beezaboy - Posted - 12/02/2014:  06:24:42

Okay, thanks.  I put your #3 into list.

beezaboy - Posted - 12/02/2014:  06:46:36

Attached is our new Orpheum Serial Number list.  Now dated Dec. 2, 2014.

We have some new entries that are interesting.

I, myself, bought 17 fret tenor Orpheum #1 with serial number 1890.  It is our earliest tenor and our first 18XXX.

April 24, 1915 is first advertisement for Orpheum "tango banjo" - "tuned a 5th lower than regular mandolin" so this advertisement refers to a Tenor Banjo so there is a dating clue.  We also got a couple new real early 5-string numbers but no two or three digit numbers have appeared.  I believe that R&L did not start serial numbering Orpheum banjos until about 1912.

Anyway, attached is our new list.

tjmangum - Posted - 01/30/2015:  11:23:47

I'd like to add my Orpheum No. 1 Tenor 17 fret to the mix. I got this off of Ebay 4 or 5 years ago. Serial # 10216.

Terry

Edited by - tjmangum on 01/30/2015 11:24:39

 

beezaboy - Posted - 01/30/2015:  17:05:38

Terry - Thanks for your addition.  I put 10216 into list.  Looks like made circa 1920.

brunomathilda - Posted - 02/01/2015:  11:16:27

John.

I am looking for some infos  about the Brass Band,could you please contact me.

Thank you

tjmangum - Posted - 03/04/2015:  09:41:16

Here's another one for the list. Orpheum #2 Plectrum #14198. Picked this up recently.
Terry

 

 

beezaboy - Posted - 03/04/2015:  11:32:00

Terry - I put your Orpheum #2 plectrum banjo into our list.

skip sail - Posted - 03/04/2015:  14:22:48

And another

Plectrum, red and white tag

serial number 11178

for sale BTW

Edited by - skip sail on 03/04/2015 14:24:19

 

 

 

beezaboy - Posted - 03/04/2015:  18:13:52

Thanks, Skip.

snipejd - Posted - 03/10/2015:  20:02:09

hey I have a Rettberg and Lange Orpheum No 1 Serial number 4046, got a white label saying it's Rettberg and Lange from New York. 8 strings, 17 frets

can someone tell me about it? it's in rough shape and I need to sell it cause I'm moving - what's it worth?

j.a.davidson6@gmail.com

Edited by - snipejd on 03/10/2015 20:18:09

snipejd - Posted - 03/10/2015:  20:22:15

idk why it made that post so long sorry!
but j.a.davidson6@gmail.com if you can help

skip sail - Posted - 03/11/2015:  01:44:02

sounds like a banjo-mandolin. if so,and if in good condition,around $250-300

poor condition- depends how poor!

Edited by - skip sail on 03/11/2015 01:44:46

beezaboy - Posted - 03/11/2015:  03:13:28

Thank you.  I put Banjo Mandolin 4046 in our list.

drad dog - Posted - 03/15/2015:  19:40:04

Hi Players,
I'm mostly a guitar guy. I got my fathers banjo (a common theme I hear). It's an Orpheum #1, serial number 011052. I think it's a 5 string (4 strings and a drone) Rettberg and Lang. Its been in the family since 1962. The skin is broken so I wont' photograph it right now, unless someone wants to see it. Is it older than 1920? Worth much?
Thanks
DD

beezaboy - Posted - 03/16/2015:  04:51:56

DD - Sounds like your Orpheum is a 5-string open-back banjo with 4 long strings tuned at the peghead and a shorter 5th string tuned by a peg in the side of the neck.  It should have 22 frets.  The 5-string Orpheums are more sought after and more valuable these days than the 4-string varieties with only 17 frets.  The torn head, missing strings, missing tail piece and  bridge are no problem as all of these items can be replaced by someone with a working knowledge of banjos.  If you are going to sell the banjo take some photos and post a new thread here in in BHO's collector column asking for value opinions.  Once you decide on a value post your pictures and an ad in BHO classifieds.  If your price is reasonable a 5-string Orpheum will sell.

drad dog - Posted - 03/16/2015:  10:46:12

Any consensus on age range for this one?
Thx

beezaboy - Posted - 03/16/2015:  11:23:41

1920

garyed - Posted - 03/28/2015:  04:34:53

Just picked up an Orpheum Special guitar banjo #11820.White label with red writing with Bruno label on stick.14 1/8 rim and 2 inch nut width

Edited by - garyed on 03/28/2015 04:44:08

beezaboy - Posted - 03/28/2015:  08:20:35

garyed - Thanks for the addition to our serial number list.  I put your guitar banjo in the list.  Looks like it is only the fourth guitar banjo we have.

chas5strings - Posted - 04/04/2015:  08:16:16

Two Orpheum no.1s for your lists:-

8422 - 17 fret   red orpheum label on rim      C Bruno and Son on DS

371 - 22 fret   no labels but there are nail holes on the DS where there might have been one once.

I have a mando banjo somewhere. I'll give you that number when I find it. The instrument that is, not the number.

Edited by - chas5strings on 04/04/2015 08:19:33

beezaboy - Posted - 04/04/2015:  10:50:19

chas5strings - Thank you for the Orpheum additions to our list.

Something is amiss with 371.  We have never seen a 3-digit Orpheum serial number.  You don't say if 371 is a 5-string or a plectrum.  All of the Orpheums we have seen that were made by Rettberg & Lange or Wm. L. Lange had a plaque or tag affixed to the inside of the rim.  The early ones were black & white.  The later ones and the most common are red like your 8422.  Tack holes in the dowel are ambiguous.  They could be from the seller like your Bruno tag on 8422.  When Lange went out of business the Orpheum name was sold.  We have seen Orpheum branded banjos made by others, for example Kay.

chas5strings - Posted - 04/04/2015:  11:28:26

beezaboy

It's a plectrum.

there is no doubt in my mind that this is a Lange. The timber used is the same as my others, the perch pole matches the neck the inlays are correct even the tuners haven't been resited.

I will have another look under a strong light but I didn't see any holes in the rim where a label might have been. I wasn't specifically looking though.

I will get back to you. Maybe with photos.

chas5strings - Posted - 04/04/2015:  11:37:15

Nope, no sign of a label nailed on but the patent no. is there, in the same place as 8422.   Patent no 824888 it looks like.

beezaboy - Posted - 04/04/2015:  12:00:47

The plectrum banjo was "invented" in about 1915.  R&L began advertising their plectrum banjo in June 1918.  Like Vega, I suspect that R&L made some special order plectrum banjos before they became a part of R&L's regular line-up of banjo products.  I suspect that your plectrum was either a special ordered banjo or one made for an overseas market directed to a supplier in Europe and so in either case received a special serial number.  That is all I can think of in this case.

chas5strings - Posted - 04/07/2015:  07:19:34

I have examined 371 with a magnifying glass and light and I can see where a sliver of wood has been split/chipped off the dowel rod and the yoke neck fastener partially covers the ser. no.

So what we have is 1x371

Still no signs of a plaque on the inside of the rim but definately two pin holes on the DR.

Sorry to cause your head scratching. I'm still looking for the mando.

beezaboy - Posted - 04/07/2015:  07:57:16

I don't think it is going to be 1371 in the regular course of things.  Not a plectrum.

Look at our serial number list at the top of this page from Dec. 2014.

Edited by - beezaboy on 04/07/2015 07:58:57

chas5strings - Posted - 04/07/2015:  09:45:56

Nope. It's likely to be 1 x 371 where "x" stands for a missing digit ie the one that was sliced off?

I should have been a bit clearer in my previous post.

drad dog - Posted - 04/27/2015:  14:18:30

Anyone know about detachable backs for these? Wood and metal. Is that rare?

beezaboy - Posted - 04/27/2015:  17:02:10

No, not rare.  Aftermarket detachable resonators were available during the 1920's.

drad dog - Posted - 04/27/2015:  22:12:57

Theres one on ebay right now, a Lange with the back. The seller thinks it was from the 70s. I referred him here. He hasn't found the Serial # yet. Hope he will. It's a left handed one. Are those rare?

Austin Stovall - Posted - 05/07/2015:  21:34:16

Hello I would like to add my friends Orpheum 5 string serial#12330 to your list. It has a white Rettburg and Lang tag with Orpheum and made by in red. And a white C bruno and sons distributer tag on the dowel. I just added pictures on my hangout profile.

Edited by - Austin Stovall on 05/07/2015 21:37:06

beezaboy - Posted - 05/08/2015:  03:57:07

Austin - Thank you for telling us about #12330 and for the photos.  I put this 5-string in our list.  Looks like it probably was a "rare" 5-string in the midst of some tenor banjos.

Austin Stovall - Posted - 05/11/2015:  06:07:47

Your welcome this is the first original 5string I have seen in person. It is a cool banjo for sure even has what may be the original case and it was played very much had groves in the fretboard and all the finish is worn off the neck. The case looks like the words Midwest Hoedowner were stenciled on it at one time but has faded off.

beezaboy - Posted - 05/11/2015:  10:25:47

Was browsing a Jan 1915 The Cadenza and scanned this attached Orpheum Brass Band advertisement.  This was the first Brass Band design announced Sept 1914.  I don't think we have an example of this style Brass Band in our serial number list.  The Brass Band got a make-over in Sept 1916 and we have some of those.

Jan 1915 - Brass Band

 

 

 

fcware - Posted - 05/11/2015:  17:39:18

Thanks for keeping up this thread and trying to trace the history of these various Orpheum banjos. I've been meaning to post photos of one I've had for a while now, but I don't really know what use they'll be, since there's no serial number anywhere on the thing. Have you ever come across this problem before? The pot is stamped with the usual patent number, the dowel does not appear to be a replacement and I've used a mirror thinking maybe I missed seeing it when I replaced the head, but still ... no serial. I'm assuming it's from around the 'teens, though it seems you'd know better than anyone.

Also, given the apparently Farland had the parts for his extended neck 29-fret banjos made by R&L, I've sort of wondered if one begat or at least suggested the other, especially since I've seen some Orpheums with the same blank triple-ribboned headstocks that Farland's had (which I've often wondered if he may have even hand-lettered himself as they seem to vary widely.) I have examples of both, and the Farland neck is a bit wider and thicker than the Brass Band, which is nearly as narrow as a tenor neck and, as you know, overall very heavy. (I should add that I bought this Brass Band from John Bernunzio, who said it'd previously belonged to Eli Kaufman.)

Minutae of interest to only a few of us, but anyway! Thanks again for the exhaustive research.

 

Uncle Mike - Posted - 06/04/2015:  21:45:15

I inherited a Orpheum #3 banjo. I think it is a plectrum. I am looking forward to finding out the history on this little jewel! Thanks for such an informative forum. Mike

beezaboy - Posted - 06/05/2015:  03:00:33

Uncle Mike - Be sure to let us know the details about your #3.

drad dog - Posted - 06/05/2015:  14:33:06

ebay.com/itm/Orpheum-No-1-Banj...cfb504eb3

Can anyone comment on this? I think it's a twenties model. The ad says Book Value $600. But what book would he be looking at?
(I already emailed him about the age. Doesn't seem to want to know)

beezaboy - Posted - 06/05/2015:  16:04:06

Well, that banjo is very unusual.  You can study Orpheum fretboard inlay in google images and elsewhere.  The inlay on this banjo is not common.  The rim has a Wm. L. Lange tag.  Those were not started until 1922 IMO.  The neck center lamination is also not common for a traditional appearing Orpheum.  So, let's pretend it is an original Orpheum built by Lange but did not receive a serial number.  Perhaps it is a very late Orpheum ca 1926+ or so made when open back 5-string banjos were out of style.  The resonator is generally an aftermarket affair but who knows - Lange could have put one on (some other banjo companies did).  The "book" could have been Vintage Guitar Price Guide.

laguna21dc - Posted - 06/05/2015:  17:17:42

I have 3 orpheum banjos but I don't understand what the serial number is. One is a 10 14" with a black and white tag that reads made by Rettberg and Lang with a number 19 on the pot under the dowell stich hole. and a number 724333 under a patent stamp........another has no serial number on the pot but has the patent stamp and number 724738 and a red white and blue tag which reads Orpheum Rettberg and Lang 10 1/4" ....and another 11 1/4" pot which has the rede white and blue tag orpheum rettberg and lang and patent stamp and number 724833........the dowell stick has a number 8074 or 81074? and a Bruno &son inc  new york tag?.I have a few others but they are not easy to get to at the moment...Can you fill me in on the date of manufacture on these?

laguna21dc - Posted - 06/05/2015:  17:35:43

does anyone have a source for a plastic head for an orpheum 10 1/4 pot? ....I have been using a real skin head but I like the plastic ones better.........I am not quite sure what crown height is preferred on the arch top orpheums.  I think the head is actually a 10 3/16 but probably a 10 1/4 would work.

beezaboy - Posted - 06/05/2015:  17:39:26

Orpheum serial numbers are stamped on the dowel near the neck stabilizer (neck yoke) right in plain view. The number stamped on the rim is Farmer's patent number after which R&L fashioned the Orpheum tone ring.  We have been trying to date Orpheum banjos by serial number.  Attached is a hypothetical.

Orpheum #1 - Four String - Serial # 2040

 

 

 

laguna21dc - Posted - 06/05/2015:  17:57:37

I don't have the original dowell sticks for 2 of my banjos so I guess I will have to guess between 1920 to?

jb1828 - Posted - 06/09/2015:  15:15:21

Hi - As with so many others here, I inherited a Super Orpheum 1 with it's tuning key.   Please feel free to add serial # 17,263 to your list.  It's a Super Orpheum 1, with what may be the original Jos B. Rogers Jr. skin (I'm not sure if that is rare or not, but just thought I'd share).  With the exception of the Peghead losing some varnish, it's in surprisingly good shape!   



BTW - The amount I learned about this banjo from this string alone has told me more about it than I knew for the last 15 years I've owned it!  Thanks for putting this all together.  I'll post some pics if possible.  

jb1828 - Posted - 06/09/2015:  15:21:07

Posting pictures is simple enough (if you just follow the directions on the page - doh!) Here are the pics of my Super Orpheum...

Jim

 

beezaboy - Posted - 06/09/2015:  16:58:12

Thank you for Super Orpheum 17263.  Beautiful  banjo!  I put her in our list as a plectrum.  It would help our research if you could let us know if there is a "Wm. L. Lange" tag or plaque tacked to the inside of the rim.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 06/09/2015:  17:14:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by beezaboy

Well, that banjo is very unusual.  You can study Orpheum fretboard inlay in google images and elsewhere.  The inlay on this banjo is not common.  The rim has a Wm. L. Lange tag.  Those were not started until 1922 IMO.  The neck center lamination is also not common for a traditional appearing Orpheum.  So, let's pretend it is an original Orpheum built by Lange but did not receive a serial number.  Perhaps it is a very late Orpheum ca 1926+ or so made when open back 5-string banjos were out of style.  The resonator is generally an aftermarket affair but who knows - Lange could have put one on (some other banjo companies did).  The "book" could have been Vintage Guitar Price Guide.

---

That banjo looks to me like an Orpheum pot with a homemade lefty neck. The neck heel looks way too long.

jb1828 - Posted - 06/09/2015:  18:41:37

Yep - right above the Patent stamp - there is the white plaque: 

Orpheum

Made by

WM. L. LANGE

NEW YORK.

"LANGE - MADE" is also stamped on the dowel about two inches from the serial #

Thank you for also letting me know it is a plectrum... after researching the difference between the two, at 27" it is definitely a plectrum.

Jim

---

Originally posted by beezaboy

Thank you for Super Orpheum 17263.  Beautiful  banjo!  I put her in our list as a plectrum.  It would help our research if you could let us know if there is a "Wm. L. Lange" tag or plaque tacked to the inside of the rim.

---

beezaboy - Posted - 06/10/2015:  07:01:26

Jim - Thanks for the update.  The "Lange Made" dowel stamp is a surprise.  I've seen that stamp on Lange's budget models like the Banner Blue but I think unusual for a high quality Orpheum like yours.  I'm adding the "Lange Made" information to 27531's description.

George - I don't know about the heel but I am speculating that as the 1920's progressed the Orpheums began to take on some Paramount features and that may be why the heel doesn't look like Orpheum banjos from the teens.