quote:
Originally posted by Joel HooksSo, how does "clawhammer" differ from "frailing"? "Stroke style?" "Rapping?" "Thumping?"
In mho, it doesn't. The basic moves are the same for all.
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Originally posted by Joel Hooksquote:
Originally posted by janolovVirginia Banjo Picker, 1892-1971 , Wade Ward's niece Katie Hill uses "clawhammer" to describe Wade Ward's playing. Even if the recording is from 1972, the term clawhammer was probably in use locally a lot earlier (he was from Independance, Virginia). I don't think Katie Hill began to use a new word to describe the old music.
It is very common to alter language so that your audience understands what you mean.
This Generational Code-Switching, Audience Adaptation / Accommodation, or Linguistic Bridging is just how communication works. It is very possible that Katie Hill DID use a modern word to describe old music. This is a common thing to do.
This is not proof either way. And while it is some evidence to take into consideration (and not dismissed), it is really only evidence of "clawhammer" being used at the time the interview was being conducted.
Pete Seeter DID mention "clawhamer" in his second edition. One needs to be careful with reference to Seeger's book as with each reprint he made changes that are not always clear. I do not have access to the first edition mimeograph. But I do have access to the third printing of the second edition. On page 22, "Three Finger Picking or Clawhammer Style" is very clear in definition. This was published in 1962 and aligns with what I wrote previously.
https://archive.org/details/how-to-play-the-5-string-banjo-pete-seeger/page/22/mode/1up
I have a 1st printing of the second edition dated 1954 and it has the same chapter on "Three Finger Picking or Clawhammer Style". A later edition I used to have didn't use the term clawhammer for three finger picking, but did talk about bluegrass, which the 2nd edition didn't use at all, including for Earl Scruggs' playing.
Here's what I've managed to put together on the use of the terms frailing and clawhammer:
As best I can tell, the popularity of the term “frailing” goes back to Pete Seeger’s 1948 book How to Play the 5-string Banjo, the first book on folk or traditional banjo playing that I’m aware of. He used “frailing” as the main term for what is sometimes called “down-picking” – striking the strings with the back of the finger. Seeger also mentioned several other terms in his book: “I’ve heard it variously called ‘beating’ a banjo, ‘frailing’ or ‘framing’ the banjo.” My assumption is that as the “folk” banjo boom took off from that seed – it was the “folk” banjo’s introduction to a lot of urban and northern players – that it became the most commonly used term.
Some people misinterpret frailing as deriving from “frail”, meaning “weak or delicate”, and don’t see how the term applies to vigorous down-picking banjo! It seems that frailing is an old dialectal variation of “flailing”, as in a “flail”, a wooden staff with an attached swinging stick, used to thresh grain by beating it. A very vigorous activity!
In fact, most of the terms old-timers used to describe down-picking mean striking or hitting, as Seeger’s other terms above or these from Cecelia Conway in her book African Banjo Echoes in Appalachia: “Downstroking has evoked a variety of local names: ‘beating’ (Tross), ‘thumping’ (Odell Thompson, Burl Hammons), ’thumped the banjo and played horses’ (J.L. Mills on his grandfather Leath), mostly ‘knocking’ (Merle Watson on his father, Doc Watson’s, banjo playing), ‘knocking’ and ‘knockdown’ (Dock and John Boggs), ‘rapping’ (Hobart Smith), ‘racking,’ ‘rocking,’ ‘whomping’ (Dave Macon), ‘fisted’ clawhammer (Elizabeth ‘Babe’ Reid), ‘that-club-fisted-way’ (unidentified white man from Hiltons, Virginia), ‘gun-hammer’ (Arnold Watson), ‘clawhammer,’ and ‘frailing.'”
As you can see, most of the terms aren’t actually a name for the style, but a description of the action.
How about the term clawhammer? Where did it come from? And why is it the common name now?
Pete Seeger’s book is the first written use of the term “clawhammer” for banjo playing I’ve found – in the 1954 2nd edition of his book he uses it to mean three finger picking: “Three Finger Picking or ‘Clawhammer’ Style'”. I don’t have a 1948 edition to see if he used it there. That reference was then removed in a later edition. The LP Traditional Music from Grayson and Carroll Counties (which are in southwestern Virginia), released in 1962, is the earliest place I’ve found the term “clawhammer” used for down-picking. In the liner notes it says “This style, variously called “Clawhammer”, “Flailing the banjo”, and “thumbnoting” in the indigenous parlance is to be described in more detail below.” Through the notes, “clawhammer” is the usual term used. There are very few direct quotes from the performers in the notes, and none where they are directly quoted using “clawhammer”. folkways-media.si.edu/docs/fol...03811.pdf
The term is also used in the notes for The Music Of Roscoe Holcomb and Wade Ward, another album from 1962. folkways-media.si.edu/docs/fol...02363.pdf
In the 1964 New Lost City Ramblers Songbook, John Cohen apparently writes (I don’t have the actual book, so am quoting from someone else): “In the oldest technique, the picking is done entirely with a downward motion of the hand and fingers. The strings are struck with the back of the fingernail, rather than plucked up. There is no consistent name for this; it is variously called frailing , claw-hammer (C. Ashley), clubbing (Roscoe Holcomb), rapping (Hobart Smith), flailing, thrashing, knock-down, drop-thumb, and downpicking.”
In 1965, the album Clawhammer Banjo on County Records came out, “recorded in a small area of the Southern Highlands: Independence and Galax, VA and Low Gap, NC in 1965”. In the liner notes, Charlie Faurot, who recorded it, says “In clawhammer banjo–the term all the musicians here used to describe their style of playing…”. Those musicians were mostly born around the turn of the century.
The 1967 album Bluegrass From the Blue Ridge: Country Band Music of Virginia also uses the term “claw-hammer” throughout the notes. folkways-media.si.edu/docs/fol...03832.pdf
Then in 1968, a book of tablature came out that proved to be very influential, John Burke’s Book of Old Time Fiddle Tunes For Banjo. He includes several tunes from the Clawhammer Banjo LP, and in his notes contrasts the term “Clawhammer banjo” with “frailing”: “The Clawhammer style, though all its elements are contained in the ‘old time’ banjo tradition, is a relatively modern style. It is commonly confused with frailing and double-thumb frailing, but anyone familiar with Uncle Dave Macon will readily see that my settings are not very much like the things he did with the banjo. Uncle Dave used double thumbing as a percussive rather than as a melodic device…”
So it seems “clawhammer” was a term used by banjo players (many of the ones on the listed recordings were born around the turn of the century) in southwestern Virginia and northwestern North Carolina which was spread by records issued on Folkways and then County Records in the early to mid 1960s.
Also see Ken Perlman’s article here: banjonews.com/2001-04/the_claw...ival.html
With clawhammer/frailing it's much easier to render the melody than in the Scruggs style of playing. In that style there's a huge amount of "impress them" notes and the actual melody is provided mostly by the fiddle and the guitar(s) instead of a banjo..
Clawkammer may not have a lot of chord according to the clawhammer player but anyone else playing along sure do need them chords.
quote:
Originally posted by Hunter Robertson
As best I can tell, the popularity of the term “frailing” goes back to Pete Seeger’s 1948 book How to Play the 5-string Banjo, the first book on folk or traditional banjo playing that I’m aware of.
This dismisses the thousands and thousands of pieces of music, instruction books, magazines, articles, manuscript, etc., as not "traditional".
Joel,
You are on a basically Traditional Site which mostly posts remote and ancient tabs of how people Clawhammered / Stroked the Banjo, over a hundred years ago and most of the people on this site will argue for hundreds of hours insisting that their version of who named or started Clawhammer, Frailing, Rapping, Brushing Thumb Style, and on and on and on.
I get what you're saying Joel, but you are barking at the wrong crowd which is why I rarely post anymore; other than my tabs which I hope can be of help. But you'll notice that I also tab Classical and Modern Big Band pieces from time to time.....my best, Jack
Edited by - Jack Baker on 09/27/2026 08:23:10
quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooksquote:
Originally posted by Hunter Robertson
As best I can tell, the popularity of the term “frailing” goes back to Pete Seeger’s 1948 book How to Play the 5-string Banjo, the first book on folk or traditional banjo playing that I’m aware of.This dismisses the thousands and thousands of pieces of music, instruction books, magazines, articles, manuscript, etc., as not "traditional".
That depends on one's definition of traditional. And on how badly one wants to have an argument.
How do each of you define the term 'traditional'?
I’m using Merrian Webster.
Same for me, I rarely post and when I do the responses are usually snarking or rude.
Originally posted by Jack BakerJoel,
You are on a basically Traditional Site which mostly posts remote and ancient tabs of how people Clawhammered / Stroked the Banjo, over a hundred years ago and most of the people on this site will argue for hundreds of hours insisting that their version of who named or started Clawhammer, Frailing, Rapping, Brushing Thumb Style, and on and on and on.
I get what you're saying Joel, but you are barking at the wrong crowd which is why I rarely post anymore; other than my tabs which I hope can be of help. But you'll notice that I also tab Classical and Modern Big Band pieces from time to time.....my best, Jack
Traditional is how Tommy Jerrell played it at 2 in the afternoon on April 16th in 1946. Any covers of that are pseudo-traditional.
Probably very much onto a tangent, but in my estimation, many people use the word "traditional" when I figure "conventional" would be a more appropriate description. Betcha yer glad I could clear that up for ya. 
It’s coming back to me too why I stopped posting here.
When I first wrote the above up, it started: People love to argue about words. Joel’s reply is a case in point.
I’ve found a reference to clawhammer as down-picking now from 1961. The search goes on.
Lew,
Tradition began long before Tommy Jerrell. Where are you getting this incorrect info from? Do you just make it up. It adds , in my opinion, nothing to this discourse.....not meaning to be rude Lew but you go too far. Go to the Library of Congress and talk with the people there. That is where I look for the facts, not the "invent your own insight". Also, try the Harvard Dictionary of Music: The Ethno Music section....respectfully, Jack Baker p.s. Let's get this back to Banjo and its Music, not so many random musings....pps. Your Education is above reproach Degree wise so let's live up to it....J
Edited by - Jack Baker on 09/28/2026 05:10:45
Hunter Robertson , I'm not arguing over a word, I'm pointing out how narrowly focused the "folklore" narrative is. Words do matter though.
Can't believe I read all 4 pages. Wow. The Ignorant Rube's Award for best analogy goes to @EEB for his use of Cultural Sausage Machine to describe the several folk revivals. I also was struck by Joel's explanation of adjusting terminology to suit the audience. This reminds me that I know more people who know what Mongolian throat singing is than I know people who understand the difference between bluegrass and old-time.
Maybe I'm just hanging around with the wrong folks?
By the way, please don't ask me to define the difference between bluegrass and old-time. I'm too busy working on my Mongolian throat singing.
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Originally posted by Hunter RobertsonIt’s coming back to me too why I stopped posting here...
What was it the old folks used to say, no good deed goes unpunished.
Mongolian throat singing is brilliant, and I can do it, to a degree, and am probably better at it than the style of banjo playing that involves thumb on the twanging and index/middle fingernail knocking (fear to give it a name in case I get it wrong ??). However I bet there are Mongolians out there arguing endlessly about throat singing styles and traditions that have differences only detectable to an expert few. This post is an attempt at humour. Please don't take it seriously (other than I can throat sing)
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Originally posted by Jon BorcherdingCan't believe I read all 4 pages. Wow. The Ignorant Rube's Award for best analogy goes to @EEB for his use of Cultural Sausage Machine to describe the several folk revivals.
Lol. Last time I looked sausages are processed - reconstituted meat and additions with a fairly tenuous resemblance to the source. As a historian that seems to me an eminently justifiable and a perfectly reasonable - lightly humorous - comparison/analogy.
Therefore I'm a little curious why what can (and has in reams of print) be shown and supported would bother or offend you? It's not in the least a new or surprising acknowledgement. Maybe it's fair for me to ask you if consider you are engaging in an unmediated linear tradition when you rock up to Clifftop or sit in a 15+ circle each Tuesday at your local coffee shop?
It's huge fun, sure. That sociable fun draws on historic repertoire, sure. But to deny the extent to which the contemporary context is a modern construct is plain wrong. If you acknowledge the non-linear nature then by definition it opens a dialogue and study of that process.
Edited by - EEB on 09/29/2026 02:22:57
Actually the study of how and what we do is influenced, and both consciously and unconsciously shaped into the familiar form we know, is a neutral activity and simply a means to factual, cultural and social understanding. Learning.
Understanding complements and informs our sense of who we are and what we do. I’m not sure when or why that benefit became a purpose to throw rocks at?
Edited by - EEB on 09/29/2026 02:52:14
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Originally posted by Jon BorcherdingThis reminds me that I know more people who know what Mongolian throat singing is than I know people who understand the difference between bluegrass and old-time.
So easy to criticise; contributing what is substantiated is the result of much harder work. Here's your opportunity to share what you imply is your more urbane and perceptive insight in relation to the OP...
Edited by - EEB on 09/29/2026 03:08:35
quote:
Originally posted by Don Borcheltquote:
Originally posted by Hunter RobertsonIt’s coming back to me too why I stopped posting here...
What was it the old folks used to say, no good deed goes unpunished.
The Fallacy of Misplaced Burden (Appeal to Inconvenience and Cognitive Distortion) seems to be popular on this discussion (and BHO generally). This is usually followed by the old "I'm taking my ball and going home".
I’ve learned sooooo much.
But none of it was about clawhammer.
I’m going to play my banjo now.
Jack Baker criticized my flippant statement that "traditional" is what Tommy Jerrell did on afternoon. I should have elaborated a bit. I've met a lot of clawhammer pickers who define "traditional" in exactly that way. They learned to copy what Jerrell--and other older Appalachian banjoists did as closely as possible and often from tab, then say they are traditional pickers. I don't think these copiers are traditional. They did not grow up in communities among other musicians who played their community's traditional music and often innovating. I think they are reenacters of, or visitors to, tradition. I'm one myself at times, but I also claw old rock, blues, and a couple of jazz standards. I'm a visitor to some of those traditions too.
quote:
Originally posted by Lew HJack Baker criticized my flippant statement that "traditional" is what Tommy Jerrell did on afternoon. I should have elaborated a bit. I've met a lot of clawhammer pickers who define "traditional" in exactly that way. They learned to copy what Jerrell--and other older Appalachian banjoists did as closely as possible and often from tab, then say they are traditional pickers. I don't think these copiers are traditional. They did not grow up in communities among other musicians who played their community's traditional music and often innovating. I think they are reenacters of, or visitors to, tradition. I'm one myself at times, but I also claw old rock, blues, and a couple of jazz standards. I'm a visitor to some of those traditions too.
'Tradition' isn't alluded to in the OP. The ambiguity of the OP is no doubt why responses on this thread have diverged so widely. Ambiguity increases interpretation of meaning and inevitably some of us missed what the OP may have been referring to.
'Clawhammer style' and multiple names for the same tune have no innate connection. Clawhammer is a relatively modern term that has been almost universally adopted for an older technique. Diversity of same-tune titles is messily cultural and historical.
Chord use, or lack of chordal playing mentioned in the OP is another random reference.
Rather like those supermarket offers where you get 3 for the price of 2. Except this 3 for 2 was for entirely unrelated items.
Edited by - EEB on 09/30/2026 01:29:56
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