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When you're learning a new tune, whether on the fly, or through focused practice and study, it helps to not only know the key you are in but also the mode of that key. Modes can be a confusing topic, and purely theoretical explanations often leave my head spinning, and wondering how it all applies.
Here's a little something I cooked up that might help if you are trying to get a handle on modes. First off, the good news is that for most traditional/old time music, there are really only four modes in common use.
In this video I play Mississippi Sawyer (key of C, Double C tuning), first in its usual major (Ionian) mode, and then I shift it into the Mixolydian mode, followed by a time through in the Dorian ("mountain minor") mode, and finally once through in the fully minor (Aeolian) mode. Listen and try and pick up the shifts in the C scale that correspond to each modal change (there is more explanation in the YouTube description). If you can get your ears to "understand" these modes, then that is probably better than any theory of modes you might read. And once you get your fingers to cooperate with your ears, you are going to start playing at a whole new level.
A tab corresponding to this demo is attached.
Edited by - Bill Rogers on 03/26/2023 21:18:17
Very cool demo of the concept of modes in the real context of a tune! Really brilliant, we need more of this!
Music theory gets nebulous when relying only on the written word.
Thanks for sharing!
quote:
Originally posted by ChunoTheDogVery cool demo of the concept of modes in the real context of a tune! Really brilliant, we need more of this!
Music theory gets nebulous when relying only on the written word.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Antoine. I agree totally about 'nebulous music theory'. My question is always, "Yeah, but how does that work on the banjo?" It is often hard to get an answer, but when you do, it can be very enlightening.
It took me so long back in the day for someone to tell me "just find out where sounds live on the neck"...this was for the bass, that mentality always stuck with me after that
Intriguing, Jack. Nicely played.
Hi Jack,
Very interesting way of demonstrating the different modes you've chosen. One tuning fits all. Neat!! Modes are decided by where the 1/2 steps fall in all 7 of them. I'm talking about "Classic" piano modes or white keys beginning with Middle C if you like --not necessary but usually how I taught it at NYUseless for 35 plus years HA....If you break any of the 1/2 step rules then are you really still playing in a particular mode?....cheers Jack.....Jack
ote:Originally posted by jack_beuthin
Jack, it looks like they have a name for everything!
BTW forum members, if you don't know ahead of time where he is going to move his fingers to get into the modes, you don't know the theory and as he says you WILL have to rely on your musical ears instead. You could study the lap dulcimer to develop your ear because they have to know what mode they are in in order to play the melody.
So funny,
This site is talking about Scales really. I was just talking about Basic 7 Piano modes. Yes, there are hundreds of them (scales, modes) but they are no longer Modal in the basic sense...Jack
Originally posted by mmuussiiccaallJack, it looks like they have a name for everything!
https://ianring.com/musictheory/scales/finder.php
Funny. My picking buddy Patrick and I were playing MS Sawyer one time and it morphed into Minor (aeolian) for a while and then back to Major. We've been morphing it since.
I often accidently drop it into Mixolydian without noticing. IOW, I think it is a great choice for the demo. Well done!
Marc,
Your tableditting of all those tabs on your profile tab page is great. One could certainly look at Modes your way and be very happy...Jack
Originally posted by trapdoor2Funny. My picking buddy Patrick and I were playing MS Sawyer one time and it morphed into Minor (aeolian) for a while and then back to Major. We've been morphing it since.
I often accidently drop it into Mixolydian without noticing. IOW, I think it is a great choice for the demo. Well done!
Edited by - Jack Baker on 03/20/2023 15:35:15
quote:
Originally posted by Jack BakerMarc,Your tableditting of all those tabs on your profile tab page is great. One could certainly look at Modes your way and be very happy...Jack
Hi Jack! Yes, I have studied modes academically but sometimes they just happen and I find out later!
I just had a hard-drive failure and have had a service trying to recover my files. When I think of the hundreds (500+ in Tabledit, ~250 in Musescore) of Tabs I may have lost...makes my guts churn!
Another thanks to you Jack; you always give me something interesting to work on!
Oh Wow Marc!
I certainly hope not. Technicians can work magic. They are all probably somewhere on one of your drives....I sure hope so. I always back my site up once a month on a Gizmo....uh....Flash Drive.....I'm hoping they can be retrieved....Jack
Originally posted by trapdoor2quote:
Originally posted by Jack BakerMarc,Your tableditting of all those tabs on your profile tab page is great. One could certainly look at Modes your way and be very happy...JackHi Jack! Yes, I have studied modes academically but sometimes they just happen and I find out later!I just had a hard-drive failure and have had a service trying to recover my files. When I think of the hundreds (500+ in Tabledit, ~250 in Musescore) of Tabs I may have lost...makes my guts churn!
Edited by - Jack Baker on 03/20/2023 16:39:12
Nicely done Jack!
When you start them all on the same note it really brings out the connections and differences between them. You can hear mixolydian as major with the 7th scale degree lowered and Dorian as minor with the 6th raised back up to where it is in major. Those notes really pop in the video!
Jack Baker: Greetings from a fellow music theory prof! (Between the two of us we should be able to put everybody to sleep in no time! Ha!)
John
quote:
Originally posted by jack_beuthinWhen you're learning a new tune, whether on the fly, or through focused practice and study, it helps to not only know the key you are in but also the mode of that key. Modes can be a confusing topic, and purely theoretical explanations often leave my head spinning, and wondering how it all applies...
That was an inspired demonstration, Jack, crisply played and clearly stated. I am one of those who likes to get deep into the esoteric of modes, but I am going to exercise some uncharacteristic self restraint, and just enjoy listening to your notes and words tell the story.
Edited by - Don Borchelt on 03/21/2023 06:44:00
the original mode concept is long gone in history--and nowdays -a good percentage of the originals need to stay long gone--certain genres pick up the ones that had cool sounds which is what you have opened my eyes to further here--I will probably try to pull this on a few tunes myself--thanks
now I ponder what chords I use on the 2 that are not the regular major and minor on Mississippi Sawyer--I use non third chords on things like Pretty Polly but that is my knowledge limit
THANKS
Ha,
I think this is already Fast Asleep....Engineers have taken over the world of banjos....I never play anymore, I just analyze and yes, I have ALL of the answers
...I'm going back to the easy stuff--quantum physics...
Originally posted by jlinkNicely done Jack!
When you start them all on the same note it really brings out the connections and differences between them. You can hear mixolydian as major with the 7th scale degree lowered and Dorian as minor with the 6th raised back up to where it is in major. Those notes really pop in the video!
Jack Baker: Greetings from a fellow music theory prof! (Between the two of us we should be able to put everybody to sleep in no time! Ha!)
John
Edited by - Jack Baker on 03/21/2023 07:53:38
This is much easier to understand than Modes:
The energy E of the quantum is related to the frequency ν by E = hν. The quantity h, now known as Planck's constant, is a universal constant with the approximate value of 6.62607 × 10−34 joule?second. Planck showed that the calculated energy spectrum then agreed with observation over the entire wavelength range.
Edited by - Jack Baker on 03/21/2023 08:05:06
I'm gratified to see that this has stimulated some discussion, and hopefully some enlightenment. This is certainly not the classical way to approach modes, but if it has provided a hook to get someone struggling with modes to wrap the head, ears and fingers around the concept a bit better, then mission accomplished. In a practical sense, it's mostly about your ear directing your fingers on the fretboard to get the right notes. How you get to that is perhaps not as important as actually getting to that (there are several paths).
Jack Baker: Yes, the Double C tuning has the unique characteristic of handling all four of the common modes. Notes on the open strings occur in all four modes. A while ago, I created a YT video on the modal versatility of the Double C tuning (https://youtu.be/ZozqXWiy_lU) that is a good companion the Mississippi Sawyer video. No wonder this is such a popular tuning! And yes, back to modes, it is all about where the half step fall. I used to start with that explanation and usually got glazed eyes in no time. Playing those modes, and getting a student to hear them seems to be a much better attention getter, which then provides a foundation for talking about half steps.
John Link: Thanks for your input! Good to know that I haven't done the theory of modes any real disservice. Again, this presentation really is a hook/attention getter to help someone get started with applying modes in their playing.
Don Borchelt: Locrian Sawyer is calling you! Thanks for chiming in.
quote:
Originally posted by Tractor1the original mode concept is long gone in history--and now-a-days -a good percentage of the originals need to stay long gone--certain genres pick up the ones that had cool sounds which is what you have opened my eyes to further here--I will probably try to pull this on a few tunes myself--thanks
now I ponder what chords I use on the 2 that are not the regular major and minor on Mississippi Sawyer--I use non third chords on things like Pretty Polly but that is my knowledge limit
THANKS
As in the Major scale, the chords (triads) are derived from every other note of the scale, no matter the mode..
Ok Jack,
Thanks for the post. I haven't had too many problems with teaching the Piano Modes and how to relate them to different banjo tunings but your way certainly works. I must admit to teaching many double C banjo songs in G tuning also. Double C tuning does have that nice dissonant sound though...Jack
Originally posted by jack_beuthin
Edited by - Jack Baker on 03/21/2023 08:53:45
quote:
Originally posted by mmuussiiccaallquote:
Originally posted by Tractor1the original mode concept is long gone in history--and now-a-days -a good percentage of the originals need to stay long gone--certain genres pick up the ones that had cool sounds which is what you have opened my eyes to further here--I will probably try to pull this on a few tunes myself--thanks
now I ponder what chords I use on the 2 that are not the regular major and minor on Mississippi Sawyer--I use non third chords on things like Pretty Polly but that is my knowledge limit
THANKSAs in the Major scale, the chords (triads) are derived from every other note of the scale, no matter the mode..
yes but what exact chords --could possibly harmonize good--kinda curious what folks might have come up with by ear --
Edited by - Tractor1 on 03/21/2023 09:05:16
Hi Jack,
I do think that double C tuning is more convenient for some Clawhammer players because there are less chords involved and it's easier to play melody notes. Some people choose double C because they can capo it up 2 frets to double D which suits some people's voices better. Like yours, uses of the terms Mixolydian, Dorian and other Modes are entirely yours with respect to this particular discussion.
What is confusing so many is the mention of "Modes" when it's really about convenience. Modal tunings are really just a different way of hearing the banjo sound you might prefer for your own reasons.
I call these tunings "preferences" of sound. Modes are always derived from a scale. You cannot always form chords from a some Modes since a chord is generally thought of as being the 1st., 3rd., & 5th step of a Scale. Mjaor or Minor scales differ of course.
If you believe any of what I've just spouted I'd be amazed HA....Jack
Originally posted by jack_beuthin
Edited by - Jack Baker on 03/21/2023 12:15:08
quote:
Originally posted by Jack BakerHi Jack,I do think that double C tuning is more convenient for some Clawhammer players because there are less chords involved and it's easier to play melody notes. Some people choose double C because they can capo it up 2 frets to double D which suits some people's voices better. Like yours, uses of the terms Mixolydian, Dorian and other Modes are entirely yours with respect to this particular discussion.What is confusing so many is the mention of "Modes" when it's really about convenience. Modal tunings are really just a different way of hearing the banjo sound you might prefer for your own reasons.I call these tunings "preferences" of sound. Modes are always derived from a scale. You cannot always form chords from a some Modes since a chord is generally thought of as being the 1st., 3rd., & 5th step of a Scale. Mjaor or Minor scales differ of course.If you believe any of what I've just spouted I'd be amazed HA....Jack
Originally posted by jack_beuthin
Well Jack, this all sounds right on to me. I like your term "preferences", much like Wade Ward's "atmospheres. Gets away from the idea that there is a rigid approach to tunings and melodies and modes. Good stuff.
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