schlange - Posted - 09/15/2013:  21:43:24

Alright, based on this discussion let's get our practice group going!

Note: this group is actually "restricted" to 6 folks who said they were interested. If you're not one of those 6 you can still post to this thread to answer questions, etc. But what I'm really hoping for is some camaraderie to build among the members of this small group, so if just the group posts I'll be happy with that.

To start things off, I thought it would be cool if each group member could post a little about yourself: where you're at with banjo playing, and what your goals are long-term (a couple years ago) and short term (in a month). That will help us get to know each other and see what everyone is shooting for.

As far as I'm concerned we can start logging our practices ASAP. How about we start tomorrow (9/16)?

winnipegbanjoman - Posted - 09/16/2013:  05:00:28

Hi Eric, Hi Group!

A bit about me:  I started playing in high school, learned some tunes, and after a couple of years, put the instrument away for a long time (years).  I would pick it up periodically over the years, but it really spent more time in the case than in my hands.  About eight years ago, I signed on with a teacher and took lessons for a few years. It helped a lot. I still don't jam much - but I'm hoping to change that. I've met some folks over the summer that are interested in jamming.

I'm able to work out pretty basic arrangements of tunes on my own, and I've transcribed some complex tunes by slowing down CD's (which I've found to be a good learning tool on its own), and I read tab reasonably well.  My playing isn't nearly as clean as I'd like it to be, and I'd like to be able to "think on my feet" more - to be able to improvise, even if it's just taking little steps away from the stuff I already know.

Short term goals - better fingerboard knowledge, wider repertoire of licks to draw from, 2 new tunes for the next month, and clean up 2 tunes that I've been working on for awhile.

Long term goals -- wider repertoire of tunes, jam more often, cleaner playing, some ability to improvise without halting to think

I actually started yesterday.  Logged an hour, broken out in 15 minutes pieces:

1.  Pentatonic scales - G/Em, single string and melodic fingering - position 1 and 2 (using Pat Cloud's Key to 5 String Banjo)

2. Licks & Backup - I'm going to work my way through Janet Davis' Back-Up Banjo book.  Worked through pp 21 - 23 (I'd started this book last week)

3.  Tune - FM Special. I've been messing with this for awhile and still can't play it very effectively. I'd like to fix that.

4.  Ear Training - working my way through Jack Hatfield's book, How to Play by Ear. Worked through pp 8-11

That's it for now.  I think I can squeeze in 30 minutes of practice before work.

Joe the banjo guy - Posted - 09/16/2013:  05:30:49

Hi folks,

My name's Joe.  I've been playing for a long long time, but haven't taken it very seriously until a couple of years ago.  For how long I've been playing, I should probably should be a lot better than I am :)  I play in an Americana band called Indiana Boys (theindianaboys.com). 

Goals?  In terms of three finger picking, I'm basically interested in learning new licks that I can incorporate into my playing.  Basically, learning licks that fit well in different chords, so I can add some pizzazz to my improv.  This includes some of the standard bluegrass licks.  I know some of them, but not as many or as well as I should (though I rarely play bluegrass per se).  A secondary goal might be to learn a new tune or three, or some of the fancier versions of tunes I already sorta know.

In terms of clawhammer, just learning new tunes, I suppose. 

Edited by - Joe the banjo guy on 09/16/2013 05:31:12

Joe the banjo guy - Posted - 09/16/2013:  05:31:56

BTW, I think i'm going to start making my way through John Boulding's Lick of the Week videos.

piscesgrrl - Posted - 09/16/2013:  07:24:43

I'm sorry I missed the initial post about this group, but I was at a music camp so I can't complain!

I really like this idea and I will be keeping a log. I've been playing just over two years and I am enjoying the journey. As a music teacher I know how I am supposed to structure my practice time. As a human being I know that I do what ever I feel like when I sit down with the banjo.

I have made a commitment to play the banjo with my students, so I will often work on a song or two to prepare for their performance. I think I am making very slow progress in my ability to hear a melody and pick it out, but it's usually 5 minutes after the song has ended in the jam. I need to sit for longer periods of time with one song.

Hopefully this month will allow me to track my practice habits so that in a couple of years I can be a contributing member of our jams. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm off to make a log book.

swamplunker - Posted - 09/16/2013:  07:28:30

My name is Sean, and, like Nestor I had a long period of owning a banjo that sat on a shelf, literally, no case. Although I started with violin (lessons, orchestras) at 10 and guitar (self taught) at 16, I didn't try a banjo until 1988 which was a 50$ one from a pawnshop in Monroe, Louisiana. I lived in an apartment in El Dorado, Arkansas and my neighbor showed me a few rolls( I'm 55 now). Then I moved to Florida, and it sat on a shelf for over ten years until my buddy Bob traded me a Framus which looked worse but played better. I started using it in a little acoustic group doing forward and backward rolls, the only two I knew, mixed with single string melodies, but definitely not Don Reno. A couple years later I "upgraded" to an Alvarez, then a Gibson RB250. I eventually got a Scruggs standard model and a Stelling Sunflower and Crusader, all used, of course. The 250 is my workhorse for playing out and practicing. I would get a little more serious with each better banjo I think, got the Murphy Henry DVDs and bought a big plastic tub of books from a guy who was switching to mandolin, Splitting the Licks has been hands down the most useful, somewhere along the way I taught myself to read tab. I year ago I started practicing harder than ever before, and I've always written down little riffs and pieces I think of in tab. This year finds me distracted by the computer and the sideline of assembling some banjos with BHO and Ebay parts, and starting to make my own necks. But I've been TV-free for about five years, no kids, and have a flexible work schedule. You have time for what you really want to do. I have a buddy Dave that I play strictly bluegrass with, and we play open mikes. I alternate banjo and fiddle, and he alternates guitar and mando. As a sideman in two other groups, I'm just beginning to work the banjo in for a couple songs, I should zero in on a good pickup to use. That''s enough blabbing, I'll do goals next time.

schlange - Posted - 09/16/2013:  09:46:03

Most of you probably know who I am (the guy who started the BHO) but you don't know much about my actual banjo playing. To be honest, it's a bit embarrassing to talk about, because while I run the world's most popular banjo site, and have access to great instruments and learning materials, I just haven't put in the practice time to reach a decent level of proficiency on the banjo. Hence my creating this "experiment."

Where I'm At

I began playing music seriously my senior of High School (1997) on guitar. Most of my musical experience has been leading worship bands at church (I've got a couple clips posted here), playing modern worship styles (which are really just pop/rock). I picked up the drums about 4 years ago and love playing those as well. So the instruments I'm comfortable on in a jam setting at this point are guitar, vocals, and drums. Banjo..... I'm semi-comfortable with. I'm very comfortable with music theory (I love it) so that isn't an issue for me. Really, 90% of my challenge with banjo is my right hand. 

One reason I need to get practicing is because I seem to be accumulating banjos at a rapid pace.  Currently I have my cheap "Tempo" (my first banjo, Christmas of 1999--it inspired the creation of BHO), a Goodtime 2, a Bell & Son minstrel, an Iida tenor I rescued from a fire, a Reiter Buckbee, and my bluegrass workhorse, a Sullivan Walnut V-35.

I think the root of my banjo challenge is that I don't have a place to play it with others consistently. Because my life is so full these days, I'm only driven to practice when I'm "playing out." Sad but true!

Long-Term Goals:

• Build up my repertoire so I'm comfortable playing most standards


• Build up picking accuracy and speed


• Learn to improvise decently

Short-Term Goals (this month):

• Find someone to play with on a regular basis


• Learn a couple new songs


• Build up my backup chops (especially rolls) so I can play cleanly at a faster clip


• Keep a practice log and post a summary of what I did each day to this thread

winnipegbanjoman: I've also decided to work through Janet Davis' Back-up Banjo book. Just started it this morning. I think I'm going to work my way through that book, and also through the Murphy Method DVDs so I can learn those tunes (I'm already partway through those).

This morning I started the Janet Davis book, playing through all the exercises. About 45 minutes of practice.

andspence - Posted - 09/16/2013:  10:14:28

Hello Group!

I started playing in the summer of 2011.  I didn't really have any direction, I just kind of wanted to learn.  That's what I had done with the guitar when I was a kid.  However, because of no direction or goals, I progressed on the guitar slowly, and really can't do a whole lot (and it's been about 20 years).  I didn't want that to happen on the banjo, so I researched and figured out a direction.

My broad goal is to be able to be able to jam with others and come up with decent breaks on my own, somewhat on the fly.  I appreciate tab, but don't want to be dependent on it.  My method so far at achieving this is two-fold.  Part 1 (it's a big one) is learn every song out of the Scruggs book exactly like Earl played (I use the tab along with Amazing SlowDowner) - and "exactly like Earl played" really means as close as I can get. Part 2 is create melody-based solos on my own for songs that I like - or potentially already know.

These two parts have gone together fairly well.  Learning the Scruggs tunes exactly, gives me Earl-Building-Blocks for creating other solos.  Creating my own solos helps train my ear, and learn the fingerboard.

I just finished (although I never feel I'm finished) with Ground Speed and submitted for the rookie contest - finished 10/87.  I'm trying to decide  on my next Scruggs tune - I think it's between Fireball Mail, and Sally Ann.

The solos I'm currently working on are "Happy Birthday" as silly as that is, and "Down the Road".

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 09/16/2013:  11:02:58

quote:

---

Originally posted by schlange

 

Most of you probably know who I am (the guy who started the BHO) but you don't know much about my actual banjo playing. To be honest, it's a bit embarrassing to talk about, because while I run the world's most popular banjo site, and have access to great instruments and learning materials, I just haven't put in the practice time to reach a decent level of proficiency on the banjo. Hence my creating this "experiment."

Where I'm At

I began playing music seriously my senior of High School (1997) on guitar. Most of my musical experience has been leading worship bands at church (I've got a couple clips posted here), playing modern worship styles (which are really just pop/rock). I picked up the drums about 4 years ago and love playing those as well. So the instruments I'm comfortable on in a jam setting at this point are guitar, vocals, and drums. Banjo..... I'm semi-comfortable with. I'm very comfortable with music theory (I love it) so that isn't an issue for me. Really, 90% of my challenge with banjo is my right hand. 

One reason I need to get practicing is because I seem to be accumulating banjos at a rapid pace.  Currently I have my cheap "Tempo" (my first banjo, Christmas of 1999--it inspired the creation of BHO), a Goodtime 2, a Bell & Son minstrel, an Iida tenor I rescued from a fire, a Reiter Buckbee, and my bluegrass workhorse, a Sullivan Walnut V-35.

I think the root of my banjo challenge is that I don't have a place to play it with others consistently. Because my life is so full these days, I'm only driven to practice when I'm "playing out." Sad but true!

Long-Term Goals:

• Build up my repertoire so I'm comfortable playing most standards


• Build up picking accuracy and speed


• Learn to improvise decently

Short-Term Goals (this month):

• Find someone to play with on a regular basis


• Learn a couple new songs


• Build up my backup chops (especially rolls) so I can play cleanly at a faster clip


• Keep a practice log and post a summary of what I did each day to this thread

winnipegbanjoman: I've also decided to work through Janet Davis' Back-up Banjo book. Just started it this morning. I think I'm going to work my way through that book, and also through the Murphy Method DVDs so I can learn those tunes (I'm already partway through those).

This morning I started the Janet Davis book, playing through all the exercises. About 45 minutes of practice.

---

Hi Eric

May I offer a couple suggestions to add to your study program...

1. Geoff Hohwald's Chords Rhythm & Backup 101 - To help you get your feet wet and ease you into playing back up. freeguitarvideos.com/banjo/backup.html

2. Jack Hatfield's book on Backup this is a must set of tutorials IMHO it's better than Janet Davies book.

3. Find a good rhythm guitarist to practice with.

swamplunker - Posted - 09/16/2013:  14:23:05

I really like Nestors' idea of splitting an hour into four distinct compartments. I might even put in a five minute stretch break at the half hour mark. The only way I'm going to pay attention to the time, though, is with an egg timer. Yesterday I flipped through the middle of Bluegrass Melodic Style by Janet Davis, the songs and alternate versions. The only thing I have down cold is "Red-haired boy", her version here is in G, same as in Splitting the Licks, which is why I already knew it. I somewhere learned another version in A, so when I do that with my friend Dave, I kick off the first half melody in G while he does the chord backup on guitar, then we switch, do the second part in the same way, then modulate to A. Apart from the key changes, one thing that gives it a little variety is the different variations of the notes in each key, since they're from different sources. I gotta get across town now and practice with him, I'll try to have my goals figured out by tonight.

polarbeardave - Posted - 09/16/2013:  17:03:52

Hello Eric and fellow group members,

I've always loved the sound of the banjo since I was a kid. I remember hearing my first banjo live and in person at a picnic that my uncle invited my family to. I must have been 9 or 10 years old. The sound grabbed me. Ever since then, I said someday I want to learn the banjo. Well, fast forward to March of 2009, I was approaching 50 years old, and I was sitting a local music store while my wife was taking guitar lesson and asked the owner how much a beginner level banjo would cost. At $150.00, you can guess what I started playing on, a bottle cap import. I thought it was the coolest thing I had ever bought. I found a really good instructor, and started taking lessons. As with Eric, I've accumulated a few more banjos since then. I started with the "Crestwood" bottle cap. After a year, my 1st upgrade was a Savannah with a real tone-ring!! Imagine that! I played that for a year and a half and then came across a 1987 Stelling Bellflower. That is my current main banjo. I have another old Stelling being restored by a local luthier. Should be ready in a week or two. So, I've got good banjos, but my playing isn't justifying them.



My practicing has been sporadic, and not very disciplined. I play 3 finger Scuggs style. Been learning mostly from Tab for new songs. I started jamming with a group 2 years ago, and it has been a great experience. It has taught me to keep good time, and I can anticipate chord changes. I can also sing while playing. But my limit is I can only play chords, vamp chords, pull-offs and hammer-ons and basic rolls. I've recently spent time learning some of basic back-up licks, and play them pretty good at home, but cannot work them into jamming very well. The timing of adding them in jam setting is a hurdle for me. When someone looks at me to take a break, I shake my head NO. I know I can't pull that off yet. I can play  the basic first break of FMB at home, but put me in front of other players and I fall apart quickly.



That all said, I get a chance for lesson about every 3 or 4 moths due to scheduling conflicts, both mine and my instructor. But, after every lesson, I feel the 'A-ha' moment of taking the next step. I've got a lot of the books, Janet Davis backup, Janet Davis scales, Earls book, Jack Hatfield's Scruggs Corner book, etc.



My long term goal:

To be able to confidently take a break in a jam, and become a more skilled player.

To learn how to improvise on the fly.



My short term goals:

To develop and consistent and disciplined approach toward practicing. I've got a lot of resources, but not the organization to know how to practice effectively.

To stay devoted to this thread and learn and post my progress.

To pick accurately and clean. Speed will come later, I know that.





So, off we go. I look forward to journey with this group! Bottom line is I love this instrument.



Dave

Edited by - polarbeardave on 09/16/2013 17:07:14

winnipegbanjoman - Posted - 09/16/2013:  20:25:57

Eric, Joe, Dave, Andrew, Sean,

It's a pleasure to meet you all. Special thanks to Eric for starting this group (and for building the BHO, of course!)

My log for the day:

1.  G/Em pentatonic scales - reviewed positions 1, 2 and worked on position 3, (single string and melodic) Per Pat Cloud's advice, I'm only checking tab after working it out by ear. I came up with an entirely different melodic fingering for position 2. I don't think Pat would mind.

2. Backup Banjo - pp 23-26 (more passing tones between chords)

3. Looking at Big Sciota -- Heard some people play it this summer. Very pretty tune. Looked for some versions on Youtube to listen to.  Worked on chords and noodling my way through for starters. Also worked on cleaning a Kruger Brothers tune I've been working on for awhile. 

4.  Ear training - pp 11-13.

In all, 1.5 hours today.

Edited by - winnipegbanjoman on 09/16/2013 20:26:48

andspence - Posted - 09/16/2013:  21:07:21

My Log for today (approx 45 min):

• warm up with a gospel tune, "This World is Not My Home".  Played several times, a few different ways - some people play standard I-IV-I-V - and others throw in a II chord  (I-IV-I-II-V).  I have worked this melody out before, but its a nice warmup, here's a link to a decent version


• Worked some on my own version of "Down the Road" - played along with Bluegrass Album Band at about 80% speed.  Needs more work!


• My absolute favorite song to play/sing/jam/listen to is "Your Love is Like a Flower. So I normally play that through completely - singing and all, both banjo breaks.  Tonight I also played along with Bluegrass Album Band, and worked on backup - here's a good video if my fav Ron Stewart showing good backup behind fiddle breaks


• Also did a little work on "Happy Birthday"  It feels silly, but its a break from traditional bluegrass for me, and get's my mind only on the melody and not licks I've heard before.

swamplunker - Posted - 09/16/2013:  22:12:26

I thought writing out goals would be a drag, I'm an Occupational Therapist and it sounded a bit too much like the paperwork we do, but once I got started I realized it's hard to boil them down to just a few. So, short term goals:1) Get a good scales book and learn more scales, especially melodic and harmonic minors 2) Memorize tab to Arkansas Traveler in D with high g string drop-tuned to f# 3) begin practicing stuff I have memorized with a metronome. Long Term(maybe a year) goals: 1) Get rock steady in timing (may require an extension!) 2)Learn more songs in other keys without a capo (besides Frosty Morning in F by Bela Fleck and Ark. Traveler in D) 3)Learn Bill Knopf's version of Blackberry Blossom 4) Learn Powder Creek by Alan Munde, which is my equivalent to Foggy Mountain Breakdown, Jed Clampett ,Deliverance or whatever made you pull the car over the first time you heard it.

schlange - Posted - 09/17/2013:  09:19:18

This morning's practice log (I have to start practice at 6:15AM for it to work out in my house)--50 minutes of practice today:

• Pages 19-23 of the Back-up Banjo book (man, this thing is packed with backup ideas!) Trying to play the various vamp patterns a lot to lock them into my head, but I'll need to play them a lot more in order to use them easily in a jam setting. Thinking I may want to get a "virtual bluegrass band" thing up on my laptop so I can "jam" using the various patterns.


• Refresher course on Murphy Method songs, ready to start working on Foggy Mountain Breakdown again tomorrow

andspence - Posted - 09/17/2013:  09:28:14

quote:

---

Originally posted by schlange

 

"Thinking I may want to get a "virtual bluegrass band" thing up on my laptop so I can "jam" using the various patterns"

---

Good Morning Eric!  Good job making practice work in the household schedule.  My practice normally has to be between dinner and bedtime for my 6 year old (bathtime usually).

What options are there for a virtual bluegrass band?  I play along with recordings through Amazing Slowdowner, but something that was just a backing track would sometimes be easier.

Andrew

schlange - Posted - 09/17/2013:  10:06:20

Virtual bluegrass band options--there are a lot! I definitely prefer playing along to "real instrument" tracks that have the banjo taken out. That said, here are options I've used:

• Over 200 MIDIs from Dave Marshall here: homepage.ntlworld.com/d.k.marshall/ (I'm not a big MIDI fan though--the poor sound quality drives me crazy)


• Search the BHO MP3 archive with "Backing Track" as the playing style--114 tracks found! See them here


• OldTimeJam.com--Josh who created this is a BHO member. The only "downside" on this site is that it's more "old-time" focused (most songs in key of A), and doesn't have as many "bluegrass tunes" (like FMB for instance). But it's free to listen to whatever he's got--and there are quite a few tunes! (Players Union members get a special deal if they want to buy tracks)

Here are a couple I haven't tried, but would also work:

• Buy Band in a Box (but it's not cheap) and make your own arrangements (or use Dave Marshall's)


• bluegrassbackingtrax.com/


• bluegrassbackingtracks.com


• drbluegrass.com


• itunes.apple.com/us/album/blue...580381959 - "Bluegrass Jam Camp" has a few albums out. You can buy the songs on iTunes for 99 cents each. Generic chord progressions (no specific songs), but great for practicing.

Basically, there are TONS of jam tracks out there. The best approach, I think, is to figure out what song you want to learn, then buy a good track for it and play along with your virtual "band" all you want. And you'll never have to worry about the other band complaining about playing it again! 

polarbeardave - Posted - 09/17/2013:  17:31:48

Good Evening Eric, Sean, Nestor, Andrew and Joe,

My log for the day thus far, was about 15 minutes of working through FMB before leaving for work this morning. I'm using the TAB version in Jack Hatfields book. I started out with a very basic version few years back. Now that I can at least execute most of the basic licks, pulloffs, etc, I want to learn the genuine article.

A question for Eric and the group. How do we want to proceed with this project? Do we only want to post our daily practice details? Do we want to come up with a format for all of us to work within? I realize we all have different schedules and are at different levels of playing. I guess I'm looking for help and guidance in establishing a practice outline. Any thoughts?

Okay, now to practice for a half hour before bed.

Dave

winnipegbanjoman - Posted - 09/17/2013:  21:55:03

Hi Guys,

Had a busy day today, so I only worked on scales and backup.  45 minutes, all in.  Eric, you're right about the Janet Davis book:  tons of material in there.  I do have BIAB and I could make some tracks for you, but it does sound like you've got things covered.

Edited by - winnipegbanjoman on 09/17/2013 21:55:37

andspence - Posted - 09/17/2013:  22:00:58

Hi Guys - 

Tonight was a quick one for me too.  Just ran through some familiar melodies a few times - Down the Road, We'll Meet Again Sweetheart, and a little work on Happy Birthday - it's going to be with me to the end :)

I agree with Dave - it would be nice to have a format for logging our practice sessions.  Dave you want to come up with a template maybe? 

swamplunker - Posted - 09/18/2013:  06:41:10

Good Morning Group, I practiced late last night, about an hour. I started out as intended with the egg timer cranked to 15 minutes, that way when it goes off, you have to switch to something else, "done" or not. This worked for the 1st to 2nd section switch, but I forgot to crank it and only "switched" one more time as a result, even discipline takes discipline. I started out going through some loose sheets of tab and scales I'd crammed into Tony Trischkas' melodic banjo book, located Arkansas Traveler in D (printed off a Banjo Hangout link!), didn't work on that yet, wrote out a 25 note scale thing I thought of, about then the egg timer rang, switched to going through a list of stuff I have memorized, working on timing but without the metronome, that has to be by my side in the future, finally worked on the first quarter of Powder Creek by Alan Munde. Fell into bed.

schlange - Posted - 09/18/2013:  08:35:15

Practiced about 50 minutes this morning. I'm actually really enjoying early morning practice, which I've never tried. I think my mind is a little more empty and able to focus at that time. I think I may get up earlier so I can practice longer tomorrow.

A few pages of the backup book, then working on FMB with the help of Murphy Henry. I worked through the backup book with a backing track from "Bluegrass Jam Camp" from iTunes (link above) which worked decently.

Re: "log format"--my only thought was to get a small group of folks posting daily about what they practiced. I don't know how important a specific format is, but if you guys think that's a good idea that's perfectly fine by me.

picker51 - Posted - 09/18/2013:  09:39:33

Hi all, I like the idea of a place where we can keep each other interested and accountable to practice. My banjo is apart right now for a refret and setup. Should be with you all soon.

Delaware - Posted - 09/18/2013:  09:48:26

This is such a helpful chain for those of us who are not in the actual practice group!  Eric, your post that included the links for backing tracks is going to be just what I needed!  I am <almost> to the point where I will try jamming with people, and the jam camp tracks sound like just what I need to gain a little confidence (or to find out what might need additional work before I jump in).

Thanks to everyone willing to post their progress!

andspence - Posted - 09/18/2013:  10:42:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by Delaware

 

This is such a helpful chain for those of us who are not in the actual practice group!  Eric, your post that included the links for backing tracks is going to be just what I needed!  I am to the point where I will try jamming with people, and the jam camp tracks sound like just what I need to gain a little confidence (or to find out what might need additional work before I jump in).

Thanks to everyone willing to post their progress!

---

Mary - 

If you're "almost" ready to start jamming with people, let me plug Pete Wernick's jam camps.  I was in the same situation as you where I was "almost" ready, and forced myself to attend one of his camps.  It was a tremendous help and fun at the same time.  You get to jam continuously for days or all day (depending on the type of camp), but you're not thrown in to the wolves - you're guided the whole time.  And everyone else is at the same jam experience level as you.  Here's a link to the schedule of camps. 

I don't get out and jam very much, but now I'm not as nervous - I know the jam etiquette, I know what to do if I want to take a break or if I don't want to take a break.  I've messed up tons of breaks and looked foolish - but I've seen almost everyone else do it too, which takes some of the pressure off.

Pete also has some jamming DVD's which were helpful preparing for jam camp.  There are various levels depending on your experience and comfort level.

OK - I'm done plugging.

Andrew

winnipegbanjoman - Posted - 09/18/2013:  19:38:44

Hi Guys,

Had more time tonight, so I practiced 90 minutes.  15 minutes each on scales and ear training; 1/2 hour on backup -  spending time on pages 28 and 29 (tons of licks) and played along with a looped recording of Blue Ridge Cabin Home inserting licks in context.  Then spent a half hour working on FM Special.  Such a cool tune! Way too much fun!

polarbeardave - Posted - 09/18/2013:  19:49:51

Good evening all,

Busy day at work and went out tonight to movies. Yeah, I know excuses, excuses!

I guess my question about a format was geared toward helping me be more focused during each practice session. It seems like Nestor has a good routine down. If I was to sit down for 1 hour, what would you recommend my practice structure should be? 10 minutes of this, 15 minutes of that, etc. What has worked well for others? Any help appreciated.

Dave

Joe the banjo guy - Posted - 09/18/2013:  21:35:02

Well, i've been delinquent already, but I just worked through John Boulding's Lick of the Week videos "redo 2" and "redo 3" on some dissonant and partial low position licks.  One of the videos seemed to cut off about a third of the way in, but I still got some useful ideas.

So I practiced those licks for a while and worked a bit on incorporating them smoothly into my playing.  Not all the way there yet, but definitely made some progress this evening. 

swamplunker - Posted - 09/18/2013:  22:04:02

Hi guys, what I'm doing, Dave, is breaking my hour into 15 minute periods, I think I got the idea from Nestor but, so far, still leaving it as a last minute decision what to practice in each 15 minute period, this could evolve into a more structured approach, but I'm still trying to choose from the goals I just set. Yesterday I started with scales, tonight I got out a book called Fretboard Roadmaps since I was recommending it to someone on the forum, anyway I don't currently know 15 minutes worth of scales without looking at tab, which is no problem, I just need to expand the scales I know, meaning, memorize and also meaning Bill Keith-style, alternating strings and minimizing sliding up and down the neck except for two octave stuff. I just did C and D today before the "bell" rang, then I got out the metronome and set it at 100 to work on steadiness in the normal stuff I have memorized. I can't remember if I mentioned it yesterday, but I have a list of Tony Trischkas' "hot licks" he gave us last March in my first banjo camp, anyway I worked on # 10, and added my own two chord ending, the last one being G! For the last segment, I just did more tunes I already know, worked on the technique of angling my right hand away from perpendicular to the strings, so the picks hit the strings at more of an angle, oddly that gets a cleaner sound. That tip came from professor Munde earlier this year, same camp. Better get to bed.

schlange - Posted - 09/19/2013:  08:27:19

65 minutes this morning (woke up earlier!)

Jammed along to my Bluegrass Jam Camp MP3s for a bit, just working on vamping.

Worked through backup book pages 25-26. Lots of great material in there on passing tones, which really makes the vamping stuff sound pretty cool. Bookmarked those to hit again in the future. Started working on page 28, which is fill-in licks--but stopped because there's a lot to digest there. 

Worked on FMB more. Got the lower part basically down, but not up to speed. Time to repeat x1000.

winnipegbanjoman - Posted - 09/19/2013:  10:20:19

Hey Eric,

I agree - there's a lot of info to digest in that book (and on those pages).  For context, I played through the chord progression on page 30 (right after the licks)  repeatedly, swapping out licks as I played.  The progression is for Blue Ridge Mtn Home, so I played along to a recording of that. (In my case it was a recording of the Bluegrass Album Band, playing in Bb. You can use a capo or drop the pitch digitally.)  I think I'm going to spend some days with this, to absorb the material.

Dave & Sean - I saw your posts about structure.  For my part, I had some books that I've been wanting to work through and this exercise gives me an opportunity to do that, so I just broke up my practice time to devote some time to each one.  It has the added benefits of automatically imposing some structure and direction, and saves me from having to decide what to do each time I sit down to practice.  All I have to worry about is playing.  By the way, the Pat Cloud book has some useful advice on practicing to make progress.

swamplunker - Posted - 09/19/2013:  14:04:42

polarbeardave - Posted - 09/19/2013:  17:55:53

Good Evening All,

1 hour of practice time tonight. I tried to break it up into segments as suggested.

5 minutes warm up time, easy rolls and a basic song I can play without tab.

15 minutes Janet Davis scales book, C major scales, pg 12 & 13. I think she suggests working on only 1 scale at a time until you know it really well, then move onto the next one. I figure 1 month per scale and that will be a year.

20 minutes Janet Davis back up book. passing tones pgs. 23-25. Really good sounding stuff, never looked at it before. Then pgs. 28 & 29, fill-in licks. I've been working with these for a few weeks now, but now am commited to daily practice.

15 minutes FMB Jack Hatfield Scruggs Corner book. Working on 1st and 2nd breaks, real slow. also a few up the neck rolls.

5 minutes - just noodlin' around, playing a Tab version of Rolling in my Sweet Babies Arms that I memorized  a while back.

It felt good to play for a full hour. I always feel better after playing. The music helps your mood!

I noticed that the whole country and Canada is represented in this group! East Coast, West Coast, South, North, and Canada! Not sure we could have planned that!

Have a good night,

Dave

winnipegbanjoman - Posted - 09/19/2013:  21:31:30

Hi Everyone,

Practiced 90 minutes again tonight across two sessions.  Stayed with the same material as yesterday: 15 minutes on scales; 15 minutes on backup -  pages 28 and 29, playing along with Blue Ridge Mtn Home; 45 minutes on FM Special; and 15 minutes on ear training.

swamplunker - Posted - 09/19/2013:  22:26:14

Hi Guys, I went to read any new entries when I got home from work today, somehow a big blank was recorded on my behalf, despite not trying to enter anything new at the time. Oh well, it probably wont be the first time I said a lot of nothing. Sounds like you're getting a lot done, Dave. I personally had to just sit and doodle and jam for 5-10 minutes before winding the egg timer today, guess I just needed a little unstructured playing. Started with square rolls, alternating thumb(3251,4251) to limber up the fingers, did more of my old (memorized) set list today, but with the metronome on everything: Banjo in the Hollow and Cumberland Gap mostly as in the Doug Dillard book, with a few little parts of my own. Alan Mundes' version #2 of Wildwood Flower, then Salt Creek mostly from the Tony Trischka tab that came along with a DVD, except the second time through the second section, Janet Davis' B section, the fourth last measure stuff on frets 8,6 and 4 is fun. I had to slow the metronome to 90 for the Bill Keith B part, I've put in less time with this compared to the others and it shows. The egg timer went off while the metronome was still going, lots of noise...I just kept going through the list with the metronome, John Hardy I can do at 100 but on Blackberry blossom I had to dial back to 95, these sounded a little cleaner. I'm still experimenting with picking 45 degrees from perpendicular (also from parallel) it sounds more even. Better go to sleep.

schlange - Posted - 09/20/2013:  08:15:43

50 minutes this morning. Worked through the backup banjo book's G licks page, played through a few songs I know, then finished the Murphy vid for FMB. I can now play the low part of it by memory, albiet not up to speed.

banjerman - Posted - 09/20/2013:  09:01:57

This is a very interesting idea you all have started. Ill throw in my 2 cents as I was where you all were a few years ago.

1. Working on instrumentals and singing songs is a completely different skill set. Instrumentals are harder to learn as you are playing lead and swapping breaks with other instruments. There are no words being sang which when sang, help tremendously in remembering the progression of a tune. I found I subconciously learned chord changes by word association in singing tunes. This will break you from tab as you cant possibly learn tabbed breaks to every song you will be playing. You will learn to play licks that fit into chord shapes that follow the chord progression. Playing by ear. This takes time. Its not hard but its not something you can do by focused rote playing of songs. Its the missing link in breaking from Murphy or tab.

2. You cant play fast until you get the above. The reason it looks so easy for the best players is that they arent thinking at all. They are listening and their brain is in auto pilot. They dont have to think, they merely do. Like riding a bicycle. When they play instrumentals they are thinking more but they have played that song x1000 and its second nature. They know where they are going in less than the time it takes to blink. Its embedded if you please.

3. Increased speed comes from being in auto pilot mode. Im sure some folks have a physical limit on speed but they are rare Id say. Auto pilot makes speed second nature and its not hard to do unless your thinking about every note played. Practice playing clean as you will play clean when you get to auto pilot mode. If you practice sloppy you will play sloppy in auto pilot mode.

4. When I was learning I had a lot of great pickers tell me that I needed to play with others in order to get better. BUT they couldnt tell me exactly why that was true. It was true. It helped me more than anything else I have ever tried. It finally dawned on me that I need to l needed to learn things that were very hard to define in written form. There is no really definitive work that I have ever found that explains this to non-musicians. Its exactly like riding a bicycle. You can go to college for 20 yrs and have a PHD in bicycle science but if you havent rode one you are not a bike rider. I know thats simplistic but its a fact in my case.

5. If your goal is playing BG Id say the best practice tool to get you into the realm of musicianship is to take what you have learned and play it with slowed down recordings of singing songs. I dont care if its one lick or roll as long as it fits musically into a stanza of music. Thats what vamps do. They fit perfectly and they are great practice to learn to become a musician. Then you will find out that rolls and licks fit exactly the same way. They fit perfectly if played in time. Thats the trick. It is not academic and cant be bought as far as I know. Its just practice of what you know and inserting it into a tune you hear. It gets easier and easier as time behind the resonator increases.

Im sorry if I come off here as preachy or what not but Im very interested in the process of musicanship and associated tools to get there. Its a magic thing to me.

Wally

polarbeardave - Posted - 09/20/2013:  18:39:46

Hello Group!

A quieter night. Only had 20 minutes to play. Warm ups, 10 minutes C major scale, 10 minutes FMB. I focused bit on clean picking and eliminating buzzing from improper fretting.

Thanks for the advice Nestor on practice structure. I ordered the Pat Cloud book. Seems like it will be a help.

Wally, you were not preachy. I liked all of your ideas and thoughts. I agree that playing with others has been a big help. I've trying to work a lick or two into my playing, but getting the timing right is the trick. Thank you for your input.

Till tomorrow,

Dave

Joe the banjo guy - Posted - 09/20/2013:  22:06:01

John Boulding's Lick of the Week video 4: a melodic G lick.  drilled for a while trying to get the muscle memory into the fingers.  Watched some netflix while my fingers tried to memorize the lick, and went back to some of the previous videos licks to practice them.  Tried stringing some of them together. 

winnipegbanjoman - Posted - 09/21/2013:  01:35:59

Good morning all,

This is what I did last night:  Scales 15 minutes (I've now worked on G/Em pentatonic scales in 5 positions). Still need work on speed and cleaning my playing, but it's coming along; Spent an hour on FM Special. Great tune. An hour went by and I didn't even notice;  15 minutes on licks; 15 minutes ear training.

Dave, let me know what you think about the Pat Cloud book when you get it.  I'm finding it really useful.

Edited by - winnipegbanjoman on 09/21/2013 01:37:06

andspence - Posted - 09/21/2013:  08:55:28

So I haven't posted in two days because I haven't had an actual practice session. I've gotten the banjo out everyday at least for 10 minutes, but didn't have the time for any kind of structure.  Just noodled around and played songs I enjoy that didn't feel like work.  Sometimes that's important to me so I can just enjoy myself - especially if I don't have very much time.

I kind if feel that I should at least learn what a pentatonic scale is...

schlange - Posted - 09/21/2013:  09:02:35

80 minutes of practice this morning. Hoping for more later! It's raining, so there's a chance. 

Backup banjo C and D licks pages, then worked on that book's version of Wabash Cannonball. 

Also worked on FMB more. Come on, muscle memory!

winnipegbanjoman - Posted - 09/21/2013:  14:35:51

One hour today:  15 minutes each on scales (G/Em pentatonic - all five positions, singles string & melodic - I wonder how I'm going to connect these?), backup (variations on Wabash Cannonball), ear training, and working on a Kruger Brothers tune.

swamplunker - Posted - 09/21/2013:  22:53:10

Tonight I worked exclusively on short term goal #2, Arkansas Traveler (melodic, in D, high g tuned to f#) but no metronome, no egg timer, no 15 minute sections, just doing the sections over and over, not so monotonous as it sounds, though, fresh melody and clumsier fingers on a new tune stop this from being too ordinary. I also changed the fingering for the fifth note of the melody, rather than doing the open b string twice (per tab), which would sound sort of dead, I moved the first b to the ninth fret of the d string, and the second one to the fourth fret of the g string, forget where I read that, but it helps. P.S. Andrew- You probably know a pentatonic is a 5-note scale consisting of the1-2-3-5 and 6th tones of a scale, our buddy Banjophobic posted a  John Boulding series in use of chords as a pentatonic template, I watched the first three today, interesting stuff, it's on the thread about fretboard mastery, I don't know how to move that over here but it's worth looking at. 

Edited by - swamplunker on 09/21/2013 23:08:26

banjerman - Posted - 09/22/2013:  07:27:45

quote:

---

Originally posted by schlange

 

80 minutes of practice this morning. Hoping for more later! It's raining, so there's a chance. 

 

Backup banjo C and D licks pages, then worked on that book's version of Wabash Cannonball. 

 

Also worked on FMB more. Come on, muscle memory!

 

---

 Are you using her cd's Eric? Her voice is mesmerizing. That book is the best bar none of all I own.

polarbeardave - Posted - 09/22/2013:  18:21:24

Good Evening All,

No practice time in 2 days, long day at work yesterday. I did go to a jam tonight, at a friends restaurant with my wife, who is learning Mandolin. Mostly old rock, some folk music. A good experience to learn by ear as I did not have chords in front of me. I asked the key of each song and had to follow along and anticipate the changes. It was a lot of fun and I was even able to slip a couple of G licks in at the right time. Playing with others really does help in the learning process.

Will get back on the practice/playing time tomorrow. Hope you all had a good weekend of playing and pickin'.

Dave

schlange - Posted - 09/22/2013:  20:39:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjerman

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by schlange

 

80 minutes of practice this morning. Hoping for more later! It's raining, so there's a chance. 

Backup banjo C and D licks pages, then worked on that book's version of Wabash Cannonball. 

Also worked on FMB more. Come on, muscle memory!

---

 Are you using her cd's Eric? Her voice is mesmerizing. That book is the best bar none of all I own.

---

Using the backup banjo book, and I imported the CD tracks from the book to my computer so I can listen to them there when needed. I listen to maybe 1/4 of what she recorded. Janet does have a great voice, doesn't she? I've talked to her quite a bit on the phone over the years (longtime Hangout sponsor)--she's such a nice lady. Working with her to launch a new website soon, in fact! (Top secret, but I'm sure you'll hear about it soon enough once it launches! :-)

schlange - Posted - 09/22/2013:  20:41:14

1 hour tonight. Mostly worked on tunes--Wabash Cannonball lead from Backup book, and FMB.

Also noodled around just playing rolls and vamping over different chord progressions. I can notice a difference in my roll speed and smoothness after just one week of regular practices, so that's good!

swamplunker - Posted - 09/22/2013:  23:49:19

Got back to the timed practicing, 15 min. working on Ark. Traveler in D, then 15 min on a D melodic minor thing I came up with last June, it has some places where there are 3 notes, ascending, on a single string, not picked back and forth though, more of a slur. Some amount of sustain comes from fatter strings, I think, anyway, it's an old Gibson set, 12-14-16-25-11. Third thing was the first quarter of Powder Creek, the hardest thing I gotta work on in that one is a quick slide from the fifth fret of b string (middle finger) to the index on the ninth fret with only one open g in between, it's one you need your eyes for. Then I had to get up and stretch, eat an apple, could've sat for three hours if there was no clock! Then I did sit down for another hour, this time with the metronome through my old list of mostly memorized stuff, went 94-100 depending on how well known, started over and/or slowed down if too ragged, didn't get any tickets. I'd like to add here that I enjoy and learn from the other practice sites too, it's one big group in the most important way.