soulcarve - Posted - 09/09/2013:  09:27:39

Alrighty then...

I've been playing for nearly 3 months, have the Deering GT Special Gumby (the one with the tone ring), and have located two local bluegrass style banjos for sale. Don't get me wrong, I love my Goodtime Special -- not sure I'll ever sell it.  However, I am considering purchasing one of these banjos (Mastercraft Elite Maple and Baldwin Ode) since each is locally available.

Baldwin Ode $899 (1st photo) At a pawn shop, all they can tell me over email is Baldwin Ode -- the shop is 50 miles away, haven't seen it up close.

Mastercraft Elite Maple $475 (with Hard Case) (2nd-3rd photos)

I am wondering if the Mastercraft is equal, or at least close, to the RK-35, which everyone seems to rave about.  I'd most likely have to get an RK-35 new as I don't see them used much.  But then, I don't see many Mastercraft Elite's used either, and these are sold out on the banjohut site.

Some pics of the banjos for sale here.  There may be some wiggle room on the prices, but don't know how much.

Thanks In Advance!

Ladelnutts - Posted - 09/09/2013:  09:38:57

IMO you'd be better off to get an RK-35. From what I've read and heard those things are the best bang for the buck.

eagleisland - Posted - 09/09/2013:  09:43:56

The Ode, from what I can tell, is a Model C, and $900 is a very fair price for one of those in good condition.  If it was me and I had the scratch, I'd tuck the cash in my pocket and go play it.  If it's in good shape, I'd take it home right then and there.

Of the other two, I'd go with the RK.

Here's an archived thread on Ode banjos. Odes were very good banjos and still enjoy a high reputation among aficionados.

grm405 - Posted - 09/09/2013:  10:01:16

Ode.  I would skip the Mastercraft in any case.  You are into good banjo price category.

Gerry

Old Hickory - Posted - 09/09/2013:  10:21:27

If the Ode is in good condition, I'd go for that.  Much more comfortable neck than the RK-35, in my opinion.  And a classic, quality banjo from an era in which Gibsons were not so hot.

The Mastercraft might sound good.  What makes it different from the RK-35 is that the Mastercraft is one of many generic Asian banjos coming from the same few factories built from the same parts as most Asian banjos and different from each other only in name and some cosmetics.

The RK-35, on the other hand, is built exclusively by Recording from components specifically designed by them.  The tone ring is especially good and important.  It is based on a popular U.S. ring of the recent past.  The RK flange is used by some small shop makers in their own builds.  The entire pot, not including the resonator, is the same as on RK's higher-end banjos.  The cost savings come from the wood parts being plainer, the neck being multipiece, and the tuners being less expensive ones. 

Not saying you shouldn't buy the Mastercraft for $475.  And at that price, you might get your money back shoild you ever sell.

But the Ode for $900 is my pick.  Followed by the RK-35.

Brerrabbit - Posted - 09/09/2013:  10:33:56

Had a Mastercraft and now have an RK-35.  Buy the RK and don't look back!!

dmiller - Posted - 09/09/2013:  10:40:38

Hi there SC.  I agree with the others that ODE would be the one to go for (especially at that price!) and then the RK.  If you want to call the pawn shop where it is, have them take off the resonator and look at the label on the inside on the rim.  There should be three numbers there.  For example: 10 - 79 - 23.

The first number (10) is the month (October)/ the second number is the year (1979)/ and the third number means it's the 23'rd instrument made in the month of October, 1979.  Yes - - that is a C model ODE and a VERY high quality instrument.  Made out of walnut exactly like the more expensive ODE D, but it has different inlays on the neck than the D does, and the C models weren't gold plated.

900 bucks is a great price for it (they were selling for over 1,500 a few years ago) and if you can drive over to look it over, it would be worth your time.  As with any banjo, make sure it hasn't been damaged or the neck warped, etc. etc.  How much is the asking price for the RK, and is it near you to try out?  Good luck in whatever you choose, but that ODE is a steal followed closely by the RK.  Let us know what you decide to go with, eh?  

Edited by - dmiller on 09/09/2013 10:44:36

soulcarve - Posted - 09/09/2013:  10:51:42

Thanks, I appreciate all the replies. I just called the pawn, and waiting on someone to call me back with more details. I may try to drive over in the AM and take a look, with cash in pocket of course.

dmiller, thanks for the date code info, I'll ask when they call me back.

There is no RK's available used, or locally -- I'd have to order one new. I am putting the Mastercraft idea behind me thanks to all your replies, not to mention that is a 4hr round trip to even look at the Mastercraft, so not too disappointed.

Keep the replies coming, I enjoy learning more and more about the Ode -- thanks eagleisland for the thread reference.

dmiller - Posted - 09/09/2013:  11:07:21

Here's a video of Jack Hicks picking his ODE D when he was a bluegrass boy with Bill Monroe.  The C model that you're looking at sounds (and is built) just like this one.  The only difference (as I said earlier) is the gold plating/ the inlay pattern/ and of course the picker doing all those licks!  

Hey - - I just thought of one more thing to ask the pawn shop about.  Ask them if the banner with the word Baldwin in it (right above the word ODE in the peg head) is made of metal (tin), or pearl inlay.  Baldwin used the pearl first, and then switched to the tin banner later on and I think that was only done on the C models.  Both are good, but the use of the pearl means it was an earlier instrument.  You'll find out what year it was made when they look at the label.  Again - - good luck.  

(edited to add  - - -) since it's a pawn shop, you could probably talk them down in price.  Just a thought if you're a good "haggler".  

Edited by - dmiller on 09/09/2013 11:09:31

beegee - Posted - 09/09/2013:  12:15:14

The Baldwin Ode is in a class above the RK which is a class above the Mastercraft. I'd buy the Ode for sure.

banjoman56 - Posted - 09/09/2013:  14:43:14

Yep, I would also go with the ODE if it's in good condition. I wouldn't even consider the Mastercraft.

dmiller - Posted - 09/09/2013:  14:57:21

Pawn shops are notorious for buying super cheap, and then inflating the selling price to the max.  I don't know what the pawn shop near you paid for that ODE C, but my ODE D was recently stolen (I got it back), and the pawn shop that bought it (Pawn America) paid $500 bucks for it.  I've no clue what they intended to sell it for (the police involved in the case told me to forget about even going to ask them), but that aside they (the pawn shop) bought a $3,000 banjo for $500 bucks.

I'm guessing they would have AT LEAST asked $1,500 if not more.  If you're a good haggler and can dicker on the price, you can probably get that pawn shop down in price.  Even so - - $899 is a very good price for an instrument of that quality and pedigree.  If you can get it for less, all the better.  If the instrument is solid (as most ODE's are), you're a winner either way.

BANJO TONY - Posted - 09/09/2013:  15:25:17

man you better go for the ODE.you would be a fool to pass it up.I would offer them $800.00 cash,no tax let them pay that. or better yet try $700.00 & see if they bite,if not work your way up from there. better to sell you that banjo then it sits there for God knows how long.

eagleisland - Posted - 09/09/2013:  18:01:18

Actually, dmiller does raise a good point somewhat circumlocuitously.  You don't want to buy "hot" property - you could end up being out the money.

Definitely try to find out how long the pawn shop has had the banjo in inventory.  Could be that it's been sitting there for a while and they just want to get rid of it.  But the ask on that instrument is LOW if it's in good shape, which isn't hard to figure out. Pawnshops have access to the Interwebs, too.

soulcarve - Posted - 09/09/2013:  18:32:07

Thanks guys, for the interest in my post and all the information offered. I am planning to make a trip to see the banjo, hopefully before it sells. Thought I could make it tomorrow, it may have to wait. I know for a fact that they've had it for at least a month. BTW, hope their not reading this thread :-D.

Eagleisland, great word btw, "circumlocuitously". Point taken on pawnshop dealing of property, I believe there are laws here that they have to follow and hold it for so many days before selling.

So from everything I've read, all these Odes are made in the U.S., is that correct? Are these pretty close to the quality of the Gibson 250 everyone aims to acquire? I apologize for my novice knowledge of the Ode? I'm in my late 40's, and should this prove to be a great condition instrument it may well be the last one I every buy -- famous last words right?

I was planning on making them a lower offer of course, not afraid to try and get a better bargain -- I know cash talks in these places. I've already asked them over the phone if there was some wiggle room on the price before I make the drive and they said they are willing to "negotiate".

If I get it I'll post here asap.

dmiller - Posted - 09/09/2013:  18:54:23

Ode banjos were made in Boulder Colorado.  When Baldwin bought them out, production moved to Arkansas.  All ODE C's (as well as the ODE D I have) were made in Arkansas.  Yes - - USA made, and since Baldwin was more interested in making pianos, they had all the machinery geared up and ready to produce machined parts for instruments.  I'm willing to bet that the ODE banjos were 100% American made, but don't quote me on that!  

eagleisland - Posted - 09/09/2013:  18:58:52

quote:

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Originally posted by soulcarve

So from everything I've read, all these Odes are made in the U.S., is that correct? Are these pretty close to the quality of the Gibson 250 everyone aims to acquire? I apologize for my novice knowledge of the Ode? I'm in my late 40's, and should this prove to be a great condition instrument it may well be the last one I every buy -- famous last words right?



 

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Odes were made in the US, yes.  Which shouldn't impact your decision; some fine banjos are being made overseas, and anyway it really doesn't matter where it was made if you're buying it on the used market.

As to "close to the quality of the RB 250" - well, that's hard to say.  Gibson banjos were very inconsistent in the time period during which this Ode was likely built.  Some were very good, a lot were mediocre, and some were lousy. Ode during that time period is now thought of producing, on the whole, better banjos than Gibson was producing at the time.

Odes are NOT Gibson.  They are Odes. They sound a little different, and the necks are quite different. Personally, I love the feel of Ode necks - my first banjo was/is an aluminum-pot Ode of roughly the same vintage as the one you're considering.  The neck is lovely and slim, though I'd add that it has a slightly longer scale than most Mastertone-style banjos.

During their run, Odes were played by some top pros - including several of the most respected banjo players who ever lived.

If this banjo is legit, authentic and in good, shape, you should jump on it.  Even if you can't talk 'em down you'll be getting a fine banjo at a great price.

BTW - if you have a friend who knows about to drag along with you, do so.  You want to look at this thing thoroughly - could have a neck repair, be poorly set up, a rim de-lam or something else.  A neck repair, if it's a good job, won't impact the banjo's playability but will have an impact on price. Rim de-lams need a new rim - reduction in price. As for setup... odds are this one WON'T be well set up, so if your bud can throw a little love in that direction, you may get a better sense for what this banjo really is.

dmiller - Posted - 09/09/2013:  19:03:31

Gibson RB-250 banjo's are "hit or miss" depending on the year, and what went into them.  I know, since I have one.  Mine is a 1962 RB-250 that has incredible "crack and growl" to the tone.  I've picked on a few RB-250's that were separated from mine by just a few years, and they didn't sound anywhere near as good.

The RB-250 (mine) is an all mahogany model, and my ODE D is walnut (like the C model you're looking at).  Maple is the "brightest" of woods for sound/ Mahogany has the most "mellow" sound/ and Walnut falls in between the two.

I'm still scratching my head over  - - -  "circumlocuitously"!!   

The Old Timer - Posted - 09/10/2013:  16:04:18

You better grab that Ode before someone here on the BHO beats you to it. Hands down a bargain on a great American vintage instrument. They usually sell for over $1000. If it has a hardshell case with it, so much the better. If not, negotiate for it, the pawn shop owner may be holding it back to sweeten a deal.

The Ode was considered BETTER than the Gibson Mastertone in the 1970s.

dmiller - Posted - 09/10/2013:  21:43:27

quote:

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Originally posted by The Old Timer

The Ode was considered BETTER than the Gibson Mastertone in the 1970s.

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And they still are.   

Helix - Posted - 09/11/2013:  04:34:26

There's a joke here, I called a pawn shop looking for parts banjos, "Banjo"?? Hell no, no banjos here.
So it's likely it'll still be there, good choice.

thefolkshop - Posted - 09/11/2013:  06:33:24

Buy the Ode or send me their phone number, Paul

BANJO TONY - Posted - 09/11/2013:  07:23:18

Paul are you going to keep it or flip it ?. after all you are "the folk shop". ps I would also like it & it would have a good home.

soulcarve - Posted - 09/11/2013:  08:23:29

Hehe guys, these must be some really special banjos.  If I don't grab it I'll pass along the info in short order. I will be there later today or first thing in the morning.  

I'd really like to know how to identify rim de-lam (sounds like a fancy dinner).  Is it basically just the delaminating of the rim wood, or the wood plies thereof?  Hopefully I'll be able to tell if there are any neck repairs, etc.?  Any other things I should look for pertaining to condition?

Edited by - soulcarve on 09/11/2013 08:26:22

BanjoJeff - Posted - 09/11/2013:  08:42:15

You'll see the wood plies starting to separate if there's any visible de-lamination.

mikehalloran - Posted - 09/11/2013:  09:06:53

I paid $190 for my ODE long neck at  a pawn shop. Found it hanging on the back wall with the agenreiAsian junk. The Muse headstock logo threw the owner off I suppose. It was there for months, I was told, covered with dust. I was so thrown by the price it didn't occur to me to haggle. The Lifton case was a happy surprise.

My buddy was interested in getting a backup banjo and looking at a low end Iida. I finally told him that if he didn't buy the Muse, I would - and did.

thefolkshop - Posted - 09/11/2013:  09:29:02

Of course I would flip it. What a deal! I was just giving a tongue-in-cheek prod for the prospective buyer saying that there was no contest among his options. BUY THE OME!!

granada40 - Posted - 09/11/2013:  17:43:00

My dad owns a Mastercraft Elite Maple and it is an incredible banjo for under $1,000. It has absolutely great projection and it's constructed extremely well. He owns a Mastercraft Burled Walnut as well, which is also a killer banjo. Highly recommend Mastercraft!

BANJO TONY - Posted - 09/12/2013:  07:42:39

a Master craft Elite may be a very nice banjo,but its no ODE banjo by a long shot.I have an ODE model C that I paid $600.00 for an its one great banjo I love walnut banjos. that's one great deal even at $900.00.I would buy it in a heart beat if it were me.

Edited by - BANJO TONY on 09/12/2013 07:53:52

McUtsi - Posted - 09/12/2013:  09:32:43

I agree,no contest...Baldwin ODE.McUtsi

MBCrawford - Posted - 09/12/2013:  11:35:03

The Ode is by far the better banjo, I purchased my style "C" back new in the middle 70's and it's still a real monster today...........

soulcarve - Posted - 09/12/2013:  16:36:51

I bought the Ode today! :-) Wow, is it loud and I think good condition for a banjo made in `75. Different sound than I'm use to with my Goodtime Special, but I still love the Deering.
The Ode needs a bit of cleaning up. No cracks that I can find, some fret wear on top three and a bit of varnish wear on the side of the rim, but see no delamination problems of the rim plies whatsoever beneath the resonator.

I will post some photos shortly if anyone is interested in seeing more of this banjo.

Thanks again for all the help and information everyone offered. BTW, I got it for a great price :-).

soulcarve - Posted - 09/12/2013:  16:43:36

Here's some pics.

BANJO TONY - Posted - 09/12/2013:  16:48:41

Good luck you got one great banjo,enjoy. read up about that walnut wood they used,there is no more to be found anywhere if I'am right.

mikehalloran - Posted - 09/12/2013:  23:19:43

We ODE owners aren't such an exclusive crowd but there's a finite number of those banjos and no more will ever be made. Welcome to the (unofficial) club!

dmiller - Posted - 09/12/2013:  23:39:15

quote:

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Originally posted by mikehalloran

 

We ODE owners aren't such an exclusive crowd but there's a finite number of those banjos and no more will ever be made. Welcome to the (unofficial) club!

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Yep, and yep, and yup.  The last of the ODE's were made in 1980.  If your's was made in 1975, you have an instrument that's had "time to settle in and mellow out and mature" for 38 years.  Purt near any time an ODE banjo is spotted in a jam session, it get's more attention than the Gibsons or other brands.  There's just "that something" that draws folks to ODE's.  Don't get me wrong - - I like the other brands too and they all sound good, but it seems that the ODE's always pique the "curiosity factor" from the crowd more than other makes and models.

Congrats on your (very) wise choice.  You have a banjo for life, but don't let that dissuade you from getting other banjos as time goes on!  You mentioned that you got it for a "great price".  You don't have to tell the amount you paid, but I was just curious if you got it for less than the $899 original asking price?  It sounds like "Ya done good!"  

BANJO TONY - Posted - 09/13/2013:  02:32:47

dmiller,the last time I spoke to Tanya at OME about my model c, ( a few years ago) she said I had one of the very last ones made in 1981 ?.can that be ? one or two were made that late ?.

eagleisland - Posted - 09/13/2013:  05:25:45

quote:

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Originally posted by soulcarve

 

I bought the Ode today! :-)

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Very cool.  The pix look good to me... seems you've got yourself a fine banjo there, and even if you paid full ask you got a great deal.  Guess great deals actually DO still show up in pawn shops now and again, even in these Interweb-connected days.

Great to know that we could be of help with this.

MBCrawford - Posted - 09/13/2013:  06:12:46

I agree, the Ode owners of the world are a great group, and the banjo is a great one too, congrats on the new member of you music family. I noticed the metal finish being a little dull, mine does the same thing and I have to try to keep it clean, but it takes a little time and work, but man is it worth it. I will always say this that Bobby Thompson was the main reason I bought my Ode, I heard him play live once and the banjo just great and he is a fantastic picker too.

soulcarve - Posted - 09/13/2013:  06:47:44

Thanks MH for welcoming me to the "unofficial club", I feel I am in real good company :-). I should add "Member of the unofficial ODE club" to my homepage here on bho. I am very pleased to have happened across this Mod C, and was able to rescue it -- thanks to all your help... and to think I had no clue as to its significance and rarity when I started this thread. To me it's an interesting story indeed, one that I should perhaps put to words on a blog (like Banjo Tony's) maybe one day I will, maybe. I played the haggle game a bit, and walked out with it under $600 -- I couldn't believe it, certainly they either didn't do their research, or they just wanted to move it.

I'll be either making a new post about what to clean the wood, chrome with on this banjo -- and have a couple other questions about worn varnish on side of rim. I'll dig around and see what I can find online, but any suggestions appreciated. I want to polish it up a bit for sure, just don't want to do anything that is going to ruin this banjo in the long run.

All the best, thanks again!

Brett - Posted - 09/13/2013:  07:45:20

not even a competition in my mind:  Ode.  I'm a mastertone flathead freak, but an ode is the only banjo I've bought again to replace one I sold decades ago.  They don't sound like mastertones, but they do sound wonderful.  They are truly gems.

arnie fleischer - Posted - 09/15/2013:  08:37:27

My friend, you have acquired a first class banjo at an incredible price.  It's no disrespect to the others you were considering to say that they are simply not in the same ballpark. I have a style C that I bought new in May 1973.  It was my first resonator banjo, as I was just beginning to learn bluegrass after many years playing old time music, and I can tell you that back then, they thoroughly outclassed new Gibsons.  They remain exceptional instruments.

soulcarve - Posted - 09/15/2013:  09:42:21

Thanks Arnie! I love the banjo and the lovely sound it produces -- and I've not even changed the strings yet. I've only been playing a little over 2 months, and never understood all the searching for a specific bluegrass sound, now I know :-). Blackberry Blossom, one of my favorite tunes, sounds amazing on it, well -- as amazing as a neophyte like me can play it. This Ode definitely sounds like nothing I've played up to now, not only loud, but a very distinguished, guttural tone -- well, you know.

One family member has already commented that perhaps I should take my practice sessions to the garage.