Banjophobic - Posted - 12/01/2017:  16:28:33

Good stuff folks, keep up the great posting. I'm glad most of you understand what the thread is about and that we need to keep pushing our limits to progress.

CAPT Steve - Posted - 12/01/2017:  21:28:47

Ira Gitlin posted this comment from from an interview he did with Cia Cherryholmes for Banjo Newsletter in another active topic about singing while playing:

"As with any aspect of music, the more time you put into it, the more progress you will see. People always ask, "Is it hard to play an instrument?" I always say it's hard to play one well. It takes commitment and practicing things that are actually beneficial, not just the things we feel good playing. The same goes for singing and backing yourself up at the same time. Don't give up if you don't have an easy start!"

She certainly gets it.....

When I was on active duty in the Coast Guard and we finished a significant event, we did a 'hot wash'. During this, we spent a few minutes reviewing what went well, but the majority of time on things that didn't or could use improving. This created an environment of continual improvement. I think this is another example of the reflective process of learning.

It's also at the core of Dr. Josh Turkett's Brainjo and his Laws of Brainjo that he's been publishing on the BHO e-mail newsletter each month. He says that challenging your brain by repetitively working through difficult sections as a main part of the learning process actually grows and physically changes the brain. From reading his writing, I take that reflective practice is at the very core of much learning. While we enjoy playing for many reasons, a great benefit is improved brain health and who can complain about that.

pickin_fool - Posted - 12/02/2017:  03:02:38

fwiw...what I used to do back when I played the bars, (and still do)...was take a list of our bluegrass stuff and prioritize it..obviously I am not gonna practise cripple creek over and over as it was the first song I ever learned..but a song like red haired boy would get more attention because I still falter a bit when playing it...it doesn't require a lot of brain power to know that you should concentrate more on unfamiliar tunes rather than your good old stand-bys...
having said that..there is no harm done by playing cripple creek over and over...after all there are variations on cripple creek that you can come up with...fyi Mozart wrote 12 variations of twinkle twinkle...in any event hands on practising is never a bad thing even if it is for the sole purpose of keeping your hands limber

Banjophobic - Posted - 12/04/2017:  07:46:00

Coming up with variations of tunes one already knows well is trying something new, so thats reflective in a way. Again, i never said that is is "wrong" to have practice session where we play for fun, or play something we already know over and over. it when that becomes the default practice routine that we will stall. lots of folks have no practice goals at all and do not reflect on things that need work. "Practice" becomes sitting around and just picking. While that may knock off the rust and its better than never picking your banjo up, obviously, its not going to net the growth that setting real goals and working towards them will.

Gymbal31 - Posted - 12/04/2017:  18:50:58

I think the most amazing thing about this thread is that I actually just read all nine pages!

My better, more reflective practice started in earnest this year. My work schedule changed (for the better). So time has been an important factor. In the past, it's been about keeping up due to the lack of time. I've had more time now to evaluate what I do well and what I needed to work on the most.

I went to Midwest Banjo Camp this year. I'm friends with my former teacher and he also teaches at the Camp. So going into it, I wanted to make my best effort to be prepared so as not to embarrass my friend/teacher. I made a list of songs that I wanted to feel comfortable playing at the jam sessions. It ended up being a much longer list than I had planned on but about a week out, I felt pretty good about my playing the songs on the list. Wherever possible, I made a point of working out the breaks by ear, knowing that would be helpful when the inevitable songs I didn't know came along. I think I played maybe 25% songs I knew and the rest were songs I didn't know. But I was able to find the breaks because of my practice routine going in.

Since the Camp, I was working on playing better back-up. It was limited going into Camp and I saw that weakness in the jam sessions. I was especially weak up the neck. I continued to work on new songs as well. Finally, about a month ago, I did the online subscription to the Banjo Newsletter. There I found some great up the neck exercises that I've been able to adapt for my back-up work. It was a real leap forward to my playing.

My practice time is scales and rolls with my bassline metronome, working on clean picking and tone. Of late, I next run my back-up rolls up and down the neck, increasing my speed as I go. Then I'll practice whatever new piece or pieces I've been working on. I'll probably run through a few of the more recent songs after that. Try to find something I haven't played in a while. Finally, I'll play the fun songs, the ones I know best.

I have several friends in real life that are actual working bluegrass musicians. For a long time, I wanted to play as well as them. The fact that I've been playing going on 8 years and they've been playing 15, 20 30, 45 years didn't factor into it. And I would get frustrated that I wasn't progressing very well. I realize now that I can only progress at my own pace, based on my achievements from my practice routines. Ironically, I'm progressing better now.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 12/04/2017:  19:01:05

Since this is getting real again: here is a list I made. I don't always stick with it because sometimes I hear something new and want to figure what it is. I need to be more disciplined but the new sounds are intriguing.

Edited by - From Greylock to Bean Blossom on 12/04/2017 19:01:36

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 12/04/2017:  19:03:12

sorry it came out so big, i copied my sheet.
and here is how to get sidetracked. Just got to Earls of Leicester albums and they will take some serious listening.
ken

Banjophobic - Posted - 12/05/2017:  10:03:21

I have several friends in real life that are actual working bluegrass musicians. For a long time, I wanted to play as well as them. The fact that I've been playing going on 8 years and they've been playing 15, 20 30, 45 years didn't factor into it. And I would get frustrated that I wasn't progressing very well. I realize now that I can only progress at my own pace, based on my achievements from my practice routines. Ironically, I'm progressing better now.

---

The amount of time someone has played really doesn't equate to picking ability. I've. Seen players who have played 50 years who weren't that good, and seen players who only have been at it for ten years who were great. Some of it could be attributed to natural ability. But natural ability still doesn't insulate the player for the need to practice. The difference between the 50 year player and ten year player is often the type of practicing and how much of it they've done.

we should never compare our progress to others but you'll gain valuable insights into what is effective practice and how players get great, by examining what they did along the way to get there. Once you reflect on your strengths and weaknesses and plan some practices to address the weak stuff, you really begin to make progress. 

Banjophobic - Posted - 12/05/2017:  10:04:18

quote:

---

Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom

sorry it came out so big, i copied my sheet.

and here is how to get sidetracked. Just got to Earls of Leicester albums and they will take some serious listening.

ken

---

That's a good worksheet Ken. 👍

Edited by - Banjophobic on 12/05/2017 10:04:44

kentr - Posted - 12/05/2017:  10:23:58

Hi,
Lots of words here on this thread. Many of them spoke loud and clear.

I really do hope I can add a few that might help someone , now or later.

I am living proof of what "not to do" when spending precious time "practicing" ???

Been 30 years since I switched from attempted Guitar to Banjo, and still don't
play a lot of the basic very well . Yes, there some runs, licks, and songs that I mastered
a long time ago, and still love to play.

Also, my main "goal" has been playing "with" banjos, instead of playing "on" the banjo.
And I have enjoyed all that time spent building, tinkering, and experimenting.
But now that time is spent, gone, and I can't help wondering how things might be
if I had been able to read this thread 30 years ago, and listened.

I do agree that "practicing what is not known, easy, or comfortable" , and listing out
a practice agenda will lead to better results than not.
Of course following the agenda set out might help.
I have written out "lists" many times, and then gone right ahead with noodling and
favorites.
I've been writing down key thoughts posted here. Might help if I'll listen.

So here is the one thought that might add something.

When I started to think about the things I can do, have practiced in the past, and
had experience using with other people, I started to make a list of those .

Not trying to brag, it's just that that list shows a lot of things that I "don't" need to practice.

To be honestly reflective, that's also the list used to pick practice from.

In short, Listing things I can do, helps to identify all the things I should be
working on.
bkentr

FlyinEagle - Posted - 12/05/2017:  10:47:07

quote:

---

Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom

sorry it came out so big, i copied my sheet.

and here is how to get sidetracked. Just got to Earls of Leicester albums and they will take some serious listening.

ken

---

Ken,

Which Hatfield book does your list refer to?

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 12/05/2017:  10:52:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by FlyinEagle

quote:

---

Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom

sorry it came out so big, i copied my sheet.

and here is how to get sidetracked. Just got to Earls of Leicester albums and they will take some serious listening.

ken

---

Ken,

Which Hatfield book does your list refer to?

---

HIs back up book. I am familiar with a lot of it by equally so there is a lot I don't have a good functional command of. So i need to spend time using one backup at a time over and over to get it (to try to get it) to be automatic. Easier said than done. BUT I just love the sound of my banjo so all is good.

ken

kjcole - Posted - 12/05/2017:  12:38:25

A basic tenet of motor skill learning is the notion of 'deliberate practice', which looks to be John's main point. Here's a definition of 'deliberate practice' that I've used in introductory lectures on motor learning. While we can debate the 'not inherently enjoyable' part, the central concept is one of expending effort focused on specific goals. Mere repetition is not the same as deliberate practice, and will not show equivalent rates of skill acquisition.


Ericsson, Krampe, and Tesch-Romer (1993): Deliberate Practice
“…activities that have been specifically designed to improve the current level of performance. Deliberate practice requires effort and is not inherently enjoyable. Individuals are motivated to practice because practice improves performance.”

Banjophobic - Posted - 12/05/2017:  14:01:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by kjcole

A basic tenet of motor skill learning is the notion of 'deliberate practice', which looks to be John's main point. Here's a definition of 'deliberate practice' that I've used in introductory lectures on motor learning. While we can debate the 'not inherently enjoyable' part, the central concept is one of expending effort focused on specific goals. Mere repetition is not the same as deliberate practice, and will not show equivalent rates of skill acquisition.





Ericsson, Krampe, and Tesch-Romer (1993): Deliberate Practice

“…activities that have been specifically designed to improve the current level of performance. Deliberate practice requires effort and is not inherently enjoyable. Individuals are motivated to practice because practice improves performance.”

---

Im glad some of you guys get it,hahaha

Brian T - Posted - 12/05/2017:  14:15:34

When I got to the age where I really wanted to do my best to pick, I bought the Scruggs book.
Turned out that it suited the way my head works. I did tackle the hardest parts.
Made a promise to myself that I was not allowed to turn the page until I really "got it."
That worked. I really had to study to figure it out. Not a chore nor a bore, either.

Later, I allowed myself the fun of ripping through a few tunes as well.

What surprised me most of all was that I realized that I could be objective and listen to my playing.
Not even "almost" guitar was lke that.

Tom Hanway - Posted - 12/05/2017:  21:33:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjophobic

Coming up with variations of tunes one already knows well is trying something new, so thats reflective in a way. Again, i never said that is is "wrong" to have practice session where we play for fun, or play something we already know over and over. it when that becomes the default practice routine that we will stall. lots of folks have no practice goals at all and do not reflect on things that need work. "Practice" becomes sitting around and just picking. While that may knock off the rust and its better than never picking your banjo up, obviously, its not going to net the growth that setting real goals and working towards them will.

---

Composing breaks for songs—something Tony Trischka taught me—is a good way to practice that doesn't feel like practicing. I play in bluegrass and non-bluegrass contexts, and it's in the jazz (still very limited) and Irish-tune-playing context that I've had to be honest about my playing weaknesses and attempt to raise the bar. 

For Irish and Celtic tunes, one cannot fall back on Scruggs licks; instead, one must first work up melodies, note for note, then devise and be in command of variations in a very small musical space. It's about playing (a) the melody, and (b) embellishing it in subtle ways. It's not just picking fiddle tunes; it's picking tunes that came from a lot of different instruments: the bagpipe, uilleann pipes, fiddle, whistle, flute, accordion, tenor banjo, and the like. With all these choices, one is constantly making goals and building techniques in both the fretting and picking hands. (I don't even use the term "right hand" any more, though I worked hard for years to have a good "Southern" right hand for bluegrass.)

When I'm playing Scottish, Welsh, Irish, or Shetland tunes, it's not Scruggs, though it benefits from Scruggs training (both hands); it's not "melodic" bluegrass banjo, though it incorporates it; it's not single-string, though it relies upon it at times, especially for jigs and reels; and it's not OT, classic, or classical, though it can be informed by techniques from all these great traditions.

So, I divide up my practice time into learning new tunes in different traditions.  I try to focus on one tradition at a time, for days on end, so I can remember what I've worked up from day to day. It's better to do it this way—I'm almost finished with a 9-part version of 'The Mason's Apron'—and it being such a monster to transcribe, I couldn't change the tuning of the banjo and start playing 'Reuben' in the middle of it.  (That was last Thursday and Friday, and I worked up descending-melodic Lydian mode passages for it.)  

Sometimes I'm musically schizophrenic, and while that might be fun in a live-playing context, it's really not a good way to practice.

Sometimes being reflective simply means "playing in context"—avoiding "hot licks" and the "kitchen sink"—and working up tight breaks or variations for a tune.

"There's a lot ... to pickin' a banjo!" - Danny Barnes

All the best ~ Tom

Edited by - Tom Hanway on 12/05/2017 21:48:54

Banjophobic - Posted - 12/06/2017:  07:36:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Hanway

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjophobic

Coming up with variations of tunes one already knows well is trying something new, so thats reflective in a way. Again, i never said that is is "wrong" to have practice session where we play for fun, or play something we already know over and over. it when that becomes the default practice routine that we will stall. lots of folks have no practice goals at all and do not reflect on things that need work. "Practice" becomes sitting around and just picking. While that may knock off the rust and its better than never picking your banjo up, obviously, its not going to net the growth that setting real goals and working towards them will.

---

Composing breaks for songs—something Tony Trischka taught me—is a good way to practice that doesn't feel like practicing. I play in bluegrass and non-bluegrass contexts, and it's in the jazz (still very limited) and Irish-tune-playing context that I've had to be honest about my playing weaknesses and attempt to raise the bar. 

For Irish and Celtic tunes, one cannot fall back on Scruggs licks; instead, one must first work up melodies, note for note, then devise and be in command of variations in a very small musical space. It's about playing (a) the melody, and (b) embellishing it in subtle ways. It's not just picking fiddle tunes; it's picking tunes that came from a lot of different instruments: the bagpipe, uilleann pipes, fiddle, whistle, flute, accordion, tenor banjo, and the like. With all these choices, one is constantly making goals and building techniques in both the fretting and picking hands. (I don't even use the term "right hand" any more, though I worked hard for years to have a good "Southern" right hand for bluegrass.)

When I'm playing Scottish, Welsh, Irish, or Shetland tunes, it's not Scruggs, though it benefits from Scruggs training (both hands); it's not "melodic" bluegrass banjo, though it incorporates it; it's not single-string, though it relies upon it at times, especially for jigs and reels; and it's not OT, classic, or classical, though it can be informed by techniques from all these great traditions.

So, I divide up my practice time into learning new tunes in different traditions.  I try to focus on one tradition at a time, for days on end, so I can remember what I've worked up from day to day. It's better to do it this way—I'm almost finished with a 9-part version of 'The Mason's Apron'—and it being such a monster to transcribe, I couldn't change the tuning of the banjo and start playing 'Reuben' in the middle of it.  (That was last Thursday and Friday, and I worked up descending-melodic Lydian mode passages for it.)  

Sometimes I'm musically schizophrenic, and while that might be fun in a live-playing context, it's really not a good way to practice.

Sometimes being reflective simply means "playing in context"—avoiding "hot licks" and the "kitchen sink"—and working up tight breaks or variations for a tune.

"There's a lot ... to pickin' a banjo!" - Danny Barnes

All the best ~ Tom

---

Good  stuff Tom and thanks for the contribution to the thread. Players who play in lots of styles and genres Seem to generally get reflective practice, maybe because you have to be. Now I'm ready to hear that swingy Scruggs version of Masons Apron...hahaha.

Tom Hanway - Posted - 12/06/2017:  17:52:33

Very good, John, talk about cognitive dissonance ... you hit the nail on the head, as per usual. Bwahahahaha!

Rawhide Creek - Posted - 12/07/2017:  09:28:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by kjcole

A basic tenet of motor skill learning is the notion of 'deliberate practice', which looks to be John's main point. Here's a definition of 'deliberate practice' that I've used in introductory lectures on motor learning. While we can debate the 'not inherently enjoyable' part, the central concept is one of expending effort focused on specific goals. Mere repetition is not the same as deliberate practice, and will not show equivalent rates of skill acquisition.





Ericsson, Krampe, and Tesch-Romer (1993): Deliberate Practice

“…activities that have been specifically designed to improve the current level of performance. Deliberate practice requires effort and is not inherently enjoyable. Individuals are motivated to practice because practice improves performance.”

---

I’m impressed to see the phrase “motor skill learning” instead of the trite (and technically incorrect) “muscle memory”.  Kudos, Kelly!

Edited by - Rawhide Creek on 12/07/2017 09:29:13

Banjophobic - Posted - 12/07/2017:  10:36:18

I like to think of it as 'neuron conditioning'.

Edited by - Banjophobic on 12/07/2017 10:37:04

kjcole - Posted - 12/07/2017:  12:38:32

Yeah, I get that the term 'muscle memory' is commonly used among athletes, coaches, dancers, musicians, etc. I don't know where it originated but we all know that muscles are just motors, and the memory/control part comes from the central nervous system. I just grin and bear it.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 12/07/2017:  20:11:38

mus·cle mem·o·ry

noun

noun: muscle memory



the ability to reproduce a particular movement without conscious thought, acquired as a result of frequent repetition of that movement.

"typing relies heavily on muscle memory"

While the people that used to be called phys ed majors and now call themselves kinesiologists may not like this term and this definition.. this term and  definition are much more user friendly and applicable when teaching skills or as some may call them "motor movements".

Get er done boys.

ken

Edited by - From Greylock to Bean Blossom on 12/07/2017 20:16:39

Boadicea - Posted - 12/08/2017:  18:54:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjophobic

 the most important part of practice is to  identify and see things you aren't doing well or don't quite grasp fully.

To which I replied " Ok, if you don't practice the backwards roll and only play forwards how do you propose to get better at it?" That probably sounds so obvious to be silly to put on a posting here but it happens more than you think. If you really take stock of your skill set, you can map out a practice routine that focuses on getting better at those things you KNOW you are weakest in.

This isn't to say that all practice time should be so focused and regimented, but it is called 'practice' for a reason and the reason isn't to keep doing things you are 'good' at already and to feel all warm and fuzzy about it. One obstacle that we all face is being complacent with our playing and skill set. practices can be more effective if you make it that way by really being honest about your weaknesses and then setting aside time to focus on that.

I am so new that I really don't know anything that well, or so I thought, until I got a split in my pointer finger of my chord hand. I have a few songs that I know off tab, and that is so terribly exciting for me. My banjo teacher had been talking to me about practising my strumming and my rolls, to the point of practising half my rolls so I can put them into my tool box for later improvisation. So now my nail is split I am practising more and more my strumming and my rolls, and doing a whole minute on a roll or two minutes on a roll or five minutes on strumming is really hard for me. So before I would do a few rolls and not sure really how to practise those I would either slide off to play around with my known songs or learn more of another or practising my improvisations - I have a couple of scaffolds that I fool around with 

| G | Em | C | D7 | I love playing this one. I can do the chord changes quicker on this one. I can make up my own songs with these chords. I can do a small amount of improvisation. 

12 bar chord progression | G | % | % | % | C | % | G | % | D7 | % | G | % | (using combinations of all my five rolls) (I can play without the tab)

My finger nail is cracked in two places on my left hand. This happened last Tuesday. This is my chord playing hand. I have been putting layers of a matt nail polish on it to stop cracking it more. So the first crack/wound is on the left hand side going along and under the nail. That won't take too long to grow out. The second crack goes across the nail, almost two thirds of the way across. I can't play chords without cracking the nail more. It is mid nail so it will take some time to grow out. Superglue wasn't enough so I moved on to matt nail polish, the next day. 

So below is one of my practising lists - despite having rolls first I didn't so them much because I was unclear on how to practise them.

Potential practising/playing that I could do today. I won’t do them all each day (but I can reorder them each day to have the most needed to be played at number one position), but having a list will jog my memory of what needs to be noodled and played around with.

1. 5 x X (X = number of minutes) on one or all of my 5 rolls, later I will build up for longer times. (2 x Mixed rolls, Backward Forward Roll, 2 x Forward rolls)

2. Goodnight Ladies (I can play without the tab)

3. Blackberry Blossum Part A + Part B (I can play Part A with the tab, Part B is close to playing without the tab)

4. 12 bar chord progression | G | % | % | % |  C | % | G | % | D7 | % | G | % | (using combinations of all my five rolls) (I can play without the tab)

5. | G | Em | C | D7 | I love playing this one. I can do the chord changes quicker on this one. I want to learn this one off by heart.

6. Major Scale G Melodic (I haven't learnt this one yet - still using tab)

7. G Major Scale (I can play without the tab)

8. Playing the backup chords for my pieces - I really want to do this, because I can really see the value in doing them - the ability to jam with other musicians, which I am a long way off doing, but it is a goal.

9.  Really simple Cripple Creek Part A + Part B (In Part A I need to drill the first two bars, and in Part B I can play it off by heart.)

10. "Insert title here at some point" piece Part A + Part B (I can mostly play them off by heart but sometimes I confuse it with another piece.)

11. Worried Man Blues (listening to different versions and also reading about the song)

12. I had better do one of the tunes in the book I last showed my banjo teacher as he said I could play all those tunes in that book - I want to show him I did at least one, this week.

13. General noodling. Noodling laying down on the ground with my resonator on my belly feels really good.

14. Strum practising

15. Alexander Technique

16. Mindfulness with my banjo.

17. Walking with my banjo

18. Breathing with my banjo

Here is an outline of my current practising after I hurt my fingernail. I can't do any chords that require my left hand pointer finger.

 1. 12 minute semi supine/constructive rest guided audio

 2. Strum practising – four variations

 3. 5 x 1 (X = number of minutes) on one or all of my 5 rolls, later I will build up for longer times. (3 x Mixed rolls, 1x Backward Forward Roll, 2 x Forward rolls). Currently for me 1 minute of playing a roll is a long time. Sometimes I try two minutes. I go slow, fast, loud and soft. That is big for me at the moment.

 4. Playing the backup chords for my pieces (I really want to do this, because I can really see the value in doing them - the ability to jam with other musicians, my teacher went over this yesterday and I understand this a bit better.

 5. 12 bar chord progression | G | % | % | % | C | % | G | % | D7 | % | G | % | (using combinations of all my five rolls) (I can play without the tab)

 6. | G | Em | C | D7 | I love playing this one. I can do the chord changes quicker on this one. I can make up my own songs with these chords. I can do a small amount of improvisiation.

 7. Major Scale G Melodic (even with the tab it is hard)

 8. Open G to C chord practising. I am still not smooth with this transition

 9. A really simple Cripple Creek Part A + Part B (In Part A I need to drill the first two bars, and in Part B I can play it off by heart.)

 10. Goodnight Ladies (I can play without the tab)

 11. Blackberry Blossum Part A + Part B (I can play without the tab)

 12. G Major Scale (I can play without the tab)

 13. "Insert title here at some point" piece Part A + Part B (I can mostly play them off by heart but sometimes I confuse it with another piece.)

 16. General noodling.

So I thought I was practising the hardest thing for myself but I wasn't, so I needed more awareness.

So these are my revised lists, breaking it down a whole lot more. I am going to get really good with my strumming and my rolls! So I am not focussing on my split nail, but what it frees me up to do. And I really needed to do this anyway so it is all for the best. 

Practising Session 1

This morning I did some strumming practising for 5 minutes.  5 minutes is a long time for me at the moment. I did faster, slower, louder, softer. I moved up and down over the banjo head, just for something new to do.

Then 2 minutes on Rolls

1. Forward Roll starting on 3rd string G

2. Mixed Roll starting on starting on 3rd string G. I also did a mixed roll starting on 3rd string open G with a slide as well.

3. Forward Roll starting on second string B

4. More strumming for another 2 minutes, fast and faster

5. Forward Backward Roll starting on 3rd string G

5. Mixed Roll starting on 4th string D

6. Mixed Roll Starting on 4th string D with slide 4>5 fret

7. Forward Roll starting on 3rd string Open G

8. Mixed Roll starting on 3rd string G for 1+2+ Mixed Roll starting on D 3+4+

I am actually such a new player that a two minute of any one roll is a long time for me. 

dandbpublishing.com/perch/reso...apt-1.mp3 (12 minutes before and after)

I am going to get really good with my strumming and my rolls! And I really needed to do that anyway so it is all for the best. 

Practising Session 2

I did another strumming for 5 minutes. 5 minutes is a long time for me at the moment. I did faster, slower, louder, softer. I moved up and down over the banjo head, just for something new to do. I had a break after doing this, so I didn't tighten up in my body. Options for strumming include: faster, slower, louder, softer.

Then 1 minute on  each roll

Mixed Roll starting on 4th string D

Mixed Roll Starting on 4th string D (with slide 4>5 fret)

More strumming for another 1 minute, loud & fast and faster

Forward Roll starting on 2nd string B. 

More strumming for another 1 minute, soft & fast and faster

More strumming for another 1 minutes loud & slow and slower

Forward Roll starting on 3rd string G

More strumming for another 1 minutes soft & slow and slower

More strumming for another 1 minutes

Forward Backward Roll starting on 3rd string G

More strumming for another 1 minutes

Mixed Roll starting on starting on 3rd string G.

Mixed roll starting on 3rd string open G with a slide as well.

Mixed Roll starting on 3rd string G for 1+2+ Mixed Roll starting on 4th string D 3+4+

I am actually such a new player that a two minute of any one roll is a long time for me. So now my practising is actually drilling me in skills that will enable me to improvise, jam, back up and potentially be a busker.

So I guess one of my challenges is that I don't know what I don't know. So I am trying to learn who to practise in a meaningful way for myself. Any suggestions are welcome.

Edited by - Boadicea on 12/08/2017 19:01:03

kjcole - Posted - 12/08/2017:  21:16:21

Actually phys ed people and many ‘kinesiologists’ seem to use the term ‘muscle memory’ and that’s fine since we all know what they mean. I agree it is a convenient, colloquial term and outside of the statements I’ve made here I’m not on a semantic crusade (but substitute motor memory for muscle memory and you convey the same meaning, so why not?). I don’t think I’ve ever heard another neuroscientist use the term because mechanistically it makes no sense.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 12/09/2017:  04:49:39

Kelly, the only reason I like muscle memory over motor memory is because that is what the average guy on the street sees and is what they are going for - what the muscle does. So for the folks under initiated in the lingo of the trade, it gives them a more relatable and better working term. But with your work, I can see the need to be more precise.
Hope you are enjoying the mountains of Boone.
ken

banjerman - Posted - 12/09/2017:  07:35:40

quote:

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Originally posted by Banjophobic

I like to think of it as 'neuron conditioning'.

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Have we all forgotten the true answer available from me AND me alone???? Hmmm??? Earl pills for perfect timing and JD creme for bow'in up that right hand for drive. All for the ridiculous price of $29.95!!! Cmon people we solved this 5 yrs ago.

Banjophobic - Posted - 12/09/2017:  08:46:18

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjerman

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjophobic

I like to think of it as 'neuron conditioning'.

---

Have we all forgotten the true answer available from me AND me alone???? Hmmm??? Earl pills for perfect timing and JD creme for bow'in up that right hand for drive. All for the ridiculous price of $29.95!!! Cmon people we solved this 5 yrs ago.

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Dang, you mean those pills and creme is still available? I thought for sure that some big pharma had bought you out to silence it Wally. Then one day years later One of them would come out with it by prescription only. I think I heard that Lilly or Merc has it and Erie going to sell it under the trade name "Earlvestracrowe"......

kjcole - Posted - 12/11/2017:  06:08:54

quote:

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Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom

Kelly, the only reason I like muscle memory over motor memory is because that is what the average guy on the street sees and is what they are going for - what the muscle does. So for the folks under initiated in the lingo of the trade, it gives them a more relatable and better working term. But with your work, I can see the need to be more precise.

Hope you are enjoying the mountains of Boone.

ken

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I'm good with that - the nervous system machinery isn't on our minds when we move and practice (how ironic!).  But I won't budge when sports announcers talk about an athlete's 'superior reflexes.'  Loving Boone/Deep Gap and the Blue Ridge in general.  App State is a change from the big research universities I'm use to, but it is a solid school and I have a great department here.  Still looking for more people to play music with (my own fault since they are all around me!!)