Try tabbing stuff out from recordings. Great ear training plus youre using tab from what you hear

I don’t really read tab—I can figure it out though. I learn by ear and by listening to/watching live playing. I use tab to find notes here and there I can’t quite get by ear. But I always start with a significant framework of what I’ve learned by ear. So i never have timing problems when I turn to tab as a supplement.

Use the tab to figure out the licks you cant work out by ear.

Eventually you'll build an internal library of licks and you'll be able to guesstimate what you're hearing in those mysterious sounding measures

Sounds like you’re not able to read tab properly, pertaining to the timing / note duration. Do you know the difference between quarter notes and eighth notes? Can you count the beats to à measure looking at the tab notes?

Tablature is great tool for learning. But the problem is that you can become too dependent on it. The most important thing in learning new material is to have the melody in your head. Then It’s a matter of going measure by measure first looking at the tab then trying to play it again without looking. It can be a painstaking process but it’s worth the effort. Once the material is memorized, it becomes part of your musical vocabulary and that enables you to use what you’ve learned in different musical situations ie. Improvisation.

IMO, you have to listen to what you are going to play a lot before you to to the tab. you have to have it in your head or be real familiar with it. Then when you use the tab, you know the sound and the timing you are going for. And keep it in your head when you play a section of the tab. Tab and Amazing Slowdowner work well together.
ken

I read tab exclusively, just like sheet music. I don't need memorization, I can play thousands of pieces of music...by reading as I play, just like a player in a symphony orchestra.

So what? It is just another way to play music.

pro-tab,, anti-tab …? If I play a tune long enough reading the tab I naturally/organically get so it’s memorized and I won’t need the tab anymore. However, to trapdoor’s point, I don’t think I could, for the first time playing it, have tab to Bill Keith’s arrangement of “New Camptown Races” in front of me and be able to pull it off. Even the long-hairs in the symphony have gone over their sheet music numerous times before à concert,, they just haven’t got it memorized yet, if ever. It’d be odd to see a fve piece bluegrass or OT band on stage with music stands and sheet music in front of them…. but hey, if the end goal is to make music, who’s to say….?

Personally, I don’t see much difference between tab dependency and tab memorization. If your goal is to memorize a tab arrangement, and always play that song exactly as written, IMHO, you are tab dependent.

Bluegrass music is inherently improvisational and group oriented. What you play must be adaptable to the situation. If you've memorized a tab arrangement in the key of G, and the group will be playing it in the key of E, that memorized tab does you no good. If, on the other hand, you've focused on the structure of the song -- the generic chord progression, the melody, the rhythm -- you can adapt. You can even adapt the level of complexity (often necessary to keep up with better players) if you aren't wedded to one memorized tab arrangement.

Tab is a learning tool, a way of seeing how something can be played (until you're able to depend less on your eyes and more on your ears). Tab is also a reference; something you can look up to answer a question. It can be a notation device for recording something you're afraid you'll forget (although remembering the sound of something is far more valuable). But once it crosses over into something you memorize, it starts to become a strait jacket.

I realize that there are some banjo instrumentals that traditionally are played one particular way. Personally, I prefer songs. If I can remember a line or two of the words, I can usually translate that song onto the banjo. Maybe not the same way I've played it before, but that's part of the fun.

I'm another one that used to be tab dependent. I couldn't hear chord changes, couldn't keep up in a jam just trying to strum or roll backup. I decided that I needed to get away from it. I went to jams, watched the rhythm guitar picker change chords. Eventually I began to hear chord changes and got them right sometimes. Then it became easier and I could anticipate the changes and get them most of the time. I learned to pick at least a simple break to songs new to me. The more I jammed, the easier it became and the better I got.

The one thing that really got me started on improvising my own breaks was starting a band. I found that I was working twice as hard to be a good picker for both breaks and backup.

Now? I can use tab if I see one that looks interesting. However, after going through it a time or two, I find myself changing to what was comfortable for me to pick.

I see tab as a tool in the box that includes playing by ear and playing with other people.
You need to get comfortable with reading and playing the correct timing with tab.
The difference between quarter,eighth and sixteenth notes which are more difficult than simply finding the right notes is a big one.
I use tab to quickly show me the workings of a new melody (usually a fiddle tune I want to take to my fiddling friends) or to brush up on a song someone wants me to play tomorrow.

When I was first learning I bought the Pete Wernick "Bluegrass Banjo" Oak book to show me how rolls and chords went together.
I also learned how to read tab as intended by the writer/player.

I learned how to read time when learning to play snare drum for our school bands parade and orchestras.
Tab won't make much sense until you can correctly read time.

And find a guitar player to jam with.Good timing and chord memory are born by playing with others,in my opinion.

My favorite tabs are those written by my heroes like Bill Keith,Bela Fleck,Butch Robins and Tony Trischka.
I wondered "How are they doing that?" Tab guided me through the unknown.It answered my questions and saved me a lot of time.
I'm in no way dependent on tab...I just like knowing it's right there if I need it.
I play by ear 98% of the time I spend picking the banjo or guitar because that's what Dad taught me to do.
Nice to have the mixture of ear and tab to fall back on.

RK-FenderPartsBanjo07,

My primary purpose for using tablature is to establish permanent records of arrangements.

When I started, I used tablature to learn arrangements that were created by other people, but now, I use it mostly for creating and maintaining a record of my own arrangements.

If you're not already using a computer-based tablature program, I would urge you to do so. The computer-based tablature programs will play the arrangements for you. That allows you to listen to an arrangement, evaluate it, and decide if you want to expend the effort necessary to learn it.

I'm primarily a visual learner, so I also use computer--based tablature to analyze the arrangements I create. I can quickly experiment with different licks and immediately listen to them with the tablature play-back feature. If I like what I hear, I can validate the licks by actually playing them myself. In that respect, the computer-based tablature becomes a compositional tool.

I started out learning to play banjo here in the UK in the early 1970s. The internet was a sci-fi dream, there were very few written 'tutors' and (where I lived) no-one to point the way. Only way to learn was by ear, and by watching (rare) local appearances of banjo players. I bought any album I could find that claimed to be bluegrass (some were dire). I listened, listened, listened. Then I listened some more. I ruined more albums than I care to remember by playing them at half speed. Eventually, I developed skills to enable me to learn to play what I heard. Although it was a long, sometimes difficult process, I'd say the ability to learn by ear is a key skill for any serious player. Tab is a superb tool, especially those generated within programs like 'Tabledit'. The user can both see and hear how the piece is played. I use it to write down things I've learned because I find I quickly forget stuff. However, if you rely on tab, you can only play what someone else has learned, and (in my experience) you may find you'd play it differently and get the same notes. If you want to play something for which you can find no tab, you're stuck. In short, there's a place for both playing by ear and using tab, but for me learning a piece by ear is more satisfying.

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Originally posted by chuckv97

Sounds like you’re not able to read tab properly, pertaining to the timing / note duration. 

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Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

I was going to post the same thing.

I would add that in addition to being able to read the timing and note durations correctly, it helps immeasurably to know what the tab is supposed to sound like. Tabs that purport to represent a specific recorded performance are great for this. And,of course, so are playable TablEdit tabs.

PDF or printed tabs that aren't transcriptions of specific performances can be more challenging if your tab and music reading skills aren't great.

Then there's always the issue of tab quality. Did the person who wrote the tab know what they were doing?

It's onto a tangent I suppose, but for me, if it's a song [not just a tune] and the words aren't shown how/where they align with the music, TAB is pretty much useless. 

I assume I'm an outlier in that regard .......... and I kinda figure the rest of youze guys should be thankin' yer lucky stars.  

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Originally posted by Owen

It's onto a tangent I suppose, but for me, if it's a song [not just a tune] and the words aren't shown how/where they align with the music, TAB is pretty much useless.  I listen to what others have played and print the lyrics for use once/while the tab is memorized.

I assume I'm an outlier in that regard .....NOPE..... and I kinda figure the rest of youze guys should be thankin' yer lucky stars.  

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+1

A good exercise would be to find those melody notes of a song in the TAB, , it’s ear training.

I never understood this whole tab dependence thing
It's a skill just like play by ear.
Diversity is the way.
Granted in the early stages tab is more useful getting started. Followed by memorizing ,experimenting and playing by ear
Experience is the hardest teacher, the test comes first followed by the lessons
Good luck
E

Originally posted by Rich Weill   Personally, I don’t see much difference between tab dependency and tab memorization. If your goal is to memorize a tab arrangement, and always play that song exactly as written, IMHO, you are tab dependent.

Now, having learned from hearing an arrangement, what sort of dependency would that be? 'Dependant' as in 'something bad'? I'd say, learning to play something the way you picked it up is a great way of building your own style and something to be encouraged. In time, you'll be creating your own material.

More often than not, we choose adding something to the repertoire, because of liking a particular arrangement. And therefore we'll stick to that as good as we can. 

Originally posted by Rich Weill   What you play must be adaptable to the situation.

Says who? What I'll be playing depends on what the others are doing. If they're changing whatever pleases them from one moment to another, there is no way I could play a structured banjo back up that fits the lead. Or, similarly, others doing random things in backing up my meticulously crafted banjo break would likely ruin it.  No different from a singer switching randomly between baritone and low-tenor. No way I can switch between tenor and high baritone to compensate for that on the spot. Besides, going from 'tight' to 'loose' harmonies wouldn't sound very good anyway.  For instruments this is even more complex (but I'm afraid you've missed that somewhere along the line). That's why we're sticking to what we've rehearsed. Of course, over the years, an arrangement may evolve and we'll develop with it. But not from one gig to another. 

Those that can't stick to an arrangement (yet) better go (at first) find a jam or such and not disrupt a fine, tight band (in the making). Your time will come, that's for sure.

Originally posted by Rich Weill  I realize that there are some banjo instrumentals that traditionally are played one particular way.

When we're doing some of my own, I feel strongly about keeping them the way I wrote them. Would that make me dependent on my own arrangements? I don't see any difference with playing someone else's material, being it tunes or songs.

Originally posted by Rich Weill  Personally, I prefer songs. If I can remember a line or two of the words, I can usually translate that song onto the banjo. Maybe not the same way I've played it before, but that's part of the fun.

I have no preference, I love singing too. But someone disrupting an arrangement is not my definition of having fun. There were times I didn't know any better either but by now, I think I've learned.

My two cents' worth...and shoot me down if you so wish. I love tab! There, I've said it. I'm a relative newbie, unfamiliar with a lot of banjo songs, with not too much time on my hands and, thanks to some good folks on YouTube, I can pick up a tune (ok, someone's version of a tune) and, in time, play something from memory. And, for the time being, I'll continue to do it this way. Some days I play better than other days, but hey ho. It's just me and my banjo, don't have the opportunity to play with others. Whether I get to the stage of learning by ear I'm not too bothered.
Regards
GS

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Originally posted by Owen

...  for me, if it's a song . . . and the words aren't shown how/where they align with the music, TAB is pretty much useless. 

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99+% of the time, the core or essemtial melody is going to be expressed on the downbeat of measures. Other notes in the same measure are likely to be eitehr passing notes getting to the next important melody note or filler/arpeggiated notes in which the banjo is providing accompaniment to the melody.

In many vocal songs, there'll be melody notes that are held over a measure. Or there will be a measure or so at the ends of lines before the melody resumes.

Of course there are exceptions. Someone's banjo arrangement of a song may have moved a melody note before or behind its literal place in order to fit a roll and to create syncopation. But that won't happen enough times to throw you off.

If you know the melody and can count measures, you should be able to figure out by sight where the core melody notes are. By "core melody" I mean the minimum number of notes needed to express a recognizable structure of the song. You don't need every syllable note of the full melody to recognize what the song is.

quote:

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Originally posted by chuckv97

A good exercise would be to find those melody notes of a song in the TAB, , it’s ear training.

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I will try this, I will also work on reading the timing of the notes on the TAB

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Originally posted by RK-FenderPartsBanjo07

quote:

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Originally posted by chuckv97

A good exercise would be to find those melody notes of a song in the TAB, , it’s ear training.

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I will try this, I will also work on reading the timing of the notes on the TAB

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To add to this

If you get real familiar with the tune/song you are attempting by tab the note values are self explanatory by association.

Good luck

E

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

quote:

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Originally posted by chuckv97

Sounds like you’re not able to read tab properly, pertaining to the timing / note duration. 

---

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

I was going to post the same thing.

I would add that in addition to being able to read the timing and note durations correctly, it helps immeasurably to know what the tab is supposed to sound like. Tabs that purport to represent a specific recorded performance are great for this. And,of course, so are playable TablEdit tabs.

PDF or printed tabs that aren't transcriptions of specific performances can be more challenging if your tab and music reading skills aren't great.

Then there's always the issue of tab quality. Did the person who wrote the tab know what they were doing?

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Does tab accurately represent "timing" and "note duration"? Only if you play your eighth notes evenly spaced. If you play with bounce/swing -- or what Scruggs called "shuffle feel" -- tab is not an accurate depiction of timing or note duration. In fact, the tabs in Earl's book will present all eighth notes as evenly spaced even when his express instructions (illustrated with a small insert of a standard notation example) are not to play them evenly, but with "shuffle feel."

Indeed, an argument can be made that tab spurred the death of the swinging banjo rhythm (which I much prefer) by misrepresenting the timing and note duration of much banjo music; that the graphic simplicity of illustrating, in tab, all eighth notes as evenly spaced perverted the way these tunes were intended to be played.