Ok this might sound like a 'capt obvious' posting topic but I find it a recurring theme. As a long time teacher patterns emerge with folks learning to play that I notice and take note (pun intended) of. One thing that is a recurring theme I see is folks continuing to spend excessive amounts of practice time doing things they do well. "Its human nature to want to do something again and again that gives you the feeling of 'hey i can nail this!" But the most important part of practice is to identify and see things you aren't doing well or don't quite grasp fully.
A student once wanted to get better at playing the backwards roll. I asked him how much he practiced doing them. He said " not much because im bad at it, but I can really kill the forwards roll". To which I replied " ok, if you dont practice the backwards roll and only play forwards how do you propose to get better at it?" That probably sounds so obvious to be silly to put on a posting here but it happens more than you think. If you really take stock of your skill set, you can map out a practice routine that focuses on getting better at those things you KNOW you are weakest in.
This isnt to say that all practice time should be so focused and regimented, but it is called 'practice' for a reason and the reason isnt to keep doing things you are 'good' at already and to feel all warm and fuzzy about it. One obsticle that we all face is being complacent with our playing and skill set. practices can be more effective if you make it that way by really being honest about your weaknesses and then setting aside time to focus on that.
Great Post John. Teacher's can also help a lot in finding your weak points and advising you on how to correct them, there other ways too, but a good teacher goes a long way.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. I know a lot of people who "practice" x hours or whatever because they think that's the way to do it. If you don't have a goal in mind when you start your practice, you're just going through the motions. Having a goal in practice will make your reflective. "Here's where I want to go. How do I get there? What am I doing wrong? What am I doing right? how do I get more right ad less wrong?"
Plenty of people think they are practising when what they are doing is playing and having fun.
Heck, I did it on guitar. For ten years I played the same three songs. I enjoyed myself. I absolutely nailed those songs. Didn't really improve though outside that very narrow definition.
I often get frustrated with practice. Biggest problem I have is staying organized and choosing a direction. If its not a song or lick that I like then I don't want to mess with it. I want to do what's fun. I really struggle to sit and look at tab and slowly pick note after note. It causes anxiety. I don't seem to learn in any natural progression. I could play banjo signal before I could play cripple creek. Ground speed before fireball mail. I can play more of Uncle Clooney than FMB. It would likely be different if I had people to play with but that's not going to happen. So I'm just going where my heart takes me even though its frustrating sometimes.
I find the most useful reflective practicing for me is positioning the chair in front of a full length mirror.
Seriously, I think one ought to practice the hard stuff as well as the easy stuff. The easy stuff warms up the fingers and helps you gain a sense of timing. The hard stuff is necessary because there's always more to learn, and that's the only way you're going to turn hard stuff into easy stuff.
The practice solution of practicing tough stuff assumes that the player wants to put in the hard work of getting or even wants to get better, if one takes up the banjo to have fun relax ,enjoy yourself ,be creative, then working overtime to correct or marginally improve your stuff may be counter productive to the goal of fun and relaxation,after all everyone reading this post could become a better banjo player if they worked for hours to improve their technique by correcting weaknesses, perhaps the drive for perfection ,perfection being impossible,but the drive for perfection leads to excellence, but having fun trumps excellence if that is your goal . I sometimes notice that at jams I’m concentrating so much on the chords and licks that I’m forgetting to have fun and just enjoy the act of making music, of course folks that want to play professionally may have a different mindset.
I've been getting into a lot of videos by Tommy Emmanual who is a very kind and gracious musician. I met him years ago when I was a brief sponsor of Steve Kaufman's Music Kamps (but in my ignorance really didn't know who he was then).
What strikes me in his videos is how gracious he is with his time, even with a rank beginner, in explaining practice techniques that he still uses today.
Here are some suggestions abut practicing given by Tommy Emmanual. There are tons of these videos by him, spending so much time with anyone who he finds himself with, as well as videos from all sorts of pros. But Tommy's videos have hit a very relevant note for me, so I thought I'd link to a few here in this thread, which seems spot on with what banjophobic is expressing ... mainly, that he has a specific goal in mind when he practices...
John, great post! I'm a guilty party here. Thank you for the smack up side the head. Moving forward, my practice sessions will be more focused on some things I've been avoiding, along with maintaining what I've learned so far. As always, you give great advice.
I have always agreed with the idea that unless what you are practicing presents a certain degree of difficulty, you aren't learning anything. My practice/playing session consists of -
1. Working on a very difficult tune - a long term project. Played slowly with intense concentration.
2. Learning new tunes and enhancements to tunes in my repertoire.
3. Then I play tunes in my playing repertoire. I keep a notepad handy and when I think something should be to to upgrade/change a tune, I write a note to myself. Playing all of my tunes reinforces my memory and physical playing skills. As I learn and develop playing skills, tunes are always changing. Often additional variations of tunes are developed. Having multiple variations of tunes helps when I am the only person taking a "break". I was also exposed to tunes I would never had discovered by myself. Playing 10 -12 hours a week with this person developed my playing by "leaps and bounds". I realized this when a person I considered a very good banjo/guitar/fiddle player turned to me and told me I was a better banjo player then he was. Back then when I wasn't working or doing household chores, I was in the basement playing my banjo.
One thing has hindered my development. Nobody to play with. Experience has taught me that playing with competent musicians has me work harder on backup. More originality in my playing. Decades ago when I learned to play banjo, I finally found a good guitarist/singer to play with.
When I play tunes, I have notation for new licks for new licks in front of me. I try inserting these licks in tunes. This helps up improve tunes, and by using the licks, use them without any conscious effort. That takes lots of playing time.
I'm thinking about what Tommy Emmanuel said about the metronome which is pretty much the same as what Tony Trischka said about a metronome and it occurs to me that I probably don't use mine enough and also that when I do, and I suspect I'm not alone here, it's mostly to see how quickly I can ramp up and play faster, instead of how I can play really clean, locked in notes at a slower tempo. That's the new challenge for me.
It's much easier for a beginner such as myself to be breaking new ground and deliberately practicing than someone already accomplished. For a beginner, learning and deliberate practice almost go hand in hand (though it's still possible to procrastinate.) For those more accomplished practice is a bit more difficult to define.
Is learning a new song the techniques of which you have already nailed really practising. Probably not, although it is still learning and will increase a repertoire.
Repeating the same stuff over with a deliberate intent to improve phrasing or note definition could be practicing but not really learning.
Even rote scales/exercises may or may not be practice depending on their difficulty and the intent or focus during them.
Take the game of darts as it's something refined to one simplish motion. An average Joe will merely be throwing darts at the board playing alone, whereas a professional practising will be intensely focussed on each throw. Same thing on the outside to look at, but actially completely different.
The practice solution of practicing tough stuff assumes that the player wants to put in the hard work of getting or even wants to get better, if one takes up the banjo to have fun relax ,enjoy yourself ,be creative, then working overtime to correct or marginally improve your stuff may be counter productive to the goal of fun and relaxation,after all everyone reading this post could become a better banjo player if they worked for hours to improve their technique by correcting weaknesses, perhaps the drive for perfection ,perfection being impossible,but the drive for perfection leads to excellence, but having fun trumps excellence if that is your goal . I sometimes notice that at jams I’m concentrating so much on the chords and licks that I’m forgetting to have fun and just enjoy the act of making music, of course folks that want to play professionally may have a different mindset.
Tommy
My post wasnt aimed at anyone who is satisfied with every aspect of their playing. Practicing doesn't have to be a 'chore', but maybe some folks see it that way I guess. For me, knowing I am improving and learning new things IS fun but again, not everyone thinks about these things the same way. If someone is having a blast relaxing and doing what they are doing i would be the last one to poopoo on it.
For those who don't mind the challenges of practice I am just pointing out a common sense approach here, that all.
I've been getting into a lot of videos by Tommy Emmanual who is a very kind and gracious musician. I met him years ago when I was a brief sponsor of Steve Kaufman's Music Kamps (but in my ignorance really didn't know who he was then).
What strikes me in his videos is how gracious he is with his time, even with a rank beginner, in explaining practice techniques that he still uses today.
Here are some suggestions abut practicing given by Tommy Emmanual. There are tons of these videos by him, spending so much time with anyone who he finds himself with, as well as videos from all sorts of pros. But Tommy's videos have hit a very relevant note for me, so I thought I'd link to a few here in this thread, which seems spot on with what banjophobic is expressing ... mainly, that he has a specific goal in mind when he practices...
Tommy is a great example of reflective practicing, thanks Frank. He also seems to be the guy who when he practices, enjoys it. Ive met him a few times, the first time at the Dadi Guitar Festival in France, about 15 years ago or so. A band i was with was touring Europe and we played intermission at the festival. Everyone was buzzing back stage about this "Emmanuel" guy. to be honest i wasn't familiar with him at all. He came in backstage where we were warming up and asked to play with us a bit. He commenced to play manzanita note for note and slay it,haha. He talked about how much he loved American flatpicking, like bluegrass and how he 'needed to practice it more'. I talked with him later as all the players who were involved in the festival were staying there, and my group also. tommy talked at length about his practice routine. It blew my mind, to say the least. hearing him play that night on stage completely fluipped me around in regards to what was possible on guitar. His advice about practice to me was something I never forgot.
I don't practice enough. But when I'm learning new tunes there are always those parts you can rip through, and other parts that are more difficult and sound kinda rough. It's a natural tendency to skip over the rough parts so you can get to the other stuff that you play just fine. But I will go back and work and those rough parts - sometimes just 2 or 3 notes - until I get them smooth. And if I still can't get them smooth, I'll change it to something a bit easier! It can be a lot of work, but like John I just get more satisfaction in the end from playing something well rather than something sloppy.
I don't practice enough. But when I'm learning new tunes there are always those parts you can rip through, and other parts that are more difficult and sound kinda rough. It's a natural tendency to skip over the rough parts so you can get to the other stuff that you play just fine. But I will go back and work and those rough parts - sometimes just 2 or 3 notes - until I get them smooth. And if I still can't get them smooth, I'll change it to something a bit easier! It can be a lot of work, but like John I just get more satisfaction in the end from playing something well rather than something sloppy.
I dont practice anymore like I SHOULD laurence, so this thread is for me as much as anyone,haha. I think skimming over tough parts is akin to playing stuff we are good at and avoiding the stuff we arent..human nature. But once i finally get something thats been tough for me to fall in place it makes me really feel like ive accomplished something.
I'm only a beginner.(At clawhammer... though we all practice)
But, slowing down and playing to a metronome I find makes the difficult areas stand out like a sore thumb. So much so that you want to work on them to bring everything to the same standard.
Join 'The Practice Group' to talk about the subject in depth.
Do you guys have trouble with timing slowing down if you don't practice regularly? I have to pick along with cds or metronome as part of my practice time.
I have never been disciplined in much of anything and practice is no exception. Currently I'm not in any group and the last effort at a group blasted a huge hole in my confidence which I'm still trying to recover from. I may start a thread about that because, while it's related to personal practice habits, band practice habits can be as liberating, or as inhibiting, as personal habits. And picking with the right musicians can make a huge difference.
But yes, I find that timing issues become pronounced in band situations, and are revealed to me when I record myself, but I find that when I play music with others, any one individual can throw things out of whack, and I've found it takes individual and group self-awareness in all moments, at all times. When things "click" with other musicians, no thought is required and timing is impeccable with no effort. I have enough recordings of myself in various group settings so that I know this is true. When things don't mesh so well, it's like dragging a mule kicking and honking and timing, among other things, suffers.
But, that is straying from this topic's subject ... so maybe I will begin another thread about Group Practice, and how to deal with confidence issues when others are not so self-aware ... and ego of others takes control (the Me Me Me Show, which drives me nuts). It gets in the way.
On second thought, I'll pass on starting that thread I mentioned. I don't want to feed the trolls.
Maybe banjophobic can pick up on that idea ... how band practice habits should also be reflective in nature, and have a purpose in mind, because they reflect in so many ways the themes that have been touched on here.
I'll join in a thread like that and try to not be so verbose.
This has been a good thread for me, it's reminded me of a few things, and I appreciate that.
Thats true just generally speaking,for feel good purposes. But in the context of this thread, 'regular' contact could be playing the same things you already are excellent at, over and over, ech time you practice. Practicing like this isnt going to help ione get better at those things they 'arent' good at. this is the point i was making here.
Do you guys have trouble with timing slowing down if you don't practice regularly? I have to pick along with cds or metronome as part of my practice time.
Im playing bout 70-80 gigs a year on average these days, so its not an issue for me. But one thing that is something i need to really do is just practice the things i want and know i need to get better at. These days with the gigs, my teaching lesson adn the repair shop, i find i just want to escape the banjo when im not having to play. I dont like feeling that way. My goal this winter is some serious 'me' time woodshedding.
Sounds like you want that full band sound to motivate your practice, which i completely get. Using a metronome is also an extremely useful tool lots of Bg players ignore or poopoo on.
I have never been disciplined in much of anything and practice is no exception. Currently I'm not in any group and the last effort at a group blasted a huge hole in my confidence which I'm still trying to recover from. I may start a thread about that because, while it's related to personal practice habits, band practice habits can be as liberating, or as inhibiting, as personal habits. And picking with the right musicians can make a huge difference.
But yes, I find that timing issues become pronounced in band situations, and are revealed to me when I record myself, but I find that when I play music with others, any one individual can throw things out of whack, and I've found it takes individual and group self-awareness in all moments, at all times. When things "click" with other musicians, no thought is required and timing is impeccable with no effort. I have enough recordings of myself in various group settings so that I know this is true. When things don't mesh so well, it's like dragging a mule kicking and honking and timing, among other things, suffers.
But, that is straying from this topic's subject ... so maybe I will begin another thread about Group Practice, and how to deal with confidence issues when others are not so self-aware ... and ego of others takes control (the Me Me Me Show, which drives me nuts). It gets in the way.
I'm taking Tommy Emmanuel's suggestions to heart.
Frank
what you said about band practice is exactly like personal practice. Lots of times a band practice isnt reflective of any particular goals. When i attend band practice i want goals in mind, not just mindless jamming. I want arrangements,determining set lists, harmony/lead vocals worked out, adding new songs, retiring some, band business stuff,etc to be worked on.
A band practice can be just as unproductive as each members personal practice if there isnt a desire to fix stuff thats 'wonky'.
Do you guys have trouble with timing slowing down if you don't practice regularly? I have to pick along with cds or metronome as part of my practice time.
Im playing bout 70-80 gigs a year on average these days, so its not an issue for me. But one thing that is something i need to really do is just practice the things i want and know i need to get better at. These days with the gigs, my teaching lesson adn the repair shop, i find i just want to escape the banjo when im not having to play. I dont like feeling that way. My goal this winter is some serious 'me' time woodshedding.
Sounds like you want that full band sound to motivate your practice, which i completely get. Using a metronome is also an extremely useful tool lots of Bg players ignore or poopoo on.
Ya, you're playing pretty frequently.I'm only playing 3-4 gigs a month these days, mostly in the spring and summer and fall. Winter is dead around here.
the majority of my gigs are late summer through the fall, typically. so by winter time ill have the time to woodshed. The issue for me is making myself get serious about practicing. Its probably a case of burnout by the years end but i know I need to woodshed.
This thread has made me face the fact that I’m guilty of some questionable practice habits recently.
My biggest issue (excuse) is time. I just don’t have a lot of free time (and sometimes energy) to practice right now. So the time that I do have, I tend to just work on songs, because that is what is the most fun to learn. They are usually new songs, and I have definitely been improving despite limited time picking, but I know I’m neglecting quite a few areas where I need work (backup, chording, scales, work with metronome, etc, etc).
I’m going to have think about how to better utilize the time that I have.
This thread has made me face the fact that I’m guilty of some questionable practice habits recently.
My biggest issue (excuse) is time. I just don’t have a lot of free time (and sometimes energy) to practice right now. So the time that I do have, I tend to just work on songs, because that is what is the most fun to learn. They are usually new songs, and I have definitely been improving despite limited time picking, but I know I’m neglecting quite a few areas where I need work (backup, chording, scales, work with metronome, etc, etc).
I’m going to have think about how to better utilize the time that I have.
Yep time is a big issue for most folks, me included. Maybe you can set aside some practices for those things, mixed in with the fun song practices.
I almost always practiced with a click track,drum machine or usual suspect.For me as of lately there is a beyond point that is also useful.
One is sometimes just playing, with no worry what so ever about the beat, on songs I am confident on about hitting the beats.I start getting a better grasp of note clarity,phrase clarity, and evenness (no rushed spots)
It is also good for me imo,to do the vids and watch them at differing times.
If something is being nailed and I desire to practice it,it is variation time for me
I don't put this forth as good advice,just the way I see it
Steve Davis- while I agree that lack of familiarity, or preparation, is one cause of lack of confidence, there are others. Shyness or personal insecurity can also cause problems even for the best-prepared. A big cause is lack of experience. And part of experience is falling on your face. Almost every beginner finds that the break that they worked on so hard at home, and thought they learned so well, falls apart the first time they try it at a jam. With experience you learn how to to avoid mistakes and how to recover from them. A useful practice technique is to practice picking a song up from somewhere in the middle instead of always starting at the beginning. Too many of my students cannot play a break unless they start from the beginning, which means in a jam if they miss a note or two they are sunk. Learn how to pick the song back up at a number of strategic points and even if you drop a whole phrase you won't blow the entire break.
It's amazing the amount of difference there is in being in total control at home then transferring that comfort to the stage. Being on stage needs to be practiced just like practicing one's instrument.
There is no 'practice' routine at home that can replace actually being on stage. for some players playing on stage a lot helps to diffuse nerves. Some others however, there will always be the nerves and jitters. Heck, famous entertainers have stated they are always very nervous performing, even after thousands of shows and many take medicines for the anxiety. The thread isnt about curing stage anxiety anyway, its about being more focused in your practices goes in terms of your playing skills. performing skill is a different topic.
I don’t know if it fits into “reflective practice” or not, but back when I was teaching (at one point, 40 private students a week), I worked to help each student develop “effective” practice by creating a “practice agenda” and using an inexpensive kitchen timer. The agenda varied somewhat, according to the practice time available and the needs of the student, but a generic example for an hour would be:
15 minutes current project (sonata, concerto, etc.)
10 minutes things already mastered
The numbers are merely representative. The timer is set for each segment. When the bell goes off, it means STOP! and go to the next task.
The purpose of that last segment is “to go out on a high note”, feeling good—to finish with something that the student can play well and feel good about.
quote:Originally posted by steve davisIt's amazing the amount of difference there is in being in total control at home then transferring that comfort to the stage. Being on stage needs to be practiced just like practicing ote's instrument.
Thats true just generally speaking,for feel good purposes. But in the context of this thread, 'regular' contact could be playing the same things you already are excellent at, over and over, ech time you practice. Practicing like this isnt going to help ione get better at those things they 'arent' good at. this is the point i was making here.
Any daily contact (unless playing outright mistakes) is important to keep the mind and hands familiar with their roles in timing and tone which keeps the road open to any type of focused practice.
Doug K - When I play all the tunes in my musical repertoire, I alternate between playing along with recorded versions I like, and "Band in a Box". There are benefits and drawbacks to each method. Playing along with recordings is educational but also can also be a "crutch". You aren't as aware of your playing problems. The BIAB rhythm tracks are just that - only rhythm tracks. It can improve your speed and develop steady tempo, but won't teach a person any melodic ideas. I hear my playing problems/mistakes when using BIAB.
Like I said, doing both things helps in different ways. For timing/speed/chord awareness, BIAB does the job. For hearing ideas, comparing your "breaks" to recorded material, working on backup playing along with recorded material works.
Thats true just generally speaking,for feel good purposes. But in the context of this thread, 'regular' contact could be playing the same things you already are excellent at, over and over, ech time you practice. Practicing like this isnt going to help ione get better at those things they 'arent' good at. this is the point i was making here.
Any daily contact (unless playing outright mistakes) is important to keep the mind and hands familiar with their roles in timing and tone which keeps the road open to any type of focused practice.
I haven't seen any evidence that reaching down for a minute to strum your banjo leads to focused practice. I do agree it's better to do that than not touch your banjo at all for days on end. But in terms of reflective, serious practice, the player has to make that happen by deciding to sit down and do it.
I agree that "directed practice" is vital for progress and improvement. I'm fortunate in that I put in an hour to hour and a half in the mornings for directed practice. Then, in the late afternoon I'll put in another hour or so just playing tunes "for fun". It works for me and keeps my interest high.
I don’t know if it fits into “reflective practice” or not, but back when I was teaching (at one point, 40 private students a week), I worked to help each student develop “effective” practice by creating a “practice agenda” and using an inexpensive kitchen timer. The agenda varied somewhat, according to the practice time available and the needs of the student, but a generic example for an hour would be:
15 minutes current project (sonata, concerto, etc.)
10 minutes things already mastered
The numbers are merely representative. The timer is set for each segment. When the bell goes off, it means STOP! and go to the next task.
The purpose of that last segment is “to go out on a high note”, feeling good—to finish with something that the student can play well and feel good about.
The idea that any contact with an instrument inevitably leads to reflective/deliberate practice is not hugely logical.
I played guitar regularly for twenty years. After the first few months I settled into playing the same stuff and rarely tackling anything new. The result was very very slow improvement.
Setting of SMART goals will trump mere instrument contact in motivation to reflective/deliberate practice every time.
