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obxpix - Posted - 03/17/2011: 16:23:07
I know this is nit picky and has no chance of ever changing, but I would love to see the name change from Banjo Hangout Players "Union"- Specifically "Union"....I can't tell how many people I've had ask over the years when I wear one of my shirts what's a banjo "Union"....In today's climate, the word "union" is not seen in a very good light by many (including myself - which I personally think are part of what is ruining this country)....I know the BHOPU is not referring to it in that sense, but 99.9 of the public that sees it doesn't...and to boot, it doesn't make any sense...
Why not Banjo Hangout Players _______?
Nitpicky I know, but I am bored tonight!
EggerRidgeBoy - Posted - 03/17/2011: 16:40:01
I think the name is fine as it is.
As you note, it is not meant to describe an economic or political organization, and, unlike you, I haven't found many people who take it that way.
Furthermore, people have all sorts of opinions about the word "union", and about unions in general - many of which are very different from your view. I'm guessing that any further discussion will risk violating the BHO's no-politics rule.
Edited by - EggerRidgeBoy on 03/17/2011 16:43:18
mtnpckr - Posted - 03/17/2011: 16:51:18
As a matter of personal resolve, I will not join as long as its called union. I have stated this before, and I believe many other members might feel the same.
But its Eric's site and he makes the decisions.
To my thinking, the fact that further discussion might violate rules lends even more weight to the idea of discarding the word union.
Edited by - mtnpckr on 03/17/2011 16:56:03
spinley - Posted - 03/17/2011: 16:52:29
Member
supporter
Edited by - spinley on 03/17/2011 16:55:30
danielburdett - Posted - 03/17/2011: 16:58:16
I personally like the fact that children aren't forced into labor and that we have 8 hour work days and weekends. These things only came about because of the hated "unions".
greenbriar - Posted - 03/17/2011: 17:02:00
This is funny, I was going to say the same thing...
SPLogDog - Posted - 03/17/2011: 17:06:37
How about, "Group of Banjo Players who are willing to make sacrifices they realize are necessary as long as it doesn't infringe on their rights"? It might not fit that well on a t-shirt though.
plunka5 - Posted - 03/17/2011: 17:09:09
"Union generally means that two or more things are joined into one." This is the way I personally look at the Banjo Hangout Union. It is the way in which players of ALL types of banjos, styles, backgrounds join together to form an association of banjo players, banjo lovers, banjo collectors, banjo historians, banjo junkies, banjo lunatics, banjo flunkies, banjo builders, banjo breakers, banjo haters, banjo misfits, banjo malcontents, banjo molesters, banjo solicitors, banjo pilferers, banjo sellers, banjo buyers, banjo freaks, banjo geeks, banjo artists, banjo plunkers, banjo pickers, banjo frailers, banjo hammerers, banjo drop thumbers, banjo linguists, banjo personalities, banjo celebrities, banjo (this is for you JFB!:)) ephemera assemblers, banjo financiers, and banjo elderly, banjo adolescents, banjo youth, banjo infants, banjo toddlers, and banjo newborns! Yeah, it's all of those people and more that "hangout" here to unionize!
Life's far too short to worry bout a word...
Edited by - plunka5 on 03/17/2011 17:10:15
wb4yal - Posted - 03/17/2011: 17:12:44
Long Live the Banjo Players Union!
TCB - Posted - 03/17/2011: 17:18:49
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Bonuscup98 - Posted - 03/17/2011: 17:22:24
There is power in a union.
Edit: In fact, I was not a member, but now, just to spite all those opposed to this and any union, I am joining.
There is power in a tackhead, power in the tenor
A banjo in the hands of a worker
But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand
There is power in a Union
Edited by - Bonuscup98 on 03/17/2011 17:26:12
spinley - Posted - 03/17/2011: 17:31:05
This topic will not last long. Just a wild quess
dangibson - Posted - 03/17/2011: 17:53:44
Let's get back to music, shall we?
Dan Gibson, Storyteller/Banjoplayer
Dallas, TX; Burlington, NC
dangibson.net
blockader - Posted - 03/17/2011: 18:04:25
as a Wobbly and syndicalist, I am also more inclined to join with it being called a union. In fact, as soon as my zeppified goodtime sales and i have some extra money, i intend to do just that. a las barricadas.
KE - Posted - 03/17/2011: 18:07:16
quote:
Originally posted by obxpix
I know this is nit picky and has no chance of ever changing, but I would love to see the name change from Banjo Hangout Players "Union"- Specifically "Union"....I can't tell how many people I've had ask over the years when I wear one of my shirts what's a banjo "Union"....In today's climate, the word "union" is not seen in a very good light by many (including myself - which I personally think are part of what is ruining this country)....I know the BHOPU is not referring to it in that sense, but 99.9 of the public that sees it doesn't...and to boot, it doesn't make any sense...
Why not Banjo Hangout Players _______?
Nitpicky I know, but I am bored tonight!
Good lord yes, you are being nitpicky. If you're bored, try picking up a banjo.
cosmicbanjo - Posted - 03/17/2011: 18:28:13
I think it is a fair suggestion to change the name to something other than 'Union' While at one point it had a positive connotation, and brught about a lot of good change-- that is no longer the case in today's world.
I will not joing the Banjo Player's Union until the name is changed either...
If we do not want to have 'political' comments, etc on this forum, we should not invite them through the name of our supporters.
schlange - Posted - 03/17/2011: 18:35:06
It's a fair suggestion. I've heard it a few times over the past few years. If I heard it more, I might consider changing it--but I don't hear it much at all.
"Union" certainly is a loaded word for some folks, isn't it? Especially lately! I like it, personally. I like the "unity" thing.
danielburdett - Posted - 03/17/2011: 18:39:59
'Nuff said. Now, everyone go play it off.
wcstringuy32 - Posted - 03/17/2011: 18:42:49
I like the name and think there are more positives than negatives about it. Pete Seeger often sang about Joe Hill.....the old union days were rough and tumble and there are lots of great folk/banjo tunes about them.
Banjopkr - Posted - 03/17/2011: 18:47:24
How about calling it the Banjo Players Confederacy.
...and you have to show you can play Dixie before your allowed to join.
SPLogDog - Posted - 03/17/2011: 18:52:08
quote:
Originally posted by Banjopkr
How about calling it the Banjo Players Confederacy.
...and you have to show you can play Dixie before your allowed to join.
And soon after comes the "War of Mandolin Cafe Aggression."
davidtoc - Posted - 03/18/2011: 11:07:26
quote:
Originally posted by SPLogDog
And soon after comes the "War of Mandolin Cafe Aggression."
HAHA! Thanks. You totally just made me laugh out loud and everyone in the computer lab turned to look at me.
fesso - Posted - 03/18/2011: 12:05:11
Silly. I am proud of my Banjo Union TShirt... And now
I am gonna go play my Machine that surrounds hate and forces it to surrender.
ramjo - Posted - 03/18/2011: 12:07:42
How about you just contribute $20 to the Hangout because it would be helpful to the Hangout and encourage Eric to continue improvements that make it ever-better. You don't have to buy a t-shirt or put a sticker on your case or even tell anyone. You'd just be paying your share.
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 03/18/2011: 21:57:33
Are you suggesting changing the name of the United States? We all live in a Union of states. Weddings are Unions. Mergers are Unions. I used to buy my groceries at the Grand Union Supermarket and took my trains from Union Station. I also used to read the Times-Union - the most anti-Union newspaper ever published.
I didn't particularly care what BHO membership was called, but if those guys who cannot take the time to look up the definitions of words manage to get the name changed now, I won't be sending in my money again.
KE - Posted - 03/18/2011: 22:34:10
If it really bothers anybody, you can do as I did and take some White-Out to the offending article.
dmiller - Posted - 03/19/2011: 00:03:01
quote:
Originally posted by schlange
It's a fair suggestion. I've heard it a few times over the past few years. If I heard it more, I might consider changing it--but I don't hear it much at all.
"Union" certainly is a loaded word for some folks, isn't it? Especially lately! I like it, personally. I like the "unity" thing.
Banjo Mafia suggests exactly the same thing. Just a "thot" for your consideration, eh?
GerryH - Posted - 03/19/2011: 04:53:21
As Pete Seeger likes to sing "I'm sticking with the Union."
obxpix - Posted - 03/19/2011: 05:45:40
Whoa!!! I'm getting out the whiteout now!! My daughter's nickname is Banjo Onion, because her head was slick like an onion and I had pics with her holding my banjo!!
As I said before, yeah, I was bored...it's just an IMO topic...no big deal...
quote:
Originally posted by KE
If it really bothers anybody, you can do as I did and take some White-Out to the offending article.
Don Borchelt - Posted - 03/19/2011: 07:44:52
obxpix wrote: "I can't tell how many people I've had ask over the years when I wear one of my shirts what's a banjo "Union"....In today's climate, the word "union" is not seen in a very good light by many (including myself..."
Oh, please. Whose being "politically correct" now?
danielburdett - Posted - 03/19/2011: 08:18:18
quote:
Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb
Are you suggesting changing the name of the United States? We all live in a Union of states. Weddings are Unions. Mergers are Unions. I used to buy my groceries at the Grand Union Supermarket and took my trains from Union Station. I also used to read the Times-Union - the most anti-Union newspaper ever published.
I didn't particularly care what BHO membership was called, but if those guys who cannot take the time to look up the definitions of words manage to get the name changed now, I won't be sending in my money again.
I completely agree. It is only a small percentage of the usage of the word that is supposedly an awful thing.
ZEPP - Posted - 03/19/2011: 09:48:07
Well, I for one, will not wear any of my BHO shirts!
It has nothing to do with BHO or Unions or even onions, but I don't wear shirts without pockets. FSM knows I've tried, but I get tired of throwing my pen and phone on the floor every few minutes...
My wife proudly wears my BHO shirts, BTW.
Cheers,
ZEPP
gdoc - Posted - 03/19/2011: 09:54:03
If Eric changes the name, our old stickers and T-shirts will become collector items like the 1934 Gibson! I have a set of un-molested stickers I'm willing to sell for the right price!
Personaly, I think it's a good name. The only imporvemet I could possibly see would be to put the word "international" on it. After all, we do encompus the Globe.
Eric! Spell check please!
bobbybanjo - Posted - 03/19/2011: 09:56:35
Union has a negative connotation for many people.
To most people the term "Players Union" means that it is a labor union, despite what the other meanings of the word "Union" are.
Since the "Players Union" is not a labor union or even any formal club or other entity, there is no point to continuing the use of this misleading term. The obvious reason for existence is to generate revenue by the sale of T Shirts and there are many other names that could do a much better job of selling tshirts than saddling it with a term that many consider negative and indicative of people who engage in boycots, strongarm tactics and criminal activity.
Don Borchelt - Posted - 03/19/2011: 10:06:34
Who are you all trying to kid? If Eric changes the name now, to me it would in fact be a major political statement by the BHO, whether intended or not, one that I could not in good conscience ignore. That step would be the "deal breaker" for me.
bobbybanjo - Posted - 03/19/2011: 10:43:20
quote:
Originally posted by Don Borchelt
Who are you all trying to kid? If Eric changes the name now, to me it would in fact be a major political statement by the BHO, whether intended or not, one that I could not in good conscience ignore. That step would be the "deal breaker" for me.
Lots of Drama there, Don!
It seems to me that it might just be a simple marketing decision, and an obvious one at that!
minstrelmike - Posted - 03/19/2011: 10:50:03
Ain't nothing easy when dealing with groups of people.
Remember this discussion next time you read news about a company getting slammed for its product name then getting slammed by others for changing it and 'caving in.'
Castania - Posted - 03/19/2011: 11:13:53
Please . . . leave it as is. I used my last T-Shirt as a "flag" of sorts at Clifftop to invite other BHO members to my campsite . . . and it worked! Now the wife uses it as sleep-wear. (She's sexy that way.) My son got the most recent t-shirt, because I don't wear t-shirts . . . ever . . . but I gladly buy them for people who do!
As far as "union" goes . . . NC is known as a non-union state, but I personally have no problem with workers (or any other groups) having rights, individually or collectively . . . seems to me that our progress toward recognizing the rights of others is a remarkable testimony to human beings learning to live together. [Now, I hear John Lennon . . .]
Geesh, "banjo" has a connotation all its own -- not to us -- but to others . . . and we're not trying change the name of the instrument! Point is: if "union" has a bad connotation for some, perhaps "Banjo Union" will assuage that a bit. Just leave it be; can't please everyone.
Ken
"If you like music, well, this is like music" (Stew Schneider, Autoharp Player, Ashland, KY).
troglodave - Posted - 03/19/2011: 12:16:46
Unions seem to have a negative connotation to those who cannot or do not wish to remember the origin of unions. Like any other system, they can become corrupted but, if not for unions, musicians would still be making little while promoters made good money. Coal miners would still be working long hours under dangerous conditions while being beholden to the "company town" created by the owners.
As it stands, many businesses are still more interested in outsourcing jobs to foreign workers than paying a decent wage locally. You can blame that on the unions if you want to, but I fault those that continue to put profits over the lives of their workers. The bottom line is that many CEOs and business owners would rather look out for their best interests, at the cost of the worker. At that point, the workers must look out for themselves.
There is no doubt that it is a complex issue. I am fortunate enough that, after many years in my industry, I work for a company that understands that success is based on employees who are willing to go the extra mile to make the company strong, and that an enormous part of that is providing a working environment that allows the workers to have a quality of life that keeps them happy and has benefit for them. In my position, I work with many subcontractors that are members of a union within their line of work. With the rare exception, they are easy to work with and provide excellent quality, as the employees are well trained, have a good attitude towards their company, and are satisfied with what they do and the pay and benefits that they receive for doing it.
Again, I am not stating that all unions are perfect and that there are not unions out there that have become self-serving to the point that they are no longer benefiting their workers, their employers, or their industry. Any political system, and unions are a political system, is capable of succumbing to corruption. My only point is that the term "union" should not instantly bring to mind a negative connotation, and that I hope people will take the time to remember what a union is, why they were created and the benefits that they have provided to our way of life.
Hopefully I haven't offended anyone, and perhaps I have, just maybe, taken some of the negative sting away from the term. Thanks for reading!
windbreaker - Posted - 03/19/2011: 12:33:02
I wouldn't belong to any union that would have someone like me as a member unless I could march around with silly signs, shout incomprehensible slogans, sing nonsensical songs and act like a spoiled child if I don't get my way.
danielburdett - Posted - 03/19/2011: 13:37:13
quote:
Originally posted by bobbybanjo
Union has a negative connotation for many people.
To most people the term "Players Union" means that it is a labor union, despite what the other meanings of the word "Union" are.
Since the "Players Union" is not a labor union or even any formal club or other entity, there is no point to continuing the use of this misleading term. The obvious reason for existence is to generate revenue by the sale of T Shirts and there are many other names that could do a much better job of selling tshirts than saddling it with a term that many consider negative and indicative of people who engage in boycots, strongarm tactics and criminal activity.
I would think that the term "Players Union" would mean "a group of people who play the banjo" to most people. If it were the "Banjo Hangout Labor Union" I could see your point, but it doesn't. There is a big difference between a "Players Union" and a "Labor Union". If you, or anyone else, want to try to change the meaning of words then that is your problem, not the rest of ours. Also, how is this not a "Formal Club"? Would we need to have formal meetings to satisfy you of our existence as a group of people interested in the same thing?
Edited by - danielburdett on 03/19/2011 13:39:36
bobbybanjo - Posted - 03/19/2011: 14:40:32
quote:
Originally posted by danielburdett
quote:
Originally posted by bobbybanjo
Union has a negative connotation for many people.
To most people the term "Players Union" means that it is a labor union, despite what the other meanings of the word "Union" are.
Since the "Players Union" is not a labor union or even any formal club or other entity, there is no point to continuing the use of this misleading term. The obvious reason for existence is to generate revenue by the sale of T Shirts and there are many other names that could do a much better job of selling tshirts than saddling it with a term that many consider negative and indicative of people who engage in boycots, strongarm tactics and criminal activity.
I would think that the term "Players Union" would mean "a group of people who play the banjo" to most people. If it were the "Banjo Hangout Labor Union" I could see your point, but it doesn't. There is a big difference between a "Players Union" and a "Labor Union". If you, or anyone else, want to try to change the meaning of words then that is your problem, not the rest of ours. Also, how is this not a "Formal Club"? Would we need to have formal meetings to satisfy you of our existence as a group of people interested in the same thing?
Dan, we can see that this subject seems to upset you.
By all means, wear whatever shirt you want, even the one with "union" on it. Interpret the words however you want. I am simply pointing out that when most people see a shirt with a name followed by the words "Union" the natural assumption is that it refers to a labor union and there are a lot of people who feel that labor unions are comprised of lazy people who always want more money and benefits for less work and labor management who break peoples knees if they oppose unions. If people believe that then that's how you will be judged if you are wearing a shirt that says "Union". I am certainly not saying that these interpretations are correct or that you are a lazy person who always something for nothing, just that some people feel that way about unions. So what's the point of wearing a shirt that is going to stimulate that kind of feeling in some other people? To me, it just doesn't make any sense and a different name would sell more shirts and would not stimulate negative feelings in other people.
As far as I am concerned there are few enough people in the world who appreciate banjo that I wouldn't want to put any of them off by associating banjos and unions and I think that there are a significant number of people who simply do not want to imply that they are associated with any kind of union, even by implication by wearing an imprinted shirt. It just seems to me to be a poor choice of name with no upside benefit and an obviously significant downside.
Wouldn't Banjo Players Association be a reasonable alternative, and without the negative connotations of the word "Union"?
danielburdett - Posted - 03/19/2011: 15:25:10
I guess my problem is that people do have this negative association with the word union. While there may be examples of this being justified, I do not believe that what happens in part warrants such a reaction to the whole. I am not one to shy away from situations where people make judgements based on partial or ill-informed information. I think that such people should be educated. Changing the name would be fine, but that wouldn't address the problem. The problem is as you stated, that people feel this way about unions. I am not in a union (I live in North Carolina where they are illegal). I don't wear my shirt that I bought last year, not because I don't like the word "union", but because I don't like the shirt. This year I even renewed my membership without getting a shirt. Now that I know that you get such a reaction to the shirt then I should start wearing it more so that I can find out and inform people's opinions about workers rights.
Now, as far as the cases of people being lazy and having their management break knees, of course I'm not in favor of that. Have some unions gotten to be ridiculous, yes, but that is the case with almost everything in todays world. Extremes are no good. In the personal or political realm. So do we let the few extremes inform our decision about the rest of unions? I would hope not, but that's only my opinion.
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/19/2011: 15:34:10
Banjo Pickers of the World, Untie Unite!
I've been lazy about joining before, but this has convinced me.
Edited by - Bisbonian on 03/19/2011 15:41:10
bobbybanjo - Posted - 03/19/2011: 16:45:04
quote:
Originally posted by Bisbonian
Banjo Pickers of the World, Untie Unite!
I've been lazy about joining before, but this has convinced me.
That was easy! Wanna buy a bridge?
Bonuscup98 - Posted - 03/19/2011: 17:27:47
As noted above, I joined the union as a protest against any who might speak ill of this or any union. However, I'm offended that any body would confuse a member of a labor union on strike for a petulant child. Get a grip. The act of struggling together made this country what it is. 56 people signed that open letter to King George. There are 536 members of Congress. There are 300 million Americans. The implication that we should all be left to founder is nonsense. We work together, or we fail. A union is an extension of that sentiment. We, each and every one of us, act to bring a little bit of legitimacy to the Banjo. "Hey, can you play Deliverance?" Snicker, snicker. Shut ... up, .... That what I think. That usually what I end up saying.
If you walk around and people accuse you of being in a union, you need new friends. If you are also offended, you need a new you. Simply say to them, and remind yourself, that it is a fraternal (and sororal) organization dedicated to talking about banjos.
Then show them where to shove their dueling banjo.
Edited by - Bill Rogers on 03/20/2011 10:38:16
bobbybanjo - Posted - 03/19/2011: 17:31:32
quote:
Originally posted by Bonuscup98
If you walk around and people accuse you of being in a union, you need new friends.
There are some that say you need a new shirt!
kdstag - Posted - 03/19/2011: 21:32:20
I'll take a side of freedom fries with my Banjo Hangout Players Association T-shirt.
Edited by - kdstag on 03/19/2011 21:35:44
Sultans of Claw - Posted - 03/20/2011: 04:42:44
quote:
Originally posted by bobbybanjo
Union has a negative connotation for many people.
[
While "players" are universally admired and revered, as is the "banjo".
drew-gurbach - Posted - 03/20/2011: 12:53:48
I like it. Dont change. As a member I feel that I'm in "unity" with other banjoist throughout the country and the world.
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