People who want perfection from vaccines won’t find it. They will find better odds of prevention or a milder illness. … In a very different situation. I’m certain no one who was bitten by a rabid (or likely rabid) animal is going to turn down the rabies vaccine.

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Originally posted by Alex Z

One of the major benefits is the reduction of the severity of the disease if one catches it -- much less likely to require hospitalization, or be on a respirator, or die.  

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And, in addition, both flu & covid vaccines have been shown to reduce the risk of a (fatal and nonfatal) heart attack.

Not being vaccinated significantly increases the chance that you contribute considerably to the wealth of your cardiologist. That is, if you survive the initial transport to the cath lab of course.

dV, cardiologist

I was just thinking about getting a flu shot and… I got a strong flu… so I’m making my protection by myself !

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Originally posted by Dean T

Another veteran (retired) who got every military vaccine known to humanity, including anthrax. I retired right as COVID hit. I got the jab 4 times right on schedule voluntarily. About a week after the 4th one, I got sicker than I’ve ever been. Long story short, I tested positive for COVID. WTF!!??! I was pissed, disillusioned, and no longer trust any of that crap. No more for me, ever. It’s been over 4 years now, and I’ve been healthier than I’ve been in years.

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It takes at least a week for the immune system to fully kick in after any vaccine. Possibly even longer if you're older.  You were almost certainly infected before getting the shot, since it can take a good week or so after infection before the virus begins to provoke symptoms. 

Vaccines don't prevent infection, they help train your immune system to recognize the threat and respond accordingly, minimizing and often eliminating the infection before it can cause symptoms. Given the severity of your symptoms, and your age, the fact that you were vaccinated (previously) probably means you're still alive to moan about it.

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Originally posted by banjonz

I am curious as to why they would need to draw blood for those shots? I don't take the flu shots but during cCvid I got three. No blood drawn. Just needle into the top of the arm muscle.

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The blood was drawn because of my ankles swelling.They have adjusted my furosemide prescription,but want to keep track of my blood pressure.The blood test will tell them if there is a heart connection to the swelling.

Concerning getting my medical from the VA that came into existence right after my first brain surgery while outside of VA care and which I paid for.

A VA/social security person put me in touch with TOGUS and I became covered by them after an in-person appointment.

I have an appointment with Jamaica Plain next Monday.The hardest part of that is getting to the shuttle at TOGUS by 6am.It's a 60 mile drive for me.

That's why I cherish any local appointments I can get.

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Originally posted by banjopaolo

I was just thinking about getting a flu shot and… I got a strong flu… so I’m making my protection by myself !

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Now yer talkin', Paolo!   I'm led to believe that an integral part of dietary supplements* being effective is the belief that they're effective.  So, naturally (?) I wonder if that same process could be used to make a sugar pill an effective vaccine.  Looks like you're halfway there.  

* and quite a bit of OTC stuff, in my experience. 

I like to believe whatever my VA doctors tell me.
They keep proving to me that I should.
I feel good nearly all the time .
Blood pressure 113 over 79.

I think there's a pneumonia vaccine,too.

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Originally posted by steve davis

I think there's a pneumonia vaccine,too.

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Yep. Got that too 

All of life is ah risk..

Pick yer poison...

Geez Al, that's ^^ a timely/apropos/?  post. 

[For a few days I've been wasting time on Facebook trying to get people thinking that MAiD needn't be "my way or the highway."]

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Originally posted by Owen

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Originally posted by banjopaolo

I was just thinking about getting a flu shot and… I got a strong flu… so I’m making my protection by myself !

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Now yer talkin', Paolo!   I'm led to believe that an integral part of dietary supplements* being effective is the belief that they're effective.  So, naturally (?) I wonder if that same process could be used to make a sugar pill an effective vaccine.  Looks like you're halfway there.  

* and quite a bit of OTC stuff, in my experience. 

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Balderdash,,,a sugar pill will not give the "believer" any confidence in one's beliefs. One must take a supplement, vaccine, or other treatments that have shown positive results; then trust and believe they'll work. One's mental state has a lot to do with one's health. Absurdity runs shallow in my world. 

There have been plenty of medical experiments regarding the comparative effects of a drug and a placebo vs no treatment, where the patients are told that the placebo is the drug, that show that in some situations -- not all, but at least statistically significant -- the placebo has an effect on the ailment.   

There even have been experiments of "sham surgery," where patients think they have undergone the actual surgery, where the sham intervention produces the same improvments as the actual surgery.  Arthroscopic surgery on a degenerative knee  is an example.

Not much of this goes on in the U.S. anymore, because of ethical concerns.  

This is not just "the power of positive thinking" -- that if you force yourself strongly enough to believe something works, then it will.  Rather, it involves the interactions of the brain with the other systems of the body, and not a lot is clearly understood at present.  

Can we get from a sugar pill to a Covid vaccine?  Does not appear so.  Can we get from a sugar pill to a reduction of lactose intolerance?  Already there is evidence.

I'm still getting all the vaccines, and at the same time being careful because the vaccines reduce the chances of getting sick, and expecially getting very sick, but not necessarily to zero, and that information is useful.

Chuck, it's the "have shown positive results" [or possibly, more accurately, a lack of] that trips me up.

Maybe "mental state" could explain something I was just wondering aloud about with my wife earlier this aft.  The surgeries I had years ago were almost invariably very successful.  In the last 8 or 10 years, with a couple of notable exceptions,  the rsults have been  m-u-c-h  less impressive.  I dunno what might have transpired to reduce my confidence or believer status, or done a number on my "mental state" .... unless it was disappointing results.  [Chicken/egg ???]

Edit: Alex, I've had arthroscopic clean-out of ebows and knees.  In that my knees don't catch/slip/clink/??*  after clean-out like they did before I figure the removal of the extraneuos matter/gristle is likely responsible, but .... ????  I had a consult with a nerve specialist a few weeks back about elbow pain .... one of his commnets was to the effect that, "Of course surgeons see surgery as the answer!" [Fwiw, he didn't have any answers either....  but I'm not throwing in the towel on that just yet.  ]

* dunno just what the proper descriptive words are, but it's a specific, actual "click"/impingement/?? ... not just a general improvement in how it "feels." 

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

I don't get the covids as I take a daily ivermectin that I wash down with colloidal silver while getting stabbed with pins. I don't trust "the jab".

However, I do inject peptides that I get off of a website (for personal research, of course).

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But you skipped the bleach and shining UV light down your throat?

hardly a comprehensive approach. 

Oh, you shine the UV light down your throat!

Sure, the surgeries work. I've had a few myself, and am thankful for the life-changing improvements. 
 

Yet we're not talking "always" or "never," or 100% or 0%.  Rather, statitically significant, indicating something systematic may be going on.   The mystery is not why the actual surgery may not have the desired result in 100% of the cases, but rather how in the world does the sham surgery  achieve the desired result in so many cases.  Medical and neuro scientists don't understand this yet. 
 

For me, I'll take the vaccines and do the surgery.  There's only one of me, and an equivalent future statistical outcome doesn't mean much on its own for making a decision now. 

I got a flu shot about a month ago, and a few weeks later I came down with a sore throat and I felt terrible. My wife thought it might be covid and she couldn't find any test kits at the pharmacy, they suggested urgent care. So I went in and was whining about getting the flu two weeks after I got a flu shot, but tests came back it was just a bad cold. I had to eat a little crow over that one.

I was on chemotherapy during the last half of the Covid plague , , i still took the flu and covid vaccines with no negative effects. I had the flu annually all my life - high temperature, in bed for 3 days - but i finally started getting flu shots about 12 years ago and nary a flu epiisode has occurred.

BG, I suspect most of us Joe Schmucks are pretty slack [uninformed?] w.r.t. the specifics of respiratory tract

infections.

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I mentioned to one of our daughters that we thought the flu shots reduced the incidence and/or severity since we started the annual ritual. She asked how I/we knew it was a flu virus.  I had/have no answer.

I had flu once—it whacks you as no cold does. Fever spikes breathing problems and total enervation. Recovery takes time; you can’t simply resume normal activity.

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Originally posted by Dean T

About a week after the 4th one, I got sicker than I’ve ever been. Long story short, I tested positive for COVID. WTF!!??! 

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Well, you didn't die. So maybe the vaccination accomplished something.

Also, the incubation period for COVID, from exposure to symptoms, is about 5 to 6 days. And while a fourth shot (second booster?) begins to offer some protection right away, peak protection starts around 10 to 12 days later.

The first time I got covid, I think I was exposed the same day I got the shot.

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

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Originally posted by Dean T

About a week after the 4th one, I got sicker than I’ve ever been. Long story short, I tested positive for COVID. WTF!!??! 

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Well, you didn't die. So maybe the vaccination accomplished something.

Also, the incubation period for COVID, from exposure to symptoms, is about 5 to 6 days. And while a fourth shot (second booster?) begins to offer some protection right away, peak protection starts around 10 to 12 days later.

The first time I got covid, I think I was exposed the same day I got the shot.

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Does anyone find it interesting that nearly 100,000 more people in America died the year after the Covid vaccine became available than the year before? 

I'm no statistician, but Google AI tells me that typically there are 3 to 3.3 million deaths annually in the US.  My limited understanding is that's a range of 300,000, so the 100,000 difference doesn't appear to be out of line.  I expect that if I'm wrong [and maybe even if I'm right?] I'll be corrected. 

Some say that folks forgot about flu shots during covid and it took out a lot of old people. There’s also suggestions that the stress of overturned living conditions ran down immune systems. But one can also say how many more than the 100,000 would have died if there was no vaccine?