schwimbo - Posted - 05/12/2012:  20:47:25

I'm happy for Dave Magram that his banjo sounds better to his ears set up the way he prefers (with no gap between the fingerboard and the stretcher band). Maybe some banjos react differently, but since 1967, I've had probably over 100 banjos apart (and back together) and the vast majority sounded better without the fingerboard touching the tension hoop (not disrespecting others' opinions, including Jim Mills'). Maybe there were exceptions now and then, but mostly I remember the positive results that the slight gap produced.

Aradobanjo - Posted - 05/12/2012:  21:34:29

Hello,

As for anything touching the Tension hoop, I went to a Fults tailpiece to reduce tailpiece coloring. I noticed on my new RB-12 that a small gap is there. My Gold Star GF-100W has a small gap. For me, having the tension hoop free of contact seems to reduce overtones. Yet, over tones are more metalic in nature. Would tends to dampen, not influence.

Sincerely,

Aradobanjo

HarleyQ - Posted - 05/12/2012:  21:50:57

...if my FB touches I sand it down. Then I know I have good contact between neck and pot. That is "one" of the most key points in set up, And why in the world would you want to make it harder to change a head??

pernicketylad - Posted - 05/13/2012:  05:31:48

The gap between the fretboard (well playing surface....there is no fretboard really) and the tension hoop in my old Hammig is about 10mm........................great sounding banjo. 

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 05/14/2012:  05:03:20

Again.... Bluegrass and old timey banjos are "two different creatures"... very little transferrs from one to the other...
If you tryed the tooth pick thing as an experiment, on a bluegrass banjo, you found very quickly that it does affect the sound..
Depending on original construction, (length, position of heel cut, etc).. large gaps and etc may/will/can position the bridge closer to the neck, nearer the center of the pot/head..this will change the sound.. (a desireable thing in old time, but not in Bluegrass banjos)

uncle.fogey - Posted - 05/14/2012:  05:14:44

quote:

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Originally posted by Kenneth Logsdon

Again.... Bluegrass and old timey banjos are "two different creatures"... very little transferrs from one to the other...

If you tryed the tooth pick thing as an experiment, on a bluegrass banjo, you found very quickly that it does affect the sound..

Depending on original construction, (length, position of heel cut, etc).. large gaps and etc may/will/can position the bridge closer to the neck, nearer the center of the pot/head..this will change the sound.. (a desireable thing in old time, but not in Bluegrass banjos)

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I'm not sure what is meant by an "old timey" banjo, but serious openback banjos such as tubaphones are not different creatures from bluegrass banjos at all - more similar than most people understand. They just don't have resonators. 

The relationship of the neck to the rim to the tension hoop should be no different in a properly set up openback banjo than it is in a properly set up "bluegrass" banjo.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 05/14/2012:  05:32:42

Guys,



"Should the fingerboard of a banjo touch/connect with the tension hoop?"

IMHO - being a well known "wizard" - in principle absolutely not!

A few banjos may by chance benefit from a close fit - but the vast majority may not. Absolutely not!

Polle

steve davis - Posted - 05/14/2012:  05:36:55

I don't wonder why.I just trust Jimmy Cox's vast experience in these matters.

banjoez - Posted - 05/14/2012:  06:27:15

quote:

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Originally posted by schwimbo

I've always noticed an increase in volume when I sand a little bit of the fingerboard away to produce a slight gap between the fingerboard and tension hoop (where there was previously no gap).

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Agreed. Banjos with a slight neck gap seem to resonate more freely. A tension hoop is meant to float over the head and ring/rim. It's not meant to bind against the neck. Why would you want to stress the neck connection any more than it is by introducing another stress point in addition to the lagged areas? It's like a tone ring fit too tight on the rim. Less vibration = less tone/volume.  Just my opinion.

Edited by - banjoez on 05/14/2012 06:31:16

uncle.fogey - Posted - 05/14/2012:  13:44:24

I keep posting stuff on different threads, so if I'm being redundant, I apologize.  I know there was a tread recently about "head crowns" and I brought up some of these points on that one.

(1) the neck ought to join the pot or rim in a "fixed" way, that cannot be altered by string tension. This "dimensional fix" is done by bolts, coordinator rods, or a dowel stick.  Call it the rim/neck connection - it ought to be very tight and unyielding.

If you can flex your neck up and down so that it makes or does not make contact with the tension hoop, there is something wrong with that rim/neck connection, and you have to address that.

(2) You have to be able to tighten or loosen the head without loosening the neck. If the end of the neck is pushing so hard against the tension hoop that it binds, there is something wrong.

(3) the tension hoop/ flesh hoop has to be able to move up and down COMPLETELY INDEPENDENTLY of the neck or rim. All this requires is a little gap, about the thickness of a credit card or less, but you MUST have some little gap.

Here's a diagram I hope will help, showing two popular constructions - a tubaphone, and an archtop Mastertone - archtops are tricky, and have their own "rules".

Here are a couple of photos, which I hope show this in a more realistic way:

The gap is critical.