Hi Jack,

Thanks for the post. I'm glad you got my meaning as I intended. I love your tab work...Jack

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Originally posted by jack_beuthin

quote:

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Originally posted by Jack Baker

Hi Jack,

I do think that double C tuning is more convenient for some Clawhammer players because there are less chords involved and it's easier to play melody notes. Some people choose double C because they can capo it up 2 frets to double D which suits some people's voices better. Like yours, uses of the terms Mixolydian, Dorian and other Modes are entirely yours with respect to this particular discussion.

What is confusing so many is the mention of "Modes" when it's really about convenience. Modal tunings are really just a different way of hearing the banjo sound you might prefer for your own reasons.

I call these tunings "preferences" of sound. Modes are always derived from a scale. You cannot always form chords from a some Modes since a chord is generally thought of as being the 1st., 3rd., & 5th step of a Scale. Mjaor or Minor scales differ of course.

If you believe any of what I've just spouted I'd be amazed HA....Jack

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Originally posted by jack_beuthin

 

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Well Jack, this all sounds right on to me.  I like your term "preferences", much like Wade Ward's "atmospheres.  Gets away from the idea that there is a rigid approach to tunings and melodies and modes.  Good stuff.

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Beautifully played. I often find myself playing nearly chromatically when I have a chance to. I think every note can fit if the musician has the skill.

When I play bluegrass, on any instrument, I usually find a way to fit every interval into the song except the minor second.

When I play OT I almost always gravitate towards the flat seventh. I love the idea of reinvigorating an old tune by switching modes so this is a refreshing take on MS Sawyer.

Very cool! Always wanted to experiment more with modes. Thanks for the awesome content!

quote:why not study the banjo which can develop your ear for the banjo just as well if you are a banjoist.  I have nothing against the lap dulcimer, played one 50 years before I finally broke down and got me a banjo,

You actually need to know what mode you are in to play any melody from a formal musicological sense,

Learn the modes on the banjo in every key and every tuning that you play and you will profit much.  This is actually something formal jazz teaching on any instrument provides.

 

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Originally posted by mmuussiiccaall

BTW forum members, if you don't know ahead of time where he is going to move his fingers to get into the modes, you don't know the theory and as he says you WILL have to rely on your musical ears instead. You could study the lap dulcimer to develop your ear because they have to know what mode they are in in order to play the melody.

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Originally posted by trapdoor2

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Originally posted by Jack Baker

Marc,

Your tableditting of all those tabs on your profile tab page is great. One could certainly look at Modes your way and be very happy...Jack

Hi Jack! Yes, I have studied modes academically but sometimes they just happen and I find out later!

I just had a hard-drive failure and have had a service trying to recover my files. When I think of the hundreds (500+ in Tabledit, ~250 in Musescore) of Tabs I may have lost...makes my guts churn!

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Law of the universe first learned with a hot computer was the dear old IBM MVS with Fortran compiler.  Every hard drive will fail,  Do not keep anythin you do not want to lose on one drive,  BACKUP BACK UP

For another example of modal playing, Charlie Daniels' song, "The South is Gonna do it Again" melody is in Mixolydian mode. The music is written down as the key of A (three sharps) but the melody has no G#, only G naturals.

Awesome work! always love it when a music theory post makes it to the top of the hangout!
 

I made a similar post putting Coleman's March through all seven modes a few years back for those who are interested:

Colemans March through the modes

Locrian (certainly not frequently encountered in old time) sounds Bananas...
 

Bill Rogers I'd like to suggest that Jack's initial post be added to the sticky topics.

This is great, Thank you Jack!

Jack Beuthin - That was beautiful and amazing. Well explained, too. Thank you so much. I feel you have made a real and important contribution to the craft. Well Done!

Wow, this was one of those spur of the moment ideas that seemed kind of cool, but I had no idea that it would generate this much response. All your thoughts and feedback are much appreciated, and I am gratified to know that this little exercise turned out to be meaningful. Thanks everyone!

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Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

Bill Rogers I'd like to suggest that Jack's initial post be added to the sticky topics.

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Done. Good idea. Thanks.

This is Quite Helpful.

jack_beuthin Do you mind if I use both of these in my Western NC Folklore class?

We do a music section on Mondays, and I am trying to get some basic theory in.

TBS

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Originally posted by erehwesle

This is Quite Helpful.

jack_beuthin Do you mind if I use both of these in my Western NC Folklore class?

We do a music section on Mondays, and I am trying to get some basic theory in.

TBS

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Please do, that's why I posted it.  I also have some videos on different tunings.  One on G versus Sawmill G, one on playing different modes in Double C, and one on the F tuning.  I also have three videos on learning drop thumb and other topics.  You might find some of these pertinent to your interests.  I have a bunch of other YouTube playlists too that you might want to explore, including a "Tunes with Tabs" list with 100+ banjo tunes with linked tabs (saved here on the BHO).

Jack's Banjo Talk: https://www.youtube.com/playlist? list=PL00z9mDkwwfeZPE1otNCvTWuNyfq1hzDt

Drop Thumb lessons: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL00z9mDkwwfe3AJXXz4BnSiDepvbw-hOz

Tunes with Tabs: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL00z9mDkwwfefdIPHvcnca7dehR_oXhRn

Outstanding jack_beuthin

Thank you for your efforts.

I will take a good look.

TBS

Very informative post! I've been playing claw hammer style since 2021 and just recently joined the hangout. Lots of good information and advice from people like yourself. Thanks to all who post and pass along playing experiences. This helps keep the craft alive!

Jack,

This is beautiful work.

Tom

For people who prefer a fretboard layout over tab there is this. 1. Set any tuning in the "Tuning" tab. 2. Set the key and mode in the "Scale" tab. 3. The "Chords" tab shows the diatonic chords for the selected mode.

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d...p=sharing

I retired from a job where I needed to think and do these things to keep thinking.

hi Jack...greetings from Wisconsin...nicely done...reminds me of a session at a fest...decades ago...we were fixing to play Miss. Sawyer and one of us asked...not about the mode...at least not directly...but about whether the C would be sharp or natural in the B part...and our bass player suggested we alternate...like each time thru...and she called out what note to play there...then we got all deviant and she would call out F...or B flat...and somehow...it worked...as deviant as B flat would sound there...when we all did it...well..it worked

This was brilliant, Jack! Thank you for sharing

Acts of generosity  and intelligence such as Jack has done here and in  useful instructinal material he has put online should be rewarded with our complete thanks. Life is about giving, and Jack is a good giver!  We should emulate him.

Thank you

a few thousand years ago some folks in Greece figured out these names.  But they were unable to post to Banjo Hangout at that time!

Despite going through modes in Theory class, for folk music I tend to operate in the "preferences" and "atmospheres" vein of, "D Major," "D Minor," "D-Major-ish" and "D-Minor-ish." But Mr. B's swellegant demo is quite the thing!

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Originally posted by writerrad

Acts of generosity  and intelligence such as Jack has done here and in  useful instructinal material he has put online should be rewarded with our complete thanks. Life is about giving, and Jack is a good giver!  We should emulate him.

 

Thank you

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Thank you Tony!

Very nice. Thanks!