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Apr 25, 2026 - 12:20:59 PM

Owen

Canada

19383 posts since 6/5/2011
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Not the clearest of pics, but hopefully clear enough.   It was presented to me as a "Circle of Fifths" but is unlike other CoFs I've seen.


 

Apr 25, 2026 - 1:19:11 PM
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82088 posts since 5/9/2007

It shows the Root with each IV,V and Minor.

Edited by - steve davis on 04/25/2026 13:21:39

Apr 25, 2026 - 1:40:44 PM

chuckv97

Canada

79076 posts since 10/5/2013

as per Steve - on the left see G (the key of) ,, C and D are the 4 and 5 chords (lV and V) ,, inside those is the relative minor chord of G , the E minor

(all this is discussed in “The Rudiments of Music” by Barbara Wharram [no relation to Kenny])

Thierry Schoysman, the Bill Keith maven and analyst, with daughter and applicable t-shirts (for sale, btw, on his website..... [us lowlanders gotta stick together, ja ]}


 

Edited by - chuckv97 on 04/25/2026 13:47:19

Apr 25, 2026 - 2:52:30 PM

Owen

Canada

19383 posts since 6/5/2011
Online Now

Merci.   Does the diagram/chart in the OP have a name?

Is there a particular advantage to presenting the info in a circular format instead of a column/row format? 

I figure once around the circle would correspond to an octave, so a circle could make the change to a different octave easier to visualize.  ... or am I 'way out in left field?

Apr 25, 2026 - 3:09:16 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

79076 posts since 10/5/2013

No, yes, no

Apr 25, 2026 - 3:47:02 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

79076 posts since 10/5/2013

quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97

No, yes, no


Don't mean to be flippant but I thought less is more today

Apr 25, 2026 - 9:06:24 PM
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Alex Z

USA

6165 posts since 12/7/2006

It's a circle. But it is not the "circle of fifths."    And some of the chords related to the main chord are not accurate. 

Apr 25, 2026 - 9:34:15 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

79076 posts since 10/5/2013

quote:
Originally posted by Alex Z

It's a circle. But it is not the "circle of fifths."    And some of the chords related to the main chord are not accurate. 


Right - it doesn't follow the 5ths sequence,, and in the key of B there should be an F sharp , not F

Apr 26, 2026 - 3:53:01 AM
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521 posts since 9/9/2006

Here’s a diagram that should be easier to understand:


 

Apr 27, 2026 - 12:39:18 PM

82088 posts since 5/9/2007

A circle simply shows the key and minor without explaining the 4 and 5.
The drawing has added the 4 and 5 and has a few mistakes.
Playing the key as the root (in a trad circle) leaves choosing the 4 and 5 in the hands of the player as in no unnecessary information.

Apr 27, 2026 - 1:22:56 PM
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3784 posts since 4/19/2008

I’ll give it a shot, circle of natural primary chords with relative minor that is inaccurate!

Apr 27, 2026 - 9:16:01 PM
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6956 posts since 3/6/2006

…or it could be a map to the fabled buried treasure of Blackbeard!
Did you win it in a poker game by any chance?

Apr 27, 2026 - 10:14:36 PM
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4025 posts since 10/17/2009

quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Z

It's a circle. But it is not the "circle of fifths."    And some of the chords related to the main chord are not accurate. 


Right - it doesn't follow the 5ths sequence,, and in the key of B there should be an F sharp , not F


yep it's missing a few # symbols.

The key of B, besides the V being F#, also vi should be G#m

The key of E, the vi should be a C#m

 

I think the purpose was just handy chart for most common natural keys; goes in ascending scale order clockwise... C, D, E, F, G, A, B back to C

Edited by - banjoak on 04/27/2026 22:21:09

Apr 28, 2026 - 8:48:23 AM
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RB3

USA

2757 posts since 4/12/2004

I might be the result of someone trying to add "swing" to the circle of fifths.

Apr 28, 2026 - 9:26:48 AM

pinenut

USA

1406 posts since 10/2/2007
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by Owen

Is there a particular advantage to presenting the info in a circular format instead of a column/row format? 


Hi Owen,

It is set in the circle format for showing relationships/continuity and doing 'tricks' (writing music).  I am not at the tricks level yet and mostly use the thing to determine IV, I, V and decipher the key signature in written music.

Would "somebody" explain how the opposing segments are related and used on the circle of fifths?

Edited by - pinenut on 04/28/2026 09:41:43

Apr 28, 2026 - 10:36:19 AM
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2258 posts since 2/10/2003

quote:
Originally posted by pinenut
quote:
Originally posted by Owen

Is there a particular advantage to presenting the info in a circular format instead of a column/row format? 


Hi Owen,

It is set in the circle format for showing relationships/continuity and doing 'tricks' (writing music).  I am not at the tricks level yet and mostly use the thing to determine IV, I, V and decipher the key signature in written music.

Would "somebody" explain how the opposing segments are related and used on the circle of fifths?


It is circular because as you start and any point and go around you come back to the same point?  That is the definition of a circle. 
 

The opposing segments are tri-tones, ie 3 whole steps apart. This is an augmented 4th/diminished 5th interval; one of the most dissonant intervals and therefore is the "blue note" in the blues scale. 

May 11, 2026 - 6:28:51 AM

82088 posts since 5/9/2007

If you build your progressions according to chord shapes,as if all keys are G,they (all keys) work the same way.

May 11, 2026 - 6:58:44 AM

1194 posts since 4/27/2020
Online Now

Crop circle layout.

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