harleysuperglide - Posted - 05/14/2008:  16:54:10

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I just traded for this ODE Banjo and realy dont know what it is worth. Is there anybody out there that can give me a Idea what I have. On a scale from 0-10 it is a 8 on apperance,play a little banjo but mostly guitar so not that much in to banjos. Thnaks Everett

Everett E Stone

sctrms - Posted - 05/14/2008:  19:45:36

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Go to my page and see one of my top friends -- Ed Britt -- and drop him a note. He would most likely be your expert reference on everything Ode. Good choice for my two cents.

Scooter Muse
http://www.myspace.com/scootermuse
http://www.henrisnotions.com

grassrootphilosopher - Posted - 05/15/2008:  02:13:27

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I´d say that depending on when it was made (f.ex. Baldwin or Gretch made) and what condition it is in, the price would range in between 1.000,00 and 1.600,00 USD.

Olaf

BlueBanjo28 - Posted - 05/15/2008:  09:16:13

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It is a little more valuable if it has the Baldwin banner on it along with Ode. Around $2000 or without the Baldwin banner around
$1700 from what I have seen on Ebay.

sctrms - Posted - 05/15/2008:  09:24:37

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If its an ODE - it may be just that - BEFORE Baldwin and Gretch by the Ode Banjo Company in Boulder Colorado - as is the one I have. In that case, its actually going to be probably worth more than a Baldwin, Baldwin Ode or Gretch made Ode. Check the serial numbers and contact Ed Britt on my page and I assure you that you will get all the info you ever dreamed of on it.

Also - go to this link http://www.omebanjos.com and check out the history of Ode (whick eventually became OME and owned by Chuck Ogsbury who started Ode in the 60's. There is also a Yahoo Group of us Ode owners as well that you might want to check out.

Scooter Muse
http://www.myspace.com/scootermuse
http://www.henrisnotions.com

stanger - Posted - 05/15/2008:  11:42:12

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quote:

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Originally posted by grassrootphilosopher

I´d say that depending on when it was made (f.ex. Baldwin or Gretch made) and what condition it is in, the price would range in between 1.000,00 and 1.600,00 USD.

Olaf

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Hi, Olaf...
This is a common misunderstanding.

Except for the Balwins made in 1967 to Nov. 19679- very, very few in number- all Baldwins were made by Gretsch. Gretsch was also owned by Baldwin at that time. These banjos were made in Colorado and the original Ode factory. By Dec. 1969, that factory was closed and everything was moved to a new factory in Aransas. From then on, all Odes and Baldwins were Arkansas-made.

Don't presume that the banjos were made by Gretsch workers. They probably had a seperate crew of workers dedicated only to the banjos, as was the case with most other banjo makers. In most liklihood, the banjos were finished on the same line as the guitars, but that may have been the only part of construction that was shared.

regards,
Stanger


The pen is mightier than the pigs.

stanger - Posted - 05/15/2008:  12:02:26

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlueBanjo28

It is a little more valuable if it has the Baldwin banner on it along with Ode. Around $2000 or without the Baldwin banner around
$1700 from what I have seen on Ebay.

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Hi, Blue...
Not necessarily... it's rather complicated.

The Ode company existed for 10 years before Baldwin bought it. Chuck Ogsbury, the owner, developed his first wood rimmed banjos in 1965; before then, all Odes had aluminum rims. Every thing made was marked with "ODE" only during this decade.

When Baldwin bought the company in 1966, During that year and the next, banjos with only the ODE letters and others with a pearl banner with Balwin engraved into it were made. Some banjos had both ribbon and individual letters.

By 1969, all the banjos made had the ribbon only. The ribbon was origianlly pearl, and inlaid, but a similar ribbon made from aluminum was already being used on some Baldwin pianos, and this metal ribbon replaced the pearl within a year or so.

Many banjo players knew of the Ode brand, but fewer knew that the Badlwin was the same banjo. The Balwin company eventually realized this, and added the ODE letters underneath the metal Baldwin ribbon aound 1975-76. until mid to late 1977, all banjos had both.

Starting in late 77, the ribbon was dropped, so the banjos just had the letters again. They remained like this until the shop was closed for good in 1980.

Hi, Harley...
Most C Models in good shape, from whatever era and what they say (or don't) on the peghead, have sold for around $1500-2000 over the past 5 years. Until this recession, the prices on all Baldwins and Odes was slowly and steadily rising in small increments.
No one knows what's gonna happen this year for sure, but compared to what the same money will buy new, the C is still a great buy if in good shape.
regards,
Stanger

The pen is mightier than the pigs.

harleysuperglide - Posted - 05/15/2008:  12:43:24

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Thanks for all the info,It is a ODE/Baldwin 6505 C model and it is suppose to have been made in the late 60s to early 70s is what the guy I got it from told me. For the age of it it is in great shape,even the case is in great shape.Again thanks for the help.harley

Everett E Stone

sctrms - Posted - 05/15/2008:  12:46:02

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.....and my apologies to Stanger because I have been dealing so much with Ed Britt lately that I should have said talk to either of them on anything ODE's/Baldwin/Baldwin Odes! Sorry Mike but you know I'm not thinking clearly with my current dealings!!

Scooter Muse
http://www.myspace.com/scootermuse
http://www.henrisnotions.com

stanger - Posted - 05/15/2008:  23:28:11

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No prob, Scooter!
Normally, I wouldn't have jumped in, and would have let Ed do the typing, but he's kinda busy right now.

For those who don't know- Scooter has a whacking good Ode!

For sure, Ed knows his Ode stuff, and he and I are very good friends. We have spent many hours comparing notes, observations, and info, with a common goal... there are a lot of gaps in the relatively short history of the Baldwin Odes, and it's amazing how complicated and convoluted the story is becoming as we learn more. We make a good team- Ed is putting together a database slowly of serial numbers and detail changes, and I'm good at catching the visual differences. We bounce stuff back and forth in a verbal shorthand... and we're both deep Ode fanatics. There are some other guys, but they prefer to lurk here rather than post.

The history is more unusual than some other brands because there were no major changes in the design, the materials or the construction of the Baldwin Odes from the first to the last. They're all about equally good, but to really know them requires a lot of attention to often very minor details.

One thing is for sure- more info has emerged in the past 2 years than anytime in the past. Most of the info that's been posted on websites all over the net about this brand is either obsolete, fragmented, or incorrect to some degree.

And there are wide misconceptions about the brand as well. Most of them come from thinking of Baldwin Odes as comparable to Gibson's history, which had wide swings in construction and quality, but truly, the two brands aren't alike at all in their histories.

If anyone is really interested in the archane stuff, the place to go is the Yahoo! Ode banjo group.
regards.
Stanger

The pen is mightier than the pigs.

John Allison - Posted - 05/20/2008:  05:20:12

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I have an early model ODE C and think the world of it. Whatever you paid, you wiill enjoy it emensly and that makes whatever you paid worthwhile.

Froggie
"Courage is Fear that has said its prayers.

crsb - Posted - 05/21/2008:  20:21:57

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Mike,

I got a serial number for the year 1982 off Ebay (11-82-12). I think it's the one that B&B Guns had at one time since other than the 82 it's the same number and same Style D with gold and engraved arm rest. Baldwin didn't hang on to any and then put them out in later years or did they?

Joe

crsb

stanger - Posted - 05/21/2008:  22:41:17

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Hi, Joe...
That serial number must have been accidentally mis-represented. Ode never made any banjos in 1982 at all- by then, the entire Baldwin organization was bankrupt and in receivership.

The number you wrote, 11-82-12 , is in the correct manner, but the year is wrong. The way these number are read is:
month/month-year/year/-piece of the month. So this number means: 11 (November, 11th month), 82 (1982, the year), and 12 (the 12th banjo made in the month of November). The last year of Ode production was 1980; most likely, this banjo was made then. The pen may have slipped, or the worker accidentally used a #2 incorrectly, or the eBay seller made a typo.

The 1980 D's are identical to all the others from late 1977 on. I've seen a few odd inlays, but that's about all. The last time the Baldwin banner was used was in early 1977, and those banjos had both the ribbon and the Ode cut pearl letters. The ribbon was dropped in the latter half of the year.

It took Baldwin 10 years to figure out that the Ode name was better known to banjo players than the Baldwin name. They created a lot of confusion as to who made what that lingers on to this day, and a lot of voodoo has sprung up due to it.
regards,
Stanger

The pen is mightier than the pigs.

crsb - Posted - 05/28/2008:  19:27:09

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Who or where are the rights to the Ode name? Does Chuck still have them or does baldwin still own them?

Joe

crsb

FXHERE - Posted - 05/29/2008:  05:30:37

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Gibson bought Baldwin so I assume they own the name---So far I own the last Ode D made serial number 12-80-46. This is according to numbers turned in to the Ode Group and we have been trying to fine a higher number..So all you Ode D owners check your numbers and see if you can fine a higher number or any Ode with an 81 year date. Doug

Pre-War Picker-----New Banjo

stanger - Posted - 05/29/2008:  06:04:44

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Hi, Joe...
Good question!
Chuck hasn't owned the name since he sold the company; Baldwin bought the name as part of the deal. He has no association with Ode at all now. Since he has no records- they went with the sale- and has been making Ome banjos far longer now, he really isn't the best source for Ode info; all he has is his memory to go on, and hundreds of banjos have passed through his hands since he made the last Colorado Ode.

The Baldwin company that bought the Ode banjo works went bankrupt, came back, and went bankrupt again. Baldwin is now a much different company than it was then, and is now owned by Gibson. Around the time Baldwin bought Ode, it also bought Burns, a British electric guitar company, Gretsch, a guitar/banjo/drum company, and several other companies that made music amplifiers, kekyboards, etc.

It is very unsure as to how Baldwin's branch companies connected to Baldwin. The Baldwin company's initial strategy, and the reason they branched out from making only pianos, was to turn Baldwin Piano stores into full line music stores. In the late 60's, when all this began,stringed instruments, especially the guitar, were taking over. Baldwin wanted to offer kids something besides pianos.

The plan didn't work. Piano salespeople knew nothing about stringed instruments, and piano stores weren't the places thought of where quality stringed instruments were sold. Eventually, Baldwin offered it's stringed instruments to non-Baldwin music stores, that often carried no pianos at all.

The Gretsch Division got the job of selling the banjos, but past the sales operation, it's very uncertain just how much Gretsch was involved with the actual banjo construction. There were 2 factories in Arkansas, and one burned down twice, probably destroying most of the records. I haven't been able to gather any first-hand info as to what the second factory actually produced, or whether Gretsch was involved in any way with it. During that period, Baldwin was a Defense Dept. subcontractor, and made electronics and parts used by the military during the Viet Nam war.

The only certain thing is the Ode name was bonded to Gretsch through sales, and this was reinforced with the use of the Gretsch name on the banjo cases. This name on the case doesn't mean Gretsch actually made the banjos or the cases. A current example is Morgan Monroe, who doesn't make the banjos they sell, or the cases, but each case has the company name on it.

When the Baldwin parent company went bankrupt, all of the other companies it owned went down with itl. Eventually, Fred Gretsch Jr., a member of the founder's family, bought the name and rights to the Gretschproducts back. In 2001, he sold the company to Fender. To further confuse things, Gretsch owned the Bacon banjo company long before it was bought by Baldwin. Fred Jr. did try to revive the Bacons- there is an existing sales flyer- but no mention of Ode under Fred Jr.'s ownership. As far as I know, no examples of the revived Bacon actually exist. It's very possible that Fred Jr. used an old picture on the flyer.

So- these days, Gibson owns Baldwin and Fender owns Gretsch. The current Baldwin Division only makes pianos and the name is also used on products Gibson sells to dept. stores and the like.

Who owns the rights to the Ode name is very foggy. I'm sure who owns what could be uncovered, but it would probably require a legal team and a lot of money to figure it out. An attempt to clear it up may stir up a hornet's nest, too, if you start to think about the repercussions. The question of who owns the rights to the Burns name, and at about a dozen others is also lost.

Once Baldwin bought Ode, things got complicated, and stays complicated today.
regards,
Stanger

The pen is mightier than the pigs.

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Edited by - stanger on 05/29/2008 06:22:22

Gronk - Posted - 05/29/2008:  15:22:35

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I have a 1980 Model C (10-80-43). A couple of years ago I bought a facimilie ring from Mr. Fawley via eBay. Recently a Hangout member posted an ad requesting Ode parts and declined my offer to sell him this ring saying he preferred original equipment. So I decided to swap it into my banjo just to see the results and it fits and sounds fine indeed. Upon examination of my original tone ring I found it to be of a non-copper alloy. It is a silver color and vigorous scraping did not expose any of the easily seen copper color one finds on a ring below the plating.It does not attract a magnet and I haven't weighed it. It may well have been changed out by a previous owner (I've had it for five years). The metal is cut accurately for the screw to enter the coordinator rod at the tailpiece end and the rim hasn't been altered to accept its fit. So I will ask owners of late issue Odes: have any of you examined the metal content of your rings?

Thank you Joel Sweeney.