quote:

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Originally posted by chuckv97

Bills are surging,,, no “lake-effect” snow

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Errr... I think I jinxed them

hmmm.... or maybe not

Ooops >>  https://www.nhl.com/news/toronto-nearly-sold-frank-mahovlich-to-chicago-for-one-million-dollars-in-1962    But, but, but, I did get two bits right ... the amount AND the position.  

The rumour back then was that the “Big M” was considered lazy by coach Punch Imlach. I’m sure “Pal Hal” and the besotted Stafford Smythe had a say in it.
Imlach later went on to coach and manage the new kids on the block, the Buffalo Sabres. He coaxed Tim Horton out of retirement by buying him a hot car - a De Tomaso Pantera. Hopped up on booze and pain pills from years of body-crashes into the end boards and numerous Gordie Howe elbows, Horton proceeded to roll his car at 120 mph at the Lake St. overpass in St. Catharines on his way back to Buffalo.

Our friendly insider, former NHL policeman John Scott (who grew up in St. Catharines! , btw) , spills the beans on the C Perry saga.
oilersdaily.com/nhl/news/NBC-C...-contract

Seems to me "made a pass" is pretty open-ended.   I suspect that the only bean that has been spilled might be, "... drank too much."   But, I've heard rumours that I've been wrong before. 

Btw Chuck,  though I realize it's likely not the final word, I'm wondering what you think of the court ruling that honking horns and whizzing in a flower bed don't constitute a threat to national security??   

[I was gonna post it as a thread, but, as any link would contain the word "government" .....  .]

Well, seeing as how this is a sports thread, I understand the trash talk and gamesmanship of said protesters. Methinks the boy True-tho became antsy as did our honorable member from northern Alberta (“see that gal with the red dress on”), having thoughts of armed conflict a la the dark forces behind the convoy…. Pat King and co. I notice the presider on the ruling mentioned a caveat, saying others qualified to make a judgement might rule differently. Ah, those wishy-washy pinko, la-dee-da Canadian fence-sitters… (some might call it “diplomatic”)

[pitchers &catchers report Feb.13]

How come the bozos that are calling the shots don't realize that shiny/chrome/metallic helmets are not "TV friendly"?  https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks-new-metallic-blue-helmets

... and don't the Maple Laffs looks particularly spiffy [choke, cough, barf] in their  $%#*&^%&  black  *^$#^%&%(%  uniforms tonite?

... and one of these times I'll tell you what I really think about it!!  

Everything deez daze seems to revolve around black and grey/gray when it comes to sports uniforms… methinks it’s the gambling mob influence again,,,, ever notice that BooYay games always had to start exactly at 7 minutes after the hour? I can still hear Tom Cheek or Jerry Howarth saying”First pitch at 7:07”….. but I’m no conspiracy theorist, nor am I saying perfect is the enemy of the good,,, (pitchers &catchers report Feb.13)

During a recent game a player (A) dropped his intact stick. A team mate (B) used his own (i.e. B's) stick to flip A's stick into the air and A caught it.   But B was given a pen-al-tee.   Is that how this rule http://rulebook.hockeycanada.ca/english/part-i-technical-rules/section-3/rule-3-2/  is to be applied?

Nobody paid it no mind let alone mouth any bad words, but it seemed pretty chintzy to me.

P.S. Need I be looking over my shoulder? .... referring to mobsters as bozos?!?!?!

Edit:  Canucks/Blues on .... Canucks' metallic helmets are better'n I'd expected ... not nearly as bad as LA and Vegas.   [And seeing as they're to be auctioned for charity, I guess I'll "reconsider."]

Edit #2:  Jets two-on-zero against Samsonov and they can't score ... initially the lack of effort by the Laffs backchecking looked to me like they'd sorta conceded a goal??  [Isn't stuff like that only supposed to happen in beer leagues?] 

“ A player who has lost or broken their stick may only receive another stick at their own Players’ Bench or be handed one from a teammate on the ice.” “handed” being the operative word.
(methinks you’re probably safe in bee-you-tee-full west-central (actually south-west) Man-ee-toe-bah ,, but I wouldn’t venture too close to Wab’s HQ in the Peg , hometown of former TeePee coach and manager Rudy Pilous.

ed., conceded a goal?? See, it's those betting hoodlums again! 

quote:

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Originally posted by chuckv97

“ A player who has lost or broken their stick may only receive another stick at their own Players’ Bench or be handed one from a teammate on the ice.” “handed” being the operative word.
(methinks you’re probably safe in bee-you-tee-full west-central (actually south-west) Man-ee-toe-bah ,, but I wouldn’t venture too close to Wab’s HQ in the Peg , hometown of former TeePee coach and manager Rudy Pilous.

ed., conceded a goal?? See, it's those betting hoodlums again! Wink, Wink, Nudge, Nudge...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Owen

 

Btw Chuck,  though I realize it's likely not the final word, I'm wondering what you think of the court ruling that honking horns and whizzing in a flower bed don't constitute a threat to national security??   

[I was gonna post it as a thread, but, as any link would contain the word "government" .....  .]

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Geez, with "the past is a pretty good indicator/predictor of the future" in mind, posting that pic is a pretty ballsy maneuver, no?  

I wasn't aware that P.K. was behind the convoy... in fact I've heard that the convoy organizers explicitly said so.... but I guess Justine's, and the girl in the red dress's, integrity [choke, cough, choke] trumps everybody else's??  Is it cockeyed logic to say: IF P.K. [and Co.] are/were doing something illegal, arrest them ... and leave the law-abiding masses [and their bank accounts] alone. ?

Btw, I'm having trouble locating your yea/nay] take on the judge's ruling.

And furthermore, isn't the specter of legal difficulties for the 5 members of the 2018 World Junior Team way more newsworthy than those dudes in the ^^ pic?  Maybe DC/MD can be cajoled into making a HNIC guest appearance  and fill us in on how hockey players are "the best" [or at least appreciably different from other athletes].

I trust you lads are following this wretched story.

It hasn't received anywhere near as much attention here in the 'States as it has up north, given that the percentage of hockey fans relative to overall population hereabouts is a fraction of that in the Frozen North.

Nothing like this should ever happen, full stop. But the fact that it did - and that it's taken so long for the light to shine? That's just flat out disgraceful. Yes, I've little doubt that similar and possibly even worse has happened in the past - I understand there's now a close look being taken at the 2002 class. But that's no excuse.

Yes, heads have rolled at Hockey Canada, and deservedly so. But as things develop, this all looks even worse for the game - and for the NHL, and the teams that drafted and subsequently signed these kids. What did Bettman know? What did team ownership and management know?

I suspect that by the time this is over, some very powerful people at the NHL level will be looking for new employment. It wouldn't surprise me if ultimately Bettman finds himself in the crosshairs.

What an absolute $#!+show. And what a tragedy for this wonderful game.

I don’t agree with the judge’s ruling,, I supported the emergency measures,, it’s just unfortunate that the net was cast so wide to freeze innocent yet convoy-supportive citizens’ bank accounts. Collateral damage?
The convoy organizers tried to distance themselves from Pat K because his rantings were violent in nature,, but I’m sure they welcomed his minions who were part of the Ottawa scene. There were other characters of dubious backgrounds in the loosely/chaotic organized convoy leadership (they changed press spokespeople a few times,, hmmm). btw, P.K.was arrested , as was the sob-stricken lady from The Hat.

"Now you can hear what he has to say in his popular weekly Don Cherry's Grapevine podcast, which he records every Sunday with his son Tim, daughter Cindy and grandson Del. “We are up to five million downloads now,” Cherry said."

Skip, it’s a sorry mess, for sure. I hope it isn’t a permanent stain on the sport itself, which is bigger than a few ne’er-do-wells,,, (or maybe not so few,, as this could be a hockey-culture thing).
“ Criticism of Hockey Canada’s handling of the alleged assault included the revelation of a fund using minor hockey registration fees that paid for “uninsured liabilities” including sexual assault and abuse claims. Scott Smith testified to the Canadian government’s Heritage Committee on July 27, 2022, that the organization had spent $8.9 million since 1989 to settle 21 sexual misconduct lawsuits. New allegations surfaced including an alleged assault involving the 2003 Canadian team at the world juniors in Halifax and many of Hockey Canada’s sponsors – including Tim Hortons, Canadian Tire, Scotiabank, TELUS and Imperial Oil – initially paused sponsorship of the organization. The federal government also froze Hockey Canada’s access to public funds before restoring it last April.”

"

"January 24, 2024, 10:33 AM

Five players have been told by London Police Services to surrender in connection with allegations of a sexual assault in June 2018 on a woman by members of the 2018 Canadian World Junior hockey team, The Globe and Mail reported Wednesday"

Yep, I'm aware of all of it... a sorry mess for certain. IMO more heads should roll.

quote:

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Originally posted by chuckv97

Skip, it’s a sorry mess, for sure. I hope it isn’t a permanent stain on the sport itself, which is bigger than a few ne’er-do-wells,,, (or maybe not so few,, as this could be a hockey-culture thing).
“ Criticism of Hockey Canada’s handling of the alleged assault included the revelation of a fund using minor hockey registration fees that paid for “uninsured liabilities” including sexual assault and abuse claims. Scott Smith testified to the Canadian government’s Heritage Committee on July 27, 2022, that the organization had spent $8.9 million since 1989 to settle 21 sexual misconduct lawsuits. New allegations surfaced including an alleged assault involving the 2003 Canadian team at the world juniors in Halifax and many of Hockey Canada’s sponsors – including Tim Hortons, Canadian Tire, Scotiabank, TELUS and Imperial Oil – initially paused sponsorship of the organization. The federal government also froze Hockey Canada’s access to public funds before restoring it last April.”

"

"January 24, 2024, 10:33 AM

Five players have been told by London Police Services to surrender in connection with allegations of a sexual assault in June 2018 on a woman by members of the 2018 Canadian World Junior hockey team, The Globe and Mail reported Wednesday"

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I found this book worthwhile:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Line:_Sexual_Assault_in_Canada%27s_National_Sport#:~:text=Crossing%20the%20Line%20is%20a,abuse%20in%20junior%20ice%20hockey.&text=The%20book%20documents%20examples%20of,owners%20of%20ice%20hockey%20teams.

From ^^ ... "The book documents how Canadian society idolizes ice hockey players from a young age and draws parallels between public enthusiasm for ice hockey and organized religion.^[4]"

 ^{My take is that that ^^ entire mindset needs a reboot* .... change from the top down or bottom up, or both??}

^{* = I'm not saying that I've done all I could/should/?? have.} 

^{Edit: Yep... unfortunate / collateral damage ...} https://giphy.com/gifs/lfc-cfFwsi570dkd7R8umG     Boy ... was that easy, er what?!?!?  

quote:

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Originally posted by Owen

I found this book worthwhile:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Line:_Sexual_Assault_in_Canada%27s_National_Sport#:~:text=Crossing%20the%20Line%20is%20a,abuse%20in%20junior%20ice%20hockey.&text=The%20book%20documents%20examples%20of,owners%20of%20ice%20hockey%20teams.

From ^^ ... "The book documents how Canadian society idolizes ice hockey players from a young age and draws parallels between public enthusiasm for ice hockey and organized religion.^[4]"

 ^{My take is that that ^^ entire mindset needs a reboot* .... change from the top down or bottom up, or both??}

^{* = I'm not saying that I've done all I could/should/?? have.} 

^{Edit: Yep... collateral damage ...} https://giphy.com/gifs/lfc-cfFwsi570dkd7R8umG     Boy, ... was that easy, er what?!?!?  

 

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I'm not sure that's ever going to change, Owen. Hockey, near as I can tell, is a big component of national pride, and deservedly so. And I'm not sure the mindset SHOULD change. Let me explain why.

Let me start by saying that the more I think about this, the angrier I become about it. I see two major failings here.

First, let's start with youth sports development. The problem isn't unique to hockey and Canada - we see it on display especially with football here in the US. Talented kids are coddled, given an over-inflated sense of their own value. And there's a lot of money on the line - therein the rub. But the simple fact is that only a tiny fraction of one percent of all the kids that come through these programs - pick your sport - ever turns pro. And an even smaller percentage becomes elite. Isn't the primary purpose of team sports to build good people, who work together to accomplish good things? Yes, I know how randy and thoughtless kids in their late teens can be. But it seems like development programs aren't coaching values at the same time they're coaching skills.

Second: given how important Hockey Canada is to the NHL, I find it nearly impossible to believe that the top echelons of the NHL - including Bettmann, the Board of Governors, and pretty much everyone else in the senior echelons of team management, didn't know what was going on. We'll probably find out more as this story develops, but it sure looks right now like they didnt bother with due diligence or asking the right questions. Heck, we saw a small example of that last year in Boston, when the team inexplicably signed a player who'd already been cut by another team for abuse of a developmentally-disabled "friend."

From the top down to the junior development programs, the NHL needs to set the tone going forward. It needs to make clear that moral failures, at the player and coach levels, can end your career before it even starts.

God knows there are enough talented players in this world to take up the slack. I don't think the product is likely to suffer.

.

quote:

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Originally posted by Owen

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In view of the Hockey Canada scandal, I'm not sure this bodes well for improvement...

I "wondered" as well, Skip.   .... so I waited to see what others thought.

I have a bit of difficulty reconciling: A) Talented kids are coddled, given an over-inflated sense of their own value. <snip> and  B) Isn't the primary purpose of team sports to build good people ... ?  If B) is true, then somebody needs a wake-up call re. A).

I agree with your take on the corrupting influence of big doll-aaars, but the extent to which parents [and even "others" in smaller communities for sure and maybe even larger ones too] will go to to accept/excuse the bad behaviour of hockey players is disconcerting, IMNSHumbleO.  I maintain that change has to come from both ends [not necessarily equally??]. 

I think the pic re. MacKinnon  lends a wee bit of credence to my NSHumbleO.  If I didn't see the acceptance of the sh**ty behaviour of hockey players, particularly in small(er) communities, I'd probably be more inclined to slough it off.  [I'm not saying all, or even most, young players behave sh***ily; the influence is disproportionate.] 

[Thanks for your usual/typical reasoned analysis/analyses.]

quote:

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Originally posted by Owen

I agree with your take on the corrupting influence of big doll-aaars, but the extent to which parents [and even "others" in smaller communities for sure and maybe even larger ones too] will go to to accept/excuse the bad behaviour of hockey players is disconcerting, IMNSHumbleO.  I maintain that change has to come from both ends [not necessarily equally??]. 

 

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Owen, that is a SUPERB point! It's not limited to hockey, methinks - here in the Aye-Tats You-Knees, it's seen in high school (let alone college!) football - and in some places, Little League baseball has trouble finding coaches and umpires because the parents are such jerks.

Your comment on this is thus squarely on the (pardon the expression) money. The problem is much bigger than development organizations trying to rake it in while protecting their own hineys.  True, the leagues at the pinnacles of these various sports could and should set a tone, but we've ample evidence across the world of sport that that's unlikely to happen.

Sigh. I'd thought I'd come up with a reasonable solution. You've reminded me that the problem is more complex, and thus my elegant little recipe won't work.

Now I'm depressed again. Thanks ever so darned much.

My daughter manages a minor hockey team of 9-12 year olds,, she was also organizer/manager of a tournament last December , with 5 area teams participating. She had lots of problems with angry parents over scheduling issues and tourney rules,, so I’m thinking , as you pointed out, that many parents are setting a terrible example,, & the kids follow suit as they move up the ladder.

Re. "... the parents are such jerks."

Yep, no shortage of jerks .... whether they be coaches, volunteers, or just run-of-the mill parents.

It's  older'n dirt, but lots of times who matters more than what ... an observation or suggestion coming from one of the inner circle is generally viewed in a slightly (?) different light than the same suggestion from that know-nothing schmuck in the back row.

More often than not, when non-inner-circle parents do mention that there might be other [better??] options, they are dismissed and/or ostracized as being negative thinkers / not being a team player / etc.  [...  dare I say, looking for flies in the ointment??   ]  

Undoubtedly there are good/reasonable/conscientious people that volunteer, and  I salute the good guys [and ladies] that persevere despite the B.S..   I suppose if the sample was large enuff it would form a bell curve??    Although the context was different, maybe it's like our man T.C. said: "If you haven't suffered enough, it's your god-given right to suffer some more."   [Though I expect the original version had a capital "G."]

I don't have much in the way of answers, but I wonder about letting the cream rise to the top instead of trying to force it.  Some will say that's what rec. leagues are for, and it's a valid point, though most small communities don't have enuff kids for 2 teams/programs.    And there's also probably merit when some say that it's not forcing the issue, it's simply enhancing opportunity [for their kid].

As an aside/afterthought, where does, "Everybody is just trying to do their best." fit in??  Ditto for one of my mammy's teachings: "It takes all kinds."