rudy - Posted - 05/10/2013:  12:37:12

Hi All,

Here’s a post with a bit of a different twist than the usual “What strings should I use?” topic, as it encompasses a bit of philosophy combined with a bit of introspection, and possibly a dash of inspiration.

I’m somewhat of a backyard astronomy buff, so I had a bit of an epiphany recently as to the correlation between the notes produced when a new instrument is sounded for the first time “in the white”, and the similarity to the concept of “First Light”; the term used when a newly constructed telescope is used for it’s first astronomical observation.  A well-known astronomical object is often selected for a first viewing and is normally of little practical value before the constituent telescope elements are fine tuned for optimum efficiency, but still generates great excitement for the designers and builders of the telescope.

It seems to me that we could certainly call those first few notes produced from a newly constructed musical instrument in the same vernacular, and I would prefer the poetic “First Light” to a more pedestrian term such as “in the white”.  Like the newly assembled telescope, the newly assembled banjo might need small revisions to details such as strings, bridge, tailpiece, and other assorted details before breaking the bottle of Champagne across the bow, but “First Light” from a newly assembled banjo still elicits the same pride and joy as the first view from the telescope most likely brings its maker; I know it’s usually true in my case.

There is something truly special about making music from an instrument crafted from your own hand, and it’s something I wish that everyone could experience.  It might not be high on the bucket list for all players, but I’m betting folks that read this section of the forum are aligned with my thinking.

With that in mind, I’m presenting a new banjo in a “First Light” perspective.  This is something I’ve never seen done before, so it might prove interesting for some.  The instrument shown has just been strung up “in the white” for the first time to verify everything fits and works as it is supposed to.  I grabbed some previously-used test strings and a new fourth string to complete the partial set, stuck a spare 3/4” bridge on that would produce the desired string height without further head tensioning or doing a neck adjustment, and tuned a few times until the tuning settled in a bit.  No additional head tensioning or tailpiece adjustment were done, those are things that will be attended to after final assembly.

First Light is comprised of a few quick turns around a few tunes, but I usually play the banjo for a few days like this and note any final changes necessary before disassembling the instrument for sanding and finish application.

First Light, do notice harmonics and fretted notes for strings 1 through 4 thrown in at the end of the piece to demonstrate bridge intonation.  A compensated bridge just isn't necessary for me.

Edited by - rudy on 05/10/2013 12:42:59

Alex Z - Posted - 05/10/2013:  12:56:02

Rudy, that instrument has life!

The notes and style you played fit perfectly into "First Light."

Thanks.

Dan Drabek - Posted - 05/10/2013:  13:26:24

The first time a new instrument sings is always a special moment. Thanks for sharing it. 

I really like your inlay designs on this banjo. Very tasty. 

My first astronomical telescope was a 6" newtonian I built and ground the mirror for in my basement one winter almost 40 years ago. First light with a telescope you make yourself is just as exciting as first light with a banjo. Not many people grind their own optics these days. At least amateur banjo making is still alive and well.

DD

PeterJ - Posted - 05/10/2013:  13:32:18

Wonderful, Randy -- I enjoy reading about your thought process, and I really loved hearing your playing. The banjo sounds great already.

PJJ

BNJOMAKR - Posted - 05/10/2013:  14:12:05

quote:

---

Originally posted by rudy

 

There is something truly special about making music from an instrument crafted from your own hand, and it’s something I wish that everyone could experience.  It might not be high on the bucket list for all players, but I’m betting folks that read this section of the forum are aligned with my thinking.

 

---

I'm aligned with your thinking, Rudy....

Nice pick'n on a beautiful banjo!  

Dave1climber - Posted - 05/10/2013:  20:08:01

Rudy

Thanks for sharing this special moment.  That banjo sounds very good right now, please re post sound files after final assembly, and adjusting.

Lyndon Smith - Posted - 05/11/2013:  00:55:57

Rudy: Is that the fabled Workingperson's 11 Banjo? It sure looks nice...

Edited by - Lyndon Smith on 05/11/2013 01:03:06

rudy - Posted - 05/11/2013:  04:14:45

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan Drabek

 

The first time a new instrument sings is always a special moment. Thanks for sharing it. 

I really like your inlay designs on this banjo. Very tasty. 

My first astronomical telescope was a 6" newtonian I built and ground the mirror for in my basement one winter almost 40 years ago. First light with a telescope you make yourself is just as exciting as first light with a banjo. Not many people grind their own optics these days. At least amateur banjo making is still alive and well.

DD

---

Thanks, Dan.

I'm not a huge fan of excessive inlay so I kept the bling purposefully at a low level.  I do like to delineate the 12th a bit, so I used the opportunity as a way of shooting all the photos to show the entire process of adding a custom designed and engraved inlay if a builder should choose to do that.

Backyard astronomers are still rabid about grinding.  We've got several folks up here that roll their own, one of the members of the local group (no pun intended, you may be the only person to understand that as a pun...) has had his designs published in Sky and Telescope.  The concept of first light was a topic of conversation with some of them when I went out for the transit of Venus last year.  There were perhaps 40 scopes set up in projection mode and one of the larger scopes projected a really nice image about 10" in diameter.  The Venus transit made great viewing, but even more entertaining was to see a large body jet "transiting" the face of the sun.  It was taking off from an airport about 50 miles away that happened to be in the line of sight.

rudy - Posted - 05/11/2013:  04:24:21

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lyndon Smith

 

Rudy: Is that the fabled Workingperson's 11 Banjo? It sure looks nice...

---

Hi Lyndon, It is indeed the Workingperson's 11.

If a person were constructing a banjo the "First Light" moment might indeed be the point at which the building phase would be over and the banjo considered as being in it's final form.  This one will still get a custom arm rest and recessed gold strap-loc buttons added before it's in its completed form.  Those of course take a bit more time in the shop as the photo documentation slows things up a bit.  I'm also going to shoot the entire process of forming bridge blank stock and the making of the bridge.  I'm pretty close to done though...

mike gregory - Posted - 05/11/2013:  14:27:25

I like the term "First Light".

My first reaction, upon hearing one of my cobbled-up concoctions, is more along the lines of

"Well, I'll be gosh-danged! It actually WORKS!!!

Your craftsmanship is impressive, since I admire most those qualities in others which I myself so greatly lack:.

The drive to pay attention to details, and demand of oneself a product as close to perfection as possible.

rudy - Posted - 05/12/2013:  04:19:26

Hi Mike,

Thanks, I appreciate the comments.  The Squared El is no small feat of engineering and it's great that you freely encourage folks of a lesser aptitude to experience the joys of saying "Well, I'll be gosh danged! It actually WORKS!" for themselves.

Dan Drabek - Posted - 05/12/2013:  04:56:36

Mike is a bit like the John Dobson of banjo building.

DD

Todd Treadway - Posted - 05/12/2013:  07:02:03

Love the unique playing style, and it's a beautiful tune. Is it original?

rudy - Posted - 05/12/2013:  09:40:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by Todd Treadway

Love the unique playing style, and it's a beautiful tune. Is it original?

---

Hi Todd,

It's just noodling for testing out the new jo, so it's not refined into an actual new tune at present.  I do a lot of my own self-penned tunes, but this one doesn't have that distinction.

I'm not sure exactly what style I play.  Chip Arnold told me one time what he thought it was closest to, but I don't remember.  At one time I felt bad about not concentrating on playing strict "clawhammer style", but I decided playing whatever I settled into wasn't so bad after playing a tune for my best banjo buddy who plays totally awesome clawhammer.  He said that some of my tunes couldn't be played in true clawhammer style, so I no longer felt bad about doing my own thing.  There are several of my self-penned tunes in my Hangout music section, though.

Edited by - rudy on 05/12/2013 09:46:43

rudy - Posted - 05/12/2013:  09:59:42

Note:

Anyone who's reading along should check out Todd's "Cigar Box Banjo" CD at CDbaby.  Todd pens seriously good tunes!  I'm totally enamored with "Prairie Rain" from the CD personally.

cdbaby.com/cd/toddtreadway

Edited by - rudy on 05/12/2013 10:01:33

Richard Brown - Posted - 05/12/2013:  10:22:34

Randy, Nice video, great playing and I love that little banjo!

R.L.Brown

Ken LeVan - Posted - 05/12/2013:  15:47:14

That's fabulous!

What a great video and banjo. Thanks so much for posting it.

Ken

Todd Treadway - Posted - 05/12/2013:  20:28:20

Appreciate the comment, Randy... You call this "noodling", but I'd say it's a terrific tune as is, and the banjo just sounds so sweet on it. Hey, it's nice to see your face instead of just your hands for a change!

I know just what you mean about "first light", too. Something about that first time you string it up and give it a trial run. In my case, it's not always such a positive experience, though!

mike gregory - Posted - 05/13/2013:  07:33:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan Drabek

 

Mike is a bit like the John Dobson of banjo building.

DD

---

 Dobson is a bit more advanced.

Ron C - Posted - 05/13/2013:  08:26:50

Very nice work!

I started with a used Edmund's 4" Newtonian, rebuilt it and sold it off to buy a 6" Newtonian. Cleaned it up and sold it. Used that money to buy 6" F4 and 8" F7 mirrors and built the scopes and mounts. Sold those to buy a 10" that I rebuilt and sold to get a 13.1 Coulter Dobsonian. Bought a 17" mirror and built a Dobsonian.

Now, I can't stay up late enough to do observing, so I sold the 17" Dobbie and just practice my banjo. I do still have a very nice 8" Celestron from the early 1990s.

Ron

Nuts - Posted - 05/13/2013:  08:42:53

Your first light shines brightly Randy! Beautiful build with a lovely voice...

Dan Drabek - Posted - 05/13/2013:  14:53:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by mike gregory

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan Drabek

 

Mike is a bit like the John Dobson of banjo building.

DD

---

 Dobson is a bit more advanced.

Mike, I wasn't very clear. I wasn't referring to Dobson the banjo maker, I was referring to John Dobson the telescope maker. Look up "John Dobson and Sidewalk Astronomers."

Rudy was probably the only one who caught it.

DD 

Ken LeVan - Posted - 05/13/2013:  15:05:58

Randy,

Do you always string them up and play them "in the white"?

It's a really good idea. My "first light" is with a mason's line to check the alignment, and it has no sound, so isn't worth celebrating.

I continue to like the video a lot - great playing, too.

Ken

rudy - Posted - 05/13/2013:  17:30:33

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken LeVan

 

Randy,

Do you always string them up and play them "in the white"?

It's a really good idea. My "first light" is with a mason's line to check the alignment, and it has no sound, so isn't worth celebrating.

I continue to like the video a lot - great playing, too.

Ken

---

Hi Ken, thanks for the complements, they mean so much to me!

Yes, I always make time for a "first light" moment.  ANY time you get a banjo to this stage it's worthy of celebration, even if it's just to verify the center line of the neck.  I find it's not much more work to throw a set of strings on as opposed to checking the neck centerline.  If it gives me an excuse to while away an hour or two making noise then so be it!

If I rolled a lot of banjos of an assembly line it would be a different case, but this stage is just too much fun for me to pass up.  It actually ends up being several things; verification of neck heel to rim fit, bridge positioning, any anomalies with the frets (rare), string break angles, string paths to tuning posts, any need for additional nut slot work (not and issue on the zero fret setup here...), all of the rim details such as tension band clearances, etc. and most importantly, the sound (and the fun).

I'm still thrilled with playing an instrument for the very first time.  It's a bit like watching the birth of a child; each one is unique and satisfying it their own particular and unique way.  Even without all of the things involved in an actual setup I find that the tone produced out of the starting gate is going to be pretty indicative as to the final sound of an instrument.

I can make money more easily, I can do other forms of woodworking, I can entertain the problem-solving gene in other assorted ways.  Making music on something that started as an assemblage of raw materials is one of the most satisfying endeavors a person can undertake.  This is the entire reason why we like building instruments!

The forum here is a great way to commune the love of instrument construction with my fellow builders, my thanks to all!

Todd Treadway - Posted - 05/13/2013:  17:43:44

Amen!

Ken LeVan - Posted - 05/13/2013:  17:51:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by rudy

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken LeVan

 

Randy,

Do you always string them up and play them "in the white"?

It's a really good idea. My "first light" is with a mason's line to check the alignment, and it has no sound, so isn't worth celebrating.

I continue to like the video a lot - great playing, too.

Ken

---

Hi Ken, thanks for the complements, they mean so much to me!

Yes, I always make time for a "first light" moment.  ANY time you get a banjo to this stage it's worthy of celebration, even if it's just to verify the center line of the neck.  I find it's not much more work to throw a set of strings on as opposed to checking the neck centerline.  If it gives me an excuse to while away an hour or two making noise then so be it!

If I rolled a lot of banjos of an assembly line it would be a different case, but this stage is just too much fun for me to pass up.  It actually ends up being several things; verification of neck heel to rim fit, bridge positioning, any anomalies with the frets (rare), string break angles, string paths to tuning posts, any need for additional nut slot work (not and issue on the zero fret setup here...), all of the rim details such as tension band clearances, etc. and most importantly, the sound (and the fun).

I'm still thrilled with playing an instrument for the very first time.  It's a bit like watching the birth of a child; each one is unique and satisfying it their own particular and unique way.  Even without all of the things involved in an actual setup I find that the tone produced out of the starting gate is going to be pretty indicative as to the final sound of an instrument.

I can make money more easily, I can do other forms of woodworking, I can entertain the problem-solving gene in other assorted ways.  Making music on something that started as an assemblage of raw materials is one of the most satisfying endeavors a person can undertake.  This is the entire reason why we like building instruments!

The forum here is a great way to commune the love of instrument construction with my fellow builders, my thanks to all!

 

---

A new instrument is like the birth of a child - well said. I think you are hitting on an important thing here - there are a number of us who really do this because we love the instrument and the process of building it.

Many of us, as you say, could make more money (if that was our motivation), using our woodworking skills in other more commercial ways, yet we design and build banjos.

I think of it as art rather than anything else.

Thanks for all your good work, and for sharing it with us.

Playin the radio - Posted - 05/13/2013:  18:50:58

It's the 'I'm amazed it all came together and it works'. And it's always magical when it happens regardless of what it is. Restoring a '28 Chev stove-bolt six is still one of my best moments when that engine barked to life 40 some years ago. Thanks for sharing Randy.

rudy - Posted - 05/13/2013:  19:31:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by mike gregory

 quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan Drabek

 

Mike is a bit like the John Dobson of banjo building.

DD

---

 Dobson is a bit more advanced.

---

More advanced than this guy?

mike gregory - Posted - 05/14/2013:  16:01:00

Rudy, I do NOT remember posing for that picture.

Perhaps I had been sampling the beverages that day.

rudy - Posted - 05/14/2013:  17:16:25

quote:

---

Originally posted by mike gregory

 

Rudy, I do NOT remember posing for that picture.

Perhaps I had been sampling the beverages that day.

---

The photo is listed as FRED Gregory... a distant (and I do mean distant...) cousin perhaps?

Ron C - Posted - 05/14/2013:  18:42:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by rudy

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by mike gregory

 quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan Drabek

 

Mike is a bit like the John Dobson of banjo building.

DD

---

 Dobson is a bit more advanced.

---

More advanced than this guy?

---

The very essence of Mr. Gregory has been missed:

Ron

rudy - Posted - 05/14/2013:  19:46:31

I don't care who ya are, that there's funny!

ellabrow - Posted - 05/14/2013:  23:24:24

Now that there banjos got sout to it! Thanks so much for sharing the moment with us, really special!

Elliot