting a Yellowstone head on in a *very experimental mode*, I'd be glad to try it for you. I have a couple of technologies in mind to try this with but haven't aquired such a rim yet. (Although I may pick up a cheap tamborine or drum to try this with in the near future.) If these technologies or others are successful, this offer will be open for more people; if on the other hand I cannot figure a way to make it work, I'll close this offer. Also similarly, I'd want to have access to the rim only, no necks, resonators or tailpieces, and this also would be at no charge except for your pre-paid and if possible pre-arranged shipping costs (including insurance if desired).
The reason I would want only the pot assemblies is that they ship pretty well, normally without damage. Attach a neck and/or resonator and string it up with a tailpiece and our chances for serious shipping damage have increased dramatically. And the reason for pre-arranging shipping costs from your side is that I'd like to avoid either of us having to deal with money and money transfers as much as possible. Also, at this point in my experience it only takes about an hour to put a Yellowstone head on a complete tension-hoop banjo rim. What takes real time is doing a proper re-assembly and a proper banjo setup afterward. I'll leave that work to you.
This is a limited time offer... I expect that after a while the experimental period for Yellowstone heads will close and we will move into a production period. While we're constantly coming up with subtle new methods for mounting them, it seems like the only thing seriously lacking for the experimental period to be over now is knowing how well Yellowstone heads last over a resonable period of time, like a minimum of a year or more. When the experimental period is over, I'll consider how to charge for my time, but for now, it's just for fun and learning. Also, if you are interested in this and if I'm swamped, I'll let you know so you can decide if its worth waiting for or if you'd rather do it yourself.
Sooo, if this is of interest to anyone out there, send me an email and we can work out the details.
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
roger martin - Posted - 06/09/2008: 08:20:24
OK, I'm almost ready to test fit a tackhead with Yellowstone.
I was waiting with the intention of using it on one of the 2 banjos I'm finishing up now, but after doing some eye measuring I saw that if it doesnt work I'll have scratches ( and small holes) on the pot that I cant hide.So last night I made up a quick throwaway test pot.I'm going to try fitting a tack set up on this throwaway with a Yellowstone I managed to screw up on another banjo.I let it tear on me.So hopefully by the weekend I'll be able report my success, or lack of it.
Roger MArtin
roger martin - Posted - 06/12/2008: 12:44:04
Update on tackhead attempt....
Today I tried a tackhead installation on a practice pot.It didnt work.Even with the adjustable band as a tool to help keep the skin pulled down I couldnt get it tight enough to make a usable reasonably tight head.
Another problem I ran into tho I did expect problems here was in getting the wrinkles out on the sides of the pot.The wrinkles left on a regular pot are usually hidden under the band somewhat so its not an issue.But with a tackhead those wrinkles really stand out and your eye wants to focus only on those wrinkles.
So I have to call this experiment a failure, using the way I tried it.
But because I couldnt do it doesnt mean its not "doable", its just means I couldnt get it right.If anybody does find a way to deal with the wrinkles we'd be very interested in your method.
Thinking it over I do believe i could have tried a flesh hoop to help get the tightness I wanted but even so I still couldnt get around the wrinkle problem.
Roger MArtin
anniemcu - Posted - 06/12/2008: 13:59:45
quote:
Originally posted by roger martin
Update on tackhead attempt....
Today I tried a tackhead installation on a practice pot.It didnt work.Even with the adjustable band as a tool to help keep the skin pulled down I couldnt get it tight enough to make a usable reasonably tight head.
Another problem I ran into tho I did expect problems here was in getting the wrinkles out on the sides of the pot.The wrinkles left on a regular pot are usually hidden under the band somewhat so its not an issue.But with a tackhead those wrinkles really stand out and your eye wants to focus only on those wrinkles.
So I have to call this experiment a failure, using the way I tried it.
But because I couldnt do it doesnt mean its not "doable", its just means I couldnt get it right.If anybody does find a way to deal with the wrinkles we'd be very interested in your method.
Thinking it over I do believe i could have tried a flesh hoop to help get the tightness I wanted but even so I still couldnt get around the wrinkle problem.
Roger MArtin
a
Hmmm... well... from a seamstress' standpoint, there are a couple of options that may or may not transpose to the material you are working with. With a skin, I think that wetting is involved, and therefore shrinkage, which takes care of a good deal of it, but with this material, I am assuming that won't help.
If you are fitting a band around, over the side, which can contain the wayward edge with the wrinkles, then you need to even the distribution of the wrinkles out, to keep the even pressure as the 'skin' goes over the pot edge. This makes it so that there are little wrinkles, all around, rather than big wrinkles in a few spots. This would allow the band to cover them better, and even out the pressure. More tacks may help.
Another choice might be to regularly space a few larger wrinkles and make folds that are then secured with the tacks. You need to be careful though, as the larger wrinkles will tend to continue to extend to, even over, the edge of the pot.
Those may be absolutely useless, of course, but, hey, you asked.
Sarah Ann, bordering on antique
roger martin - Posted - 06/12/2008: 14:43:28
LOL Antique Sara!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your suggestion about evening out the wrinkles by spacing out and making small wrinkles combined with a large wrinkle here and there just might work.
Right now I'm out of experimenting time. I have 2 banjos that I have to get done so I can get them on the wall in our craft shop in the mall where I work.
Every time I get a couple of banjos done and take them to work, They sell before I can get them upstairs to the craft shop.Its a problem but one I dont mind at all LOL
The last one sold a week or so ago before I could even get it set up properly.My boss saw it and picked it up and wouldnt let go.So I had to sell it to him.Since I had built that banjo out of scrap laying around the shop, when I saw the check he wrote , at the bottom where you list what the check is for it said " scrap wood".
Hopefully someone has more time then I do right now and will try a tackhead project,if so keep us in the loop!
Roger MArtin
Tyri - Posted - 06/12/2008: 15:31:17
Howdy, folks.
Friend Rodger: A few years back (
), I used to use a plywood "press" to install hide heads on drums. I can't get to my photos, but since I'm stuck anyway, I thought I'd try to describe the process. Maybe there'll be something you can use.
1. I'd start by cutting three pieces of 3/4" 7-ply board to approximately 3" larger than the shell diameter. With all three clamped together, drill four (or more)equally-spaced 5/16" holes around the perimeter, about an inch from the outer edge. Unclamp and remove one board. Re-clamp two boards together, with the holes lined up, and cut out the center to slightly larger (1/8" each side, say < 1/4") than the outer diameter of your shell. Sand the inside curve smooth, and round over the edges a bit, so it doesn't tear your material.
2. Place the solid piece (bottom of press) under the shell. Measure the height of the bottom board and your shell, and add about an inch or two. This is the length of 1/4" bolts (or 1/4" threaded rods) you'll need for each hole (and enough nuts to secure/tighten top and bottom).
3. Temporarily attach the two upper parts of the press to each other with a couple of wood screws (make sure the holes are lined up), and place on a flat surface. Lay head material, top-side facing down, on the "doughnut". Invert your drumshell, center it on the material, and gently press down until the rim touches your work surface.
4. Insert the bolts (or rods secured with a pair of nuts on the end) into the bottom piece (the solid one), and lower it on to the drum assembly, so that the bolts enter the holes in the rings. Holding the upper rings in place, turn the assembly sideways on the work surface. Remove the two wood screws, and carefully slide the upper ring off, while trying Not to dislodge the second ring.
5. Finger-tighten nuts to the top of the bolts, until the nuts are snug against the upper ring. With the assembly "standing" on the ends of the bolts (upside-down) on the table, I'd begin securing the material to the underside of the ring, while stretching out wrinkles, etc. I used a staple-gun, but I don't think that'd work with this material. Sumo glue, maybe?
6. Once everything's centered and secured, I'd just start tightening the nuts around the ring until it sounded right. After banging in the tacks, or the glue set, I'd trim the material, and remove the press. Ta-daaa!
I'm still trying to fight my way clear, so I can spend some quality time with my workbench. 
Good health and Happy experiments!
-Brywn
Gran Tyhri''s favorite Scot
Edited by - Tyri on 06/13/2008 06:08:05
dhergert - Posted - 06/17/2008: 15:28:33
Hi All,
Just got back from Huck Finn yesterday. We had a great time, lots of jamming and did a few performances on the "small" stages.
While jamming in front of our trailer one night, I "discovered" a neat use for Yellowstone material...
We were dry camping and to save on battery power I light up our Coleman white gas two globe lantern. Unfortunately, my wife was bothered by the brightness of the lantern. I had given some Yellowstone material out that day and had a 15x15 square left, so I wrapped it around the lantern and taped the sides together with masking tape. It being Nomex, while it got very hot (as lots of bugs would attest) it didn't even scorch. The masking tape got pretty excited, but since it was on the outside, insulated by the Nomex, it didn't burn off. It made a wonderful defuser, and with the Yellowstone stamp on the outside, was pretty neat advertising.
Aside from the great jamming, programming and musical fellowship, there were a few very high points at Huck Finn for me related to Yellowstone heads... I was very honored to be able to provide some Yellowstone head material to Mark Delaney of the Country Gentlemen and to John Hickman of Berline, Crary, Hickman. Mark heard my Ballbearing and loved its tone and had been reading in this thread a bit; as such he wanted to try the Yellowstone heads himself. He also mentioned it back stage and I think that's where John originally heard about it. Both of these gentlemen are wonderful banjoists and both are very familiar with banjo maintenace and setup. I'm really looking forward to hearing from them as they install and then hear what Yellowstone heads sound like.
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
dhergert - Posted - 06/21/2008: 00:11:25
Hi Jake,
Just wanted to let you know I'm trying your duct tape method on a very special banjo. This particular banjo has a fairly loose, but very valuable pot-metal tension hoop and I want the flesh hoop to be a bit thicker and I also want to keep the tension relatively low with as few dimples as possible. I'll let you know how it goes.
quote:
Originally posted by Hobbyhorse
Hello everyone (again)! Just wanted to share a little trick that helped me with the installation of the heads...
I tried making new flesh hoops as one would normally do... grab some new wire and bend it out until it's circular enough to 'do the job.' Well, I didn't like how the Yellowstone was slipping out from under the hoop while I was pushing down with the tension hoop on top of it... so!
I found a new use for duct tape. If you wrap a thin layer of duct tape onto your ex-coat hanger, wire, what have you, around the entire surface... it'll actually help to 'hold' the head just a little bit while you get the rest of the job done. That extra friction turned what would've been an hour-long job getting a new head on a tenor into a half-hour-long job.
...
Jake in Vermont
http://www.myspace.com/jakewildwood
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergerthttp://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
dhergert - Posted - 06/22/2008: 02:50:05
Well, I've been having fun tonight...
The banjo I'm working on is a local performer's 1935 Style 3/75 flathead and 5-string conversion. It has the original pot metal flange and tension hoop which are both changing shape due to age and tension. This is particularly why the Yellowstone head is nice, it can be mounted at low tension and still sound great. The tension hoop is loose enough that I wanted a thicker flesh hoop, so using Jake's duct-tape-around-the-flesh-hoop trick helped quite a bit. I did get some dimples at low tension, but happily they are mostly under the tailpiece and armrest.
Wow! This banjo looks and sounds great.
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
mralston - Posted - 06/22/2008: 03:48:14
Hey Don -
Glad your installation turned out OK...... I'm not at all familiar with that particular banjo & hardware, but I do have some sad experience with frail, pot metal banjo parts. Nice going ! ! !
Mark Ralston
A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon
www.yellowstone-jewelry.com
Hobbyhorse - Posted - 06/22/2008: 06:52:40
Don: I'm glad that it worked out!
I figure, it's not going to be seen, so it's not a big deal to use such a low-brow technique. It also helps to get rid of some of those tearing woes when a flesh hoop is really thin.
Jake in Vermont
http://jakewildwood.com - my songs
http://thewildwoodflower.com - our store
dhergert - Posted - 06/22/2008: 11:00:54
Thanks Mark and Jake...
The flesh hoop material I'm using is round, about 3/32" diameter.. It usually works fine, but I've had 2 heavy tone ring banjos so far, both vintage, that have had extremely loose tension hoops, and both of those had trouble with this thickness of flesh hoop, allowing it to pull up inside the tension hoop during installation (or more frustratingly, shortly after).
Personally I still like round flesh hoops for Yellowstone heads because in general I've had them tear the material less. But having a flesh hoop pull up under the tension hoop is a major pain, of course requiring disassembly and correction. That's what happened with both of the vintage banjos I've had this happen with now. One I corrected by gluing; the added thickness of the glue spaced the tension hoop out evenly over the diameter of the rim and centered it over the flesh hoop. The other is the most recent one, which I did the duct tape trick with, essentially making the flesh hoop thicker.
Btw, I've just about stopped doing the CPR process lately. My observation is that unless you're going to use high tension with Yellowstone heads, the dimples are going to happen anyway. As our resident seamstress Sarah Ann observed, you can't form a flat, relatively unstretching sheet of material over a round form without wrinkles or pleats; with Yellowstone heads, the larger wrinkle or pleat locations are typically where the dimples form... (I've tried cutting the Yellowstone head material where pleats are starting to form to relieve the tension. This helps, but as we have all found, Yellowstone heads work better without perforations or cuts that can turn into tears.)
Interestingly, without exception, the people I've installed Yellowstone heads for like them as-is, with the dimples. Perhaps it is the tone, perhaps the look, perhaps the low tension... But they all want them as is. And that's basically how I feel too, all of my vintage banjos have dimples, although I've been able to hide most of them under armrests, tailpieces and head guards. But the tone of these heads is so good I'm real hesitant to change them.
Those of you who know vintage Gibsons probably recognize this current banjo I've worked on as being pretty close to a grail bluegrass banjo. It's probably the most valuable banjo I've installed Yellowstone heads on. While it's a 5-string conversion and not an original flathead (although it sports a late '70s Gibson flathead tone ring), the rim, pot-metal flange and tension hoop are extremely desirable in the bluegrass market, which of course is why a nice low-tension Yellowstone head is so good for it. And it sounds great. I've always preferred Archtop and Ballbearing Gibsons, but with a Yellowstone head, this banjo really sings.
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
Edited by - dhergert on 06/22/2008 11:02:48
Hobbyhorse - Posted - 06/27/2008: 20:40:24
Hello guys -- I just finished putting heads on a May Bell banjo-uke and another (probably) Slingerland-built 11" tenor banjo... they sound great! The Yellowstone gave the uke a lot more snap and volume... pics are to follow tomorrow...!
Pretty soon I'll be finishing off an 1870s fretless (have to finish making the new ebony fingerboard for it) and I'll post pics of that... I'm really excited on that one, especially after seeing Mark's Tube videos of his tenor-to-fretless with the Yellows... sure to sound great!
Jake in Vermont
http://jakewildwood.com - My Songs!
http://youtube.com/jakewildwood - My Videos!
http://thewildwoodflower.com - Our Store!
Hobbyhorse - Posted - 06/30/2008: 14:11:43
And here they are (along with the rest of the 'jos on the rack!)...
Left to right:
c.1900 Lakeside Parlor (Lyon & Healy)
c.1900 Bowlback Mandolin (probably Lyon & Healy too)
c.1925 Tenor (probably Slingerland)
c.1925 May Bell Banjo-Uke (Slingerland)
c.1920 Supertone 5-String (Wm. Lange for Sears)
Jake in Vermont
http://jakewildwood.com - My Songs!
http://youtube.com/jakewildwood - My Videos!
http://thewildwoodflower.com - Our Store!
Shamrock - Posted - 06/30/2008: 14:34:44
A nice looking collection.
gr Juup
Excuse my English, I think in Dutch
bluemule_77 - Posted - 07/08/2008: 14:26:17
Hey folks,
It's been close to six months (and countless playing-hours) since I installed my Yellowstone. I play clawhammer, over the head near the neck, and today I discovered that there's a little bit o' brass tone ring showing through where my thumb catches the 5th string. It will be interesting to see how this hole behaves as it gets bigger.
The other discovery, which I had suspected at an earlier date, is that the head *must be* stretching some. I have been keeping it fairly tight, and over the months had to periodically tighten the head up. What I'm seeing now is that my trimmed edge is about 1/4" below the top of the head, where it used to be almost on a level with it. I wondered whether the head was slipping around or drawing tighter around the flesh hoop (and this may account for some of what I've observed, as the tension hoop is not 1/4" lower at the fingerboard but only about 1/8") for a time, but I'm also seeing that the tiny puckers I had around the edge are now actually straddling the tone ring and probably more on the side than the top now. I say I've kept it tight, but to clarify I've never squeaked any nuts or really applied much torque. I usually use a spinner handle with a deep socket held between thumb and two fingertips and torque only 'til (in my estimation) "snug" or less.
BM
Edited by - bluemule_77 on 07/08/2008 14:36:49
mralston - Posted - 07/08/2008: 15:34:26
Hey Brian -
First of all, CONGRATS on your baby girl ! ! ! !
Wear performance is one of those unknowns about the Yellowstone material, and if your head wore through, that's definitely not a good thing. I generally don't play any one banjo more than about an hour or so per week, and I haven't observed nearly that much erosion & wear. How does the wear location & degree of wearing compare with other heads that you've used ?
Stretch is also a little bit more of a factor than it seemed at first. I've noticed that the heads slack off a bit in the first couple of weeks, but seem to hold pretty steady after that. I also tend to install the heads pretty slack to start with, so I haven't noticed excessive drawdown on tension hoops.
I hope some of the others who are trying out the material weigh in with wear & stretch observations. Frank N..... how is your dumbeg (drum) holding out ??
Mark Ralston
A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon
www.yellowstone-jewelry.com
dhergert - Posted - 07/08/2008: 15:56:31
Hey Brian,
Interesting news about the hole. I expect one day to also find something similar where my fingerpicks strike the head every once in a while. When and if I do, I'll apply that clear post-office tape over the area where my picks strike. That tape feels like a thin mylar; it holds exceedingly well to the Yellowstone material and will make a very good protective layer.
I guess an interesting question would be... Does a skin head similarly get a hole in it from the kind of wear we're documenting? I don't know the answer to that...
Regarding stretching, or slipping, or whatever is happening, it will be interesting to watch this over time. As you may have noticed in an earlier post of mine, I've stopped the CPR pre-stretching to get dimples and puckers out because I always strive for a low-tension mount anyway. (Getting *all* dimples and puckers out tends to require high tension which I avoid; so I get as many dimples and puckers out early as is possible, before applying much tension, and then I leave them as-is, hiding them if possible under armrests, tailpieces, etc.) That being the case, I've not noticed much if any stretching on the non-pre-stretched heads, and despite the low tension they tend to stay extremely flat...
I have one head that I sort of over-did the CPR pre-stretch with and sort of "perma-dented' the head in the middle. This head has kept a memory of that, sagging enough under the bridge that I've sanded the outer feet on that bridge to keep it flat on top. But ironically this banjo is probably the finest sounding of all of mine, with the sagging under the bridge, so I really hesitate to re-head this banjo unless there's a more compelling reason to do so. This head remains pretty stable though, I've not tightened it for a long time now.
Btw, good point about timing, we're getting right up to the 6-month point with may of our Yellowstone heads. It's a good time to look things over and see how they're all doing.
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
Co-distributor, Yellowstone Banjo Heads
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
bluemule_77 - Posted - 07/08/2008: 16:21:22
Mark:
Thanks! We're tickled, and she's doing great.
Mark, Don, and everyone:
I can't really compare the wear to other types of heads. I've only been banjoing for about a year-and-a-half, and in that time have changed banjos, and each banjo has changed heads -- this banjo with a Yellowstone is my longest continuous set-up. The post-office tape might be the thing to preserve where my worn spot is showing, though I'm sorta interested to watch its development. Will it lead to a sudden, catastrophic rip? Or will it just happily but unobtrusively grow larger?
My assessment of "tight" versus "slack" might, also due to relative inexperience, be meaningless. Having some other setup issues (and needing a fret dress that I just pulled off this afternoon) was requiring that I maximize my bridge height, so I tried getting a little sag out under the bridge. I never had it tight enough to eliminate the depression, but tight enough that a flick against the head would respond with a sharp "pop." I wish I had some quantitative measure of this to relate!
Curious to hear more reports.
BM
bluemule_77 - Posted - 07/19/2008: 12:55:26
Well, this morning I did something I'd been debating doing for a while, but with some unexpected results. I took the old, old 11" skin head off of my parts-banjo to try on the Reiter that has been sporting the Yellowstone for half a year. I figured I was sacrificing my (slightly worn) Yellowstone, and possibly ruining the experiment mentioned above concerning the evolution of the wear spot. I decided that if I didn't like the skin, I'd install another new sample back on to the Reiter.
To my delight, however, I was able to instantly reinstall the Yellowstone on my parts banjo. That's right: without any adhesive, the Yellowstone held its shape well enough to reuse. The trimmed edge did fan away from the crown, but I worked the second tension hoop down from one side to the other with a little turning both directions and a tiny bit of tucking of the edge at the very last. At one point, the flesh hoop even scooted out from the head, but no harm was done -- popped it back in and installed it. The result? I think both banjos were improved through this swap. While I'm no authority on skin heads, I do think that this is a particularly good quality one, with lots of age on it. It was pretty thumpy and quiet on the parts banjo -- but my old worn Yellowstone perked it up a bunch. The skin head helped tame a bit of harshness in the Reiter that I'd grown (probably excessively) conscious of, and it may have had something to do with just keeping the Yellowstone too tight on it -- because of low action, I had a high bridge and needed to maximize every millimeter of it just to get a reasonable string height. In a sense, the banjos were tonally at extremes, but have now been brought much nearer to each other in terms of tone and volume. I'll have to play each a while, and I may yet install another Yellowstone on the Reiter. The skin head has proven pretty stable on the other banjo (and I'm in the desert SW) and that'd be my only worry with it.
I figured the part of this story most relevant was that I swapped the Yelowstone onto another banjo! Premounted heads? Yes! They just need to be kept of a form, tight, for six months. ;)
BM
Check out my introduction of my new baby girl!
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=120831
mralston - Posted - 07/19/2008: 13:37:27
Hey Brian -
Sounds like two happy outcomes....... Yellowstone head went onto your parts banjo OK, and skin head went onto your Reiter ! ! Don't know if the 6-month gestation period for mounted Yellowstone Heads is going to be practical, though ;)
I went back and took a look at your photos again. Looks like the tension hoop on your Reiter may have drawn down to where the top of the hoop was pretty close to the level of the head. I fixed up a banjo for my stepdaughter where the tension hoop wound up being a tad low, Yellowstone head also developed some wear..... pictures on my hompage.
I've been trying to put on tension hoops so that the top of the hoop stays at least 1/8" ~ 3/16" above the head..... I think this will protect the heads somewhat against excessive wear.
So is your daughter letting you sleep through the night yet ??????
Mark Ralston
A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon
www.yellowstone-jewelry.com
dhergert - Posted - 07/19/2008: 14:35:04
Hey guys,
Brian, glad to hear your head swapping worked so well. The Yellowstone head material does have good memory, as such it should swap pretty nicely, but it's nice to see it has worked as we guessed. We know adhesive works too, but if you don't *have* to use it, that's nice.
On another front, you all may remember at the beginning of the year at NAMM I played a new cello banjo prototype CEB-5 by Gold Tone and was hoping to get one. Well, it arrived yesterday, and today it had its first gig. I'll be doing a review on it in a week or so, but just in case anyone is also interested, I can tell you it's a pretty wonderful banjo...
Before getting this banjo I was agonizing about whether to put a Yellowstone on it. It comes with a very nice amber colored 14" Renassance head. Well Gold Tone made this decision easy for me -- this particular banjo is even a little more special, a collectable low serial number and even more, it's gold plated. While I'm sure a Yellowstone would sound great on it, I've been extremely honored by Gold Tone to be able to get this particular special banjo and as such I want to keep it as stock as possible, letting it reflect all the design, setup and care that the Gold Tone folks put into it.
I'll let you all know when I've got a review and some YouTubes up of this wonderful banjo.
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
Co-distributor, Yellowstone Banjo Heads
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
TLG - Posted - 07/19/2008: 15:21:48
I have removed 2 "Yellowstone" heads & remounted on another banjo pot before glue was discovered. To date I have mounted 4 heads using glue & taken off to be used on other banjos.
I mount it the suggested way, leave it on a day or so without trimming, remove the brackets & tension hoop, get the glue down inbetween the fleshoop & skin, reinstall the brackets & tension hoop, let the dry a day & trim & then remove the head. This is working good for me.
Tommy
Hobbyhorse - Posted - 08/03/2008: 10:22:18
Just checking in everyone...
I have two new banjos I'm working on that'll have Yellowstones:
What looks like a plain c.1880 Buckbee with flush frets...
And also what looks like a fretless late 1870s perhaps English-made banjo, but with a Dobson/Buck style headstock.
I'm excited to hear what these'll sound like with Yellows and nylguts, as I haven't had the chance yet to hear that combination. As far as wear goes, all the banjos I've headed with Yellows seem to be holding up just fine. Maybe it's because I usually use pretty low tension to get that boom out of the 'jos?
I'm one of those bad players who rests his pinky on the head, and I've played the banjos with the Yellows on them quite a bit -- the banjo-uke has gotten a considerable amount of strumming abuse -- so maybe Brian's case was an isolated one? Hoping so. :)
Stretching: I had noticed a hair of it after the first month or so, but I haven't had one stretch on me for quite a while now.
Jake in Vermont
http://jakewildwood.com - My Songs!
http://youtube.com/jakewildwood - My Videos!
http://thewildwoodflower.com - Our Store!
Tyri - Posted - 08/09/2008: 08:19:26
Hey there, folks. I hope everyone's surviving the summer well.
I've (almost) just completed my first succesful inverted, one-handed z-banjo pull. It's on there, but still needs tweaking. From the size of the pot, I wasn't expecting much in the way of tone, but the volume is everything I've come to expect from this material. Thanks again Don. Mark.
Why inverted? Most of my z's came with, or still have, calfskin pulled and tucked underneath the rim (to the inside). Honestly, other than inertia, I don't know why they're pulled like that.
First, I had to duct-tape the flesh hoop to keep it from slipping.
The easy part.
Tucked and trimmed.
Taa-Daah!
Y'all have fun!
-Brywn
Gran Tyhri''s favorite Scot
Hobbyhorse - Posted - 08/09/2008: 08:32:45
Wow -- that was an impressive feat on the zither! Cute one, too.
In other news: the previous owners of this house left a lot of thick solder around and I've now used it a couple of times as a flesh hoop and it works fine. Because it bends itself so easily, it'll "mold" itself under your tension hoop when you pull the Yellowstone tight, which greatly helps remove the lopsided-installation problems I've sometimes had.
Not to mention, it's just so easy to cut and shape!
By the way, folks, I'm super-impressed with the tone of Yellowstones combined with nylgut. I never expected to have such raw power and brilliant tone out of my 10" buckbee, but it's there, oh lordy lord...!
And also: the material is great to print on! I had some scraps left over from a banjo-uke install and my lady-love Gocco-screenprinted one of her card designs on it, and the ink stays in good shape pretty well. We tried washing it, scrubbing it, and the scratch test... all passed. Pretty interesting. I'd also like to note that you can easily remove coffee drops from your banjo head if you've got a Yellow installed. :)
Try that on skin!
Jake in Vermont
http://jakewildwood.com - My Songs!
http://youtube.com/jakewildwood - My Videos!
http://thewildwoodflower.com - Our Store!
dhergert - Posted - 08/09/2008: 11:01:58
Hey guys,
Thanks for the good news... That Zither banjo looks very nice, Brywn. And Jake, that solder idea is quite the idea, thanks...
Printing has been in the back of my mind since around December when I visited the RK factory with Greg Rich and met his installation guy, who is also a printer. We exchanged contact info and I left some Yellowstone material with him. I should get back to him... I could see a line of custom designs on Yellowstone heads .
I've been really engrossed (er, my wife would say obsessed) with my new Gold Tone cello banjo (CEB-5). My other banjos are complaining of neglect. I've found some very nice flatwound steel strings that work very nicely on it, and have also received from Gold Tone's custom shop some very nice bone-capped bridges... I'm still using the original Renaissance head with this banjo, but have come close to putting a Yellowstone on it -- in fact I've even got the material cut and a flesh hoop made, both waiting patiently for me to install them...
The big thing keeping me from doing it is the unknown... The tone of this cello banjo -- the factor that caught my attention in January at NAMM -- is so wonderful and deep with those thick strings and octave low tunings, but the volume is the typical muted effect you'd expect from a classic banjo. My problem is I don't just use it for classic style playing, I use it for everything. As such I'd love the extra volume of a Yellowstone, but I've never heard the tone of a Yellowstone with notes this low. I know Yellowstone heads growl with the low D strings on bluegrass banjos (which is the highest string on the cello banjo), so I probably shouldn't be too afraid. And to be fair, also influencing my delay is that the 14" Renaissance head on this puppy is by itself a thing of beauty, translucent amber that goes very nicely with the gold internal and external parts on this CEB-5.
If this was a vintage classic-banjo era cello banjo, this decision would be much easier for me to make. For me personally there is no longer any strong rational to use anything but a Yellowstone head on any vintage banjo. There are just too many good reasons for installing Yellowstone heads on these older banjos, and that's why all my vintage banjos (and a growing number of friends' vintage banjos) wear them. Anyway, I'm sure I'll move to Yellowstone one day with this nice new CEB-5, but for now, I guess I'm waiting for something real and significant to trigger that decision.
Did anyone here make it to Clifftop this year?
P.S. Late news: I couldn't stand it. Once again all of my banjos have Yellowstone heads. The news is very good, I can say with confidence that the difference that Yellowstone heads make on small banjo rims is the same difference that Yellowstone heads make on big banjo rims. One more quick observation, there is a lot of area on a 14" head -- my hands are sore 
.
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
Edited by - dhergert on 08/10/2008 02:46:47
roger martin - Posted - 08/10/2008: 07:49:16
I still havent noticed any wears areas or problems with the yellowstone at this point.The only difference I see is the "hair" that pops up after a while.But to me it just looks more like rough skin,I have yellowstone on my "work" banjo and play it everyday and I'm pretty hard on it, with no problems.
But even if we find some wear, considering the cost factor I have no problem with replacing a head now and then.But I dont think its going to be a problem.
I just installed yellowstone on a new banjo I'm just finishing up and its cranked down pretty tight.The tool I built to help on installs makes it easier each time to get a head on.Normally I have to work on the install a while and take a break,but this time the whole process was quick and easy.
Roger MArtin
dhergert - Posted - 08/10/2008: 09:48:28
Hi Roger,
That's been my experience too. Lots of fuzz in areas where there's a fair amount of contact -- in particular from when I wash the surface of my bluegrass banjo's head... But so far, no wearing.
I just spent about 90 minutes playing my cello banjo. After all of my anxiety about doing it, I'm very glad to have a Yellowstone head on it now. Like I said before, the Renaissance head is very nice, I in particular like the looks of it, but the tone is also extremely good. The Yellowstone head, though, does everything in tone and volume better. Much more volume, much more punch. Very controllable, there are hotspots all over the head now, where before the hot spot was pretty much on the bridge half of the head. There's much more tone separation now, the individual low notes don't muddle as easily. I can still get that beautiful muted tone from this banjo, but also there are a number of other tone personalities available now. There is that bass growl that you've probably all heard on your low strings on the Yellowstone head banjos, but there's a lot more of it available now on this banjo because all the notes are low. One very interesting new tone personalty now, right close to the bridge, is an electric-slap-bass sound that is very loud and fun to play with, I can see some future with that...
Installation went pretty easily. This banjo has 32 hook and nut sets and shoes, and it's brand new so I tightened every shoe bolt and a number of other fixtures in the process of installing the Yellowstone head. I followed my now-normal practice of not doing CPR on this head, in particular because I was concerned about having too much of a dip under the bridge with this big of a head. The head is very flat and solid. I would say head tension is probably about medium on this banjo. For a smaller head I'd probably keep it lower, but this big of a head requres a bit more tension to keep it flat. I was able to bring up the tension hoop a bit, with the Renaissance head it sat about parallel to the head. By itself that's not a problem for me, but the tailpiece needed a higher foundation to rest on securely so now with the higher tension hoop it has that.
I did have a couple of surprises with this banjo during the installation. I had thought it had a brass-tube tone ring. That's not the case, it's got a rather nice, thick (and relatively heavy) brass skirt, about 1/4" thick and an inch wide, rounded at the top, around the upper outside of the rim. So it's a relatively simple, but heavy tone ring, which explains why the Yellowstone head makes such a difference.
This Yellowstone head has only been on this banjo for about 8 hours now, so it's still settling in a little. At this point it seems pretty stable with tuning and all. I'll probably play it frequently today and get a better feel for the new dynamics on this banjo.
So, once again, all my banjos have Yellowstone heads on them...
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
mralston - Posted - 08/10/2008: 11:35:58
CLIFFTOP 2008 YELLOWSTONE REPORT -
I had two banjo-repair persons tell me that they were looking for a calfskin-like material that they could use for old banjos for Vegan customers (FYI, Vegans are the strict vegetarians who don't consume any animal product, not people from Spock's planet). So.... Yellowstone heads are apparently just the ticket for Vegan old-timey banjo players.
I learned that the heads have a reaction to immersion in water. During some of the intense cloudbursts at Clifftop some of my old banjos got rained on. The head on a banjo-mandolin did slack up and the bridge sank a little bit, making the action too low. I suspect that this was similar to something Don Hergert found out from the Nomex tech rep...... someone who put this material on bass drums for a marching band found that, if rained on, the water will slightly lubricate the head and it may slip between the flesh hoop & tension hoop. Problem went away after the banjo dried out in the sun and I snugged the head down about 1/2 turn of the nuts. No-one else @ Clifftop seemed to notice the head-slackening issue (although I sure did) and I sold all three of my old banjo-mandolins after the rain quit. Some of my banjos with calfskin heads were much more affected and took about two days to recover. Simple work-around solution..... don't play your Yellowstone-headed banjo in the rain.
Gave some samples to a gentleman who said that a friend of a friend of a friend of his did product development for Remo..... curious to see where that goes.
Mark Ralston
A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon
www.yellowstone-jewelry.com
dhergert - Posted - 08/10/2008: 12:18:18
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the Clifftop report, I had heard something on the cello banjo side of things from up there, but was wondering about the Yellowstone side...
Yes, serious emersion in water is likely to cause slackening, as had been reported to us some time ago by the Du Pont rep. I'm still not sure if it is due to mechanical slippage or the material stretching with severe moisture... I don't think it's worse than a skin head, but it is something to watch out for. So if you're going to use your banjo as an oar or a snow shovel, well, as the signature line says, don't wonder ...
I've been out in sprinkles for a few minutes (I run for cover with any percipitation if I've got a banjo with me) and didn't notice anything, but that was with my Ballbearing Mastertone, which would have compensated for slakening by raising the spring loaded tone ring. Also, as you know, it never rains (heavily) in Southern California 
.
Thanks again for the report!
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
mralston - Posted - 08/15/2008: 04:12:50
Has anyone else noticed bridges shifting on Yellowstone head material ? Most of my banjos get Nylgut strings with which, along with my usual setup, the bridges haven't seemed to shift. Two recent, steel-strung (Martin-Vega medium gage) banjos had problems with shifting if I played hard (a la Dave Macon "banjo rappin"). One was an old Whyte Laydie tenor conversion ....... I was pretty bummed out that I couldn't seem to keep it in tune. Problem was that the bridge was shifting a tiny amount when played hard, causing it to go out of tune frequently.
I super-glued a piece of 180 grit silicon carbide sandpaper to the base of the bridge and the result was dramatic - no more shifting, and the banjo plays well even if played hard.
Curious if anyone else has noticed the bridge shifting effect, also if others have used similar approach to reduce bridge shifting. Bridge below is about 2.5" wide, black walnut w/ ebony cap.
Mark Ralston
A man comes to this world naked and bare; He goes through life with troubles and care; He departs this life and goes we don’t know where; But he’ll be all right there if he lives all right here ............................................... Uncle Dave Macon
www.yellowstone-jewelry.com
bluemule_77 - Posted - 08/15/2008: 06:33:26
I'd used a rosewood bridge on my 5-string with the Yellowstone and steel strings and it never budged. The sandpaper is sorta cool though...
BM
dhergert - Posted - 08/15/2008: 07:03:51
Hi Mark,
I've got a relatively slack-strung nylon strung S.S. Stewart whose bridge will shift every once in a while. I carry it in a gig bag so there's extra reason for shifting there... And also, its bridge shifted regularly before Yellowstones, with the other head I had on it which was an old Weatherking. I use a thinned-at-the-top Grover bone insert bridge on that banjo.
I'm a relatively light fingerstyle player, so shifting while I'm playing is pretty much a non-issue.
I did try violin rosin on the bridge feet. It helped a little, but not enough to recommend it. I really like your sandpaper idea.
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
Mumble Peg - Posted - 08/17/2008: 05:29:20
To Mark and Don:
Regarding the occasional reports of slippage or (perceived) stretching. Could there be a relationship with the type of flesh hoop used? That is to say, does the stretching occur more often with the round wire hoops as opposed to the square brass 1/8" thick hoops?
I have an 11" tenor with Yellowstone mounted to a Vega square hoop and believe me, it is stretched very tight and have experienced zero stretching or pulling up from the hoop.
It would seem that the square edges would hold better than the round surface.
Many old calfskin heads using wire hoops had string spirally wound around the wire to prevent slippage. Also many square hoops had a thin muslin wrap.
Wayne Norman
dhergert - Posted - 08/17/2008: 06:25:09
Hi Wayne,
I think there are two situations we're talking about regarding slippage and/or stretching... One is when the head is new, which seems to stop after a few weeks. The other is as has been reported due to soaking. Mark has experienced the latter due to exposure in a rain storm, and because he usually uses a square flesh hoop I tend to believe his experience is more that of stretching due to soaking...
Which raises a very interesting question... We've always thought Yellowstone material is relatively unaffected by water, but I have to wonder if there really might be something positive about mounting them soaked, just like mounting a skin head. In theory, if the Yellowstone material stretches due to soaking more like a skin head does -- as has been evidenced by these accidental soakings -- we might have a key way to get the flat material to stretch proportionally over the round surface and consistently get rid of the puckers (without CPR).
I thnk my next head mount will be done with some water-soaked Yellowstone material...
Btw, interesting about the spirally wound string and thin muslin... I have to wonder if our duct tape wrap might be doing the same thing. I've taken to wrapping my round flesh hoops with duct tape regularly now.
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
Edited by - dhergert on 08/17/2008 06:26:13
Hobbyhorse - Posted - 08/17/2008: 17:26:53
Uh-oh, sounds like someone's going to call me out for my abusive duct-tape ideas in the near future... :) And then when it turns out using solder as a flesh hoop turns the Yellowstone heads into Greenbean heads I'll have more punishing trials ahead for me!
As far as slipping goes? I've not seen a hair of slipping on anything but one banjo... regardless of whether it was wrapped in duct tape, plain Jane, etc... and that was a banjo-mandolin with a less-than-stellar-fitting tension hoop. I think Yellows work best on better-built banjos... which is no surprise. It only makes sense that a better flesh hoop/tension hoop mating yields a better pull.
But seriously, if soaking the head helps mounting, that could be really interesting. I haven't noticed my heads going slack from damp weather (we've had a lot of it recently), but then again my heads are all pretty loose in the first place for bass oomph.
About the CPR method? Never once used it, no offense to the idea... I think mostly I kept away from it because of fears of putting some imprints in the head. I'm now simply putting the head over the rim, pulling the flesh hoop down approximately to where I'd like it, and then getting some third-hand help to ram the tension hoop down... add four hooks... and a little fine tugging from the opposite side of the rim after I pull the head "over, through, and out" in one position, then the next, and all seems to go well.
Unlike a skin head, which makes aligning your flesh hoop at the right depth from the top of the rim rather easy because it slides so nicely when wet, the Yellowstone makes this much harder, which is my only complaint on install... I'm always so busy making sure I'm getting the head down without puckers that sometimes I wind up with a flesh hoop a little too high or low on initial install.
Jake in Vermont
http://jakewildwood.com - my music and also my business
http://youtube.com/jakewildwood - my videos on YouTube
http://thewildwoodflower.com - our country store
dhergert - Posted - 08/27/2008: 18:25:10
Had a hugely fun time at Summergrass... Lots of jamming. The Yellowstone heads continue to get good attention. I played my new cello banjo and it also attracted lots of attention. With the Yellowstone head on it, it could be distinctly heard in all the jams and people would stop by to see what was making that new sound...
Summergrass is near Oceanside, California, near the coast. There was lots of humidity, especially Saturday night, and I found my Ballbearing and my Cello Banjo both needing to have their heads tightened -- both of them had buzzing issues by the end of the jamming evening (or really, 3:00am in the morning). It pretty much had to be the high humidity, as I've not experienced the same with these banjos in equally long and demanding jams out in the more arid areas where I live and normally frequent. I tighened their heads on Sunday morning, which raised their action and solved the buzzing issues, and I didn't have any other problems at Summergrass, nor have I since then in jamming near my home.
I suspect what we're seeing is that Yellowstone heads seat better when they are moist or steamed, the natural mechanical lubricant allowing them to conform better to the roundness of the pot. I still haven't mounted a Yellowstone head wet, but I am getting more and more tempted to try it.
P.S. Here's a new YouTube that shows how the Yellowstone sounds on my Cello Banjo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACDtdnIBkOs
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
Edited by - dhergert on 08/27/2008 18:28:13
dhergert - Posted - 08/28/2008: 08:48:33
Just a quick update.
I installed a Yellowstone head on another Gold Tone 14" CEB rim last night. It was just the right opportunity to try a wet install...
Actually, this was a partially wet install, just before I pulled the head into nearly it's final configuration I dribbled some water into the fold area that goes around the flesh hoop, and as well, applied water to the outside around the flesh hoop with a sponge.
This area of the head was pretty generously wet, but not in an area where the exposed wood of the rim would get wet. If it made a difference related to dimples and seating, I couldn't tell at the time, nor does it appear any different this morning from the dry installs I've done in the past. At this moment in time I'd have to say there is no observable difference.
Best,
-- Don
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
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