Wes Lassiter - Posted - 04/15/2011:  14:47:44

The best investment I have ever made was the vintage five string I purchased from Jim Mills. I don't care what you say it is the best banjo i have ever had and I will buy another one just as soon as I get the cash.  Those five string conversions just have that something extra that you cannot buy in a conventional instrument. It is sad for the majority of the really good instruments are being bought up and hoarded by the wealthy. These instruments deserve to be treasured for the music they make and not treasured for someones portfolio or for bragging rights. The other sad truth is most of these collectors couldn't pick their way out of a wet paper bag. Do yourself a favor and go out and get you the banjo you deserve and if you feel it is a pre war get it now while there are a few tenors that can be converted. The original Flatheads well you might as well forget it or hope you win the lottery for they are all gone with the exception of a few unknown strays. These banjos need to be played and played a lot. if you know someone who is hoarding these nice instruments talk to them about selling them so someone can enjoy playing them. They do not deserve to sit in a closet or some display case. They need to be played and played a whole lot.

bobbybanjo - Posted - 04/15/2011:  15:00:47

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wes Lassiter

The best investment I have ever made was the vintage five string I purchased from Jim Mills. I don't care what you say it is the best banjo i have ever had and I will buy another one just as soon as I get the cash.  Those five string conversions just have that something extra that you cannot buy in a conventional instrument. It is sad for the majority of the really good instruments are being bought up and hoarded by the wealthy. These instruments deserve to be treasured for the music they make and not treasured for someones portfolio or for bragging rights. The other sad truth is most of these collectors couldn't pick their way out of a wet paper bag. Do yourself a favor and go out and get you the banjo you deserve and if you feel it is a pre war get it now while there are a few tenors that can be converted. The original Flatheads well you might as well forget it or hope you win the lottery for they are all gone with the exception of a few unknown strays. These banjos need to be played and played a lot. if you know someone who is hoarding these nice instruments talk to them about selling them so someone can enjoy playing them. They do not deserve to sit in a closet or some display case. They need to be played and played a whole lot.

---

The wealthy are buying these banjos because they are smart!  That's why they are wealthy!

We are now approaching the time when all of the legacy banjos will have been discovered and liquidated by the relatives whose hands they fell into.  When that happens you won't be seeing any more "Untouched" instruments appearing on eBay; we are already seeing many fewer during the last year or so than during, say, 2000, 2001, etc.  All the good stuff, the Granadas (which we rarely see anymore) the Style 5's (when was the last time you saw one of those on eBay?) are all disappearing.  Snooze or Lose!

NYCJazz - Posted - 04/15/2011:  15:05:59

I fully support collectors keeping instruments the way they came out of the factory.

Using a tenor as a supply of parts so you can pretend you have a vintage instrument does no one any good except the guy that builds the copy neck.

snakeherd - Posted - 04/15/2011:  15:19:30

There are plenty of quality new and used banjos that are not pre-war collectibles that sound great and will perform fine for serious musicians. Collectible items are for those who can afford to collect, and the rest of us can buy anything else that we can afford.

I'm not feeling sorry for myself or anyone else that they can't afford one of these when there are good banjos available for cheaper than ever (considering inflation). I've seen pro players post on this forum that their $1000 Recording King or Gold Star works fine for them on stage.

(If I bought a banjo that suited my skill level it would be broken Rover.)

BanjoLink - Posted - 04/15/2011:  15:24:51

Quote:  "It is sad for the majority of the really good instruments are being bought up and hoarded by the wealthy. These instruments deserve to be treasured for the music they make and not treasured for someones portfolio or for bragging rights. The other sad truth is most of these collectors couldn't pick their way out of a wet paper bag. "

Where are you getting this information?

I'm extremely jealous of people that have grandchildren  -  not people that have more money or more pre-war banjos than me!

wfawley - Posted - 04/15/2011:  15:28:41

I wonder if I'd be a wealthy collector if I had a dollar for every vintage collectible banjo ruined by the 4 string crowd by replating, refinishing, adding rhinestones... and worse. I tend to think I would be able to buy myself a flathead....probably even an original 5 string flathead. I'm doing some conservation work on 3 Bacon tenor necks that came from a 4 stringer. They've all been butchered to one extent or another. I'm the first 5 string guy to own them. I'm going to restore them so people can buy them and pretend they're playing an old banjo.

Wyatt

jimh269b - Posted - 04/15/2011:  15:40:01

wes it is a money issue,not like you and i we play ours those who buys them dont ok,but shoot they got the cash to do it,so thats the real issue

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 04/15/2011:  15:46:07

I am saying that many of these instruments need playing. I knew this would hit a tender point with some and to all would be trolls, I realize this is a subject that could develop into a useless forum. I feel the instruments need exposure to those who can enjoy them for what they are. This is not a debate about banjos made today and there are some fine banjos. Vintage instruments just happen to be precious for the tone they produce is one of a kind. I realize some feel different but that is not the point. The instruments need to be played heard and where possible recorded. It is Ok to own them hell if I had the money, i would own 100 of them. I also would make them available to those who wanted to play them and enjoy. No need to get excited here. I agree Jim money is the central issue.

Edited by - Wes Lassiter on 04/15/2011 15:50:13

wfawley - Posted - 04/15/2011:  15:48:52

There's a daily influx of old banjos coming onto the market as the children of the dixieland generation inherit their parents' instruments. These heirs frequently don't have much of an affinity for them and they end up on the market. The supply isn't drying up, it's constantly being replenished.

Wyatt

Edited by - wfawley on 04/15/2011 15:49:32

gjknotek - Posted - 04/15/2011:  15:49:19

The related question for some of us, who just want to spend our money well on a good banjo we can play, what are the new banjos being made today that will be the heirlooms for our grandchildren tomorrow?

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 04/15/2011:  15:52:23

That is a great point but the heirlooms of today are just that and a lot of folks to day are going to miss the enjoyment of these grand old banjos whether they are a bucket of tenor parts or not.

John Steele - Posted - 04/15/2011:  15:57:16

>>>It is sad for the majority of the really good instruments are being bought up and hoarded by the wealthy.

>>>These instruments deserve to be treasured for the music they make and not treasured for someones portfolio or for bragging rights.

What are you saying ?

Wealthy people can't/don't play, just brag ?  Poor people don't hoard ?  A good instrument is better hoarded by a poor man who can't play than used by a wealthy man who can ?

If someone hadn't "hoarded" that prewar mastertone up 'till now, would there be anything left of it for anyone to play, rich or poor ?

Hmmm...

-John

banjotef - Posted - 04/15/2011:  16:10:42

  I once saw a photo of a "banjo museum",  I think it's sponsored by Gibson.   Sad to see all those old banjos in display cases.    They really do need to be played..

banjocollector - Posted - 04/15/2011:  16:13:01

---

I think people have the right to collect whatever they wish, be it bottle tops, banjos, cars or paintings.

When you get your second 'investment' banjo, you too will be starting a collection!

There are many BHO members that take great pride and care of their banjos for the next generation of players and collectors.

Derek

banjocollector.com

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 04/15/2011:  16:18:46

It seems to me that there re plenty of those instruments that have had the fire played out of them that are doing just fine today. Lets see, Earls Granada, JD's RB 75, Jim Mills RB 75 the list goes on. My TB II was converted in 1986 and had the crap played out of it. It seems to me I will be playing this banjo for at least another 30 years. I don't think longevity is the question, the ability to have access to them need more awareness. The wealthy are the only ones who can afford them so yes for the most part if there is hoarding to be done well it is done by the wealthy. Even when the banjos were new years ago mainly only wealthy could afford them for in relative terms they were expensive then. In those days they were put under beds by those who didn't play them and played by those who could wealthy or not. The point is there are so few of them. Guitars. mandolins banjos, and fiddles that in todays world those who can afford them hold the cards. From what I can see they are not being played much, just admired for what they are. Oh I'm sorry Steve martin seems to be playing his quite a bit. Now there is a wealthy person that can play. Unfortunately say what you want most of the instruments in this class are hoarded by those who own them(most of them very wealthy) and access to them is very limeted.. They need picking on as well as admiration. Two recordings that feature theses instruments are "Hide Head Blues" Jim Mills and Tone Poems, Tony Rice and David Grisman. There are not many recent recordings using these fine instruments for most of the instruments are sitting in closets or some hallowed hall in a display case. Where is the music from them? Gone? That is the question.

Barnet in SoCal - Posted - 04/15/2011:  16:21:55

Hi Wes,

Sure would love to have a sound clip of your banjo posted... these great banjos not only need to be played, they need to be heard!  

Did you go to the Mills workshop again, just for old time's sake? Man, I would have if I didn't live on the left coast.

Barnet

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 04/15/2011:  16:32:11

No, I went just to play those banjos again. I could not get enough. It is so cool that Jim makes them available to us during the workshop. I really enjoyed playing all those pre war flat heads they just make me croon with the sound they produce. I honestly went on a journey this winter trying to find a conventional banjo that matched up. I played em all and not one even got near (at least in my Opinion) the sound, I have grown to love. I will put a clip up here soon for you. Hope you are well and thank you for all you do to keep the awarness of these fine old banjos in the public eye. The bar b que was almost worth going for on its own.

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 04/15/2011:  16:36:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjocollector

---

I think people have the right to collect whatever they wish, be it bottle tops, banjos, cars or

paintings.

When

you get your second 'investment' banjo, you too will be starting a collection!

There are many BHO members that take great pride and care of their banjos for the next generation of players and

 

collectors.

Derek

banjocollector.com

 

 

 As I collect them, i will also make sure that they are available to be played and enjoyed to those who want to experience pre war banjos. I can only hope that I will own a few so that many can enjoy them. Those banjos certainly won't be following me in my grave.

 

 

 

 

 

---

 

---

dorse - Posted - 04/15/2011:  16:43:03

Here's what Gruhn had to say about the hoarding argument: gruhn.com/newsletter/vintagemkt3.html

Slingerland - Posted - 04/15/2011:  17:04:11

That's a good article by Gruhn.

Imagine if all the classic car people started driving their vehicles everyday. Imagine taking them out in the snow, rain and with other drivers. If that's the case, 50 years from now we don't have that many original classic cars for use to enjoy as a society (we don't have that many now either).

If there were never any collectors, we would know very little about the instruments. A lot of musicians could care nuiances of instrument making. A lot of collectors could care less about how function the instrument is.

So what if I collector can't play? Can't you enjoy a painting with being able to paint? Can't you enjoy a movie with being able to act? 

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 04/15/2011:  17:18:44

I think Gruhn's take is right on for yes the debate continues about the collector and his role. Granted there are instruments that are of such value and historical significance that the "custodian" of those rare pieces more likely should be a museum or someone who can share the instruments in a meaningful way. The instruments should still be played for if they had a spirit or soul as Gruen eludes to then I would imagine that soul is feeling really worthless sitting in a display case or in a case in some climate controlled vault. The point I would like to make her if you are one of these folks who are so fortunate to own one of these fine instruments let others who do not own what you have experience the amazing tone and soul that these instruments have. If they cannot be enjoyed for that why keep them? At least try to provide access to others on a regular basis to play these instruments. Lend them out for recording sessions, jam sessions or gigs so others can enjoy them. So what if there might be the possibility of a scratch. The tone that is enjoyed is far more valuable than a fricking scratch. I can tell you being able to experience some of these instruments first hand makes me want to play them more and when folks hear them they are even more amazed. They need tonal sharing and used for the intention they were built for, not to be hoarded and gawked at like some stuffed animal.

Slingerland - Posted - 04/15/2011:  17:32:15

Hi Wes---I'll PM you my address so you can send me a few banjos for me for to enjoy. 

bobbybanjo - Posted - 04/15/2011:  17:49:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wes Lassiter

Granted there are instruments that are of such value and historical significance that the "custodian" of those rare pieces more likely should be a museum or someone who can share the instruments in a meaningful way. The instruments should still be played for if they had a spirit or soul as Gruen eludes to then I would imagine that soul is feeling really worthless sitting in a display case or in a case in some climate controlled vault. The point I would like to make her if you are one of these folks who are so fortunate to own one of these fine instruments let others who do not own what you have experience the amazing tone and soul that these instruments have. If they cannot be enjoyed for that why keep them? At least try to provide access to others on a regular basis to play these instruments. Lend them out for recording sessions, jam sessions or gigs so others can enjoy them. So what if there might be the possibility of a scratch. The tone that is enjoyed is far more valuable than a fricking scratch. I can tell you being able to experience some of these instruments first hand makes me want to play them more and when folks hear them they are even more amazed. They need tonal sharing and used for the intention they were built for, not to be hoarded and gawked at like some stuffed animal.

---

There is no reason why an instrument should be in a museum or shared in a "meaningful" way.  He who owns the instrument gets to do whatever he wants with his property. 

And this whole thing about an instrument having a "Soul or Spirit" is senseless fantasy: "I would imagine that soul is feeling really worthless sitting in a display case..." is just psychobabble. 

Oh, another thing:  Leave my 1934 Granada Flathead out for a jam session or gig so others can enjoy it, spill drinks on it, bump it up against the mike stand, etc. because "The tone that is enjoyed is far more valuable than a frickin scratch". 

Is there a meth lab around here somewhere?

Edited by - bobbybanjo on 04/15/2011 17:50:46

NYCJazz - Posted - 04/15/2011:  17:53:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by wfawley

I wonder if I'd be a wealthy collector if I had a dollar for every vintage collectible banjo ruined by the 4 string crowd by replating, refinishing, adding rhinestones... and worse. I tend to think I would be able to buy myself a flathead....probably even an original 5 string flathead. I'm doing some conservation work on 3 Bacon tenor necks that came from a 4 stringer. They've all been butchered to one extent or another. I'm the first 5 string guy to own them. I'm going to restore them so people can buy them and pretend they're playing an old banjo.

Wyatt

---

Bob Gaddis kept claiming this until I called him on it.

As "proof", he posted a picture of Don Stevison with a very ornate banjo.

I pointed out that his banjo was a custom, from scratch instrument from a well-known luthier. OOPS.

Remember... renecking is not restoration OR repair.

wfawley - Posted - 04/15/2011:  18:01:57

No, Nathan.... It's a living, and I enjoy what I do and my customers enjoy pretending. I stand by my statement that far more valuable instruments were butchered in shops of 4 string players, than have ever been harmed by responsible conversion to 5 string.

I am glad to hear somebody else argue against the "your stuff is my stuff" principal. This kind of thinking is not only errant...it's dangerous.

Hey, I know. How about I give you Buddy Wachter's email address, and you can let him know what a moron he is for having me build him both plectrum and 5 string necks for his flathead, gold sparkle style 6 tenor.

Wyatt

Edited by - wfawley on 04/15/2011 18:04:55

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 04/15/2011:  18:13:27

I guess the point is being missed here by the last three comments. At least I know if I were a sign post you all would argue with me as well. That is plain to see.

Hotrodtruck - Posted - 04/15/2011:  18:19:55

I think the smart ones are investing in cases of sardines and vienna sausages. Then, when things go to hades in a handbasket, they can trade five cans of them for a nice prewar banjo! Hehe...

Mike

plunka5 - Posted - 04/15/2011:  18:50:46

quote:

---

Originally posted by wfawley

No, Nathan.... It's a living, and I enjoy what I do and my customers enjoy pretending. I stand by my statement that far more valuable instruments were butchered in shops of 4 string players, than have ever been harmed by responsible conversion to 5 string.

I am glad to hear somebody else argue against the "your stuff is my stuff" principal. This kind of thinking is not only errant...it's dangerous.

Hey, I know. How about I give you Buddy Wachter's email address, and you can let him know what a moron he is for having me build him both plectrum and 5 string necks for his flathead, gold sparkle style 6 tenor.

Wyatt

---

Now...that right there is funny...I don't care what type banjo you play!

TR Dockery - Posted - 04/15/2011:  18:50:49

Hey, this forum is the Collector's Corner, not the Anti-Collector's Corner.  Take it outside!

Happy trails,

Randy in Germantown, TN

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 04/15/2011:  19:06:58

I agree the humor is really starting to set in. I am so sorry I got everyone so upset.  i just contend instruments should be played especially the collectable ones. I guess I am going back to count my beenie babies.

wfawley - Posted - 04/15/2011:  19:17:55

Wes...I think maybe I know what it is you're trying to say....or maybe I don't, so let me just speak for myself. I was, for a time, resentful that the price of pre-war Gibson banjos had passed by a person of my means. I finally decided that I can build an instrument that suits the needs of myself, and of an awful lot of other people, at a price that's a whole lot easier to swallow. I don't even look for pre-war Gibson banjos anymore. I'm "over it".

At no time did I ever think that my friend who lives 25 minutes from here and owns a flathead....owed me a weekend with it....anymore than he owes me a weekend with his pickup truck, or his woman. It's the "your stuff is my stuff" thinking that really escapes me. I like living where a collector can collect and has the free will to do with his collection as he sees fit. If you collect rare coins, ....should somebody resent the fact that you don't take them to the corner store and spend them just so others can see and enjoy them?

If you were a sign, Wes, ....I might interpret you as reading, .... Goolag, ...straight ahead. Hold your thumb 1/2" from your index finger.... that's how far confiscation of wealth is from redistribution of wealth, a concept which is rooted in the same kind of (dangerous) thinking. My stuff is my stuff... and I like it that way just fine. The next guy can do with his stuff as he sees fit. He don't owe me nuthin' where his personal possessions are concerned. It's a slippery slope that you propose we go down.... and I don't have any intention of, or interest in, going there.

I know we're not supposed to wax political...but it's more a question of philosophy from where I sit. I just disagree with the philosophy.

Wyatt

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 04/15/2011:  19:43:37

Well Wyatt ol buddy that is where we fork in the road. First off if I owned  lets say a 1930's something Granada in Mint condition worth a fortune and it was owned by Earl Scruggs and Bela Fleck at one time and was purchased by Donald trump and given to me as gift for being a great friend, I would be glad to lend it out to any of my friends to play. Philosophical yes, sad that mankind has become so greedy and untrustful even worse. The way I figure it is my friend that nothing I have or own is to valuable for my friends and those they trust not to trust them for sharing and trust is what the world is about. If they screw me so what, the world isn't going to come to an end nor I am I going to let it bother me for I would trust my friends and those they trust for that is all I have in this world. Without truth and trust among friends you have nothing. If my friend came back and said hey man your banjo got run over by a red neck in a truck would I be happy no of course not. Would I lend him another banjo. Yes I would. Think about it Wyatt. Who are your friends? Why do you play banjo? who do you play it for? yourself or your friends?

Sheldon - Posted - 04/15/2011:  19:45:17

They can buy whatever they want and can afford. If you can't afford a collectible (whatever that means) buy something you can afford.

It is a little tiresome to complain that: "That they can't play their way out of a paper bag."

So what. Be satisfied with what you can buy.

Sheldon

wfawley - Posted - 04/15/2011:  19:55:40

Wes....I didn't say I wouldn't lend a friend my banjo. It's the idea that some feel that I would be obligated to that I find disturbing. I'll bet a buck that my friend would lend me his banjo....if he got to accompany it... but neither he nor I feel as though he owes it to me. Yes, humanity has become far too obsessed with material goods. I still think that doing something because you want to do it, and doing it because somebody else believes you should be obligated to..that's the only place we part. Or maybe I really didn't grasp the original post.

Wyatt

dorse - Posted - 04/15/2011:  20:14:37

Here's something that's being done with some of the fine Italian Violins, which I think is a reasonable way to keep some of the the great instruments in use.  Check it out:  stradivarisociety.com/home.php

NYCJazz - Posted - 04/15/2011:  20:38:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by wfawley

No, Nathan.... It's a living, and I enjoy what I do and my customers enjoy pretending. I stand by my statement that far more valuable instruments were butchered in shops of 4 string players, than have ever been harmed by responsible conversion to 5 string.

I am glad to hear somebody else argue against the "your stuff is my stuff" principal. This kind of thinking is not only errant...it's dangerous.

Hey, I know. How about I give you Buddy Wachter's email address, and you can let him know what a moron he is for having me build him both plectrum and 5 string necks for his flathead, gold sparkle style 6 tenor.

Wyatt

---

You think that replating and gluing some rhinestones is more destructive than renecking and selling off the original neck? Not to mention maybe cutting the rim for a shiny new tone ring to justify the "Mastertone" block?

BTW I love how the 5-string crowd drop Buddy's name because he went to Banjothon! Wow! Someone who actually PLAYS tenor!

Flathead75 - Posted - 04/15/2011:  20:49:59

Wes, I know what you are saying, but I think the number of flathead Gibson's that are out there are mostly in the hands of players. I could make a huge list of pro's and great amateur's that most probably don't realize they own flatheads, RB, TB or PB. Also, at the Banjothon there are a great number of individuals that bought their banjo many years ago before the prices went so far out of reach, and most of these are players, and nowhere near rich. The cool thing is they bring them to the event and let others play and check them out. I think the number of collectors that actually can't play is a rather small group. I only know of one other guy that has a collection close to Mills' and I think he is quite a player from what I am told. Man I would love to go back that was one cool banjo day! I have play about 15 flatheads and most people are glad to let you try them out, and I'm glad because I doubt I'll ever be able to own one...I know one thing I don't have the 911 turbo Porsche picture on the fridge anymore,my dream is an RB-75!

Vapor - Posted - 04/15/2011:  20:59:59

This has been an entertaining topic.  I find it hard to conceive that anyone would let their beloved banjo go away with someone else, just so the other person can play it.  I do not and will not loan one, so they can do me a favor and tweak the tailpiece for their style, or put on some other strings they think are better as a favor.  Nor would I ask anyone to loan me their banjo to play.  Now I will swap banjos when playing with someone, and then we get to hear each others play.

Now go to a collector piece, and I can tell you that I would play it, but there is not a chance it would get loaned out.  It is mine, I earned it through hard work and sweat.  Steve Martin earned his through years of hard work.  I do not care how much money you have, if you can afford it, it is your right to buy what you want and not feel compelled to loan your property out.  Anyone can afford any of these collectors banjos if it is important enough for them to have.  They may have to sell a few things, but if you want it bad enough, you will find a way to own it, pure and simple.  I can afford a lot of banjos, but I am perfectly happy with the ones I have,  The grass is very green in my yard, and it is not greener in my neighors.  I have the perfect sound.

And in todays world, all of my banjos are "Pre-war".

bluemule_77 - Posted - 04/15/2011:  21:16:37

The wealthy are buying them... because they are expensive!  They are expensive because they are rare and coveted.  With bills to pay and mouths to feed and other priorities, Average Joe can't justify these instruments (and there are also not enough to go around to all those Joes who might want one).

People of meager means have no inherent right of access to things they cannot afford.  I'm very pleased to have scraped together sufficient money to own the second-hand Ome that I own.  It's my only banjo.  I have friends and acquaintances with some purty nice instrument collections, but I'm not covetous.  I'm glad they can do that.

Brian

f5loar - Posted - 04/15/2011:  21:19:27

Flathead75 is right.  I too know of many vintage collectors that can pick just fine.  They may not do it out in public but they can pick.  I do know a few that can't but they are not so stuck up that you can't approach them for a few moments with their fab collection.   Most collectors don't mind sharing provided you do it while they look over your shoulder for obvious reasons.

What Gruhn missed in his article is the 1000's of great vintage instruments that are kept for a lifetime and then through their estate donated to the charity of their choice only to never be seen again.  I have been in the humidity controled, not open to the public, vault at the CMHF.  There I found millions of dollars worth of the finest vintage Gibsons and Martins donated through various estates.  These will never be displayed for the public to see and enjoy.  Not enough room to display what they have in that huge vault.  I know of a local bluegrasser in his 80's that has already given his Lloyd Loar F5 to the IBMA Museum only he gets to keep it until he dies and then it bypasses his estate saving on the death taxes which is the reason many donate to museums in the first place.  It's not the wealthy collectors I have a problem with but I do have a problem with the 1000's of guys who claim they have an all original prewar flathead. NOT!  

otd86866 - Posted - 04/15/2011:  21:20:06

My PW Gibson was handed down to me when my father passed away.  I could no more afford to buy it than I could afford to buy a 747 or any large ticket item. I do play it some but I am not a great banjo player. I also feel that it was built to be played, heard and enjoyed. I let other players pick on it quite often and we both can enjoy it. I would not like the thought of mine ending up in a glass case in some museum somewhere and not played. There are several members on the hangout that have played mine and I am sure there will be many more in the future. To me, the real enjoyment of owning a PW is sharing it with other pickers, great or not, that want to experience one. Just my thoughts --

wfawley - Posted - 04/15/2011:  21:22:12

Heck, Nathan..... Name one 4 string guy that picks a Gibson as his first axe, Most of the guys are just not enamored with them. I think you resent the prices being driven higher by an avid interest in the old tenors by the 5 string community.

I didn't know Buddy went to Banjothon. I wouldn't know ... .I didn't go either.

One of these days grasshopper, when you try to snatch that cheeseburger from my wife's hand, I'll turn her loose on you and you'll be able to come back here and tell everybody what it looks like behind the wood shed.

Wyatt

banjodr - Posted - 04/15/2011:  22:11:43

Butter please! and some salt where's Greg?

Banjolution - Posted - 04/15/2011:  23:40:07

"Heck, Nathan..... Name one 4 string guy that picks a Gibson as his first axe, Most of the guys are just not enamored with them. I think you resent the prices being driven higher by an avid interest in the old tenors by the 5 string community."

​As far as "Old Time" Banjo's go... Are there really that many Tenor players out there that want an old Vega to play. I must see 20 Little Wonders,and 10 Tubaphone's a month sell on Ebay. Far less White Laydie's. Im talking the average one's,not fancy.   The point  is most of those Banjo's are being converted. If there just are not that many Tenor Banjo players who want those instruments at least someone really cares about them. Well, the pot's at least.:-)   

 I just aquired  one of Wyatts conversions. For me it is my dream Banjo. No it is not a complete original. Could I afford a complete original. Heck no. I could barley afford this one! Im just trying to say I see no point in attacking  a guy like Wyatt on a public forum when he is providing a much desired service to the community. Sorry this has nothing to do with Wes' original post. I  dont even want to go there. :-)

Pete13 - Posted - 04/16/2011:  03:04:55

 I really don't follow any of this logic. The wealthy don't make their money collecting old banjo's. If they did, they wouldn't be wealthy, as a banjo, and I don't care who made it, is a pretty poor short term investment, and at best, a mediocre long term investment. I've never considered collecting anything, be it banjos, old cars, or any collectible manufactured product to be a decent investment, only an expensive hobby. From what I understand just from reading the comments on this forum lately about the average selling price of some pretty nice banjo's, I'd say they prove my point.

 Now collectors, acquiring banjo's because they like banjo's, that's another matter. If they happen to be wealthy, fine by me. It's their money and they can spend it any way they choose. I really don't see how money, ( or the lack of it ), affects one's ability to play the instrument.

I'm sure someone, probably several people, will explain to me how a 'conversion' banjo missing a lot of it's original parts, is collectible. To me, it'd be about as valuable as an original steel bodied '32 Ford butchered into a hot rod with a Chevy engine and an automatic transmission would be, compared to one that's all original, about 10 cents on the dollar.

rudykizuty - Posted - 04/16/2011:  03:05:53

All I can say is if I trusted a friend well enough to lend a banjo of mine and they let it get run over by a truck....I would no longer be able to consider them trustworthy or a friend.  

Pete13 - Posted - 04/16/2011:  03:52:17

No kiddin. I once let a friend of mine play a pretty nice ( although inexpensive ) acoustic guitar that I owned, and within 15 minutes he'd managed to buckle rash it, and bump it into several pieces of furniture and the wall, all in my presence.  I learned my lesson then and there about borrowing out instruments, even cheap ones. Friends don't ask friends to borrow their instruments.

rudykizuty - Posted - 04/16/2011:  04:00:55

Pete, I had a similar experience with an Ibanez electric bass that I had years back. Lent it to a friend and a week later it came back with enough crud on it what would have taken me 20 years of playing without cleaning. It was unbelievable how dirty he managed to get the thing in just a week. It was to the point of being outright amazing. 

= Anthony =

Edited by - rudykizuty on 04/16/2011 04:01:23

Robxx - Posted - 04/16/2011:  04:21:44

I really don't see the point in this particular discussion. It seems to me to be tinged with a little bit of envy.  Yes It does seem to be unfair that the wealthy can buy what they want, but for heavens sake if these people have the money, why shouldn't they ?

I can tell you, if I had the money, I would certainly buy whatever I wanted, and if I could buy one of the top Gibson PW tenors I would, and I'd have it converted.  I would however keep the original parts of course, because I'm a great believer in returning things to the way they were if necessary.

As Wyatt has said Gibson tenors don't seem to be in great demand as tenors. Irish players prefer TuBaPhones and Clifford Essex Paragons, as well as other more illustrious modern banjos. I think that probably goes for jazz players too.

I've even heard of C/E Paragons being converted from 5 to 4 string.  Don't know if that ever happens with Gibsons.

I would love a vintage Bentley Lemans car, but I'm not wealthy enough, I'm glad some people are though, because they'd never have been preserved, and I'd not be able to see them being driven the way they should be.

The same goes for all the Spitfires and Mustangs , Steam locomotives etc etc.