Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/02/2013:  00:34:47

Hello folks and thanks - I am glad to be here.  We had our jam Thursday night and my goal number two: Improvements in sounds and improvements in structure of the jam are in progress.  We had 12 folks playing (plus 3 or 4 visitors, one of which may come back and join us in the jam at a later date) - at all levels of experience and it was a challenge to say the least.   Got some great ideas for improvements for next jam (in two weeks):  A mic on a boom type stand for the next player to use for announcing the next song, key of song and chord structure if we need help plus for vocals if singing is part of the the song and he / she wants to sing.  Also OPTIONAL for the next jam - to improve structure and get some help on the overall sound:  I am going to ask each person to bring 3 songs with (if they choose this option) - lyrics + chords so that us folks that need it will be able to contribute to the sound better.  OH! I know the advanced folks don't do the lyric / chords sheets thing but, this is optional and we are going be able to move things along better with these ideas.

As for my other S/T goal:  a high break to 'Wildwood Flower' in Key of C:  I am shooting to take a break with that high break at our jam - by the end of Dec.  BTW - we sing a lot at our jams and I do love "Wildwood Flower" - I loved it when Maybelle Carter sang that song - the lyrics are lovely - but I am not too keen on the vocals for that song at a jam.  Anybody feel that way?  Phil 

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/02/2013:  06:04:57

I spent an hour playing this morning, and two hours this evening after spending the day hiking with friends.  It's late spring here, the sky is blue, and the birds are singing.  

I started off learning a lick in G that went from unplayable to pretty reasonable in an hour or so, which was satisfying, and now I'm learning a version of Bury Me Beneath The Willow based on a forward backward roll.

gclaunch - Posted - 11/02/2013:  18:02:21

Put in 2 hours today...........half hour or better with metronome doing rolls at various speeds, start at 80 then work up t0 108 bpms, back down to 80, then back up again....I'm beginning to feel a difference, especially when I switch over to my backing tracks. Worked on Unclouded Day for an hour and a half, back to the key of G for my breaks, and a lot of time playing it with the metronome.
I like Bury me Beneath the Willow, I practice with a backing track at 100 bpm...have heard it slower and faster at jams, any general suggestions for a good tempo, or just whatever?

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/02/2013:  21:57:50

I really think Bury Me Beneath the Willow sounds odd played at a quick tempo, maybe because it's kind of a mournful song.  I've heard a few upbeat versions, and it doesn't really work for me.  Of course, part of that is probably my internal resolve to make the banjo not sound so insufferably happy all the time!  I played a blues lick for a friend, who exclaimed "yeah, you just can't help but smile when you hear that!" :P

Back to that song, though, it has a really nice sound, and I've spent three or four hours on it today.  The simple version I have was quick to learn, and I've repeated it endlessly, working on getting it comfortable and ingrained in my head.  I can sort of mumble some lyrics along to it, but by no means can I concentrate on singing.  I'll keep at it until I have the playing solid enough to be able to do that.

winnipegbanjoman - Posted - 11/03/2013:  10:57:02

I practiced 45 minutes this morning.  Started a new tune, Sarah, by the Kruger Brothers.  I have tab for it from the Jens Kruger DVD, and I've tried it before without much success, so this is a good candidate for a new project.  I made some good headway this morning after an hour.  I also had a breakthrough with the scale exercise that I've been working on for the last week (or more), and I believe I'm ready to move to the next exercise now. 

I hope to practice some more tonight.

gclaunch - Posted - 11/03/2013:  15:46:36

5:40 PM local.........
Got an hour and 45 min. in today...lot of work with metronome and rolls,starting slow and working up until I fall apart, back down to comfort level then back up again, several repetitions... did that with several tunes on my playlist.
Nestor : I you tubed Sarah by Jens Kruger, great piece, lots of luck.

swamplunker - Posted - 11/03/2013:  18:03:34

Hi, folks, just got back from Barberville, it rained Saturday but everyone(I think) was prepared, it's a local festival in the sense that if you play in a band or two, they can get in, no big national acts but still a meeting of the tribes for people from around the state. And the best part is, all the musicians are in one campground, so there's a ton of jamming at night. The first night I did the usual songwriter thing, playing/listening to original tunes, mostly acoustic guitars. Last night I walked around until I found my buddy Dave, went back and got my Banjo and jammed with him for a few hours, a few people came by to jam, we did our whole list and then some, tried Compadres in the old Sierra Madres, I did some noodling but had to stick mostly to the chords. We made one guitar player do our version of Red-haired Boy, starting in G before migrating to A, brought a few books but never got around to them. Some people just came by to listen.

winnipegbanjoman - Posted - 11/03/2013:  19:50:05

Hey Sean, it sounds like it was a really good time, despite the rain.

Thanks for the good wishes, Gerald.  I spent some time on it again tonight. (I lost track - I'm guessing an hour.)  Got through the main theme at about 50% speed. It will take awhile to bring the speed up. There's a triplet section at the end that will take extra work too.  I'm happy with the progress for one day, though.

I spent 15 minutes working out the next scale exercise in the Pat Cloud book. These exercises double as ear training because I'm supposed to work out the exercises entirely by ear before looking at the book. I'm happy to report that I hit every fret position correctly. 

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/03/2013:  19:53:50

Good practice tonight.  Watched Monday Night Football while doing banjo rolls to 'Banjo Rolls Trainer' on my IPad.  About 20 minutes of various rolls ...... 70 to 80 bpm.

Then made some excellent progress with noodling and playing high break to "Wildwood Flower" in the key of C.  Thanks to Rich Weill for some great ideas a while back on finding the melody notes up the neck.  Using his suggestions - first, I found various chords up and down the neck using three finger chords + pinky stretches - WOW!  I found about 80% of the melody notes very quickly and played them on time with the filler notes ('decorations' I call them).  I am way more than 60% done with this short term goal!  Could it be this easy?  Yes - I do believe it is.

More good news:  In the jam I have put together over the last couple of months - one of the guys who is talented with the guitar and good on the vocals called me and ask me if I would like to get together from time to time to work on songs.  I said "OH Yeah! ... I've been looking for someone to pick with for a LONG LONG time".  Phil

BTW:  Thanks Rich Weill!  It has taken a while but it was a light bulb moment.  I haven't had many of those lately.     

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/03/2013:  22:54:09

Those festivals and jams sound like a lot of fun :)

I've put in maybe two hours today, just playing Bury Me Beneath the Willow, and gradually improving at playing and singing along with it.  Annoyingly, I managed to lose my finger picks when I was out yesterday, as I'd stuffed them in my pocket instead of keeping them in the case.  I didn't lose the thumb pick, at least.  Oh well, more ordered from the internet, and I had some older ones to fall back on.

I also decided I'd record some progress, so I took a brief video, and will put it up as a blog post.  I'm not sure anyone else will ever look at it, but it will hopefully serve as a reference for how I'm progressing over time!

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/04/2013:  02:38:42

Octopus - I have done that trick about losing picks - one time it was a $40 Bluechip thumb pick.  Never found it  - it totally disappeared.  I was playing (in a backup mode only) in a church - I discovered I could use my thumb to get through the set and I also have never since been without an extra set of picks.

In my previous post I mentioned that I practiced rolls while looking at Monday Night Football then did some noodling and playing high break of "Wildwood Flower" in Key of C.  Well it was truly a lightbulb moment for me for the high break experience.  The mistake in the post: It was not Monday Night Football - it was Sunday Night Football.  I can guarantee you that tonight I will be doing rolls and noodling and playing a high break during Monday Night Football.

Yes I am excited.  It occurs to me that if that process for developing the up the neck break works for me on "Wildwood Flower" in the Key of C - it will work on any song in any key.  ..Duh!!...Phil

swamplunker - Posted - 11/04/2013:  05:11:52

The only trick I use for not losing picks is keep 'em in the smallest kind (6 1/2"x3 1/4") of zip-loc baggie, in the case, you could still lose the whole baggie but it'd be harder to do.

Rich Weill - Posted - 11/04/2013:  07:07:20

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kemo Sabe

Good practice tonight.  Watched Monday Night Football while doing banjo rolls to 'Banjo Rolls Trainer' on my IPad.  About 20 minutes of various rolls ...... 70 to 80 bpm.

Then made some excellent progress with noodling and playing high break to "Wildwood Flower" in the key of C.  Thanks to Rich Weill for some great ideas a while back on finding the melody notes up the neck.  Using his suggestions - first, I found various chords up and down the neck using three finger chords + pinky stretches - WOW!  I found about 80% of the melody notes very quickly and played them on time with the filler notes ('decorations' I call them).  I am way more than 60% done with this short term goal!  Could it be this easy?  Yes - I do believe it is.

More good news:  In the jam I have put together over the last couple of months - one of the guys who is talented with the guitar and good on the vocals called me and ask me if I would like to get together from time to time to work on songs.  I said "OH Yeah! ... I've been looking for someone to pick with for a LONG LONG time".  Phil

BTW:  Thanks Rich Weill!  It has taken a while but it was a light bulb moment.  I haven't had many of those lately.     

---

Thanks, Phil.  I presume you are referring to this post.

Using three-finger chords, and leaving my left pinkie free to fret non-chord melody notes, was a technique I learned from Roger Sprung.  As with most everything Roger taught me, it has served me well.  It's a great technique for developing the ear-finger coordination necessary for finding a melody by ear -- and then weaving the melody (or countermelody) into a roll, either down or up the neck.

picker51 - Posted - 11/04/2013:  07:50:56

practiced 1 hour today. Basics and then FMB, Foggy Mountain Chimes, Salt Creek.

schlange - Posted - 11/04/2013:  08:50:56

45 minutes this morning. Working through my set list, and also my "Banjo Aerobics" book which has 50 weeks worth of exercises (amazon.com/Banjo-Aerobics-Mich...480305413).

Do any of you find that your banjo sounds better when you start practice than when you end? It's like my ears get tired of hearing stuff in the same register... after about 30-45 minutes it sounds like my banjo loses warmth/low-end. Just curious if anyone else has experienced this.

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/04/2013:  18:18:32

That's a really interesting point about perception changing during playing.  I recorded myself playing yesterday, and was struck with how much I liked the sound of the banjo when I played it back later.  Maybe I'd just tuned out the sound while playing, after endless repetition of the same few bars, but the recording sounded brighter and clearer than I expected.  And, this was just with my open-backed Goodtime, too.  

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/05/2013:  06:22:34

Getting there with singing along to Bury Me Beneath the Willow.  I ended up wandering up and down the side of a road, late at night, playing and singing in the dark, which was kind of great.  I played for about an hour or so.  I'd taken the Bishline rather than the Goodtime, as I had a Lakota Leathers strap arrive today, and wanted to try it out.  Nice strap, but I need to adjust it a bit so that it doesn't try to slide to the right so much.

gclaunch - Posted - 11/05/2013:  06:25:46

busy, busy yesterday, but got an hour in, mainly playing with metronome at various speeds.
We have an extra bedroom in our house that I have taken over as an "office" - "music room" where I practice - after about an hour or so my ears begin to feel "thick" like I can't hear as well. Also we keep the temp. pretty low in the house and when I first pick it up to practice, sometimes the strings are cold to the touch and I usually play for a few minutes before I adjust tuning.

swamplunker - Posted - 11/05/2013:  06:28:43

I guess the objective way to determine whether that phenomenon is your ears or the banjo, Eric, is to record a bit when you first start, then another at the end of practice, then listen later to see if you hear a difference. It's been pointed out by others that the players' position receives the sound differently than a microphone or a set of ears directly in front of the banjo. Then there's the set of variables introduced by distance, even at the same angle. I don't doubt that "ear burnout " or acclimation is possible, if it turns out to be the banjo that's a little easier to fix. Anyway, I did practice yesterday, 45 min., started out in an unusual way ,for me, learning Casey Henrys' three shave-and-a-haircut bluegrass endings and then writing one of my own. By the time I got to the second one, I'd forgotten the first one, so I went back and wrote all three down in tab, and also my own, much faster, now I can commit them to long term memory whenever I want.

schlange - Posted - 11/05/2013:  08:16:57

50 minutes today. Banjo Aerobics, picking through the list. swamplunker--Sean--great minds think alike. I actually did exactly what you said, this morning! Going to listen to it now. But I'm pretty sure it was just my ears. This morning I talked to my kids some while practicing, and heard some other noises, and the issue didn't seem as pronounced as yesterday, when I was playing a lot of notes in a similar register for a long time.

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/05/2013:  11:07:41

Great practice for 45 minutes this morning.  Rolls up high on neck (frets 12 - 17) playing G,C and D along with 'Banjo Rolls Trainer' at 85 bpm.  'Banjo Rolls Trainer' changes to those chords if you choose the function.  Mostly played forward, forward reverse rolls and Dillard Roll.  I love the sound of rolls up there.  I have discovered a lot of melody notes on strings one and two using the Dillard Roll!

Practiced high break for "Wildwood Flower" in the Key of C .... this three finger chord + pinkie stretch has opened up a whole new world of playing for me.  First thing I do on this process is find and play (over and over and over) all the chords I can find up and down the neck for the song:  C, G and F gets it done for me on this song.  These chord inversions give rise to great sounds and easy melody notes - and I have discovered that the barre chord is just as important as the other grips (shapes).  I used to feel a little shy about using the barre chords (don't know why) until one day in class I saw Alan Munde pop his ring finger down to a barre chord in the middle of a song he was playing.  I am using chords up the neck that I have seldom used before.

Got a call from another prospective player for my Katy Jam Buddies project.  He plays mandolin and guitar.  Looking forward to that jam which will be a week from Thursday (Nov 14th).  We now have about 15 on the list - of course, several miss jams for billions of reasons ..... but I believe we will settle down with 9 to 12 or so per jam.  I do not believe I will be ready for my high break solo on "Wildwood Flower" but I am getting closer and closer.  I will be there before Dec 31!  Phil

gclaunch - Posted - 11/05/2013:  20:36:46

Two hours today....first hour this morning, a lot of recording my playing, listen delete and record again, several times, at the end of the hour could discern a difference (for the better).
Hour this afternoon had trouble getting in focus, slowed down went back to basics, rolls etc.

swamplunker - Posted - 11/05/2013:  21:49:24

Did an hour and a half, all just now. Started with some of my standard list, then went to a version of Midnight Moonlight, supposedly based on a version by Old and In the Way, badly written tab, no time signature, and no note values, six notes per measure, I'm supposed to see if I can learn it for one band, may just listen to the CD to see f I can figure it out. Anyway, did 3 or 4 out of Alan Mundes' Great Pickin' Tunes, then got out Janet Davis' Bluegrass Melodic Style book. She has you moving up and down the neck to get used to where everything is, the part I wasn't doing much of was the 9th fret on g string(e) to the seventh on the b string (f#) as a way of connecting the fourth fret stuff with the octave. Ended by working on Powder Creek by Alan Munde.

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/06/2013:  05:21:07

Practiced for an hour an a half earlier, just playing that same song, and singing along.  I can't quite get it without a mistake, yet, but I'm getting closer.

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/06/2013:  08:20:12

Good practice for about 40 minutes:  20 minutes of forward rolls from frets 1 - 21 for G, C and D chords at 100 bpm.  At that tempo I find that sliding into the next chord works very well and sounds good.  Then about 20 minutes of high break for 'Wildwood Flower' in Key of C - it's getting easier already.  The two short term goals are going to happen by Dec 31:  With the Katy Jam Buddies Jam improvements toward better sound + 'order in the court' etiquettes coming along already - I think I will play 'Wildwood Flower' (I always play it low neck) .... I will add the high break by the end of the year.  I am focused on these two goals.  Pretty soon I might start thinking about new goals including some longer term goals.  But - who knows - if these short term goals work out maybe I will just go for short term goals.  Phil

bacchettadavid - Posted - 11/06/2013:  10:00:04

Put in about 40 minutes of practice.  Did rolls in G as a warm-up, then I continued practicing my chord changes (which are still somewhat crisp, yay) while mixing up my rolls for a bit.  I'll keep at it tonight.  Now that I've got my first 3 chords down well enough to play without breaks, I can make acceptable sounds, so tonight I'll start practicing on smoothing out my rolls a bit.  Tomorrow will likely be the same.

I'll be listening to Snuffy Jenkins during lunch today, I think.

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/06/2013:  12:36:10

...some of the inversions of the chords up high are yielding great melody notes for me (right where I need them) ....I feel like a kid in kindergarten discovering more letters of the alphabet on the walls above the bulletin board.  It seems to me that when I get this song done .... this may work on other songs!  Duh!!!  Phil

schlange - Posted - 11/06/2013:  12:42:12

Phil--are these 3-finger chords of yours played on the bottom 3 strings (GBG) of the banjo? Just curious what you're up to!

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/06/2013:  13:19:09

Eric - yes - 3 finger chords on strings 1, 2 & 3  .... But played up high from fifth fret all the way up to 21st fret.  With three finger chords that include 3 different shapes:  a modified f shape, a modified g shape and a barre chord.  REAL SIMPLE!!!!! Then add the pinkie with a little stretch .... & melody notes fall into your lap (ear?)!  Rich Weill described it in his post in this thread (giving full credit to his teacher) ....  I first played my project song  over and over and over and over with JUST 3 FINGER CHORD SOUNDS to discover all the chord inversions I could find up and down the neck.  My project song is 'Wildwood Flower' in the Key of C.  The only chords I use in this song are C, G & F.  Then used those inversions ..... Finding notes from simple rolls and pinkie stretches .... It is coming together very nice at the tempo I like .... & I am able to play the decorations easily (some would call it 'filler' notes).  Phil

gclaunch - Posted - 11/06/2013:  16:38:04

Hey Phil, follow what you are doing, and kinda stumbled onto it , a "serendipity" type thing. Found out I can use only the 1st and 2nd string way up the neck along with the 5th for some stuff - when accompanying, will use the 3 strings mentioned. On my up the neck break for You Are My Sunshine I make it up to the 17th fret for the C chord. A lot of fun! Sounds like you really got it going with you jam thing, keep us posted.

Got in a little more than an hour to day...used Unclouded Day as my warm up. Selected Grandfather's Clock as my next project...spent the rest of practice just picking out the melody and learning the words...neat song, I feel like I should have learned it before now...better late than never, I guess.

Hey Octopus, aren't you concerned about wandering down the lane at late ight singing and playing your banjo? Sounds like fun, but around here you'd probably be knocked in the head or somebody would call the cops. Be safe!

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/06/2013:  17:33:03

Heh, it's nice living in a city that doesn't have a high rate of violent crime, I must say - you have to go out of your way to find trouble, here. I did pick somewhere non-residential, but that was more so I didn't annoy anyone trying to sleep :P

One of my goals, beyond just playing, is to understand the structure of chords and scales and such, and so as a mental exercise on the bus I thought about the fingering for Bury Me Beneath the Willow, and worked out what notes I was playing, how they fit into the chords, and what that meant in terms of scales and such. As far as I could work out, I was playing notes out of the major scale for whatever chord I was currently "playing". Makes sense. I'm still terribly slow at working out what fret on what string is what note, but I'm gradually learning more :)

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/06/2013:  17:36:00

 I did pick somewhere non-residential

Unintentional banjo pun.

gclaunch - Posted - 11/06/2013:  17:59:45

Sounds good, octopus, I envy you....(good pun)......talking about mental exercise and fingering, I have found that on some tunes that I can sit down close my eyes and completely visualize my fingering through the entire song ( kinda annoying at night when I'm trying to go to sleep) but these are the tunes I can play through without thinking about them, Just "let the fingers do the walking"....Anybody else have similar experience.

schlange - Posted - 11/07/2013:  07:20:26

Half and hour last night, an hour this morning. Learned the Ballad of Jed Clampett, and ran through my aerobics and song list as well.

I gotta say, I can learn a song from the Murphy Method videos so much more quickly and effectively than with tab. I pick it up quick, and it sticks in my head, too.

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/07/2013:  09:43:13

Murphy is the greatest!

Practiced banjo rolls for 15 minutes.

Played "WW Flower" high break 30 minutes.  I have found all the notes I want for that high break and the chord inversions that fit the song well.

I recorded my high break ..... 3 times .... NOPE!  Not ready for the SOUNDOFF forum yet but the song is coming along purdy good!  Phil

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/07/2013:  12:39:56

Two hours last night, including recording myself singing while playing Bury Me Beneath the Willow, which I can do now, if with occasional mistakes :)  I posted my mistake-laden version on the blog.  That song has become fairly comfortable, and I'm now contemplating where to go from here.  I'd been following a online tutorial, but I've come to the end of that, beyond learning some specific songs (Foggy Mountain Breakdown is the obvious one).

I hear good things about Murphy - I take it you guys find it useful?  I appreciate that the 'by ear' approach suits some more than others, but beyond that, how do you find it in terms of pace and structure of how things are introduced?

picker51 - Posted - 11/07/2013:  12:43:49

Well, It was a busy day so I only got 45 minutes practice today. :( But was good what I did practice. Lonesome Road Blues and Fireball Mail. Try to do better tomorrow. Reading and trying Banjophobic's back up stuff.

picker51 - Posted - 11/07/2013:  12:47:30

Schlange, when you work with Murhpy Henry you learn by ear as well as sight. That makes it easier to remember..... Tabs are ok and I use them, but they don't talk to you.... lol

schlange - Posted - 11/07/2013:  13:13:46

Yeah, I know why I pick it up better using the Murphy Method--I'm just impressed by how much better I pick it up. automatic octopus--I find their pacing and structure to be quite good. I purchased their videos through our online catalog (banjohangout.org/lessons/catalog/) which is perfect for me because I can watch them on my phone or laptop whenever I want. I find myself pausing after each section and playing it a few times to lock it in--and sometimes rewinding. So having it on the computer is much easier than having to hit pause, rewind, etc on a remote. For me at least.

Plus there's a Players Union discount if you want to use it (see banjohangout.org/store/union-discounts.asp)

Jack Baker - Posted - 11/07/2013:  13:24:23

Hi Eric,

Am I permitted to post in this thread? Well here goes. Whether you use tabs or the Murphy method or any visual teaching method, I really don't see a big difference. When you are really learning by ear, you are listening to a recorded source and re-producing sounds, then trying to find out where they lay on a banjo, and not assisted by a slow methodical visual breakdown of a particular tune.

It seems to me like you are learning extraordinarily quickly and that is great. I personally do not  see why using tablature is any different than using a video source such as the Murphy method. Both will get you to the same destination.

I have no qualms about either method whatsoever. They all work if you try hard enough and it appears that you are very driven and that's really how it works. Be well Eric and happy trails or should I say, happy trials and thanks for a Miracle site....Jack 

---

Originally posted by schlange

 

Edited by - Jack Baker on 11/07/2013 13:27:32

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/07/2013:  13:27:53

So today while noodling with high break ideas I tried "Will The Circle ....." In Key of G with my three finger chords + pinkie stretch - just fer fun to see if I have learned anything.  Within 2 minutes I had it done (not PURDY ... But identifiable).   The also good news:  PINKIE knew where to go!  By GEORGE!  I think I am on to something!  Phil

Edited by - Kemo Sabe on 11/07/2013 13:28:44

schlange - Posted - 11/07/2013:  14:07:50

quote:

---

Originally posted by jbaker7

 

Hi Eric,

Am I permitted to post in this thread? Well here goes. Whether you use tabs or the Murphy method or any visual teaching method, I really don't see a big difference. When you are really learning by ear, you are listening to a recorded source and re-producing sounds, then trying to find out where they lay on a banjo, and not assisted by a slow methodical visual breakdown of a particular tune.

It seems to me like you are learning extraordinarily quickly and that is great. I personally do not  see why using tablature is any different than using a video source such as the Murphy method. Both will get you to the same destination.

I have no qualms about either method whatsoever. They all work if you try hard enough and it appears that you are very driven and that's really how it works. Be well Eric and happy trails or should I say, happy trials and thanks for a Miracle site....Jack 

---

Originally posted by schlange

 

Hi Jack,

Sure, you're allowed to post here if you have some helpful insights--and I know you do!

Here's what I've found. Whether I know a song (that is, I already know the melody, timing, etc in my head--not on the banjo) or don't know it at all, if I sit down and try to learn it via tab it takes a lot longer for me to learn it to the point where I can play it without reading the tab. I would estimate 5-10x longer to learn it that way.

If I can listen to the tune that helps a lot--but if I can have a video that shows me how to play it slowly, bit by bit, I will typically learn the whole song in two sittings. Then it's just a matter of playing through it (without needing to look at the tab, which I like!) until I can play it at a decent speed.

I know different folks learn different ways--but for me, the Murphy Method way is, thus far, the quickest way for me to pick up and learn a tune.

gclaunch - Posted - 11/07/2013:  16:27:28

6:15 PM, local.

Well, I did a "bad" today ! Very little playing! On a previous post I mentioned that my new song was going to be Grandfather's Clock. OK, I picked around on it a little this morning the went to youtube to see what was out there...OMG such a wealth of information and a tremendous variety of renditions - from banjo, of course to '50's and '60' English rock bands, to full brass bands playing in concert style, and Johnny Cash with the trademark backup! I burned up over 3 hours on youtube(!) listening to just that one tune and all the different presentations. Checked the history of the tune and found that the term we use for grandfather clocks originated from that particular song which was written back in the 1870's. Anyway, the melody is "etched' in my mind and look forward to lots'a practice tomorrow.

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/07/2013:  16:57:59

Ah, discounts, I like those!  I'll have a look at what's available :)

What I'm really after with lessons is some kind of guidance and direction on what to progress with, so that I can use my practice time effectively and progress to some kind of basic rounded proficiency.  I'll agree with the sentiment that tab vs alternatives isn't really a primary concern; I'll deal with however things are explained, and then get down to practicing, which is really what it's all about anyway, right? :)

swamplunker - Posted - 11/07/2013:  19:42:47

What you end up having to do, Sven, is consider what everyone else says but still run your own experiments. You may notice that while some of us are working out of the same books of tab or Murphy/Casey Henry, or Tony Trischka or Pete Wernick DVDs, or on-line stuff by whoever, just as often we're working out of different sources and telling each other what we did. I actually started without any of it, just a banjo-playing neighbor who showed me a couple rolls, and making up my own stuff. Years later, when I got Murphy Henrys' Beginning Banjo,vol.1, it began to sound more sophisticated (and less backwoods, now that's a sound people seem to be going for!), it was explained in a can't-miss way, and with good tips about technique as well. The only downside was, if I wanted to learn anything else, I was completely dependent on the tape or DVD to show me how it goes. I have four M.Henry DVDs, but when I figured out how to read tab and got Janet Davis' Splitting the Licks, that's when I felt my learning accelerate. All of a sudden I had a language that allowed me to almost instantly play anything, even before I tried to memorize it. I got a Doug Dillard book and replaced the (memorized) rudimentary Henry version with Dougs', then changed that slightly to give it more variety. Cumberland Gap evolved even more, there was a whole additional section I got from the Dillard book that I used, and modified, then added to the originally memorized Murphy version. One important thing to remember whether you do either method, you are simply memorizing until you get enough of a vocabulary to make up your own stuff, which I advocate doing from the beginning, it's also the same if Bela Fleck comes over to your house and shows you his coolest new tune, YOU have to play it 50-100 times or however long it takes to get it memorized. And when you do start making up your own stuff, don't feel bad if it's full of Scruggs-type clichés or Melodic Scale pieces, you'll get more sophisticated, and certainly more unique, by keeping at it. My thing with the Murphy stuff now, it's still useful, I just write it down in tab, never look at the tape again, no more slow "put your second finger on the second fret of the third string, tab tells me that in a nanosecond. Personally, my speed of memorization seems to depend on the amount of times I've played it, rather than the source. End of speech, gotta practice.

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/07/2013:  20:30:52

Thanks, that was well said!

I guess my long-term aim is to do exactly as you said, and invent or improvise, either from scratch, with others, or over other songs.  Given the relative lack of banjo music here, there really aren't any banjo songs I "want to learn", as such, other than as a tool in learning to play in general.  I hadn't even heard of Foggy Mountain Breakdown until I bought a banjo!

Vocabulary is a good word to use, too, and describes what I want to achieve - I want to be able to take a chord progression and work with it, or elaborate on sounds I like, or whatever.  I really just need a foundation to begin with.

I really appreciate everyone's input on what's worked for them, and why - this is useful stuff! :D

swamplunker - Posted - 11/07/2013:  21:59:36

Practiced an hour just now, Black Mountain Rag and Arkansas Traveler(in C) out of Alan Munde's Great Pickin Tunes book, then Janet Davis' Melodic Bluegrass book, spent most of my time in that one, finally worked on the second quarter of Powder Creek by Alan Munde. Regarding what you just said, Sven, we're always building and rebuilding our foundations, you've heard my prejudices, the Murphy Henry Beginning Banjo, vol#1 and Splitting the Licks by Janet Davis. Watching a DVD like Murphy's or Tony Trishka's can give you the hunger to learn something they're doing that sounds really good, I HAD to learn Murphy's Cumberland Gap and Trishka's Gold Rush after hearing those folks do 'em. As far as making up stuff, it doesn't have to be whole songs, it might just be a handful of notes you feel go together well, one of the first things I wrote while studying Splitting the Licks, is, in it's first half, simply a collection of Scruggsy licks found in her book and strung together according to what chord I wanted it to go with, then I added some stuff that occurred while playing, that was really coming from my own head. Anything like this, I write down in tab, then it wont be lost. I could tape it, but I might forget the fingerings. And some of those, I don't play for six months and forget, until I revisit the tab, whereas others I practice all the time and keep 'em memorized.

gclaunch - Posted - 11/08/2013:  07:02:06

Hey, Octopus...I did some quick Google research and found out that there was The Red Lands Bluegrass festival held near Brisbane last August, (yep, you missed it, but they've gotta have another one coming up sometime) and that there is an Australian Bluegrass blog that has contacts in Brisbane. Have you made contact with any of these yet? Also there are some Wernick Method jam camps going on over there, I know it's a big country so don't know if they are in your area...Evidently there is bluegrass activity going on over there, if you could hook up with someone or one of those camps it would really be great.

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/08/2013:  07:09:35

This morning I played the high break to "WW Flower" ..... playing along with the low break using Amazing Slow Downer.  Oh - that is me on the low break recording.  Set the tempo at about 1/2 speed.  Played the high break over and over  and over. I am getting it.  This thread has been a great inspiration to me - setting two short term goals and realizing great progress in just over a week.  Thanks Eric and thanks to all the group.  I enjoy reading your progress and I get ideas that are helping me.  Phil