The classic comma use illustration is “Eats shoots and leaves.” for a wild animal, vs. “Eats, shoots and leaves.” for a gunslinger.

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Originally posted by Dean T

I have hundreds of people in my circle of life. Marathon runners, gym fitness people, church people, music people, animal rescue people, folks I served with I keep up with, etc. During the first two years of COVID, it was very evident that the folks I knew who died, and got deathly sick, were older, existing condition, less fit, less healthy lifestyle people. COVID was pretty much a nothing burger for the younger, fitter, healthier folks. Getting the jab or not didn’t seem to make any difference. Which is why I elected to quit getting it, after getting so freaking sick after jab #4. I should also add that in the subsequent 4 years, I’ve tested positive for COVID twice, and it was noting more than a mild sore throat, and annoying sniffles. I didn’t even miss my daily running. I’m not a pro or anti vaxer, or conspiracy nut. I just use my own power of observation, and make my choices. And I could care less what other folks do, one way or the other.

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So how many of those older, weaker, less fit people did you infect ?

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Originally posted by AndrewD

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Originally posted by Dean T

I have hundreds of people in my circle of life. Marathon runners, gym fitness people, church people, music people, animal rescue people, folks I served with I keep up with, etc. During the first two years of COVID, it was very evident that the folks I knew who died, and got deathly sick, were older, existing condition, less fit, less healthy lifestyle people. COVID was pretty much a nothing burger for the younger, fitter, healthier folks. Getting the jab or not didn’t seem to make any difference. Which is why I elected to quit getting it, after getting so freaking sick after jab #4. I should also add that in the subsequent 4 years, I’ve tested positive for COVID twice, and it was noting more than a mild sore throat, and annoying sniffles. I didn’t even miss my daily running. I’m not a pro or anti vaxer, or conspiracy nut. I just use my own power of observation, and make my choices. And I could care less what other folks do, one way or the other.

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So how many of those older, weaker, less fit people did you infect ?

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Me guess...

Zero...

I think it has a lot to do with the person, regardless of age or health. My son and his wife both got shots and no reaction. My daughter got one shot and it sent her to the ER. I've had 3 but no more.

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Originally posted

So how many of those older, weaker, less fit people did you infect ?

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That's actually a great question. Since it eventually came out that the vaccine didn't prevent contracting, or transmitting the disease, and only "supposedly" (as I found out by actual experience) reduced the severity when you contracted it, and became less and less effective as the variants mutated... I gave up on the whole thing after two years of the shots. So, to answer your question, the jab didn't really matter, and folks were infecting other folks regardless. 

As the recent measles outbreaks show, mass vaccination (or its absence) has an effect. I continue to get all recommended shots; I have had neither the illnesses they are for nor any untoward reactions.

There’s one i wouldn’t wish on anyone - shingles. A friend had it and it was brutal.

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Originally posted by chuckv97

There’s one i wouldn’t wish on anyone - shingles. A friend had it and it was brutal.

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I've had them twice.... once when I was in my 30s and there was no medicine for them, just grin and bear it.   Had it again in 2012 and at least there was medication that made it not quite so bad.

"Since it eventually came out that the vaccine didn't prevent contracting, or transmitting the disease . . . "

This is just a debate technique -- assert something without proof of fact that supports a position, then thereafter treat it as a fact to support the position.

C'mon.  We can do better than this in this discussion, if we want to have an exchange of information, other than a voting contest of points of view.

A regular spot on TV for the benefits of shots would help.
It would be done by someone that we love and trust.

Do we love or trust anyone,anymore?

P.S.
Polio is in danger of revisiting us.
A little common sense goes a long way.
Do we still have common sense?

The medical professionals and the pharmaceutical industries have destroyed trust for millions and it will take years to recover, if in fact they ever will. That trust had been built up, by parents and by schools over lifetimes, and then squandered in about two years.

I expect others will see it differently, but I'd add [some] politicians to your ^^ list bill-e.

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Originally posted by banjo bill-e

The medical professionals and the pharmaceutical industries have destroyed trust for millions and it will take years to recover, if in fact they ever will. That trust had been built up, by parents and by schools over lifetimes, and then squandered in about two years.

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The "influencers", charlatans, quacks, supplement sellers, and conspiracy perpetuators have caused much of this distrust for personal profit. 

Anti-intellectualism has eroded people to the point where they cannot apply basic logic and critical thinking.  Folks constantly fall for the appeal to nature fallacy.  They claim "Big Pharma" is out to get them while gobbling down fist fulls of "supplements" and injecting grey market "peptides". 

Meanwhile, dangerous and highly addictive drugs are sold as "supplements" in that unregulated mess of snakeoil and scams. (look up kratom)

We live in the dumbest times. 

Joel, I accept that a significant amount of distrust comes from those you mention, but my trust has been shaken mostly by charlatans (?) such as:

- Brent Roussin, MD - Manitoba's Chief Officer of Public Health.

- Manitoba Premier Brian Pallister

- Dr. Faucci

- Other online influencers [IIRC, one was The Saskatchewanderer] paid obscene amounts to "convince" people who lived through the Polio epidemic and have routinely supported/received vaccinations that vaccination is indeed good.   Not to mention governments paying people to get vaccinated??

- Some doc or other who advised us on CBC TV that, " If you don't get vaccinated, the virus will find you and you will die."

Add in the fact (?) that masks catch exhaled Covid virus but not inhaled Covid virus and that Corsi-Rosenthal boxes are 100% effective [according to one of the supposed "good guys"..... didn't keep track of his name, but that's definitely what he said] ....

Aside from a couple of vitamins that my doc advised that I take, I don't gobble down any supplements, I don't inject any peptides [or other drugs whether addictive or not]; I don't think that big pharma is out to get me* .... and in spite of that it still looks like my anti-intellectualism has come home to roost.     Where did I go wrong?

* however I do think the profit motive at times probably carries more weight in their decision making than it should. [Kinda akin to the old sports' saw,  "If you're not cheating, you're not trying."]

What's caused my distrust was seeing my mother in law die suddenly 19 days after one jab. The very day after her shot she was crying "someone help me something is wrong with me!" That was only for starters as at this point very little was known about it.

Then it was mom's boyfriend, then my step mom, a 62 year old woman I used to jam with, my uncle, others I know through work and local sports. A very good friend at work suddenly having seizures. A former player I coached had to cut her collegiate career short from sudden loss of energy and constant brain fog. This girl got a 33 SAT as a sophomore and suddenly was taking 4 hours of study time to do what used to take her 30 minutes.

Then seeing athletes in their prime dropping on the field of play, myocarditis, blood clots. I don't need influencers when I have eyes to see and ears to hear. But you all just keep being a voluntary pin cushion for big pharma. I'm am out - have been since my last flu shot in 2019 which made me deathly ill for three weeks. Been sick a few times since but nothing like that.

Received both the hi-strength flu AND the mRna Covid jabs on Saturday. Not a single negative reaction.

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Originally posted by chuckv97

There’s one i wouldn’t wish on anyone - shingles. A friend had it and it was brutal.

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I am currently recovering from varicella meningitis - shingles in the spinal cord and brain. No symptoms at all until the seizures started. I died during the third seizure (fortunately I was already in the ER when it hit. Was resuscitated and then intubated and sedated into a coma for 3 days, followed by 7 additional days of round the clock antibiotics.

It's so rare that my doctor admitted to me that in her 33 years of practice she had not seen a single case. Varicella meningitis is not even listed as a complication of chickenpox/shingles, yet here we are.

I am having balance problems, cognition difficulties, and hypersomnia (can't sleep). None of the docs is even willing to discuss possible after effects with me. Having neuro PT is helping, but y'all don't want to go down this road.

I don't even want to think about what would happen if I were to come down with the flu or Covid right now.

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Originally posted by PickleWurst

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Originally posted by chuckv97

There’s one i wouldn’t wish on anyone - shingles. A friend had it and it was brutal.

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I am currently recovering from varicella meningitis - shingles in the spinal cord and brain. No symptoms at all until the seizures started. I died during the third seizure (fortunately I was already in the ER when it hit. Was resuscitated and then intubated and sedated into a coma for 3 days, followed by 7 additional days of round the clock antibiotics.

It's so rare that my doctor admitted to me that in her 33 years of practice she had not seen a single case. Varicella meningitis is not even listed as a complication of chickenpox/shingles, yet here we are.

I am having balance problems, cognition difficulties, and hypersomnia (can't sleep). None of the docs is even willing to discuss possible after effects with me. Having neuro PT is helping, but y'all don't want to go down this road.

I don't even want to think about what would happen if I were to come down with the flu or Covid right now.

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Very sorry to read of your plights...

Hope you continue your recoverys well..

We each halfto make our own decisions ..n have our reasons ..why..

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

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Originally posted by banjo bill-e

The medical professionals and the pharmaceutical industries have destroyed trust for millions and it will take years to recover, if in fact they ever will. That trust had been built up, by parents and by schools over lifetimes, and then squandered in about two years.

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The "influencers", charlatans, quacks, supplement sellers, and conspiracy perpetuators have caused much of this distrust for personal profit. 

Anti-intellectualism has eroded people to the point where they cannot apply basic logic and critical thinking.  Folks constantly fall for the appeal to nature fallacy.  They claim "Big Pharma" is out to get them while gobbling down fist fulls of "supplements" and injecting grey market "peptides". 

Meanwhile, dangerous and highly addictive drugs are sold as "supplements" in that unregulated mess of snakeoil and scams. (look up kratom)

We live in the dumbest times. 

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Charlatans..on both sides I suspect...

I have been helped ( big time may i add..) by some good Dr.s..n danmed near killed by other..Dr.s ...

It is what has happened in me own life that swades me decisions...as dose..( I suspect..yours..) ..

I don't know more about medical things than my doctors.
They went to schools like Harvard for their degrees and knowledge
I'm fairly sure they know more about the medical side of things than I do.

A few weeks back a nerve specialist told me that I can't have a general pain [in this case it's in my elbow].... i.e. a person can always point to a specific, exact spot where the pain is felt. I'm still pondering the infallibility of that doc, but have an appointment tomorrow with the GP who referred me to the specialist, so maybe I'll find out some more.

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Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

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Originally posted by banjo bill-e

The medical professionals and the pharmaceutical industries have destroyed trust for millions and it will take years to recover, if in fact they ever will. That trust had been built up, by parents and by schools over lifetimes, and then squandered in about two years.

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The "influencers", charlatans, quacks, supplement sellers, and conspiracy perpetuators have caused much of this distrust for personal profit. 

Anti-intellectualism has eroded people to the point where they cannot apply basic logic and critical thinking.  Folks constantly fall for the appeal to nature fallacy.  They claim "Big Pharma" is out to get them while gobbling down fist fulls of "supplements" and injecting grey market "peptides". 

Meanwhile, dangerous and highly addictive drugs are sold as "supplements" in that unregulated mess of snakeoil and scams. (look up kratom)

We live in the dumbest times. 

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Charlatans..on both sides I suspect...

 

I have been helped ( big time may i add..) by some good Dr.s..n danmed near killed by other..Dr.s ...

It is what has happened in me own life that swades me decisions...as dose..( I suspect..yours..) ..

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As my old man used to say "Ya pays your nickel and ya takes your chances"

I've told every doctor that's ever seen or operated on me how much I appreciated their work.

I make do (?) with a "Thank you." and apply it to pretty much everybody along the chain.  I trust/hope that's sufficient from their perspective.  If I'm going to be heavily sedated I try to do it before, 'cause I might not be in condition to do it after.   I've never delved into it, but just assume that I'm a small part of "everybody" in that regard.

Crazy this thread made it to 4 pages...

...considering it is a banned topic of discussion.