automatic octopus - Posted - 11/08/2013:  13:28:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by schlange

 

Recorded myself playing it this morning--it's rough, but here you go!

---

Very cool!  Funny, until recently I never gave that piece of music a second thought, being a TV show theme and all, but it's a great piece of music.

Yesterday I had an early start at work, and then a work party, but I slung the Goodtime over my shoulder while at home, and did some picking while doing other things around the house, for the brief time I was home.  Mostly the Foggy Mountain Breakdown roll.

gclaunch - Posted - 11/08/2013:  13:38:18

Worked on Grandfather's Clock about an hour this morning, then another hour and a half this afternoon...working on version in the Janet Davis Splitting the Licks book...a lotta time on just the melody, then combining with the forward roll leading with index finger, then mixing the rolls up somewhat...coming along ok, still motivated on it.

Sounds like you got it, Eric. I've tried it several times and keep "losing" it.

swamplunker - Posted - 11/08/2013:  21:05:31

Nice post ,Eric- there's a little hesitation in a couple low notes, but the rolls sound good . I heard a story somewhere that that was the cause of Bela Flecks' first interest in banjo, he heard the Jed Clampett theme. So anyway I did an hour just now, first standards from my list, then Worked more on Powder Creek, trying to make a 12-19 fret shift sound routine, I am getting the first half in decent shape except for this, the standard advice is to work on a couple measures at a time, I'll try that tomorrow.

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/09/2013:  00:11:54

You know, if you'd asked me how much free time I have to practice the banjo, I'd have said 'none!', but now that I'm being deliberate and conscious of practicing, it seems there's always some time to be had, if I make it a priority .  In all, about an hour and a half today.

So, I've started learning the first break of Foggy Mountain Breakdown, which is coming along slowly, mostly because I don't know the music well, so I'm having to re-listen to the same bit again and again to see how it's supposed to sound.  There are bits in there that I can do okay (forward backward roll, hooray!) but for the most part it's a real struggle.  But, I have no doubt that practice will fix that, eventually :)  

I was playing Bury Me Beneath The Willow, and it's interesting that when I make mistakes, I can more easily pick up and continue than I once could.  Another interesting sign of progression!

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/09/2013:  17:57:47

Practiced various rolls for about 20 minutes - then about an hour of noodling and playing high break to "WW Flower".  This high break is not my comfort zone ..... more reason and confirmation on why I want to get it done.  High break is coming along pretty good - I can see and hear and feel the improvements.  The process is going to open up lots of high breaks.  Phil

gclaunch - Posted - 11/09/2013:  18:27:32

a good hour and a half in today split pretty evenly between Unclouded Day and Grandfather's Clock.....Grandfather's clock coming along ok, I've got the harmonics down for the chimes, need to smooth everything out so it flows....planning on spending a lot of time with the metronome tomorrow.

swamplunker - Posted - 11/09/2013:  20:20:27

Hi folks, I practiced only a half hour tonight, I've been getting up early, and it's hard to stay awake as late. Practiced in Janet Davis' Up the Neck book, ended with Powder Creek, broke it into smaller pieces today, maybe 1% better. I used to do Grandfathers' Clock Gerald, liked the melody but wasn't crazy about the stops. Didn't get it memorized. My mom wrote out several verses for me, about seven years ago, so it may have been a guitar book she saw it in, She knew it from her childhood.Good night all, Sunday I can practice in the a.m.

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/10/2013:  04:20:50

You guys need to get yourselves pictures of some kind next to your name!  

I practiced a good three hours or so today, I think, though not in one single block.  Part of it involved standing on the street in the evening darkness, picking while I watched a lightning-laden storm front roll in, which was pretty great.  The banjo was muted, for the sake of my neighbours, who probably wouldn't appreciate loud  banjo stylings at 10pm on a Sunday night.

Mostly FMB first break practice - I put up a blog post with video just now.  I'll be curious to see how things improve over time.

gclaunch - Posted - 11/10/2013:  11:19:10

Sorry not having a picture, just never got around to it. I'm at the John C. Folk School just before our end of the week "concert".

Viewed your video of FMB....yep, it's really exciting to get something that sounds like banjo music...keep it slow and even...good to compare yourself on a now and then basis.

Sean, when I was a the jam camp a couple of weeks ago one of the participants played and sang it...not too fast, but very smooth and clear...this motivated me to try it again. Started practicing at home and my wife came in the music room all misty eyed...said her and her dad (now deceased) used to sing it together when she was a little girl and it was their favorite...how can I not learn it now?

Getting good practice today, will post later on that.

gclaunch - Posted - 11/10/2013:  19:15:21

Practice today......an hour this morning working on Unclouded Day - picking melody only with metronome - started at 70 bpm and worked up to 100 bpm. That was a lot harder than I thought, the metronome is a harsh mistress. last 15 min practiced my break around 90 bpm with the metronome.
This afternoon...another hour doing the same with the metronome and Grandfather's clock, kept it fairly slow, have the A part pretty well memorized. Worked on the B part - the chimes-made a loop of them including the measure before and the measure after...will continue on that tomorrow.

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/10/2013:  20:56:56

Excellent work on the picture!

It's interesting, I find playing with the camera running very much like playing for other people - all those things I thought I could play well falter, and the reality of how well I know them becomes apparent. It's a positive thing, I think; it's good to have an opportunity to add the pressure of an audience without having to actually have an audience beyond oneself :)

Monday is always busy, as I have evening commitments, but I picked up the banjo for five minutes while getting the kids ready for school/getting ready for work, and went over the FMB first break. I'm just trying to get it memorised, and every little helps, I think. I usually manage to find some time after getting home late on Monday night.

I'm away for the weekend in a few days, still working out if I can take a banjo, and if I'll have time while away to play it...

swamplunker - Posted - 11/10/2013:  21:21:11

Did an hour and 45 minutes today with a ten minute rest after the hour, worked on J.D.s' melodic Bluegrass book, Circular scale( I call it the overlapping scale), Redwing, Bill Cheatham, Big Sandy River, Whiskey, Dixie Hoedown. I'm not trying to memorize these, just keep going through them to keep new melodic stuff comin' at me. Then I found the page of Ark. Traveler in G that I rewrote in line tab, had been slightly M.I.A., worked on that, and finally, did break down some of the harder parts of Powder Creek into one and two measure sections and got them a little better. I guess I see the metronome as a tool for steadiness, Gerald, at least that's how it helps me, as well as quickly getting over a flub and keeping going, but I try not to push my speed with it. Last time I did that, and it was only a couple months ago, my body felt tense from staying "clenched" for so long. Usually now, I remember to let the speed come gradually, so I put a governer in my metronome....Just kidding. Goodnight all. P.S. Gerald--they allow bluegrass at the John C. Folk school? I never heard of him, just folks like him............

DLQFan - Posted - 11/10/2013:  21:34:45

     Great topic.  I've been playing for about 12 years, on and off, but getting serious within the last year or so.  There was a time when I was fast on speed, but only in segments and did not know too many great licks or up the neck things.

     I took time to review my old Geoff Hohwald material, which I am still doing, and getting better with up the neck but my speed is lacking.  I used to be able to plant my little AND ring fingers on the head of the banjo but not only my little finger will stay put which, from reading a lot on this site, is completely okay.

     I have been very frustrated with my speed issues and right hand coordination lately, to the point where I sometime feel like sending my banjo on an air ride.  the thing that keeps me picking it up now every day is my love for bluegrass music, my desire to get better, and my continued hope that I will get better.  I soft practice a lot at slower speeds while watching TV and what not and keep trying to learn new licks and practice them plenty before I move onto the next one.  I find it important to take brakes in between practice time to reduce frustration and let things sink in.

     Like I said, I really want to get better and any advice from you pros on here is appreciated!!!

     Adam

picker51 - Posted - 11/11/2013:  14:18:04

Happy Veteran's Day to all you Vets out there. Thanks for your service!

Not sure if I am one of the six, but have been playing off and on for 13 years. One thing I have learned is not to let practice slide for very long or you will lose what you had. Dexterity seems to wane and parts of the tune are forgotten and you have to start from square one. I use Murphy Method and tab from my Earl Scruggs book. I like Murphy's method because you can hear and see whats going on. Seeing is the best part. Eventually I would like to get a bluegrass band going or join one. Some of us at church sit around and jam,  but its not the same; However, it is fun.

Practiced an hour today. Worked on banjo aerobics and then worked on Reuben, Old Joe Clark, and FMB. Speed, speed, speed, where is the speed???? Just kidding. Seems like a long time coming but its coming slowly.Trying not to over do it and get bored. Hanging in there and doing my best....Schlange, I like the Jed Clampett tune also.

Schlange, let me know if I am one of the six. Thanks,

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/11/2013:  14:29:55

Two hours last night, and ten minutes this morning. I'm getting much smoother with the Foggy Mountain Breakdown break, and can run through the part I've learned, slowly, fairly cleanly. I'm getting a sense of which notes should be emphasised, too, as the tune becomes more familiar.

schlange - Posted - 11/11/2013:  15:14:22

About half an hour this morning--intended to practice more at the office today, but it's looking like that may not happen! Arg! 

Why can't I just be a full-time banjo player? 

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/11/2013:  15:16:58

Why can't I just be a full-time banjo player? 

gclaunch - Posted - 11/11/2013:  19:02:38

Yep, got an hour and a half in this morning, used the metronome the whole time...still working on Grandfather's clock, good point about using the metronome for "steadiness". I kept it at one speed today and feel I had better results...I, also tend to clench up when it is either too fast or too slow. Interestingly, at the jam camp a couple of weeks ago and also at at workshop this summer (the folk school), I was "critiqued" concerning speeding up during my breaks and not maintaining a constant speed. Obviously a goal I need to attend to.

swamplunker - Posted - 11/11/2013:  22:24:02

Practiced for an hour with my buddy Dave --on guitar today- him, that is, me banjo, him heap big guitar. Worked on, and pretty much finished the arrangement for Arkansas Traveler in three keys; D, G and C, with a final return to D. He has one capo removal to do during the song, and I had to figure out a way to turn a dropped g (dropped to f# before the song) back up to g and then down again. On the way up, I used a roll to start it in open g, but then make it the last note and tune it up a half step, for the tuning down, I hit the high G and brought it down to F# after the G, as if it a single-note g slurred to an f#, this is when you're back in the key of D at the end. If I ever find out how to record and post tunes, that could be one.

DLQFan - Posted - 11/11/2013:  22:43:40

     Working on some Train 45 and working on playing slow and taking a lighter touch to the strings until my fluidness builds up.  Trying to focus on keeping my right thumb straight so it will stop with the "fingers down the chalkboard" sound as I hit the strings.  I've given up on planting my ring finger...lol

schlange - Posted - 11/12/2013:  07:33:52

An hour this morning. Worked on Wabash backup from Janet's book. I had to slow down the MP3s to 70 and 80% in order to play along--but that's better than playing with no backing track, so I did it.

Also played through  my set list using my iphone drum machine as a metronome (which is much more fun than a metronome). Played them all at 80BPM to keep it clean.

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/12/2013:  07:43:27

quote:

---

Originally posted by swamplunker

If I ever find out how to record and post tunes, that could be one.

---

Do it!  I want to hear :)

I've stayed up far too late practicing tonight, but got a good three hours in, just working on Foggy Mountain Breakdown.  It's nice when little bits start to come together and it starts to flow a little more easily.  Plenty of time still needed on that one, but it's progressing well.  

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/12/2013:  08:17:25

Had a good focused practice this morning - first 15 minutes was rolls - I like the Dillard roll especially with the 3 finger chords (+ pinkie) I am using to learn melodies up the neck.  The Dillard roll puts the focus on the first two strings where lots and lots of melody notes reside.

Then about 30 minutes of three finger chords (+ pinkie) up the neck practicing my first short term goal of a decent high break to "WW Flower".  It was SLOW tempo but ok melody wise and filler notes.  One note is missing from my routine but I KNOW that note will show up one day and I don't even have a real concern about it now.

Also noodled with a couple of other songs up the neck.  WOW! The three finger chords (+ pinkie) was right on - timing and melody was slow but EASY.  It seems to me the process is working great in developing new high breaks.  It reminds me of the first (and maybe the most memorable) lesson I ever learned in a jam camp setting:  I went to jam camp where Alan Munde was my first instructor.  After he called roll he went over to close the door to the classroom, but before he closed the door he yelled very loud down the hallway of the college classroom building:  "Don't tell anyone but it's all the same thing over and over" ....  I have come to believe that he was telling us that there are huge similarities in songs, rolls, melodies, progressions, licks, etc.  Phil

swamplunker - Posted - 11/12/2013:  09:39:40

I may have never explained how truly low-tech I am. This is my first computer, I've only had it since may, I don't know how to record onto or write tab on the computer, if anyone can tell me in simple English ,I'd be glad to learn. If people say "download the app through the modem", or something like that, I'm already lost. I think the mando site recommended a good mike for recording, I can get a mike, don't know what kind of jack, where to plug it in, I have the medium-sized windows 8 for dummies, I am a pretty decent direction follower but I haven't found that book very helpful at all....

picker51 - Posted - 11/12/2013:  11:47:33

Practiced 45 minutes today. Jumped right into Reuben. Nice tune. I only played it today because its in D tuning and I didn't want to jump back and forth on the tunings so played it over and over..

Schlange, I could be a full time banjo player but would starve to death..... quickly!!!!!

gclaunch - Posted - 11/12/2013:  15:54:24

Pretty good workout today...over an hour and a half this morning and again another hour and a half this afternoon....not really marking time, I just sit down to practice and it seems like when I look up to take a good break, the time has already passed! Lots'a metronome work...I've found out that if I know the tune and don't have to worry about fingering then the metronome is a lot easier - regardless of speed....been keeping it in the 80bpm range, seems comfortable to me while working on Grandfather's Clock.

Sounds like everybody really put in the work today with their practicing.

swamplunker - Posted - 11/12/2013:  18:53:45

I absolutely agree about the fingering needing to be decided before bringing in the metronome, Gerald, I found that out recently too, there is that very early stage of learning a tune where you don't want it in the picture, but it does help build steadiness once you get that decided. Just had to agree, now I gotta practice.

swamplunker - Posted - 11/12/2013:  22:59:53

Did an hour and fifteen minutes just now, split as follows: Warmup on a few standards from the memorized list: Cumberland Gap, Wildwood Flower, Lonesome Road Blues, Worried Man Blues. Then newly-finalized version of Arkansas Traveler in D with modulations to G and C, I was practicing putting in the two 5th-peg tuning parts from f# to g and back down to f# when the song returns to D, next worked on, actually just sight-read a couple times each, four tunes from the Banjo Newsletter which came today, I tend to usually go for the stuff that's already in standard G-tuning so I did Will the Circle be unbroken from the Earls' way column, Wreck of the old 97, Eddie Collins, then a Herb Pederson song tabbed by Ross Nickerson called OLd Man at the Mill. I did this one several times through before I realized, I know this solo. On the Dillards Copperfields album, with Doug absent, they do the Old Man tune, banjo notes with a cool echo and sustain, that's the song, Old Man at the Mill. I'm glad to have the notes for something I always liked. Ended up with an eccentric, early Tony Trischka tune called The jig is up. Which is funny because I just saw that tune today on the BHO tab section, I can only download PDF files as far as I know, I downloaded 7 or 8 from that website today. Tonight, from those, I worked on Billy in the Lowground, and Bluegrass in the Backwoods. That was the last thing I did, but the second last was working on Powder Creek by Alan Munde, second day of working specifically on the 12-16th fret slide in the second half of the first page. Time to go to sleep, goodnight my fiver friends.

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/13/2013:  08:16:36

As usual worked on rolls for about 20 minutes - I have finally come to realize the real value to me for the rolls is gaining the dexterity, improved timing and using rolls for backup.  Not to reduce the value of rolls practice - but when it comes to playing the song - it seems to me that the improvements in dexterity and the timing practice has been more than worthwhile but the structured rolls kind of take a back seat to finding the melody and getting the song played.  Probably not well worded but I believe the idea is solid.

I now have the backup tracks (recorded by my son) that I will use for recording "WW Flower" which will include a high banjo break.  It's nice to have the actual tracks I will be playing against (and recording) - I use The Amazing Slow Downer with about 75% of the target tempo at this time in developing the high break.

We jam tomorrow night - might have 10 or 12 ..... I think we probably will not have some of the "big boys" from the last jam - we ain't that good for the folks that have been jamming at the very advanced level.  However, we are A. Having Fun!  B.  Learning!  C.  Getting Better!  This week we have a mic on a mic stand and a boom for rotating around the group for folks who want to use it to announce song, key and chords if they choose.  Also - if they want a mic for singing - thar it is!    Phil

schlange - Posted - 11/13/2013:  09:08:27

Guess who has two thumbs and learned the up the neck break to FMB this morning? This guy! 

Spent about 45 minutes on it. When I first tried to learn this I got stuck on the beginning choke lick--it's a challenge to get the coordination down. So I had been noodling on that a bit each morning, but going no further. Once I was comfortable with it I continued on. Viola!

andspence - Posted - 11/13/2013:  09:14:18

Hey guys.  As much as I enjoy being part of this group and reading all the updates.  I feel that my lack of contribution is unfair.  I'll bow out now, and allow some other member that can actually commit to contributing to join.  Thanks all!

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/13/2013:  12:42:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by andspence

 

Hey guys.  As much as I enjoy being part of this group and reading all the updates.  I feel that my lack of contribution is unfair.  I'll bow out now, and allow some other member that can actually commit to contributing to join.  Thanks all!

---

Aww, I hope you're at least getting some playing time in occasionally!

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/13/2013:  12:45:41

I put in four hours last night (yay!), just practicing the FMB initial break, and I do actually have a slightly sore index finger from the repetitive sliding!  I'm really pleased with progress, and even playing faster I find myself just more aware of what my fingers are doing.  I was going to record myself last night, with the added atmosphere of thunder and lightning, but the storm blacked out the power, and that ceased to be a workable option :P

Now to get in fifteen minutes before work!

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/13/2013:  14:00:17

Dammit, I forgot there was a time limit on editing posts!  Pretend the above says "Practiced for fifteen minutes before work and recorded progress for a blog post" :P

gclaunch - Posted - 11/13/2013:  15:49:13

Thanks for the agreement Sean, it's good to know people have similar thoughts on how to approach stuff.
Four hours, octopus! did you use all "eight" arms. LOL. It feels good to sometimes to be the groove for prolonged practices...don't get so tired that you burn yourself out, though.
Let us know, Phil, how the jam turns out tomorrow night, sounds like you are cranked up and ready.
How about another sound bite, Eric, with both breaks?

Practice today...Walked through Grandfather's Clock very analytically, recorded,and identified several trouble spots...did practice "loops" of the trouble spots and just worked on them, some metronome, seemed to help....can play all the way through from memory now, and have the words to the first verse also memorized. Feel like I'm neglecting some of my other stuff, plan on working from playlist tomorrow.....got in two hours today - one in the morning and one this afternoon.

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/13/2013:  17:01:25

I do like that idea of just looping over the trouble spots!  I'm going to appropriate that for my own practicing.  I'm really finding it interesting to read how everyone approaches their playing and practice in general.

As for the four hours, I'm just overcompensating for a planned weekend away without a banjo :)

swamplunker - Posted - 11/14/2013:  00:12:31

Congratulations Eric, I guess you broke down the barriers to the neck break to the breakdown, now you can take a .........rest. Speaking of, I did 45 minutes, went to take a ten minute rest in the recliner, and went to sleep. Did half an hour of standards and 15 min. of Powder creek, got much less done than yesterday......Don't be a stranger, Andrew, write us with your progress however often, you know how your mother and I feel about this........g'night fiver friends.

schlange - Posted - 11/14/2013:  08:40:39

About 45 minutes this morning, making sure I remembered FMB. I can play it decently at 80bpm, almost at 90... but holy cow, Earl sure played it much faster than that! I don't know how the man did it.

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/14/2013:  09:03:26

I saw Earl play FMB on The Tonight Show ..... I don't know how fast the tempo was but it was FAST!!!  He played with several other outstanding (duh!!) players including Pete W.  As I recall - Pete told us in jam camp (up in Boulder) that he (Pete) played the song itself rather than backup licks so that he would be READY for his break.   It was a great FMB performance!   Phil

gclaunch - Posted - 11/14/2013:  19:07:38

Practice today: only about an hour and 45. no metronomes or recorders, just playing Grandfather's lock and Unclouded day and a few others off my play list. Instead of playing in my regular spot "music room" moved to other locations in the house and also played standing up...it all felt different in many respects, but overall better. I had a teacher once that advocated playing in front of a mirror so you can "see" what you are doing, disconcerting at first, but I think it does help for you to see what you are doing...posture, facial expressions, movements, etc.

swamplunker - Posted - 11/14/2013:  21:21:39

Didn't get to practice today, and I'll be out of town a couple days, have four gigs in the next three days, all violin or guitar, my banjo said it's gettin' mighty tired of waitin'!

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/14/2013:  21:54:49

Played for about an hour last night, and fifteen minutes this morning, gradually getting more natural with Foggy Mountain Breakdown, first break.  And, with that, I'm off for a few days without a banjo...

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/15/2013:  05:20:24

Good practice yesterday - good jam last night.  Our Katy Jam Buddies Jam had 9 players - even some of the "big boys" that I was thinking might not come back.  I was VERY pleased to see them return.  They help us improve.  I brought the mic on a stand w/boom and it was pretty well received by several folks.  It is a nice little addition for use by folks that want to announce song, key, chords if they want to discuss and do some singing if they want.  Rotation of selections around the room are working much better (you can pass if you want to) - we are getting there on procedures and we are getting better on sounds!

Kemo Sabe - in the middle of playing "Wildwood Flower" in the Key of C ..... with no plan or scheme .... took a high break on the "WW Flower".  It surprised me more than anyone else in the room.  I don't know what got into me but I just did it.  It was not a train wreck and it was not purdy.  I believe it was about mid-way between train wreck and purdy.  Next jam I will plan for the high break, I will practice that high break many times at target tempo before that jam and I will move the needle further away from train wreck and closer to PURDY!  The short term goals I set a couple of weeks ago are within reach.  Phil

schlange - Posted - 11/15/2013:  07:43:52

1 hour this morning. Worked on FMB of course, but also started working on Murphy's "Fireball  Mail"--just learned the first section.

I recorded myself playing FMB (lower and upper breaks) this morning at 110BPM. Screw ups and all! Here you go: youtube.com/watch?v=_CFCCsgX6E...=youtu.be

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/15/2013:  08:22:34

Good job Eric!!!!!

gclaunch - Posted - 11/15/2013:  09:00:12

Thanks for the posting..............sounds good!

gclaunch - Posted - 11/15/2013:  14:07:21

Got my hour and a half in today...trying to work very deliberate and exact...had a hard time getting stuff to come together today....something has happened with my right hand position or the way I"m holding the banjo or something....the back of the pick on my ring finger kept getting caught behind the first string! not a lot, just enough to be really annoying...Tomorrow back to scales and rolls and metronome to see if I can pin things down.

automatic octopus - Posted - 11/17/2013:  12:48:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by schlange

 

1 hour this morning. Worked on FMB of course, but also started working on Murphy's "Fireball  Mail"--just learned the first section.

I recorded myself playing FMB (lower and upper breaks) this morning at 110BPM. Screw ups and all! Here you go: youtube.com/watch?v=_CFCCsgX6E...=youtu.be

---

That was great!  I see what you mean about the drums being a fun alternative to the metronome, too :)

I got back last night somewhat exhausted from a weekend away, but managed half an hour of practice before I had no option but to sleep.  I have a similar trip in another two weeks (I'm doing scuba diving courses on a nearby island - living near coral reefs has its advantages!), and next time I'm going to take a banjo with me, even if I have to wander down to the beach to play while other people are sleeping.

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 11/17/2013:  14:01:48

Today I got some real good practice with rolls - playing against my 'Banjo Rolls Trainer' app on my IPad.  Turned on the TV - NFL - turned down the sound and got after those rolls.  Then practiced low break and high break of "WW Flower" (key of C) ..... I got so relaxed that I suddenly realized that I was playing the high break (one of my two short term goals) at target tempo and without looking at fret board.  That is a first for me.  Fingers got relaxed and acted they knew what they were doing!  Song sounded pretty good to me.  I think I am going to nominate pinkie as QB - main man on the field of frets.  OMG - progress is happening.  Phil

Oh - & I love this group thing!  I have made more progress since joining this group that I did for quite a while (understatement) before joining.