Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/262382/4
Page: 1 2 3 4
mishe mokwa - Posted - 05/23/2013: 11:01:41
quote:
Originally posted by BDCA
Rural is a state of mind..
Cya!
Bob
This is quite a statement. Tell that to a family who lives on a centennial farm... Can "ruralness" be a state of mind? I suppose we have the ability to fabricate practically anyway of thinking, hence we have writers (kidding). When it comes to truth however I bet you'd get quite a look if you were to tell someone whose spent the majority of life (or entire life) in a rural area that what defines their way of life, history and identity was simply a "state of mind".
Edited by - mishe mokwa on 05/23/2013 11:09:15
Montanarick - Posted - 05/23/2013: 11:07:40
banjohangout.org/global/ckedit.../icon.png) center no-repeat #ff0000;cursor:pointer;top:-1px;-moz-border-radius:0px 0px 2px 2px;border-radius:0px 0px 2px 2px" title="Insert paragraph here">↵
quote
:I think what Bob means is that a "rural" state of mind can transcend the farm......I know it did in my family's case.....Rick
Originally posted by mishe mokwa
quote:
Originally posted by BDCA
Rural is a state of mind..
Cya!
Bob
This is quite a statement. Tell that to a family who lives on a centennial farm...
Edited by - Montanarick on 05/23/2013 11:08:42
mishe mokwa - Posted - 05/23/2013: 11:25:54
:I think what Bob means is that a "rural" state of mind can transcend the farm......I know it did in my family's case.....Rick
Forget the farm, how about any person (you for example) that has any kind of recent or cultural history living in and around (small towns) a rural area. I certainly can't claim, not matter how hard I try to obtain a "state of mind", that I have any kind of understanding of a rural way of life (I grew up in a city, live in a city), nor would I try, however it is has always been increasing popular in old time circles to try and claim (no accusations) some kind of rural identity ("Look I darn my own socks!!" this is a joke, not meant to offend, but only to humor).
I dont want to side track the original purpose of this topic any further, this is my last post so this topic can get back on track to its original subject, JAM ETIQUETTE.
Edited by - mishe mokwa on 05/23/2013 11:26:58
plunknplinkntwang - Posted - 05/23/2013: 11:34:57
I got the impression that the early 20th century Old Time music genre was rural in origin, but the audiences & consumers were largely urban. The audiences were being drawn to the cities by manufacturing jobs, which were made possible by the spread of steam powered machinery vs. the water powered factories that made the North East US a viable and profitable industrial hub prior to the conflict . The steam driven factory would appear to have expanded through the US post the civil war.
Also read somewhere that record label agents would go looking in the country for musicians and hold auditions in small town hotels?
Could be just another myth though
EDIT to add - I haven't a clue where the sources of this information are, just barnacles gathered whilst floating around :)
Edited by - plunknplinkntwang on 05/23/2013 11:36:41
BDCA - Posted - 05/23/2013: 11:56:59
What I meant was that an old time jam in downtown New York could appear and sound every bit as rural as one in Saxafahaw, NC. The differences, when I was a kid, were extreme. Today we have a much more homogenous culture and regional and urban - rural differences are not as significant as they used to be. A Walmart in Graham , NC is identical to one in Boston, MA. We are all buying the same Chinese crap.
The remaining differences are apparent in issues like gun control, abortion, and other red vs. blue issues.
cya!
Bob
Edited by - BDCA on 05/23/2013 11:59:02
Montanarick - Posted - 05/23/2013: 12:59:48
quote:Internet has also contributed dramatically to the reduction in differences........
Originally posted by BDCA
What I meant was that an old time jam in downtown New York could appear and sound every bit as rural as one in Saxafahaw, NC. The differences, when I was a kid, were extreme. Today we have a much more homogenous culture and regional and urban - rural differences are not as significant as they used to be. A Walmart in Graham , NC is identical to one in Boston, MA. We are all buying the same Chinese crap.
The remaining differences are apparent in issues like gun control, abortion, and other red vs. blue issues.
cya!
Bob
David McLaughlin - Posted - 05/24/2013: 06:05:52
quote:
Originally posted by Montanarick
quote:Internet has also contributed dramatically to the reduction in differences........
AH....Exactly why my playing has remained pure & rural. I don't use the internet.
BDCA - Posted - 05/24/2013: 07:31:30
Actually what it does is give us city boys access to folks like you he heh. Although Winchester is hardly rural..these days it's a DC suburb.
When I lived in Roanoke in the 80s, I was an active ham radio operator and lived on a hill with a 100ft tower and thousands of dollars worth of gear. I could point my beam and talk to just about any place in the world. From rural America to Australia and Timbuktu. Today, any kid with a smart phone takes that for granted. Just look at the BHO, a prime example how rural, city and suburban folks can communicate with ease, we are sharing ideas internationally.
The internet is a great thing!
Cya!
Bob
David McLaughlin - Posted - 05/24/2013: 10:53:54
Okay...Now you've REALLY done it, Bob. First, you ask to try out someone's banjo at a jam, now you're suggesting that Winchester is a suburb of DC ? Them's fightin' words!
Cya, Bob!
David
BDCA - Posted - 05/24/2013: 11:39:30
Dave,,
Tell me you don't know someone that commutes to DC or at least Fairfax Co!?
Cya!
Bob
5Stringtrout - Posted - 05/24/2013: 12:23:23
In 1988 before I moved to Winchester I commuted from Fairfax to Winchester everyday for about 5 months. I had a neighbor in Winchester who commutes to DC every day by going to Martinsburg,WV to catch the train. Western Frederick County is startintg to have too many traffic lights so we moved to Highland County where there are none. Not too many old time jams here to be bizarre at, we need some. (Jams not traffic lights.)
Beachbum Scott - Posted - 05/24/2013: 13:54:25
Wow Montana rick that family history sounds just like mine!!!
Montanarick - Posted - 05/24/2013: 16:01:39
quote:Scott....My Dad's father's family ended up in Fort Collins (from Kansas) and his mother's family were from Greeley......Rick
PS....I used to be a major Beachbum.....lived in Florida when I was in my late teens, college and beyond!
Originally posted by Beachbum Scott
Wow Montana rick that family history sounds just like mine!!!
Edited by - Montanarick on 05/24/2013 16:03:00
Matt Buckley - Posted - 05/24/2013: 17:31:38
quote:
Originally posted by plunknplinkntwang
An insistence at an open forum event; that everyone will be at, or stay at your own ability or any fixed level of performance is both inconsiderate and selfish. Closed forums/sessions, whether slow jams or maestro renditions, are a different matter.
Several posters have attempted to distinguish between open and closed sessions. I'm not sure the distinction is all that helpful.
Yes, there are closed sessions where the very best play. But there are also open sessions where the very best play. For example, every Saturday in Montpelier, Vermont Irish session musicians gather at Bagitos Cafe. Those of you that know anything about Irish traditional music around the Northeast and indeed the country will recognize names like Benedict Koehler (Irish pipes) and Sarah Blair (fiddle). Very, very fine musicians gather at Bagitos, but all are welcome who listen, pay attention and are considerate. A beginner playing a simple tune, tolerably well played, tolerably in tune and tolerably in tempo, is not at all shunned or ridiculed.
Several of us here are attempting, perhaps in vain with respect to a few others, to suggest that it's not nearly so much about talent or level of play as it is about courtesy and wisdom. I've watched, in sessions, some of the very best Irish musicians in the world, e.g. Liz Carroll, Billy McComisky, Seamus Connally, Jerry O'Sullivan, Liam O"Flynn, be perfectly content to share time and tunes with far less experienced players. What they won't tolerate is rudeness.
I'm sorry, but my experience in this has very little to do with demanding a "fixed level of performance" or "staying at your own level of ability". It's about being a grown-up. Know yourself, read the room, and you'll be fine. Ignore the room, refuse to look in the mirror, and you'll find yourself wondering why everyone is heading for the bar a few minutes after you started wailing away on your instrument and then posting on the Forum about all those damned elitists.
Cheers.
Matt
Edited by - Matt Buckley on 05/24/2013 17:37:24
plunknplinkntwang - Posted - 05/24/2013: 18:00:02
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Buckley
quote:
Originally posted by plunknplinkntwang
An insistence at an open forum event; that everyone will be at, or stay at your own ability or any fixed level of performance is both inconsiderate and selfish. Closed forums/sessions, whether slow jams or maestro renditions, are a different matter.
Several posters have attempted to distinguish between open and closed sessions. I'm not sure the distinction is all that helpful.
Yes, there are closed sessions where the very best play. But there are also open sessions where the very best play. For example, every Saturday in Montpelier, Vermont Irish session musicians gather at Bagitos Cafe. Those of you that know anything about Irish traditional music around the Northeast and indeed the country will recognize names like Benedict Koehler (Irish pipes) and Sarah Blair (fiddle). Very, very fine musicians gather at Bagitos, but all are welcome who listen, pay attention and are considerate. A beginner playing a simple tune, tolerably well played, tolerably in tune and tolerably in tempo, is not at all shunned or ridiculed.
Several of us here are attempting, perhaps in vain with respect to a few others, to suggest that it's not nearly so much about talent or level of play as it is about courtesy and wisdom. I've watched, in sessions, some of the very best Irish musicians in the world, e.g. Liz Carroll, Billy McComisky, Seamus Connally, Jerry O'Sullivan, Liam O"Flynn, be perfectly content to share time and tunes with far less experienced players. What they won't tolerate is rudeness.
I'm sorry, but my experience in this has very little to do with demanding a "fixed level of performance" or "staying at your own level of ability". It's about being a grown-up. Know yourself, read the room, and you'll be fine. Ignore the room, refuse to look in the mirror, and you'll find yourself wondering why everyone is heading for the bar a few minutes after you started wailing away on your instrument and then posting on the Forum about all those damned elitists.
Cheers.
Matt
Aside from me making no mention of elitism, your examples are good anecdotes of what I'd intended to convey.
And the same principles apply in reverse too, it would be just as rude for those greats to attend a different, less proficient, jam expect the participants to perform at the same level as those you've described. And just as rude to post on a forum about those damned incompetents.
I'll repeat that I've neither jamming experience nor motivation - it's just common decency to be considerate in any social situation
BDCA - Posted - 05/24/2013: 18:42:31
One interesting experience I had was during a recent trip to NC, I was invited to an old time jam with a few members of the group I was performing with but as a listener. This particular jam had a strict size limit of participating musicians. I didn't feel slighted in the least.
Cya!
Bob
Clawdan - Posted - 05/28/2013: 12:05:53
quote:
Originally posted by mishe mokwa...
Not to split hairs, but I disagree with the statement that this is not "rural music". Rural is defined (via webster.com) "of or relating to the country, country people or life, or agriculture". I would bet that the "town" Mr Acuff spoke of was undoubtedly in very close proximity to some kind of agricultural countryside. More importantly I'd bet that towns economy was very closely tied to that agricultural economy, OR mining if he was from coal country (grain elevators, dairy farmers, people living in town might of been seasonal workers, the schools were likely paid for with revenue resulting from the surrounding agricultural/rural area). Most importantly we can CERTAINLY distinguish between metropolitan areas (ie. large cities) and towns/rural areas. The cultural "climate" of cities, I think we can agree, is far different from a rural area. Also I've never met person (and I've known many over the age 80) that has grown up in town within a rural areas and distinguished the culture of "town" from the countryside surrounding it. Most importantly (from my own experience) those families that had moved to town didn't adopt any alien culture or lose any part of there rural culture. In conclusion, they still raised chickens, knew how to identify local plants, had "gatherings" at other people's home places, had extensive knowledge of the areas history, could run a team of horses or still had the knowledge of local work habits and generally still lived a "rural" life.
I agree that the music is no longer "rural" in its entirety, but I think that is a really recent development (post 60's folk revival).
(Sorry for the formatting, I don't know why it looks so crazy.)
Sorry, mishe, Alcoa, TN was the town and the primary industry was the aluminum plant. THAT was the primary foundation of the economy. Like today, most of the folks out there couldn't wait to get to town and work in the factories there. Follow the building of the railroads and you will start the tracing of people and their culture to "town".
MrNatch3L - Posted - 05/28/2013: 12:34:17
quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e
The world is full of weirdos. Some of them play banjo!
Bill
I resemble that remark! 
banjobart - Posted - 05/28/2013: 19:05:47
That's odd that the grumpy personality of the maker rubbed off on the player!
dmiller - Posted - 05/28/2013: 20:33:01
Wow. I just found this topic, and (finally) finished reading all 7 pages.
Bizarre indeed! There are SOOO many things to comment about here,
I'm going to directly address the initial post (only), and then will generalize
my comments on some of the comments I've read here tonight.
First of all - - BDCA is 100% correct (while probably still scratching his head) as to why the woman in question would feel comfortable handing her banjo over for a string change, but uncomfortable enough to refuse to let him use it for a tune. Folks- - - let's get real here. He wasn't asking to borrow it for the entire night's "jam/ or session/ or whatever it was". He wanted to borrow it for one tune, and one tune only. And while we're at it, Bob mentioned that the choice of tunes had gone around the circle so it stands to reason (in my mind) that he must've been picking on all those tunes. Was that woman deaf as well as arrogantly possessive of her banjo? Didn't she hear him play and realize he was no novice? She probably would've refused to let Bob Carlin or Pete Seeger play a tune on it too had they been there and asked.
Jam's are a touchy thing. You find one that you like/ you can mesh with/ you know all the songs that are going to be played and in what key/ get along with all the other pickers/ and the next thing you know - - you get "protective" of the dang thing. Suddenly it's no longer "public property" the way it was when you first found it. That's both good and bad. There needs to be an aura of leniency (when it comes to new folks who can't pick that well), and by the same token it needs to still live up to the standards of the more experienced players who've been there over the years.
Back in 1978, I (and a coupla other folks) started a jam here:
Anybody - - (Newbie/ Pro/ Closet picker) was welcome to sit in with us. The jam is still going on these 35 years later, and some of us who were there at the beginning are still there. Picking reigned supreme, but tolerance for new pickers ran a very close second. If there was a need for an instrument, they were gladly passed around the table (if the one doing the requesting wasn't some drunk derelict). I've passed my mandolin and banjo (many times) to folks I didn't know while there at the center table for them to pick on, while I picked up a different instrument. Of course - - I was sitting right there too, so I could keep an eye on whatever instrument of mine it was that someone else was picking on.
Back in 1993, there was an internal "clash" going on with the folks who went to the weekly Wednesday night jams at Sir Ben's. Some wanted to do more "country style" tunes, and some of us were more interested in fiddle tunes. I was doing back-up guitar (mostly) at the time and since I'd set the original jam up, I went to the owners and asked if we could do a "fiddle night" there. They loved the idea, and Thursday night jams at Sir Ben's was born. The "Jams" have become (from what I'm reading here) "sessions". Highly structured, and you'd best know the tunes (currently the Portland Collection is the "choice of tunes"). But - - with all that said, a few years back a mother brought her daughter (age 6) to hear us.
The mother had also brought her daughter's fiddle along and when we were taking a break, she asked if we would let her (the daughter) sit in for the one or two tunes she knew so she could experience playing with others. A couple of us just looked at each other and said "Why not?" L***** (the daughter) did a painfully slow (but decent) version of Ashoken Farewell, and Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star. Like I said - - Tolerance ranks high in our sense of priorities here while also maintaining our level of performing, even when it's for a non-paid performance in a public pub.
I find it amazing that folks have cast doubt on Bob's motives for borrowing that banjo. I find it to be the most natural thing in the world, ESPECIALLY given all the following posts where he mentioned how he'd spoken with the woman/ gotten to know her a bit/ told her about himself/ yada/ yada/ yada. Some folks here are just too dang skeptical/ cynical/ and downright untrusting of other human beings who have honest motives and intentions.
(edited to add - - - )
OK - - - I'm done.
It good to be kind to others. 
Edited by - dmiller on 05/28/2013 20:48:20
BDCA - Posted - 05/28/2013: 21:47:36
DM, you are welcome at any session /j am/ hooley I'm involved with and you an most certainly borrow any of my instruments and possibly my girlfriend...
Cya!
Bob
dmiller - Posted - 05/28/2013: 22:16:08
quote:
Originally posted by BDCA
DM, you are welcome at any session /j am/ hooley I'm involved with and you an most certainly borrow any of my instruments and possibly my girlfriend...
Cya!
Bob
Ha! I used to have a wife, and I used to have girlfriends too.
I gave them up for Lent. Uhhh - - is Lent over with yet? 
BDCA - Posted - 05/29/2013: 04:03:31
I gave them up for Lent.
HEY! That's my favorite expression!!
Cya!
Bob
kipperr - Posted - 05/29/2013: 06:28:16
quote:
Originally posted by 5Stringtrout
Hilarie Burhans - Posted - 06/03/2013: 21:57:41
Gracious! You banjo players sure are contentious! I have no idea who almost anyone in this thread is, but having read all 7 pages, am also jumping in to say:
1) Bizarre is right, but as somebody pointed out, you don't know her backstory. I don't either, but while it's fun to guess at it (perhaps she just left an abusive relationship where her partner both took care of changing her strings and grabbed her banjo away whenever she started to play it, scarring her for life?) we probably will not know. I know lots of folks with a touch of mental illness... don't you know any? I'm not saying she's mentally ill, but what if she was? Which leads me to...
2) She has a banjo. She may well be a BH member, reading this right now. Was there possibly a wee bit of trying to get back at her for not lending her banjo by giving enough clues as to her identity that it would somehow shame her publicly?
3) Re: jam/session etiquette: I admit to running two jams, both held on the same day of the month: an all-inclusive slow jam in the afternoon, and an invitation-only jam in the evening. Sort of separate-but-equal, and I feel I'm doing my part to both encourage new players and have lots of personal fun playing with people of a similar ability/experience level in the evening. But I've been to lots of other jams with people of various playing abilities, and loved it every time, as long as people follow the cardinal session rule: PLAY EITHER QUIETLY OR WELL. It's what I teach my students as they gear up to have fun playing in social settings instead of playing alone, and it sounds to me like this woman was following this rule. So I'm not too sure what the fuss is about.
BDCA - Posted - 06/03/2013: 22:05:42
Well she didn't really play at all!!
Just came across this pic from last month in CH: I'll be back at the same bizarre jam next week and CH on the 18th.
Cya!
Bob
Matt Buckley - Posted - 06/04/2013: 15:09:36
quote:
Originally posted by Hilarie Burhans
PLAY EITHER QUIETLY OR WELL .... So I'm not too sure what the fuss is about.
The fuss, of course, is about the fact that many folks that come to sessions cannot play either quietly or well. The question, which we've all been faced with, is what to do about them
Cheers.
Matt
J-Walk - Posted - 06/04/2013: 19:10:01
quote:
Originally posted by BDCA
Just came across this pic from last month in CH: I'll be back at the same bizarre jam next week and CH on the 18th.
That's not a jam. It's a small town!
Seriously, that could be split into about 8 separate groups, and everyone would probably be happier. Dibs on the bass player's group!
BDCA - Posted - 06/04/2013: 19:54:22
I was just the guitar playing interloper. But I would guess there are some BHO members in the picture? So tonight I am carrying a banjo and a guitar on the plane with see what happens CyaA! Bob
bohemian - Posted - 06/08/2013: 17:07:47
" PLAY EITHER QUIETLY OR WELL. It's what I teach my students as they gear up to have fun playing in social settings instead of playing alone, and it sounds to me like this woman was following this rule. So I'm not too sure what the fuss is about"
Precisely.
BDCA - Posted - 06/09/2013: 08:39:23
quote:
Originally posted by bohemian
" PLAY EITHER QUIETLY OR WELL. It's what I teach my students as they gear up to have fun playing in social settings instead of playing alone, and it sounds to me like this woman was following this rule. So I'm not too sure what the fuss is about"
Precisely.
It's a long thread that has drifted, but if you go back and read the original posts it's about borrowing an instrument for one tune after changing someones string. Part of the bizzare behavior was that this person had a Bart Reiter Bacophone, had been taking lessons for 5 years and couldn't tune or change a string on her banjo. Playing etiquette was never an issue.
Cya!
Bob
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 06/09/2013: 10:27:37
I've seen much longer threads than this on the BHO - but they were about something.
This is the longest thread about nothing that I have ever seen here.
captbanjo - Posted - 06/09/2013: 11:08:35
One man's nothing is another man's something I guess. It's all in the mind of the reader. Just take what you may need and you can leave the rest if you so choose.
If things turn really sour we can always discuss right hand position.
Wayne
sunburst - Posted - 06/09/2013: 11:16:10
deleted (oops)
Edited by - sunburst on 06/09/2013 11:18:05
sunburst - Posted - 06/09/2013: 11:17:12
other half of mistaken double post deleted (another oops)
Edited by - sunburst on 06/09/2013 11:18:50
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 06/09/2013: 11:20:02
quote:
Originally posted by captbanjo
One man's nothing is another man's something I guess. It's all in the mind of the reader. Just take what you may need and you can leave the rest if you so choose.
If things turn really sour we can always discuss right hand position.
Wayne
Like keeping it on the banjo, instead of the computer keyboard?
Page: 1 2 3 4
