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bobbybanjo - Posted - 02/21/2011: 05:12:22
Hennepin County Minnesota
The state's most populous county is considering banning tobacco use anywhere on county property, inside or out, as early as this summer.
By KEVIN DUCHSCHERE, Star Tribune
For years smokers unable to light up inside the Hennepin County Government Center in downtown Minneapolis have found nicotine-charged relief outside on the broad red-brick sweep of Government Plaza. Now the plaza could soon be off-limits too. The County Board is considering banning all tobacco use anywhere on county grounds, inside and out, even if you're parked on county property in your own car. The proposal came from Board Chair Mike Opat, who cited the litter and health effects of "an ugly and disgusting habit that visits itself on everybody else. It's time to take the next step and get on with it." The measure received a favorable hearing at a board briefing Thursday, even though some issues remain to be ironed out. Proponents argue that it would reduce exposure to secondhand smoke, cut down on unsightly cigarette butts littering entrances and improve workplace productivity. It would put the state's largest county in the forefront of a rising tide to further restrict smoking in publicly owned places, a movement that recently has seen growth at parks and colleges.
"If we're able to pass this policy, it would help pave the way for other counties going through the same struggles and pave the way as an example," said Tera King, wellness analyst for Hennepin County's HealthWorks program.
The policy change, which could be taken up by county commissioners next month and take effect this summer, comes as new tobacco regulations are being implemented around the country and others might be loosened. The New York Times reported this month that hospitals and medical firms in many states no longer hire job applicants who smoke. A USA Today analysis last week showed that more hotels nationally are going smoke-free, even where it's not required by law.
jwgreene01 - Posted - 02/21/2011: 05:33:26
Vote with your feet and skeedaddle.
mike gregory - Posted - 02/21/2011: 05:36:16
How about we force all tobacco farmers and their families to work in Chinese-style factories making those mercury-based spiral light bulbs, and pay them the same amount of money that they've averaged as farmers?
Then, since ordinary light bulbs are going to be prohibited by law, ban the importation of spiral bulbs, and price domestic bulbs high enough to cover the famers' salaries.
They won't suffer any financial loss, and they still get to produce something in the "toxic if inhaled" category. It's win-win, and everybody's happy.
Oh, by the way:
It is almost impossible to discuss politicians passing laws, without immediately getting into the Forbidden Zone of political discussion.
steve j. - Posted - 02/21/2011: 07:20:14
I use to smoke cigs , no more . But I do smoke a cigar most nights.
I dont want to smell smoke in a restaurant while Im eating. That law was a good one to me .
Going any farther is no bueno,, iN my OPINION
Ev - Posted - 02/21/2011: 07:55:43
I quit smoking 13 years ago and the smell of smoke doesn't bother me at all. It used to be your right as an American citizen to smoke or not pretty much wherever you pleased. I miss the "good old days" and I feel sorry for all the smokers out there being relegated to second class citizenship.
donc - Posted - 02/21/2011: 08:36:15
Those laws have been in effect here for a few years. Its prohibited in public buildings,restaurants,bars,bus stops, and retail stores. Most work places are included. When I worked for the telephone co. it was only allowed in the loading dock area. Everyone from vice- presidents to janitors would crowd together in the outside air for a smoke. If they want to smoke now they have to be away from the building. They have even enacted legislation to stop smoking in public parks, although they havn't legally been able to fine anybody. The bar owners originally thought they would go broke. What has happened is that they now sell twice as much food. Governments here pay the medical bills. That may have something to do with the discouragement of smoking. The funny thing is that they are still making millions off of tobacco sales taxes.
Ronnie - Posted - 02/21/2011: 08:38:29
I would rather see chewing gum prohibited!!
Cornflake - Posted - 02/21/2011: 08:53:05
There is a tavern in a tiny burg in this rural part of Oregon who found out their patronage went way up when the state smoking ban went in effect. I'm all for it.
Penel - Posted - 02/21/2011: 13:33:44
quote:
Originally posted by Cornflake
There is a tavern in a tiny burg in this rural part of Oregon who found out their patronage went way up when the state smoking ban went in effect. I'm all for it.
That's what's happened here in Chicago too.
What more, the quality of musician on finds at public jams seems to have gone up here as well.
Plus, parents don't hesitate to bring their music studying children to listen as well. I anticipate a whole new generation of fiddle and banjo players evolving as a result.
Klondike Waldo - Posted - 02/21/2011: 18:50:19
quote:
Originally posted by Ev
I quit smoking 13 years ago and the smell of smoke doesn't bother me at all. It used to be your right as an American citizen to smoke or not pretty much wherever you pleased. I miss the "good old days" and I feel sorry for all the smokers out there being relegated to second class citizenship.
I used to smoke cigars an pipes too- both of which were excellent mosquito deterrents, BTW. The problem occurs when other people who choose not to smoke are down wind of the smoker, thus having
their choice made for them.
bubbalouie - Posted - 02/21/2011: 19:36:54
I'm a quitter too but I'm with Ev .
Has the world gone M.A.D.D. ?!?!.
Penel - Posted - 02/21/2011: 19:45:54
quote:
Originally posted by bubbalouie
I'm a quitter too but I'm with Ev .
Has the world gone M.A.D.D. ?!?!.
Mothers Against Drunk Driving?
madd.org/
Edited by - Penel on 02/21/2011 19:51:24
dmiller - Posted - 02/21/2011: 20:50:25
Back a few years ago (here in Duluth, Mn.) smoking was being regulated in the local restaurants. There had to be a definite "non-smoking" section, complete with air filters so that no smoke would from the smoking section to other areas of the restaurant. That was a good thing.
The only problem with it was that the "local powers that be" kept changing the rules about the air filtration systems, and slowly the Mom and Pop diners were forced out of business because they had to spend all those $$$ trying to comply with the ever-changing regulations.
Next - - - anti-smoking attention was turned to the bars and bowling alleys. I can understand bowling alleys where kids are present and families out for fun, but not bars. Most folks who go to bars, also choose to smoke (at least up here) and there are MANY bars up here who made it a point to advertise "NO SMOKING IN HERE AT ALL". Both sets of bars (pro and con smoking), got their share of the business with those that preferred one over the other, with customers patronizing the one of their choice. It used to be a win-win situation. Go grab a beer at your local smoking waterhole, or your nonsmoking one. Simple.
What really irks me, is the fact that the local Casinos (owned and operated by Native Americans - - - to use the PC term) are exempt from any and all anti-tobacco reformists, whereas the VFW here in town (a private club for veterans only) is told that it's members (veterans of many different wars), cannot light up a cigarette or a cigar while inside. Private clubs that were willingly joined by those qualified to do so, are now being told how their members can or cannot act within the walls of the club they joined. Bars (in buildings which the bar owner actually owns and pays property taxes on to the city) are now being told how to conduct/ regulate the "habits" of those who choose to come inside.
Again - - - you get the "Mom and Pop" business being tarred and feathered, and run down the rails.
If a company (like the local hospital) doesn't want to hire someone who smokes, so be it.
That would be part of the hiring process. That's the hospital's administrative choice and prerogative.
But - - - they CHOOSE to set the standards for their actions rather than being TOLD to do so.
The "Mom and Pop" businesses/ etc., are being run by a different set of rules - to their detriment.
Many good comments here previously posted. I don't agree with all, but I found good points in all of them.
Remember - - - Tobacco is a legal substance, and folks (companies) are going to roll it/ market it:
and other folks will buy it/ stick in their mouths/ and set it on fire.
Some folks run establishments where they don't mind seeing/ smelling burning tobacco.
And neither do the customers that patronize them. C'est la vie.
Slingerland - Posted - 02/21/2011: 20:59:07
Smoking has been banned in Restaurants/bars and the like, here in Ohio for a few years. I am not a smoker and I dislike smoke being around my family or myself. I am entirely against such bans because I feel the market should control.
A consumer can decide not to frequent a restaurant that has smoking (like I would). I don't like the such decisions to be taken away from the business owners. Owners will make value judgments as to how to make the most money or to be the happiest based on some other standard. I like the results of the smoking ban, but don't like the tying of the owners' hands.
(this is not political)
dmiller - Posted - 02/21/2011: 21:05:05
Oh - - forgot to add. There are several companies here now that require any employee who smokes, to do so off grounds. One of the latest city ordinances has been to ban any and all smoking, within 15 feet of any bus stop here in town too. Also - - any bar that wanted to allow patrons to smoke while drinking their beer (or whatever) had to provide it on the sidewalk outside the establishment. Of course - - - that included a "license and fee" to do so.
What was that famous quote from Charlie Brown? Oh yea. 'GOOD GRIEF".
Cornflake - Posted - 02/21/2011: 22:57:53
I sometimes visit a local Indian casino and am pretty disgusted by the smoke. Of course it's my choice to enter the casino, but I feel bad for all those employees, native American and non-native who work in that environment. Their employment options are pretty limited in the vicinity of the reservation. They're inhaling that smoke for eight hours, day after day. Second-hand smoke has been shown to be a serious health threat. It's sad. (Then, of course, there are the smokers who purposely sit beside you and light up in hopes of shooing you away from the machine you're on, but that's another issue)
A big reason for these smoking bans is precisely this problem of second-hand smoke. It's irritating to lungs and threatening to health--especially the health of employees. Personal freedom has its limits when harm is done to others.
janeway - Posted - 02/22/2011: 04:14:57
I don't know wether my view will be considered political,I'm sorry if it is.Not meant to be.. But my father fought in a war to stop Segregation and Discrimination,and Martin Luther King Jnr fought for the same thing. Isn't what the governments are doing to smokers the same ? Can't smoke in restaurants,shops, any public places,made to stand outside in all weathers away from any one.Some hospitals here won't give medical treatment unless they quit smoking first,Sounds All Too Familiar to me.Next they'll herd them all on to a desert island away from the main population and say it's for the Greater Good. I know secondary smoke is bad for others, but there must be a fairer way of treating people,who lately have had there Power of Freedom taken away from them.Great harm is done by Drunks and Drug Addicts, they will rob,maim,and use violence to get there next fix,even murder.
Gomer - Posted - 02/22/2011: 06:50:09
your freedom ends where my nose begins and that included olfactory sensors.
Paul R - Posted - 02/22/2011: 07:50:16
I'll never forget sitting in the El Mocambo waiting for the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band to come on. It was like sitting in a stinky fog. It was the seventies and smoking was allowed everywhere. If that were today, I wouldn't be breathing the second-hand smoke and my eyes wouldn't be hurting. I wouldn't be heading home wearing clothes that reeked. That stuff is noxious and hazardous.
I don't think that "discriminating against" smokers for the comfort and health of others can be equated to racial segragation and discrimination. It's a matter of health and consideration for others. My classroom had a "peanut free zone" sign, because we had kids with peanut allergies. Were we discriminating against peanut butter addicts?
Smoking is an addiction, not a right.
minstrelmike - Posted - 02/22/2011: 07:59:19
quote:
Originally posted by Ev
...It used to be your right as an American citizen to smoke or not pretty much wherever you pleased. I miss the "good old days" and I feel sorry for all the smokers out there being relegated to second class citizenship.
It used to be your right as a Sioux chief to smoke in your own tipi without being bothered by Europeans.
No American should be talking about inalienable rights.
Just because your nation had these boundaries and your neighbors had these traditions on the day you were born means nothing in the larger scheme of things. Choose a different day and defend those borders and traditions. Makes just as much sense.
Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 02/22/2011: 08:16:52
A Continuation of the 70's dissemination campain by the "Anti's"....Nothing is safe!
fivebranch - Posted - 02/22/2011: 08:25:54
How will these law affect electronic cigarettes? Just "water vapor"???
stevel - Posted - 02/22/2011: 08:56:35
car exhaust is much worse than cig smoke. just sayin... since most anti-smoking folks own devices with nasty ol' combustion engines.
Ronnie - Posted - 02/22/2011: 08:59:03
I guess we could get rid of the cars and ride horses, but they produce methane.
jwgreene01 - Posted - 02/22/2011: 08:59:26
quote:
Originally posted by Gomer
your freedom ends where my nose begins and that included olfactory sensors.
Just curious does this include smoke from a neighbor’s fireplace; exhaust from a truck, driving by a dead skunk on the side of a road, the most obnoxious perfume permeating from the woman standing next to you in an elevator or down wind from a sewer?
ncmedic - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:01:14
quote:
Originally posted by stevel
car exhaust is much worse than cig smoke. just sayin... since most anti-smoking folks own devices with nasty ol' combustion engines.
is this supposed to be relative to smoking tobacco etc?
Ronnie - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:04:49
Y'all settle this yourselves. I'm going out to my smoking porch!
Nancy - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:05:53
quote:
Originally posted by Ronnie
Y'all settle this yourselves. I'm going out to my smoking porch!
Me too, Ronnie. Let them settle all this.
ncmedic - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:06:45
quote:
Originally posted by Ronnie
Y'all settle this yourselves. I'm going out to my smoking porch!
Thats funny Ronnie. I like your comment
Tommy
stevel - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:10:03
quote:
Originally posted by Ronnie
I guess we could get rid of the cars and ride horses, but they produce methane.
yup. they'll always find something to complain about. then try to legislate it.
Penel - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:10:46
I'm willing to admit I'm opinionated on this subject. My dad insisted he die at home when he was dying from Emphysema. Don't I know now what that entailed.
It looks like a cousin of mine might be burying her son (in his early 40s) if his Cancer isn't cured.
I suppose the smokers here won't mind having family members change their diapers towards the end. I'd like to avoid that prospect as long as possible by not doing anything really stupid.
Second hand smoke triggers auto-immune disease in me. I avoid it like the plague. Steroids to deal with auto-immune disease have given my eyes too many cataracts already.
Down state Illinois isn't like the rest of the state. The no smoking laws aren't always enforced down there
which means, when I go down there I don't eat out = I don't put my money into the local economy.
The strange part of it though, those buying cigarettes always look like the least to be able to afford the luxury.
That's just an observation.
inniepie - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:14:22
We have some pretty strict laws against smoking in Vancouver. I think you have to be at least 10 yards away from any public building these days. I smoked as a young adult and I still have the very odd cigarillo, although I can't remember the last one I had. I suppose I don't understand why a healthy, mature adult would smoke these days given the risk of lung cancer, potential for increased blood pressure, heart disease, emphysema etc., not to mention stained teeth and fingers, bad breath, pasty skin, smelly clothes...but I figure we all have the right to choose how we want to live, as long as you keep it in your own home. You won't get anyone lighting up here in a social situation. Many of our psychiatric patients at the mental health team where I work are choosing to quit smoking and with support and Nicotine Replacement Therapy, we have a pretty good success rate.
I just asked my 13 year old how she felt about smoking, and she replied "Eww."
Nancy - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:15:52
quote:
Originally posted by Penel
I'm willing to admit I'm opinionated on this subject. My dad insisted he die at home when he was dying from Emphysema. Don't I know now what that entailed.
It looks like a cousin of mine might be burying her son (in his early 40s) if his Cancer isn't cured.
I suppose the smokers here won't mind having family members change their diapers towards the end. I'd like to avoid that prospect as long as possible by not doing anything really stupid.
Second hand smoke triggers auto-immune disease in me. I avoid it like the plague. Steroids to deal with auto-immune disease have given my eyes too many cataracts already.
Down state Illinois isn't like the rest of the state. The no smoking laws aren't always enforced down there
which means, when I go down there I don't eat out = I don't put my money into the local economy.
The strange part of it though, those buying cigarettes always look like the least to be able to afford the luxury.
That's just an observation.
Opoinionated? You bet.
Now I have had to change my husbands diapers. He had a massive stroke. Not from cigarettes...but a stroke from stress!
If you folks don't agree...make the ones that smoke lose all their rights. That ought to cure the problem?You can put all the smokers in jail. That ought to teach them to obey you.
Soon you too will lose some of your rights. We all will. You must judge others? Good grief.
Penel - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:27:17
quote:
Originally posted by Nancy
Opoinionated? You bet.
Now I have had to change my husbands diapers. He had a massive stroke. Not from cigarettes...but a stroke from stress!
If you folks don't agree...make the ones that smoke lose all their rights. That ought to cure the problem?You can put all the smokers in jail. That ought to teach them to obey you.
Soon you too will lose some of your rights. We all will. You must judge others? Good grief.
Nancy, I'm sorry your husband had a stroke from stress. A stoke might be in my future too if I get exposed to more second hand smoke. I was a prisoner to my house, literally, before the nonsmoking laws kicked in.
Nancy - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:31:38
quote:
Originally posted by Penel
quote:
Originally posted by Nancy
Opoinionated? You bet.
Now I have had to change my husbands diapers. He had a massive stroke. Not from cigarettes...but a stroke from stress!
If you folks don't agree...make the ones that smoke lose all their rights. That ought to cure the problem?You can put all the smokers in jail. That ought to teach them to obey you.
Soon you too will lose some of your rights. We all will. You must judge others? Good grief.
Nancy, I'm sorry your husband had a stroke from stress. A stoke might be in my future too if I get exposed to more second hand smoke. I was a prisoner to my house, literally, before the nonsmoking laws kicked in.
Hey, I smoke. I have Had 16 years of taking care of an invalid. He followed the stroke with two brain tumors. My nerves get a work out. It's either pill or cigs. I smoke rather than be a zombie from drugs.
Now you all can put both Ronnie and me in jail? Betta can't. Nobody wants my job.
Sorry you were a prisioner. Now everybody that smokes can be prisoners.
inniepie - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:33:45
It could be worse - let's not forget the thread about that new law in Africa saying it is illegal to pass wind. I've already told my daughter I won't be able to take her there. :o)
Nancy - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:37:22
quote:
Originally posted by inniepie
It could be worse - let's not forget the thread about that new law in Africa saying it is illegal to pass wind. I've already told my daughter I won't be able to take her there. :o)
You like this better?
Honduras law lets police be called on home smokers
– 21 hours ago
TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras — The last refuge is vanishing for besieged smokers — at least in Honduras. A new law that took effect Monday says family members can call in the police on people who smoke at home.
The new measure bans smoking in most closed public or private spaces and orders smokers to stand at least six feet away from nonsmokers in any open space.
google.com/hostednews/ap/artic...f655e66e4
KE - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:43:53
I have no problem with anyone smoking in their home, car or private smoking porch. I have no problem restricting smoking in public spaces. I have no problem requiring smokers to carry health insurance with elevated premiums; I'm not paying for their addiction through increased insurance costs for nonsmokers.
Ronnie - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:47:01
A couple of anti-smoking fanatics were Adolf Hitler and Henry Ford, who hired spies to watch his employees to see if they smoked in their homes.
ncmedic - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:51:22
quote:
Originally posted by Ronnie
A couple of anti-smoking fanatics were Adolf Hitler and Henry Ford, who hired spies to watch his employees to see if they smoked in their homes.
Thats crazy! Did you know some insurance policies test you for smoking before the policy goes into effect?
There are lots of crazy things going on but I don't want to get this topic locked out so I will not mention them.
Tommy
Nancy - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:53:11
Hey, don't worry about it.
If you folks think smokers need to be prisoners...sent us to jail.
Now about a dozen of you can do my job here. You gotta take care of an invalid 24/7s. You gotta build a cabin. You gotta run errands for all the seniors and invalids that need to go somewhere. You gotta take meals to shutins, you gotta go to see the sick and comfort them. You gotta play taxi free when you get a phone call to do so. You gotta be pleasant to everyone ALL the time. You gotta be on call for anyone in need. You gotta keep the house clean as a pin, do shopping, keep a small store at home, cook three meals a day...and don't do leftovers. You gotta cut up food for those that can't and make it so they can eat. You have to clean up runs and caca in clothes or thow them out. You gotta mow the grass, or shovel snow. You gotta let dogs in and out and take care of them. You gotta sweep and clean the porches and deck. You gotta wash clothes. You gotta give baths. You gotta give meds when needed. You gotta take invalid ladies shopping and take care of them and find what they need. You gotta put in windows and doors. You gotta mend anything broken. You only get a few hours sleep and that's not all at once. So..you stay up nights to take care of others.
That is what I do. Follow me if you can and tell me what I can and can't do.
Make me obey your rules.
I do all this and a few hundred other things. Want my job?
inniepie - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:55:33
quote:
Originally posted by Ronnie
A couple of anti-smoking fanatics were Adolf Hitler and Henry Ford, who hired spies to watch his employees to see if they smoked in their homes.
Gee, I don't give a toss what anyone does in their own home, or on their porch...
Nancy - Posted - 02/22/2011: 09:57:04
quote:
Originally posted by inniepie
quote:
Originally posted by Ronnie
A couple of anti-smoking fanatics were Adolf Hitler and Henry Ford, who hired spies to watch his employees to see if they smoked in their homes.
Gee, I don't give a toss what anyone does in their own home, or on their porch...
That ought to keep the smokers in their own prisons. Yep.
KE - Posted - 02/22/2011: 10:00:13
And we have the first Hitler reference. Our work here is done.
Ronnie - Posted - 02/22/2011: 10:01:51
Sorry I brought that up. Henry and Adolf were buddies, BTW.
Nancy - Posted - 02/22/2011: 10:03:24
I am one tough lady. I hear a different drummer than you.
In fact I hear a whole big band.
I play banjo, guitar, dobro not well. But at least I try.
I don't take orders from anyone. Not ever...if those orders are going to hurt me or people that I take care of.
I have been In Alaska to Texas and all in between. I do my thing and let others do theirs. I don't bend easy. I am not even 5 feet tall, but inside I am at least 10 feet tall. I do not know when I am beaten.
I figure that everyday I do the improbable. The impossible takes me longer.
bilge rat - Posted - 02/22/2011: 10:04:40
Where I work..No Smoking on the company owned grounds. Not even in your car.
Thank goodness.
I wish they would pass the No perfume or aftershave law as well! Ever get in a crowded elevator in the AM with 10 women who over dosed on 10 different perfumes? Or the guy who works in the cubicle beside me who obviuosly showers with aftershave?
I do not care what people do in their own homes..that is their business. That is their own castle and nobodys has any right to tell them what to do. And I do enjoy an occasional cigar...but on my own porch and not where it would bother affect anyone else.
ron
Edited by - bilge rat on 02/22/2011 10:09:32
Nancy - Posted - 02/22/2011: 10:08:55
quote:
Originally posted by bilge rat
Where I work..No Smoking on the company owned grounds. Not even in your car.
Thank goodness.
I wish they would pass the No perfume or aftershave law as well! Ever get in a crowded elevator in the AM with 10 women who over dosed on 10 different perfumes? Or the guy who works in the cubicle beside me who obviuosly showers with aftershave?
ron
Not to worry. Soon there will be a law against all that stuff. They can also put those offenders in jail.
Know what? Most the population will be in jail.
Edited by - Nancy on 02/22/2011 10:09:54
kevinwholmes - Posted - 02/22/2011: 10:09:17
I was born with emphysema, never smoked a single cigarette in my life. Lung disease is no fun, for yourself or your family. I've attend pulmonary rehab at Duke University since 2003. EVERY former smoker who has been there that I've spoken with said they wished they never smoked. A tour of the facility and seeing all the people on oxygen and pushing carts because of smoking might change some smokers minds. I make this comment because I know how lousy it feels not to be able to breathe and hope and care that fewer people have to experience it, whether due to smoking or not. In a way, smokers are lucky. They can make a choice to avoid lung disease, while other people like myself never had that choice.
bilge rat - Posted - 02/22/2011: 10:14:07
Nancy...I am sorry if I offended or mislead you. I surely did not mean that smokers or perfume wearers should be in jail or in front of a firing squad.
ron
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