quote:

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Originally posted by KCJones

The 'default' banjo is an openback, for all types of playing.

That is simply untrue if you restrict yourself only to five-string banjos.  Reality is that the external resonator of the type first introduced by Paramount and perfected by Gibson, was pretty universally adopted by banjo makers once they were introduced mainly for varieties of banjos played with flat picks.  There is no area of banjo where the top players who could afform them did not avail themselves of resonators.  Before my hero Joel rises to defend the legacy of such as Van Eps, he will have to admit Van Eps himself dedicated himself to developing his own design for a resonator, for banjos with an internal resonator,

Probably beween 1930 and 1950, it was probably hard to find a five string banjo that was not produced with a resonator.  Many of the Vega and Fairbanks produced after 1920s were produced with a resonator.

". I’d love to hear from someone about when the resonators that we think of as pre-war Gibsons and friends start popping up and dominating that space."

This is a kind of regressive way of looking ait.  The external resonators started being introduced around 1918 or so primarily for tenor and plectrum banjos, and were included in most five-string banjos including premium Vegas,  Fairbanks and Bacons (although Bacon did have a kind of internal resonator on his pre Groton models).    All the prewar Gibson were produced as part of a line of instruments that started with a Tenor banjo, included a mandolin banjo, and a plectrum banjo with a five string banjo being last in the line I think not until the early 20s.  Gibson was the premium Mandolin company in America and a premium guitar maker did not make banjos until 1918.

We look back at Gibsons because postwar bluegrass players focus on them, but they were not the inventors, or the cheif innovators of the external resonator of the type Gibson adopted on banjos.  Their significance as a banjo company has grown since Earl's adoption of the Gibson mastertone mde them more popular and widespread.    They did not invent the external resonator of the type Gibson banjos have used since the 1920s, and were not the most widespread producers of resonator banjos.  All the banjo makers switched to making RBs.  The premium banjo companies in the time when Gibson first created its glorious RBs Bacon,  Paramount, Vega, are no longer in existence.  Though they are identified with open back models. most of their banjost produced after 1920 came with external resonators.

Gibson was not the major company introducing the idea of a resonator banjo.  Gibson is at the center of our ideas because of the single minded concentration on Gibson resonator banjos because Earl Scruggs played one as did some of the other early bluegrass players, but Gibson had much less influence on banjo making until the fascination with Scruggs came after WWii, although they did try some serious marketing with old time players, especially with Charlie Poole who received several Mastertone as product placement,    However, they were not seen as a trend setting banjo company.

The external resonator is simply a good inexpensive and not technologically difficult solution to projecting the sound of a banjo without doing some of the intricate work that internal resonators and other ideas of the period required.   You (Chris) even ended up playing an RB with the Gwana musicians in Morocco!

I want to say I have nothing against Gibson banjos and love them. Anyone who wishes to help me with this issue by presenting me with a Gibson RB of any vintage will get a gold star from me.

As hesitant as I am to engage, I will just say this.

The first banjos did not have a resonator. The resonator was an added feature that came later in the development of the instrument. It's an extra optional feature, not a fundamental component of the instrument.

A theme of academics is that the won't, or seemingly can't, understand that tradition is descriptive rather than prescriptive. It is defined by how people actually behave, not by how the 'educated authorities' think they should. 1960 was 66 years ago, and open back banjos have been the traditional type of banjo for clawhammer style since then. That's a long time, certainly long enough to build a strong tradition. You will not find many resonator banjos at old time festivals or on front porches. "Traditional" does not mean "in the past".  

writerrad Tony, great to "see" you! I quit Facebook a while back and have missed your posts, one of the only real losses there. Thanks for the details. I've seen many of these things kicking around, but never tried to put an order to them. (For anyone who is interested, a quick web search led me to a chronology of Gibson banjos [1], which made it easier to look for some years. The 1918 [2] is an open back, the 1922 [3] has the flat resonator backing, the 1925 [4] has the full resonator. I'm sure there's much more nuance to these, but I was just looking for some photos to align with Tony's description. This 1924 Paramount catalog [5] has a host of instruments with the resonators that I was associating with Gibson Mastertone banjos and their ilk when I asked the question.)

KCJones Your point is valid: when does something become such an expectation that it's widely seen as a tradition or, in the case of the original question here, a given? 66 years ago is a long time! I'd personally love to hear more about the pressures that made this shift that Tony and Don are describing happen. Was it as straightforward as "the folk scene highlighted open backs, and many folks came to the banjo through that, so the association strengthened at the same time as bluegrassers were focused on Earl's Grenada"? Things like advertising, marketing in growing camp/festival scenes, and perhaps social distance between these groups might be relevant (or not?). To say that "tradition is descriptive rather than prescriptive" could apply to both how people behave now and how it came to be that way, right? Traditions have their own histories, and those are pretty interesting. You're right to say that "traditional" doesn't mean "in the past," but it usually refers to folks thinking about the past. Time scales can differ, though, so it's easy to talk past each other. Sorry if that's what is happening here.

Any insights into the other half of the original question? Unlike resonators, scoops do seem to be more recent. What's the history of those? When do they start popping up? Did folks start pulling frets to get more space when playing loudly with lower action? Was there a move to lower bridge height? I could see some practicalities and I frankly really like playing with a scoop. But I don't think I've seen many (any?) on older instruments. Fingerstyle turn-of-the-century playing doesn't really need one and neither would jazz tenor-style.

[1]: siminoff.net/gibson
[2]: gryphonstrings.com/products/19...anjo-used
[3]: reverb.com/item/54118029-gibso...irca-1922
[4]: jakewildwood.blogspot.com/2025...ator.html
[5]: acousticmusic.org/wp-content/u...-1924.pdf

cjwit , the “modern” scoop, ie what is used for playing festival “Galax” style, was first introduced around 1965 by Bob Flesher, requested by someone to easier imitate Kyle Creed (though Creed did not use a scoop).

There is no doubt in my mind that Flesher was inspired by the aesthetic design found on early rim banjos, likely a carryover from tackheads.

Bob would have likely had some knowledge of those in the 60s, but how much I do not know.

The important point is that today the Gibson line of resonator banjos seems significant. This is solely because of the influence of Earl Scruggs and a core of other Southern banjoists who favored Gibson banjos in the mid 1940s. Then we have the magnificantion of the importance of Earl Scruggs and bluegrass and the repopularization of the five string banjo across the 50s and 60s in Bluegrass. None of this was going on in the 1920s

However in the 1920s or 1918, these were not seen as significant banjos that were important to the history of banjos, or important to the development of banjos which centered on other brands of banjos that were the premium tenor and plectrum banjos of that era.

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Originally posted by Bill Rogers

 …. The late Cathy Barton played an aluminum-shell(!) resonator Ode her entire career...

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I have one of those.  I admired one that belonged to my good friend and picking partner, the late Ed Britt, and he found one for me.  I used it all the years we went busking in Harvard Square.  Mine is a Model 42; the resonator flange and rib are all one piece.  I love the sound, very crisp and clean.

When the comments have footnotes, you know you're in too deep

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

cjwit , the “modern” scoop, ie what is used for playing festival “Galax” style, was first introduced around 1965 by Bob Flesher, requested by someone to easier imitate Kyle Creed (though Creed did not use a scoop).

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I almost asked about Kyle Creed, specifically. Thanks, that makes sense. And when comments start getting footnotes, I feel like you're just getting started! (Though my "notes" were really just links, I like to get them out of the text so they're not in the way.)

Here is an article from Feb 1914

.:KC here misunderstands the definition of tradition, which is generally meant to be a folk tradition or even a religeously developed tradition, not the kind of tradition that is "transmitted" by Facebook or earlier iterations such as dear old Banjo-l.

In fact research on this, such as when for a presentation at the Banjo Gathering about 12 years ago, I looked up what banjoes the African Americans Kip Lornell and others had recorded for the Digital Library of Appalachia actually played.,  I found that the almost universally played resonator banjos.  The few that did not were mostly people who had played resonator banjos until they got in contact with white old time music enthusiasts who decided that they should play Vegas or Fairbanks or other revivalist banjos. and are often pictured holding open back banjos that were NOT THEIR BANJOS, but owned by white old time music enthusiasts who thought they were proper.   On the other hand when Odell Thompson whose folkie picture is holding a sweet Fairbanks Special Electric that I believe Cece Conway still owns that was owned by Tommy Thompson and Cece when Tommy was living, was asked by Deering what kind of banjo he wanted, he got a Deering Resonator banjo.

When Doc Watson came upon old time revivalists and for a while about a decade after he was "discovered" by Mike Seeger and Ralph Rinzler,  Watson played an RB.

There was no adoption by Southern white or Black continuators of the old time banjo tradition of playing open back back banjos. but a fashion and misunderstanding by mostly urban and college originated old time revivalists  of the myth that  old time banjo is chiefly played on open back banjos. 

It is funny insofar many of the open back banjos of the Fairbanks and Vega vintage. especially many conversions like the 1923 Vega pot with a 5 string neck  I should be pickingh instead of typing here were originally built as resonator banjos or came with a detachable resonator, that got lost or jettisoned over the years.

thanks Joel.

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Originally posted by xnos2xnos2

I’ve never seen a banjo that has both a claw hammer scoop, and also a closed-back resonator

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Any banjo can have a scoop if you pull a few frets and cut a bit out of the neck! I play a resonator that I scooped, though you can play fine over the neck without one. Just preference.

I would toss one more speculative factor into the pot. It seems like approachability and palatability are among the points that attract folk banjo-ers to the style. It takes more technical skill to get to the point that Scruggs style starts sounding good, and it's doubtless more painful to witness when it isn't any good at all. A lot of that is just on account of the sheer brightness and volume of typical bluegrass setups on typical resonator banjos, with typical metal picks. People choosing to learn bluegrass aren't scared of that sound.

Contemporary old time banjo tends to be delivered with a much milder, more digestible tone. Something less likely to attract attention or cut through a mix, but equally unlikely to motivate your spouse to poison your morning coffee. Stands to reason that people choosing a more approachable & less divisive style would go with warmer & quieter instruments. Hence lighter (or no) tone ring and no resonator.

quote:

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Originally posted by SatCotM

I would toss one more speculative factor into the pot. It seems like approachability and palatability are among the points that attract folk banjo-ers to the style. It takes more technical skill to get to the point that Scruggs style starts sounding good, and it's doubtless more painful to witness when it isn't any good at all. A lot of that is just on account of the sheer brightness and volume of typical bluegrass setups on typical resonator banjos, with typical metal picks. People choosing to learn bluegrass aren't scared of that sound.

Contemporary old time banjo tends to be delivered with a much milder, more digestible tone. Something less likely to attract attention or cut through a mix, but equally unlikely to motivate your spouse to poison your morning coffee. Stands to reason that people choosing a more approachable & less divisive style would go with warmer & quieter instruments. Hence lighter (or no) tone ring and no resonator.

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This is (to me, at least) a fascinating development that seems to not be acknowledged or discussed very often. Many old-time banjo players and makers today are aiming for a sound that did not really exist in the past, or at least was not that common or desirable. There has occurred a timbral shift, alongside perhaps more obvious changes in technique and musical interpretation. It's a sound I would describe as "hollow-plunky," which is partly the result of playing over the scoop area at an angle (on a shorter scale banjo, this is around the 1/4 mark of the open strings, which excites them in such a way as to produce mostly fundamental and octave) and partly the result of design/setup (e.g., open-back, stuffed pot, shorter scale lengths, less aggressive tone rings including woodies, bridge positioned closer to middle of head) aimed at reducing the presence of odd-numbered and inharmonic partials -- what otherwise give the banjo it's brightness, nasalness, twang, and so on. And as you suggest, the goal is not "cut through" but rather to blend with guitar/fiddle or simply to sound nice (subjective, of course) by itself. The remarkable thing is that this shift is basically divergent from everything else in banjo land currently and historically, but not, I would argue, from broader trends in contemporary music. 

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Originally posted by banjoboyd

quote:

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Originally posted by SatCotM

I would toss one more speculative factor into the pot. It seems like approachability and palatability are among the points that attract folk banjo-ers to the style. It takes more technical skill to get to the point that Scruggs style starts sounding good, and it's doubtless more painful to witness when it isn't any good at all. A lot of that is just on account of the sheer brightness and volume of typical bluegrass setups on typical resonator banjos, with typical metal picks. People choosing to learn bluegrass aren't scared of that sound.

Contemporary old time banjo tends to be delivered with a much milder, more digestible tone. Something less likely to attract attention or cut through a mix, but equally unlikely to motivate your spouse to poison your morning coffee. Stands to reason that people choosing a more approachable & less divisive style would go with warmer & quieter instruments. Hence lighter (or no) tone ring and no resonator.

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This is (to me, at least) a fascinating development that seems to not be acknowledged or discussed very often. Many old-time banjo players and makers today are aiming for a sound that did not really exist in the past, or at least was not that common or desirable. There has occurred a timbral shift, alongside perhaps more obvious changes in technique and musical interpretation. It's a sound I would describe as "hollow-plunky," which is partly the result of playing over the scoop area at an angle (on a shorter scale banjo, this is around the 1/4 mark of the open strings, which excites them in such a way as to produce mostly fundamental and octave) and partly the result of design/setup (e.g., open-back, stuffed pot, shorter scale lengths, less aggressive tone rings including woodies, bridge positioned closer to middle of head) aimed at reducing the presence of odd-numbered and inharmonic partials -- what otherwise give the banjo it's brightness, nasalness, twang, and so on. And as you suggest, the goal is not "cut through" but rather to blend with guitar/fiddle or simply to sound nice (subjective, of course) by itself. The remarkable thing is that this shift is basically divergent from everything else in banjo land currently and historically, but not, I would argue, from broader trends in contemporary music. 

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Bingo.

quote:Boy old Eddie would tear up a debate like this.    Such a great example.

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Originally posted by Don Borchelt

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill Rogers

 …. The late Cathy Barton played an aluminum-shell(!) resonator Ode her entire career...

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I have one of those.  I admired one that belonged to my good friend and picking partner, the late Ed Britt, and he found one for me.  I used it all the years we went busking in Harvard Square.  Mine is a Model 42; the resonator flange and rib are all one piece.  I love the sound, very crisp and clean.

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quote:

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Originally posted by banjoboyd

Many old-time banjo players and makers today are aiming for a sound that did not really exist in the past, or at least was not that common or desirable. There has occurred a timbral shift, alongside perhaps more obvious changes in technique and musical interpretation. It's a sound I would describe as "hollow-plunky,"

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I think I read something that indicated that some of the first recordings of clawhammer style banjoists have that plunky sound, and that there is a current trend to recapture that as an authentic feature of old time music.  I wonder if that's a factor.

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Originally posted by SophiaD

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I think I read something that indicated that some of the first recordings of clawhammer style banjoists have that plunky sound, and that there is a current trend to recapture that as an authentic feature of old time music.  I wonder if that's a factor.

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If that were indeed the case, then wouldn't we expect to see people building exact replicas of the banjos used on those recordings? We don't need to assume; can anyone here point to a field recording (say, pre-1970s) that exemplifies this tone? 

This is a compelling line of thought and I bet a host of folks will add to it. There's a little forum drift here, but if open backs "sound right" for the music, it's fair to ask how and when the expectation of the contemporary open back sound really took hold. I'd expect somewhere in the folk revival as part of circulating recordings, festivals, and what not, so perhaps more of the 50s and 60s rather than the 70s, but I'm out of my depth.

Pete Seeger in 1959, which is not exactly old time or clawhammerish, but certainly of a similar tone quality (and someone who brought many to a specific part of the banjo world): youtube.com/watch?v=bYe-bLaqhhY

A quick search on the previously-mentioned Kyle Creed—I'd expect him to be one of many important figures in this discussion—brought these two videos up. One is 1966, before the 1970s, but not by much, and the other sounds similar and is from the 70s. The second has video, though.

Kyle Creed in 1966 (audio only): youtube.com/watch?v=U96urRbQwbI
Kyle Creed in the 1970s: youtube.com/watch?v=nIMoA2yqUZE
As opposed to Grandpa Jones in 1961 playing clawhammer on a resonator: youtube.com/watch?v=AXyys1JEkbk

These sounds pretty in line with contemporary expectation (and some of my banjos). But, of course, trying to work out a way to differentiate and describe sounds is notoriously difficult, too.

Not an older recording, but Elizabeth Cotton playing Georgia Buck on what is probably an open back that sounds (to me) just like a resonator. So yeah. Banjos are hard. youtube.com/watch?v=IobSpMzmjQY

More specific question for the ramble: when did we really see wire strings take over from nylon? Was that related to specific traditions and settings (like on jazz tenors or whatever)? Was that something that came about before or after the Paramount-then-Gibson style of resonator? This was a fun rabbit hole. Back to work.

Chris -- Undoubtedly, the Round Peak crew (Kyle Creed, Tommy Jarrell, Fred Cockerham) have had a big impact on today's old time. Perhaps a singular impact. That's one of the reasons I mention the 70s, because that's when the Round Peak style seems to have really been put on the map (although it was "discovered" by outsiders in the 60s). Another reason is that the 70s were 50 years ago, and 50 years is just long enough for someone to say "That's how grandpappy did it" (and if grandpappy did it that way, who knows how far it really goes back).

So, we could possibly trace the timbral shift back to players like Creed, but to my ear, it's not quite the same. There has been further shifting in the intervening years.

When did the "boutique" old time banjo industry really gain momentum? The 90s? I am thinking of makers like Reiter and Enoch. I think that's an important piece of the puzzle. 

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Originally posted by SophiaD

quote:

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Originally posted by banjoboyd

Many old-time banjo players and makers today are aiming for a sound that did not really exist in the past, or at least was not that common or desirable. There has occurred a timbral shift, alongside perhaps more obvious changes in technique and musical interpretation. It's a sound I would describe as "hollow-plunky,"

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I think I read something that indicated that some of the first recordings of clawhammer style banjoists have that plunky sound, and that there is a current trend to recapture that as an authentic feature of old time music.  I wonder if that's a factor.

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The equipment used for recordings and how the recordings are played is an elephant in this room.  

Recordings on magnetic tape, played back via the same and maybe even digitized are reasonably faithful reproductions of the original live sound (not counting purposeful editing).

Recordings on wax or played from records are very different from the actual live sound.

Good luck finding a useful/true recording made before 8-tracks.  

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Originally posted by writerrad

...In fact research on this, such as when for a presentation at the Banjo Gathering about 12 years ago, I looked up what banjoes the African Americans Kip Lornell and others had recorded for the Digital Library of Appalachia actually played.,  I found that the almost universally played resonator banjos.  The few that did not were mostly people who had played resonator banjos until they got in contact with white old time music enthusiasts who decided that they should play Vegas or Fairbanks or other revivalist banjos. and are often pictured holding open back banjos that were NOT THEIR BANJOS, but owned by white old time music enthusiasts who thought they were proper.   On the other hand when Odell Thompson whose folkie picture is holding a sweet Fairbanks Special Electric that I believe Cece Conway still owns that was owned by Tommy Thompson and Cece when Tommy was living, was asked by Deering what kind of banjo he wanted, he got a Deering Resonator banjo.

When Doc Watson came upon old time revivalists and for a while about a decade after he was "discovered" by Mike Seeger and Ralph Rinzler,  Watson played an RB.

There was no adoption by Southern white or Black continuators of the old time banjo tradition of playing open back back banjos. but a fashion and misunderstanding by mostly urban and college originated old time revivalists  of the myth that  old time banjo is chiefly played on open back banjos. 

It is funny insofar many of the open back banjos of the Fairbanks and Vega vintage. especially many conversions like the 1923 Vega pot with a 5 string neck  I should be pickingh instead of typing here were originally built as resonator banjos or came with a detachable resonator, that got lost or jettisoned over the years.

 

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It was about 30 years ago that I bought a 1928 Vega Tubaphone tenor, and had a simple five string semi-fretless neck made for it by a local luthier.   Until recently, it was my "go to" banjo.  The resonator on the Vega attaches with a bolt through a hole in the center of the plate, which goes into a bracket that fits on the dowel stick.  The previous owner had overtightened the screw, which collapsed the resonator plate at the center, creating a huge dimple.  I tried to return it to its original profile, with no success.  So I went online to ebay, where I immediately found three Vega resonators that had been removed by their old timey owners, because in those days, yes, it was verboten to have a resonator banjo in an old time jam.  They were practically giving them away. and I bought them all.  I bought a set of the flanges, too, in case I ever needed to replace any of mine.  

The old time music revival that started back in the 60s made a great many changes to the culture of old time music that were far more important than just removing the banjo resonators.  I remember when I made the trip from Boston down to Union Grove and Galax a couple of times in the early 70s, the local players would say to me, "It's so great to see you northern kids playing this music, our own kids don't want to play it, they laugh at us.  All they want to play is country and western or rock and roll."  Now, I recognize that's an exaggeration, but I think it is mostly true.  But us "northern" kids made a lot of changes while we were at it.  Probably most important was the creation of the old time jam.  We were mostly city kids, and we lived minutes, not hours away from our musically like minded neighbors.  Most Sunday afternoons, I drive over to a church in Brookline, Massachusetts, where a nice young musical family hosts a jam.  We all sit in the spacious church hall in a big circle, between 20 to 30 participants, of all skill levels.  The jam leader announces the key, and we go around the circle, each attendee introducing the tune they want to play.  If someone has trouble starting their tune, the other players will gently musically nudge them into it.  If someone starts the tune at a slower than normal tempo, we stay at that comfortable tempo, no one speeds it up, or only just a little, gradually.  Now I admit, this jam is unusually considerate, and unusually large, but in general, local old time jam sessions are welcoming affairs.  (When you go to Clifftop, that's another matter altogether.)  The result is that a lot of new players come into the music all the time.  Today, there is at least one public old time jam in every metropolitan area across the country.  Anybody can join.

Another thing about old time music today is that it is mostly fiddle tune oriented.  Now, that is not a stark contrast from the old days back in the mountains, where a public engagement for a fiddle player was to play tunes either for a dance or at a contest.  But if you listen to the old time bands on the old 78 recordings form the 20s and 30s, groups like the Skillet Lickers or the North Carolina Ramblers, vocals were at least as prominent as the fiddle tunes.  When Dock Boggs made his recordings, almost all of them were vocals.  Still, fiddlers mostly focused on tunes, even then.  When Ralph and Carter needed a fiddler back in the day, they were approached by a young Art Stamper.  Ralph said in his autobiography that they had to send him home, because he had no idea how to back a vocal.  To their surprise, he came back a few months later ready to go, after having played nonstop along with their records.  They hired him on the spot.

The young city folk made another major change to old time music that we rarely talk about.  They restricted it mostly to fiddle, banjo and guitar, with a wilingness to let in a mandolin or upright base if they agree to behave themselves and not sound like bluegrass.  But back in the day, a lot of other instruments were played by old time mountain musicians, including accordian, harmonica, autoharp, mountain and hammered dulcimer, Hawaiian style guitar, piano, and even spoons (or bones).  Years ago, i used to busk with a fiddler and guitar player in Harvard Square.  Once in awhile, we were joined by an old man everyone called Mr. Bones.  As soon as he showed up, our tips would triple.  He would never accept a dime.  If you think that's extreme, I still remember Frank George playing bagpipes at a couple of his concerts!  

I think one of the good things about old time music is that you can't make any money at it.  Most of the folks I know of who live exclusively on their musical earnings are making most of the money teaching their instrument, not playing before audiences. It isn't a music that very many people drive miles to listen to, it's a music they drive miles to play.  I haven't gone busking with my pals since before Covid, but even on our best days, we barely made minimum wage.  Didn't bother me, I live modestly but comfortably on my government pension, thank you very much.  The fact that old time music is not a cash cow, I believe, is how it retains it's collectivist, participatory nature, not dominated by a handful of experts.

So did the hippies ruin old time music?  Nope, they changed it, mostly for the better.  They kept it alive, we kept it alive, and made it stronger than ever. 

- Don B.

Today, I think a significant reason why some choose to have or not have a resonator on their banjo is for the purpose of signaling that they embrace one musical genre rather than the other.

Yes, that is a wise post from a wise and experienced person. I encountered old time music first in the early 60s in high school in Hartford by buying NLCR recordings which were hard to get sold only at Fox's not at Korvette's. I did not drive but an older ace Banjo player and singer the late Don Sineti ((many kn=ew as Moose) was just out of high school and had a car and lived in my direction from most places where music was played. I played guitar and aspired to the banjo but never got one until I was 52 living in Miami. Very much of old time music get togethers, or what old time music fanciers played when we got together were SONGS with words as at least we came out of folk music. When I went away to College in DC and got a j-45, and would come home for the summer more of a circle of OTM players opened to me, including people up in Massachusetts a great distance of 30 miles North, like the great fiddler and general lariken George Dennis Clifford.

Old time music had much more singing back then. There were fewer fiddlers. It was NOT as separate from Bluegrass which was much bigger even there in New England and was Gigantic when I went to school in DC and often people who wanted to play old time went to Bluegrass events to meet up as we still did here in South Florida 20 years ago.

There was much less information about banjo history, and much f what was available was dead wrong.

My own journey as a musician reflects on the intellectual limitations of many in the banjo, bluegrass, and old time music worlds I encounter though not much different from my own before I was enjoined to do serious banjo history research about 25 years ago. We all had fairly primitive and stereotypical ideas that the holy grail was some true and pure folk tradition being corrupted by sinful modernistic capitalism that had gotten the music ejected from the Garden of Eden, Playing old time music or"true" blues was some kind of way back to less damaged times to purer culture untouched by modernism.

This contrasted with what I should have listened to from my elders. I grew up in a house (a New England "double decker) with 8 inhabitants. Four of them were children of people who had been enslaved in Virginia. My mother had grown up in Gary WVa when it was the largest coal mining operation on Earth, a company town controlled by US Coal and Coke, the captive mines of United States Steel. None of these people looked whistfully back at the past of the 20s, 30s or 40s either in the Jim Crow Virginia, or in de Jim Crowing Connecticut as something to get back to.

The banjo world (or rather the 5-string banjo world as we do not much include the huge proprition of US and world banjoists who play the banjos with picks and play banjos with even numbered strings) has spent now very much of its life when there has been no real folk component of banjo playing by people who play banjo from any kind of folk tradition or role of banjo playing for living community functions. Bluegrass of course is the most dynamic and crucial part of the banjo world today precisely because it is an always innovating, modern, progressive music that demands an increasingly level of musical virtuosity and thought, and is powered by musicians who actually have to make a living with their music.

I do not think I would have encountered any of this if I had not heard a Mercury reissue of the original Flatt and Scruggs recordings, a reject from a nearby radio station that did not play bluegrass, in a little record store in my neighborhood in Hartford,