BDCA - Posted - 05/09/2013:  13:22:32

I was at an OT jam last night in Salem MA. I just got back into OT music and my recently acquired open back banjo is home in Tucson. I am traveling with a tenor banjo and guitar so bringing the 5 string was out of the question. A woman showed up with a Bart Reiter and I thought I'd have a chance to play a couple of tunes I have resurrected from the old days.

I chatted with this person a while and asked if I could borrow here banjo for a tune later. She replied that she is very careful with her banjos. I agreed that was good to be careful. She spent the next ten minutes trying to tune it.When my turn came to call the tune, I turned around to ask about borrowing the banjo and she said it had a broken 5th string. Then she asked me if I knew how to change the strings on a banjo. I said sure, and within a couple of minutes, the new 5th was replaced and tuned up. I then tried to play it and she said thank you and grabbed the banjo out of my hands. When my turn came around again I turned and asked if I could borrow here banjo for a tune and she refused much to the surprise of all the other musicians. Let me rephrase that, much to the surprise of the musicians.

Later she mentioned she has owned the banjo and has been taking lessons for 5 years!? WTF? Didn't know how to tune the banjo or change a string?

Strangest encounter at a jam to date! Well there was the crazy woman with the cello and the one stringed Chinese violin, but that's another story.

Cya!

Bob

captbanjo - Posted - 05/09/2013:  13:29:44

I don't often use LOL. But when I do, I use if for stories like these.

Wayne

quote:

---

Originally posted by BDCA

 

I was at an OT jam last night in Salem MA. I just got back into OT music and my recently acquired open back banjo is home in Tucson. I am traveling with a tenor banjo and guitar so bringing the 5 string was out of the question. A woman showed up with a Bart Reiter and I thought I'd have a chance to play a couple of tunes I have resurrected from the old days.

I chatted with this person a while and asked if I could borrow here banjo for a tune later. She replied that she is very careful with her banjos. I agreed that was good to be careful. She spent the next ten minutes trying to tune it.When my turn came to call the tune, I turned around to ask about borrowing the banjo and she said it had a broken 5th string. Then she asked me if I knew how to change the strings on a banjo. I said sure, and within a couple of minutes, the new 5th was replaced and tuned up. I then tried to play it and she said thank you and grabbed the banjo out of my hands. When my turn came around again I turned and asked if I could borrow here banjo for a tune and she refused much to the surprise of all the other musicians. Let me rephrase that, much to the surprise of the musicians.

Later she mentioned she has owned the banjo and has been taking lessons for 5 years!? WTF? Didn't know how to tune the banjo or change a string?

Strangest encounter at a jam to date! Well there was the crazy woman with the cello and the one stringed Chinese violin, but that's another story.

 

Cya!

Bob

 

---

Noah Cline - Posted - 05/09/2013:  13:30:30

 Um, that, was a little weird. Maybe a little bipolar  I've been playing for that long, and I definitely know how to tune a banjo and change the strings.

Paul R - Posted - 05/09/2013:  13:47:18

Not what you'd call a quid pro quo, eh? You never know what kinds of people you'll have to deal with.

Geez, I let people try the 1929 Martin and the 1910 Orpheum. Instruments are made to be played. Is she a BHO member? 

BDCA - Posted - 05/09/2013:  14:03:49

I don't know if she is a member or not. If she can't change a string after 5 years of lessons, she probably can't turn on a computer.

I always enjoy it when other folks play my instruments. One never gets to hear what they really sound like. If I remember, she may have mentioned taking lessons in Burlington, MA.

Cya!

Bob

Crimjo - Posted - 05/09/2013:  14:21:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by BDCA

 

I don't know if she is a member or not. If she can't change a string after 5 years of lessons, she probably can't turn on a computer.

 

---

hahahahahahahahahaha :D

richla - Posted - 05/09/2013:  14:27:01

Interesting story.
Did she play it herself?
Is she is a "regular" in the group?
It's strange she didn't want to let you play it, but she let you change the string.
Did she seem really uptight?
At least she showed up with a nice banjo.

I can picture a person being uptight, possessive, protective, etc., of an instrument. I can get that. But if that was me, I would not have let you touch it to string it, either.
(I might be giving this too much thought, but the scenario you described is interesting)

BDCA - Posted - 05/09/2013:  14:35:07

She tuned it by placing the pot on the floor and looking down at the tuner. This was her first time at this jam, which has been around for a couple of years but has been very local but is increasing in scope. She didn't seem uptight at first but then maybe her meds hadn't worn off at that stage.

Cya!

Bob

banjo bill-e - Posted - 05/09/2013:  14:38:55

The world is full of weirdos. Some of them play banjo!

Bill 

maryzcox - Posted - 05/09/2013:  14:50:27

Why did you try to borrow a banjo from this person? If all the other musicians thought somebody should loan you a banjo--why didn't you just ask one of them if you could play his/her banjo?

Its usually not a good idea to ask someone if you can take over their banjo if you are a stranger to them.  Things would probably go better if you announced to the jammers that you would like to borrow a banjo for a few tunes and let someone volunteer his/her instrument. 

mrphysics55 - Posted - 05/09/2013:  14:51:00

Snicker ....

cliff midcap - Posted - 05/09/2013:  14:59:20

Thats funny but weird. I agree with you about having someone else play mine to show me what is possible with more practice but im a newbie. So lol and on with the show.

BDCA - Posted - 05/09/2013:  15:00:17

quote:

---

Originally posted by maryzcox

 

Why did you try to borrow a banjo from this person? If all the other musicians thought somebody should loan you a banjo--why didn't you just ask one of them if you could play his/her banjo?

Its usually not a good idea to ask someone if you can take over their banjo if you are a stranger to them.  Things would probably go better if you announced to the jammers that you would like to borrow a banjo for a few tunes and let someone volunteer his/her instrument. 

 

---

I did ask the leader if shenew someone who had an extra banjo or could lend me one for a couple of tunes, but this was the only banjo in the jam or I most certainly would have asked someone else.This is North  Boston, not Chapel Hill! One of the few Old Time jams I've been to where you can get an excellent pint of Guinness, but banjos...not so much.

Nick: Sometimes you just have to stir the pot a little!  Ever been to the jam at the Henderson Library?

Maybe we need universal background checks before you can purchase a banjo?

Cya!

Bob

Edited by - BDCA on 05/09/2013 15:05:52

Nick Danger - Posted - 05/09/2013:  15:00:18

If it were me, and if that woman was hesitant about letting me borrow her banjo for whatever reason, I would've dropped it right then and there (the request to borrow, not the banjo).

Dave1climber - Posted - 05/09/2013:  15:04:13

Very strange, almost as bad as the guy that was hot to try my home built banjo, and then proceeded to tell me every thing that HE would have done differently in a condensing manner.

J-Walk - Posted - 05/09/2013:  16:33:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by BDCA

I always enjoy it when other folks play my instruments. One never gets to hear what they really sound like. 

 

Exactly! That's very strange. 

mbuk06 - Posted - 05/09/2013:  16:51:10

I guess it takes all types. But I wouldn't dwell on it. We never know a stranger's back story or what's going on with them. It's a jam and no-one got hurt

David McLaughlin - Posted - 05/09/2013:  17:34:22

I let very few people touch my instruments until I observe how they treat instruments. I will let others try my instruments if I see that they are gentle players and not thrashers, string-snappers, string-yankers, flailers, head-rappers, or floggers (most banjo players). I never let ANYBODY else change my strings.

BDCA - Posted - 05/09/2013:  18:01:49

quote:

---

Originally posted by David McLaughlin

 

I let very few people touch my instruments until I observe how they treat instruments. I will let others try my instruments if I see that they are gentle players and not thrashers, string-snappers, string-yankers, flailers, head-rappers, or floggers (most banjo players). I never let ANYBODY else change my strings.

---

I agree that you want to make sure that the person isn't an idiot, , but I had already told this woman that I am a professional musician, started playing claw hammer in the 60s, and am in Boston for gigs. and as J-Walk can attest, I am a reasonably capable OT guitar player, though a bit rusty.  I was well known to the locals as I also ran a well attended Irish session in Salem for a number of years.

Cya!

Bob

pernicketylad - Posted - 05/09/2013:  18:26:51

Taken as a whole I can see how it seemed strange but, while I wasn't there, if you break it down I can understand how a nervous beginner who's "careful with her banjo" might react in such a way. I actually sympathise a little. When she said she was "careful" I think she was laying her stall out. At that point I'd drop the issue.
I would not like handing over my banjo to a stranger either and I have some friends I'd think twice about! I've had a friend of mine get carried away and scuff the finish on my 1916 Gibson A4 mandolin. I'd always really try to reassure anyone who let me borrow their banjo that I'd be careful....even my friends who know how careful I am. How does this girl know you're not some reckless idiot with a big belt buckle and no common sense.
As for the whole string thing I wouldn't be too hard on her. The broken string probably flustered her. We've all been there at some stage. Five years might seem like a long time but when you're nervous and feel under pressure it could all be a little overwhelming. Mind you she could probably have asked someone else given the whole "can I borrow your banjo" debacle!

Different scenario but I remember years ago I went for a toilet break during a session and when I returned some muppet was playing my guitar with gusto. He put it down after his song and never even bothered to tune it back down to the tuning it was in. All the musicians were disgusted and one of them apologised for not intervening while I was gone.

I must admit I once picked up a mandolin without permission at a festival campsite just for gentle strum. There was no session going on at the time. The lady who owned it was a little put out when she decked it. I could tell from the body language. Again, I knew I was no idiot but she didn't. I felt bad afterwards as I knew it would bother me if the shoe was on the other foot. I ended out having a few lovely tunes with her and her brother.

David McLaughlin - Posted - 05/09/2013:  18:30:51

Yes, Bob. Even if you had not demonstrated that you know how to handle a banjo, I do find the scenario very odd..." Excuse me sir. Do you know how to carefully handle these precious items? Would you please change my string since I can't do it. But what ever you do, don't play it."

Edited by - David McLaughlin on 05/09/2013 18:40:17

David McLaughlin - Posted - 05/09/2013:  18:38:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by pernicketylad

 

Taken as a whole I can see how it seemed strange but, while I wasn't there, if you break it down I can understand how a nervous beginner who's "careful with her banjo" might react in such a way. I actually sympathise a little. When she said she was "careful" I think she was laying her stall out. At that point I'd drop the issue.

I would not like handing over my banjo to a stranger either and I have some friends I'd think twice about! I've had a friend of mine get carried away and scuff the finish on my 1916 Gibson A4 mandolin. I'd always really try to reassure anyone who let me borrow their banjo that I'd be careful....even my friends who know how careful I am. How does this girl know you're not some reckless idiot with a big belt buckle and no common sense.

As for the whole string thing I wouldn't be too hard on her. The broken string probably flustered her. We've all been there at some stage. Five years might seem like a long time but when you're nervous and feel under pressure it could all be a little overwhelming. Mind you she could probably have asked someone else given the whole "can I borrow your banjo" debacle!



Different scenario but I remember years ago I went for a toilet break during a session and when I returned some muppet was playing my guitar with gusto. He put it down after his song and never even bothered to tune it back down to the tuning it was in. All the musicians were disgusted and one of them apologised for not intervening while I was gone.



I must admit I once picked up a mandolin without permission at a festival campsite just for gentle strum. There was no session going on at the time. The lady who owned it was a little put out when she decked it. I could tell from the body language. Again, I knew I was no idiot but she didn't. I felt bad afterwards as I knew it would bother me if the shoe was on the other foot. I ended out having a few lovely tunes with her and her brother.

---

I believe the point that Bob is making is that she WAS comfortable with him handling the banjo to the point of having him perform the very intimate procedure of changing a string, yet she wouldn't trust him to play a tune on it with equal care. Changing strings could be a riskier thing to allow a stranger to do than playing a tune on it. I'd certainly let some one play a tune on my banjo before letting them change a string.

BDCA - Posted - 05/09/2013:  18:40:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by pernicketylad

 

Taken as a whole I can see how it seemed strange but, while I wasn't there, if you break it down I can understand how a nervous beginner who's "careful with her banjo" might react in such a way. I actually sympathise a little. When she said she was "careful" I think she was laying her stall out. At that point I'd drop the issue.

I would not like handing over my banjo to a stranger either and I have some friends I'd think twice about! I've had a friend of mine get carried away and scuff the finish on my 1916 Gibson A4 mandolin. I'd always really try to reassure anyone who let me borrow their banjo that I'd be careful....even my friends who know how careful I am. How does this girl know you're not some reckless idiot with a big belt buckle and no common sense.

As for the whole string thing I wouldn't be too hard on her. The broken string probably flustered her. We've all been there at some stage. Five years might seem like a long time but when you're nervous and feel under pressure it could all be a little overwhelming. Mind you she could probably have asked someone else given the whole "can I borrow your banjo" debacle!



Different scenario but I remember years ago I went for a toilet break during a session and when I returned some muppet was playing my guitar with gusto. He put it down after his song and never even bothered to tune it back down to the tuning it was in. All the musicians were disgusted and one of them apologised for not intervening while I was gone.



I must admit I once picked up a mandolin without permission at a festival campsite just for gentle strum. There was no session going on at the time. The lady who owned it was a little put out when she decked it. I could tell from the body language. Again, I knew I was no idiot but she didn't. I felt bad afterwards as I knew it would bother me if the shoe was on the other foot. I ended out having a few lovely tunes with her and her brother.

---

I WAS wearing my Ceol agus Craic! T-Shirt! That may have put the fear of God in her!

Slainte!

Bob

Edited by - BDCA on 05/09/2013 18:44:26

J-Walk - Posted - 05/09/2013:  18:45:45

Next time, wear that hat.

BDCA - Posted - 05/09/2013:  18:53:44

You are a sick man John! 

BTW when is the next OT event??

Cya!

Bob

David McLaughlin - Posted - 05/09/2013:  19:21:42

OT in Tucson? Makes me want to go visit my brother, Peter.

David McLaughlin - Posted - 05/09/2013:  19:22:35

When I do visit Tucson, I may...just MAY let you change my string.

Edited by - David McLaughlin on 05/09/2013 19:23:00

BDCA - Posted - 05/09/2013:  19:32:59

When you visit Tucson J-Walk runs a great OT session and you would be more than welcome to stay at my place.

Cya!

Bob

former Vienna and Roanoke resident

J-Walk - Posted - 05/09/2013:  20:06:13

The Tucson OT jams really slow down in the summer when the temperatures rise and  the snowbirds pack up and go back to where they go.

But we always have a jam on the first Friday of every month. The Tucson Old Time Music Circle was started by banjo_brad back in 2007. It corresponded perfectly with my intro to OT time music. The venue has changed, and (somehow) I'm now the main guy. At least I'm the guy responsible for sending out the email reminders. But credit for this great jam really goes to Brad (who's also known as Fred). 

It's a friendly and very informal group, and newbies are always welcome. We play at a retirement center, and sometimes as many as 6-8 people sit around and listen. And, as far as I can tell, nobody minds if you ask to play their instruments.

More info: totmc.pricklypearmusic.net/

Edited by - J-Walk on 05/09/2013 20:06:58

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/09/2013:  20:19:55

quote:

---

Originally posted by BDCA

 

I was at an OT jam last night...

I chatted with this person a while and asked if I could borrow her banjo for a tune later.

-Bob

 

---

Seriously, Bob?

You were at an Old-Time jam, talking to a banjo-player and you were expecting something other than bizarre behavior ?!?!?  

Edited by - R.D. Lunceford on 05/09/2013 20:21:01

Playin the radio - Posted - 05/09/2013:  21:26:54

The first lesson in my ski lessons a zillion years ago was fall down and learn to get up. The justification was that was part of skiing and now was good time to learn it. I sometimes wonder if the same needs to be applied to learning string band players.

howseth - Posted - 05/09/2013:  21:39:19

Salem Massachusetts. Hmmm! That's Nathaniel Hawthorne country. Author of "The Scarlet Letter". He planned a sequel, which he abandoned; it was to feature strange young woman - and the letter B. What could that B have stood for? After all, he later wrote "The House of the Seven Banjos" Or was that another author?

Paul R - Posted - 05/09/2013:  22:38:16

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjo bill-e

 

The world is full of weirdos. Some of them play banjo!

Bill 

---

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH!!??    

pernicketylad - Posted - 05/10/2013:  01:16:10

quote:

I WAS wearing my Ceol agus Craic! T-Shirt! That may have put the fear of God in her!

---

You were lucky to escape with your life Bob.

bublnsqueak - Posted - 05/10/2013:  02:26:37

I have a friend who has been CH ing for a few years now. The advice I constantly hear is to "get out and play with others."



This is not always easy as I am a bit nervous and work, life etc often either means I can't get to a jam or am in no mood to put myself in a position where I am uncomfortable. Each time I do manage it though I gain something from it. There is no doubt in my mind that the weakness in my playing is around fitting in to a group. The longer it goes on the worse it gets. I have spent a lot of time learning tab and have done masses of 'noodling.'



However, to be honest I keep putting it off. I know many others in the same position and they are rarely keen to get together.



This woman seems to have spent 5 years trying to understand how to play the music she loves without any progress (that is a very long time). Like many she has kidded herself that some of it sounds quite good. Once she plays with others her delusion is exposed, she feels inadequate and anxious. that is where the abruptness and rigidity comes from.



Probably very competent in some other aspect of her life and finds it hard to ask for advice.

Did some prison work once and I reckon 99% of aggressive acts are defensive when seen from the perspective of the aggressor.

So I reckon she needs some very sensitive support to get to a position where she can learn to take part in a jam. Whether you care enough is your call.

I only mention this because it is very common - lots of people hiding their lights under bushels.

Paul

PS: I'm sure my friend will sort it out eventually - maybe at the next jam.....  or the one after that.

BDCA - Posted - 05/10/2013:  03:56:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by howseth

 

Salem Massachusetts. Hmmm! That's Nathaniel Hawthorne country. Author of "The Scarlet Letter". He planned a sequel, which he abandoned; it was to feature strange young woman - and the letter B. What could that B have stood for? After all, he later wrote "The House of the Seven Banjos" Or was that another author?

---

Ironically the jam was a 5 minute walk from The House of 7 Gables.BTW Howie, I used to play  mandolin in The Santa Cruz Mountain Boys. We did a lot of Winery Gigs...

Cya!

Bob

chip arnold - Posted - 05/10/2013:  06:09:05

Actually, there are a lot of really good OT banjo pickers in the Boston area as well as OT fiddlers, etc. 



The jam you went to has a mailing list and this morning I recieved a "jam etiquette"  email from them. Your plight and that of the banjo owner was not unnoticed. 

jojo25 - Posted - 05/10/2013:  06:33:51

Bob...I am quite confident that you are a good guy...but...but...asking to borrow someone's instrument is a touchy thing...IMHO you should have let it go at the first "no"...played the instruments you brought and left it at that...I suggest that you return to that session with  your 5-string...and...assuming that lady shows up again...offer to let her try YOUR banjo...smile and move on

BDCA - Posted - 05/10/2013:  06:46:26

quote:

---

Originally posted by jojo25

 

Bob...I am quite confident that you are a good guy...but...but...asking to borrow someone's instrument is a touchy thing...IMHO you should have let it go at the first "no"...played the instruments you brought and left it at that...I suggest that you return to that session with  your 5-string...and...assuming that lady shows up again...offer to let her try YOUR banjo...smile and move on

---

Hey, I am not claiming to be politically correct and I doubt most folks took much notice. Mostly fiddle players. The woman in question basically sat there the whole night and really didn't play a single tune. It wasn't a big deal for me just, as I titled this, bizzare. I really have never encountered this OCD behavior before in sessions.

As for Laura's etiquette e-mail, I think that was prompted by the growth of the jam rather than the incident which really was pretty minor. I'll ask her though when I see her again. It is very unlikely I would bring a 5 string with me as my main reason for coming to Boston is Irish gigs. I usually travel with a guitar and tenor banjo. I'm working on a new music project in Tucson so I'll probably be traveling a bit less this summer.

However, I would certainly be very happy to have her, or anyone, play any of my instruments. The other reason I wanted to try it was that it had a Dobson tone ring and I wanted to hear how it sounded since I have never played a banjo with that tone ring.

Cya!

Bob

Edited by - BDCA on 05/10/2013 06:48:15

Cottonmouth - Posted - 05/10/2013:  07:19:04

Quite a few years ago a friend and myself were in a small jam at a local coffee establishment. There were two college-age fellows who were ogling our Martin guitars and the instant one made a nice comment, we simultaneously handed them over. I cannot describe the surprise on their faces and their joy in playing those instruments. Needless to say, the gesture made me feel rather good and I have never forgotten that occasion.

trahciul - Posted - 05/10/2013:  07:54:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by BDCA

 

I was at an OT jam last night in Salem MA. I just got back into OT music and my recently acquired open back banjo is home in Tucson. I am traveling with a tenor banjo and guitar so bringing the 5 string was out of the question. A woman showed up with a Bart Reiter and I thought I'd have a chance to play a couple of tunes I have resurrected from the old days.

I chatted with this person a while and asked if I could borrow here banjo for a tune later. She replied that she is very careful with her banjos. I agreed that was good to be careful. She spent the next ten minutes trying to tune it.When my turn came to call the tune, I turned around to ask about borrowing the banjo and she said it had a broken 5th string. Then she asked me if I knew how to change the strings on a banjo. I said sure, and within a couple of minutes, the new 5th was replaced and tuned up. I then tried to play it and she said thank you and grabbed the banjo out of my hands. When my turn came around again I turned and asked if I could borrow here banjo for a tune and she refused much to the surprise of all the other musicians. Let me rephrase that, much to the surprise of the musicians.

Later she mentioned she has owned the banjo and has been taking lessons for 5 years!? WTF? Didn't know how to tune the banjo or change a string?

Strangest encounter at a jam to date! Well there was the crazy woman with the cello and the one stringed Chinese violin, but that's another story.

 

Cya!

Bob

 

---

maybe I am missing something here but I can't see any reason why this woman should lend you her banjo!  I would not let anyone play my instrument.  They could just run away with it!  Or perhaps they might commandeer it for a long period.  i think you were wrong to ask and definitely wrong to continue asking after being told that she did not like lending her banjo.

BDCA - Posted - 05/10/2013:  08:19:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by trahciul

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by BDCA

 

---

maybe I am missing something here but I can't see any reason why this woman should lend you her banjo!  I would not let anyone play my instrument.  They could just run away with it!  Or perhaps they might commandeer it for a long period.  i think you were wrong to ask and definitely wrong to continue asking after being told that she did not like lending her banjo.

---

And I think you are wrong for thinking that I was wrong for thinking the woman was wrong Jimmy!

Cya!

Bob

Edited by - BDCA on 05/10/2013 08:20:20

blockader - Posted - 05/10/2013:  08:48:41

I don't know how it works in Boston or Arizona (I imagine probably about the same way), but here in the South if you ask someone for something and they respond in the negative in a polite way that skirts the directness of just saying "No" you would do best to keep from continuing to bother or bully them into saying "Yes." Which is what it sounds like you were doing to her.

The woman's inability to change a string or play to a high level is besides the point, she tried to tell you "No" but you wouldn't listen. It was nice of you to change her string, though. Maybe you could have taken a few minutes to SHOW her how to do it, thus helping her and gaining her trust. People aren't going to like, respect, and trust you just because you are a decent musician.

You and I have not got on very well on BHO in the past, but this is how i would feel about the "bizarre" behavior, regardless of that.

I share my instruments with people I know, I can't think of a time when a complete and total stranger presumed to take away an instrument I brought to a gathering to use myself. I do have a friend who likes to show up to gatherings with absolutely NO instrument expecting to borrow other folk's  banjos and such. It is literally the most annoying thing i have ever encountered at a picking circle and i tell him flat out "NO" now. He does have his own instruments, after all. I assume you wouldn't do that haha!

Have you never refused someone an instrument you were currently using?

BDCA - Posted - 05/10/2013:  09:46:13

Have you never refused someone an instrument you were currently using?

Not in recent memory. Only when playing pub gigs and a seriously intoxicated patron wants to borrow an instrument to play Danny Boy. I have let folks in the audience, who seemed competent play my instruments during the breaks, but I do watch carefully for any signs of abuse. Give and Ye Shall Receive??

As for Southern Courtesy, I lived in Roanoke for many years and am no stranger to that concept. It's even more pronounced in Ireland.The woman in this discussion was from Brooklyn, NY not the South, and as we were the first to arrive, had a long chat. I asked her all about herself, her banjo, where she bought it, her lessons, etc. I also gave her my background as well and did mention I would love to borrow her banjo for a tune later.  I assumed, from the instrument, that she was an advanced player and would recognize that i was as well. If we hadn't had this foreplay, I would never have presumed to borrow her banjo for a tune.

you would do best to keep from continuing to bother or bully them into saying "Yes." Which is what it sounds like you were doing to her.

Maybe we don't get on well because of your wild accusations based on supposition rather than fact. I believe you just prefer being negative and that is , of course, your prerogative. I neither bullied nor bothered her and spent most of the time with her, changing the string and tuning her instrument. She had moved to the "outer circle" as soon as better musicians arrive, which I thought was strange since I assumed she was a good musician and would want to be close to the action. I was also hoping to learn a few things from since she had been taking lessons for 5 years and I only recently got back to CH.

Cya!

Bob

David McLaughlin - Posted - 05/10/2013:  09:57:56

Okay...Not knowing Bob personally, and being a person who very selectively allows strangers to try my instruments... According to the original post, I believe I can defend Bob as not having repeatedly asked to borrow her banjo *after* having been told no. First, Bob asked if he might "borrow her banjo for a tune *later*". She didn't say no. "She replied that she is very careful with her banjos". Okay, so Bob respected that. He "agreed that was good to be careful". So when Bob's "turn came to call the tune", he "turned around to ask about borrowing the banjo". Again, she did not say no. She said "it had a broken 5th string." Then Bob changed her string and tried to play the banjo, most likely to check it to see if all was in order before passing it back to her. Of course, her grabbing it back may have been a more than subtle hint. Then, it was only after his second tune-call that he made the request again, after never having been told no. It was only after that request that she refused to let him play it...I'm guessing verbally. Now, perhaps Bob could have taken her earlier words and actions as hints, but we don't know exactly how it all went down. I just don't think that Bob was badgering the woman, and I believe that had she simply said "No" the first time, Bob would have understood, respected her response, and not asked again.



Her not wanting Bob to play her banjo is not what is bizarre. It is that she wouldn't allow him to play it, yet allowed him to change a string on it. If I'm not going to let a person play one of my instruments for a single tune because of being careful, I most definitely won't allow them to change a string! So in that way only, I do find it bizarre. If she is "very careful with her banjos", then is it not odd that she considers changing a string less risky than having a single tune played on it by someone who has demonstrated he knows what how to be careful?

Edited by - David McLaughlin on 05/10/2013 10:06:51

Voyageur - Posted - 05/10/2013:  09:59:19

quote:

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Originally posted by bublnsqueak

 

This woman seems to have spent 5 years trying to understand how to play the music she loves without any progress (that is a very long time). Like many she has kidded herself that some of it sounds quite good. Once she plays with others her delusion is exposed, she feels inadequate and anxious. that is where the abruptness and rigidity comes from.



Probably very competent in some other aspect of her life and finds it hard to ask for advice.

 

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I think you've hit on something very close to the truth here. Bizarre as this woman's behavior might seem at first look, it does make a certain amount of sense when seen from the perspective you've described. She let a stranger change a string on her banjo probably because in that capacity, she saw him as merely a technician performing a technical job, like a mechanic repairing your car. We think nothing of trusting our mechanic with our car in the shop, but we wouldn't want him to take it for a spin downtown!

For this woman, playing music on her banjo is clearly a deeply personal thing with emotional and proprietary connotations. I do see how she would see a difference between asking someone to put on a string and allowing that person to take possession of her banjo for "a few tunes." This woman obviously feels an intimate connection with her banjo and didn't want some guy she doesn't know caressing her strings, so to speak!

I don't think we should characterize her as a nut. Bob asked to borrow the banjo and she said no, and he should have left it at that. When she asked later if he would put on a new string, he had a choice. Say no, because he doesn't owe her any help, or do it unconditionally and hand the banjo back to her. If he was willing to change the string to be a good guy, that's nice, but it shouldn't have been done with the idea that this would allow him to get his hands on her banjo to participate in the jam. I'm not saying that's the only reason he did the good deed, but it does seem to have been part of it.

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/10/2013:  10:12:54

quote:

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Originally posted by BDCA

 

...She spent the next ten minutes trying to tune it.When my turn came to call the tune, I turned around to ask about borrowing the banjo and she said it had a broken 5th string. Then she asked me if I knew how to change the strings on a banjo. I said sure, and within a couple of minutes, the new 5th was replaced and tuned up. I then tried to play it and she said thank you and grabbed the banjo out of my hands.

Bob

 

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If someone doesn't want to lend their instrument, that is up to them,  and I would let it drop. To me though, it is certainly poor form to ask someone to do a favor (put on a new string)  and then refuse to reciprocate by allowing them to play it for a tune or two.  I can see Bob's point.

And...if you didn't trust someone to play your banjo would you trust them to string it up?

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Jams can be a breeding ground for odd behavior.  I once attended one where the spoon "player" took to showing up with all sorts of noise-makers.  My fave was the antique flour sifter that she would try to crank in time to the music.

Also the 12-string guitarist who tuned a half-tone low so as not to over-stress the neck, yet refused to place a capo at the first fret because "it doesn't sound good".  Apparently accompanying "D" tunes in closed Eb fingerings sounded better.

And don't get me started on the slow-jammers who expect the whole group to slow down to quarter-speed because they can't read their tab any faster.

This is what leads to controlled or by invitation only jams.

I'm ranting..........

David McLaughlin - Posted - 05/10/2013:  10:13:52

quote:

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Originally posted by Voyageur

 

 

I think you've hit on something very close to the truth here. Bizarre as this woman's behavior might seem at first look, it does make a certain amount of sense when seen from the perspective you've described. She let a stranger change a string on her banjo probably because in that capacity, she saw him as merely a technician performing a technical job, like a mechanic repairing your car. We think nothing of trusting our mechanic with our car in the shop, but we wouldn't want him to take it for a spin downtown!

For this woman, playing music on her banjo is clearly a deeply personal thing with emotional and proprietary connotations. I do see how she would see a difference between asking someone to put on a string and allowing that person to take possession of her banjo for "a few tunes." This woman obviously feels an intimate connection with her banjo and didn't want some guy she doesn't know caressing her strings, so to speak!

I don't think we should characterize her as a nut. Bob asked to borrow the banjo and she said no, and he should have left it at that. When she asked later if he would put on a new string, he had a choice. Say no, because he doesn't owe her any help, or do it unconditionally and hand the banjo back to her. If he was willing to change the string to be a good guy, that's nice, but it shouldn't have been done with the idea that this would allow him to get his hands on her banjo to participate in the jam. I'm not saying that's the only reason he did the good deed, but it does seem to have been part of it.

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I might be reading the original post wrong or something, but I believe Bob only asked to play one tune and not a few tunes. I also read that after the first time she said no, he left it alone. What am I missing?

BDCA - Posted - 05/10/2013:  10:19:36

quote:

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Originally posted by David McLaughlin

 

Okay...Not knowing Bob personally, and being a person who very selectively allows strangers to try my instruments... According to the original post, I believe I can defend Bob as not having repeatedly asked to borrow her banjo *after* having been told no. First, Bob asked if he might "borrow her banjo for a tune *later*". She didn't say no. "She replied that she is very careful with her banjos". Okay, so Bob respected that. He "agreed that was good to be careful". So when Bob's "turn came to call the tune", he "turned around to ask about borrowing the banjo". Again, she did not say no. She said "it had a broken 5th string." Then Bob changed her string and tried to play the banjo, most likely to check it to see if all was in order before passing it back to her. Of course, her grabbing it back may have been a more than subtle hint. Then, it was only after his second tune-call that he made the request again, after never having been told no. It was only after that request that she refused to let him play it...I'm guessing verbally. Now, perhaps Bob could have taken her earlier words and actions as hints, but we don't know exactly how it all went down. I just don't think that Bob was badgering the woman, and I believe that had she simply said "No" the first time, Bob would have understood, respected her response, and not asked again.



Her not wanting Bob to play her banjo is not what is bizarre. It is that she wouldn't allow him to play it, yet allowed him to change a string on it. If I'm not going to let a person play one of my instruments for a single tune because of being careful, I most definitely won't allow them to change a string! So in that way only, I do find it bizarre. If she is "very careful with her banjos", then is it not odd that she considers changing a string less risky than having a single tune played on it by someone who has demonstrated he knows what how to be careful?

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That's EXACTLY what happened and after her outright refusal, we had no further communication. I had hoped to chat with her later and at least get a better look at the banjo as I will be looking for a similar instrument soon, but she left early after sitting in the corner and not playing most of the evening.

Cya!

Bob