I can only say what works for me. I work on one or two measures at a time rather than the whole tune. Of course, your max speed for the whole tune will be your slowest section, but it works for me fairly quickly, maybe because I'm concentrating on just a few notes (or a short sequence of hand movements if that makes more sense) rather than all of them at once.

First thing. Don’t worry about playing it fast. Concentrate on playing it steady and slow. The faster bit will come naturally once you have nailed it slow and steady.

It appears that you've learned to play the notes that comprise a particular arrangement of the song, but it also appears that you have not learned to play those notes at the time they're intended to be played. When you're able to play those notes at the time they're intended to be played, then you start figuring out how to play faster. I would advise you to get a metronome and try to learn how to use it. It can be very difficult to learn to use one, but the potential benefits of doing so are inestimable.

I agree with Martyjoe. You need to learn to play it slow, in time and in tempo first, then worry about speed.

If you try to get too fast too soon, you'll end up being a sloppy picker.

You're new at picking and it takes time for the brain and the fingers to get together and figure out what they need to do... muscle memory doesn't happen in a day or week or month and speed comes when it comes.

You might try playing with a metronome or some sort of backing track that would help with timing and tempo.

Of course, you can always try to speed up a little and then go back down when you start making mistakes.

I don’t want discourage you in any way but maybe you have chosen a too difficult tune, I think you could have better results practicing the different rolls on simple three chord songs before trying pieces like this that has a lot of licks with slides, hammer on etc…
My suggestion is to practice the rolls with the metronome increasing the speed gradually, that is the basic training for bluegrass playing, once you feel confident with the rolls try some simple tunes…

Keep picking! :-)

What everyone else said. You can't play fast until you can play it correctly slow.

Not trying to be mean, but some of what you're playing isn't right.  I believe I hear some extra notes. (Maybe you're just restarting from some point. I get that.) Maybe I hear some dropped notes. There is no point in trying to play faster until you're playing everything right, which means the right notes at the right time at whatever tempo you can maintain start to finish.

To get there, I believe you need to break it down to a measure at a time or even a shorter phrase at a time to be sure you have it right. Each note where it belongs. Everything even. Do you have a recorded reference of how it's supposed to sound?

I know there are people who don't believe in even. They believe in bounce or swing. I believe you can't add the feeling of bounce or swing until you're in sufficient control of your rhythm to play in time. So work on playing evenly. Then work on playing faster.

Also: While I am a big fan of tab as a learning aid that shows you what to play. I'm also a fan of getting away from the tab on any lesson or piece as quickly as possible. This requires memorizing each section as you work on it so that you get to a point where you can play the whole thing without having to try to read tab and play in time at the same time. 

I think for learners, there's value in playing songs exactly as tabbed. Especially if the tab was given to you by a teacher as a lesson. Or if it's in a book or video that's a sequential instructional method. In that case, the song probably uses some technique that's next in line to be learned. So try to learn and memorize the song as tabbed.

Then once you can play it as tabbed, forget the tab and play it however you want. This will make more sense later on when you know more things to play on any chord and you understand how to substitute licks and notes that accomplish the same thing while not being the same thing. 

If you ever decide you've strayed too far from the piece as written or you're simply forgetting how a tune goes, then look at the tab again for a refresher.

Good luck.

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

I know there are people who don't believe in even. They believe in bounce or swing. I believe you can't add the feeling of bounce or swing until you're in sufficient control of your rhythm to play in time. So work on playing evenly. 

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With due respect, Ken, paired eighths are not something you add. If you've been taught to play this way, they are inherent in how you play from the outset. It's how you learn rolls, it's how you practice rolls, it's how you play songs, it's how you play everything. It's also how you hear banjo rhythms in your head: not 1-&-2-&-3-&-4-&-1..., but 1--&2---&3--&4--&1... And it isn't at all inconsistent with metronomic timing, as the click of a metronome falls on the numbered beats, not the "&" notes -- and the numbered beats remain evenly spaced. Paired eighths are thus most certainly "in time." 

Indeed, paired eighths enhance the rhythmic flow of the tune -- particularly at slower tempos -- and help players connect each measure with the one that follows (the vital "&1" that eliminates any potential pausing at the measure line). Beginners who wants to develop and groove good rhythmic skills are well advised to pair as early as possible. 

Well, if you’ve been playing banjo for a few years then this is a good one for you to learn. If you’re in your first year or two I’ll repeat what I always say, “You’re reaching too far into the future” (actually I’ve never said that until now…. ;-)
As has been said already, there are no shortcuts to fast, clean playing. We’ve all slogged through seemingly endless reps to inch our way towards 135 bpm or better. And there are some tricky parts to this tune that less experienced players will stumble over.
I say let those fingers work on something easier if you haven’t already done so, on tunes with increasingly difficult passages. To acquire speed try “speed bursts” - play one or two measures of a tune at a slow tempo , then play them at twice the tempo , then back to slow. You’ll need a metronome to do this,, there are free ones online. Good luck!

Probably a repetition of previous advice, but just a few days ago I heard a MLB catcher expounding on practicing all the individual movements in receiving a pitch and getting off a quick, accurate throw to second:  "Slow is smooth; smooth is fast."

[And, I guess we're all different, but I've found that an additional 1000 reps is probably a good start.    Good luck.]

quote:

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Originally posted by knowles1234

Hello friends. I'm learning Lonesome Road Blues, and I'm stuck on slow speed. I can play it a little faster and more fluid than I do in this video (I had some stage fright knowing that this was going to be posted.)

I'm looking for tips on gaining some speed. Maybe I just need to play it another 1000 times, but if you have any tips please share. Thanks

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Hi David, 

You're doing fine.  Be patient with yourself; it takes time, a lot of time.  Definitely, don't count the reps, find harmony in the process.

It looks like you're still in the new-tune-stage of reading the music.  Speed starts to happen when it is fully memorized and the notes are automated (able to read a book at the same time). 

This is where watching foreign media with subtitles while playing the tune, over and over, helps with the boring repetition...

Beware of drift and listen to good examples on repeat; every day, all day, for as long as it takes to fully resonate and stay aligned with the tune.

Thank you very much, Kam. This is both helpful and encouraging.

quote:

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Originally posted by Rich Weill
 Beginners who wants to develop and groove good rhythmic skills are well advised to pair as early as possible. 

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So working on paired eighths is what David most immediately needs to do to correct what you hear in his playing?

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

quote:

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Originally posted by Rich Weill
 Beginners who wants to develop and groove good rhythmic skills are well advised to pair as early as possible. 

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So working on paired eighths is what David most immediately needs to do to correct what you hear in his playing?

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I was responding more to your general point -- but now that you mention it, I believe it would help David a great deal if he paired his notes. Trying my best to be kind and supportive of a beginner, I was struck, first and foremost, by the absence of any rhythmic flow in David's recording. It appeared to me that his eyes were on a sheet of tab, and he was doing his best to play a string of written notes faithfully, without regard to the fact that music is not merely a string of written notes. Music has a pulse, an ebb and flow, recurring downbeats, etc. In short, rhythm. I heard no rhythm.

Of the three main components of music -- melody, harmony, and rhythm -- rhythm is the least forgiving. An errant melody note usually isn't noticed (and may even jazz things up a bit). A wrong chord (harmony) might never be spotted. But a lapse of rhythm is jarring to the ear. Students ignore the importance of rhythmic skills at their peril.

Paired eighths, if practiced sufficiently (generally by internalizing that 1--&2--&3--&4--&1... rhythm in your head and fingers; it's the same lubDUB as a heartbeat) and maintained as you play, immediately puts you on the road to playing rhythmically. Pairing automatically provides a natural pulse that does not come automatically with straight eighths.

So, yes, I would absolutely recommend to David that he pair his notes while practicing each of the rolls he uses. I predict he will also discover, maybe for the first time, the urge to tap his foot as he plays this way. The rhythm of paired eighths can be infectious. 

Have you considered taking a few lessons? A good teacher can speed up the process.

quote:

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Originally posted by Rich Weill
I was responding more to your general point -- but now that you mention it, I believe it would help David a great deal if he paired his notes. Trying my best to be kind and supportive of a beginner, I was struck, first and foremost, by the absence of any rhythmic flow in David's recording.

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I agree with Wayne's assessment and suggestion: David most immediately needs to play the notes when they're intended. Get them in time without the pauses and irregularity. And get them right. After that, he can work on the expressiveness of paired eighths -- in tunes where paired eighths are called for.

David came here asking about playing faster. The answer is the proverbial learning to walk before learning to run.

Speed is usually a function of practice. But you have to be sure you’re practicing the right thing of course.

more advanced players are not thinking about individual notes or what rolls to play. They're thinking about phrases, tone, timing. And if they're in a band, what the other guys are doing. 

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

Get them in time without the pauses and irregularity.

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Don't you see? The reason for the pauses and irregularities is that David has no rhythmical template underlying what he's trying to play. Nothing that keeps his roll going rhythmically. Nothing that makes him want to tap his foot (or nod his head, or whatever) in time with the music. Nothing that helps him to internalize a flowing beat that has no pauses or irregularities. Pairing provides all of these things. (Metronomes are poor substitutes. Metronomes are rhythmless timing devices.)

Pausing? As I stated above, pairing is the antidote to pausing. With straight eighths, students too often count this way: 1-&-2-&-3-&-4-&//1-&-2-&3-&-4-&//. Their counting stops at the end of each measure. One of the beauties of pairing is that paired eighths join measures together. It's not ...3-&-4-&//1-&-2-&..., but &3--&4--&1--&2... Each measure feeds into the next one naturally, with no pause.

Learn to walk first, absolutely. But learn to walk without stumbling all over your feet. 

quote:

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Originally posted by Rich Weill

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

Get them in time without the pauses and irregularity.

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Don't you see? The reason for the pauses and irregularities is that David has no rhythmical template underlying what he's trying to play. Nothing that keeps his roll going rhythmically. Nothing that makes him want to tap his foot (or nod his head, or whatever) in time with the music. Nothing that helps him to internalize a flowing beat that has no pauses or irregularities. Pairing provides all of these things. (Metronomes are poor substitutes. Metronomes are rhythmless timing devices.)

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I believe the problems are:

- He's not entirely sure what the piece is supposed to sound like.

- He's not correctly reading the tab to assign notes their correct duration or play them at the right places at the right time (including on those numbered beats which you agree are immutable)

- He's trying to play at a faster tempo than he can maintain. So tapping his foot or nodding his head aren't going to help.

David: I watched your video again and you are much closer to getting it than I originally thought. I am sorry to have conveyed otherwise.

I think the main thing you have to do is take some time to look at every measure to understand the music as written. Work on each measure over and over to get it sounding right. If you have a recorded reference of what it's supposed to sound like, listen to that because sometimes written tab doesn't convey the exact sense or some of the subtlety. (This is a limitation of all written music, not just tablature)

The difference of opinion Rich and I are having is whether at the outset one should play the notes as written, which means playing them as evenly as possible because that's how they're written, or if one should play them with a hard-to-describe swing, bounce or shuffle in which the "and" notes in between the numbered notes (that is: "one and two and thre and four and") occur dead center between the numbered notes or slightly delayed so they're more tightly "paired" with their following numbered note (one   and-two   and-three    and-four   and-one   and-two   and-three   and-four).

I believe this feel takes time to develop. Rich believes it's the way you should play from the time you start to learn rolls.

It's really a matter of degrees. Paired eighths at the extreme sound like an oompah band.  Or a march.  For a good example, listen to the musical fill in the Beatles' "Yellow Submarine" after the lyric "and the band begins to play."   It's easy to count this as oompah or march-style paired notes.  As I said, this is an extreme.  The exact way it's supposed to be played can't be conveyed in either notation or tab. That's why written music will sometimes try to indicate this with the written instruction "swing" or "shuffle" (leaving up to the musician to know what that means).  Or will do it in a graphical musical equation such as:

which in effect says: "When you see this, play this"

My belief, and the way I've played music for over 60 years now (and banjo for over 50, some of it shared here for all to hear) is no one rhythm fits every piece of music and no one way of playing banjo -- of timing the notes on banjo -- can possibly fit or be right for every piece of music. Would a drummer swing the rhythm of every song? Of course not. Then why should a banjo?

At 2:15 I explain swing rhythm or what Rich calls “paired eighths”.

Old Hickory
I agree that there are some fundamentals that need addressing before anything else. I don’t think you always have to walk before you can run, but the foundational stuff is just a requirement.

I notice we're not helping the OP play faster, and that's because there are other things that come first. 

I've always head "practice slow and you'll play fast." You'll just have to play it a million times until it's muscle memory, and playing fast will come easy. Some other tips are to use a metronome. when you get it up to speed use a backing track off YouTube. Just focus on your timing, not your speed, and the speed will just come. Each song I know I've played thousands of times, and only about 1% of that are in jams, the rest are practice.