mojo_monk - Posted - 01/01/2011:  06:06:11

---

Hate may be wasted energy, but it sure feels good to vent sometimes. No apologies should be required unless someone gets hurt. You like something I don't, no big deal - and vice versa.

I'm with Tony when it comes to the recent festival-style versions of Fly Around in G. That said, the "original" 1927 version of it is outstanding: (by Frank Blevins and His Tarheel Ramblers. Fiddler Frank Blevins was 16 years old at the time of this recording) juneberry78s.com/otmsampler/ot...t166.html.


-Sean
2ftlbanjer.wordpress.com/

---

Edited by - mojo_monk on 01/01/2011 06:07:08

certified male - Posted - 01/01/2011:  06:37:01

---

Mississippi Sawyer.....yuck!!!

agent369 - Posted - 01/01/2011:  08:58:10

---

i'm curious.....of these songs you seem to "hate"....were these tunes you liked at one point, then simply got burned out on them or did you actually dislike the song from the first time you heard it? I still feel pretty new to this music, so I can't say I hate any of the tunes mentioned so far, some I've never heard of.

minstrelmike - Posted - 01/01/2011:  11:24:50

---

I liked them at first and then got burned out or learned the words and then disliked the tune (Long Black Veil has no honorable person in it).

I generally like tunes when I learn them (otherwise why learn it?).

But repetition can make the song boring or other folks at jams and in bands can influence you--either way, saying a song is stupid or playing some new version that brings an old decrepit song alive for you again.

---

Edited by - minstrelmike on 01/01/2011 11:26:11

Granada90 - Posted - 01/01/2011:  13:11:40

---

It's been my experience, the more you play/work out a tune with or without a band, the less you like it but just record yourself and you might find no one could do it any better! lol.......you will have invented YOUR way of doing things that no one else does or can even do!

HATE really is a strong word! lol......w/o saying, I never get tired of Scruggs, JD and even Stringbean!......take a listen to Mary Cox's, "Ice Mt"! ....pretty cool!

lucydog - Posted - 01/01/2011:  13:14:41

---

I would have said Cripple Creek, until I heard this... folkways.si.edu/listen2.aspx?t...kid=34278

INFP47 - Posted - 01/01/2011:  15:46:29

---

I guess I'm not very discriminating in my musical tastes but I like virtually every one of the tunes mentioned, at least some versions by certain musicians and I've been listening to some of them for close to 50 years.

Tim

gailg64 - Posted - 01/01/2011:  16:30:33

---

It's not always the tune itself, but how it's played. Dykes Magic City Trio's 1920s recording of Golden Slippers is a thing of sublime beauty. The fiddler John Dykes, was among the best to ever draw a bow & is one of Brad Leftwich's favorite fiddlers, if that means anything to anyone.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ernest M

Ditto on Golden Slippers. Keep that thing away.

---

gailg64 - Posted - 01/01/2011:  16:31:38

---

Except when played by Charlie Poole & NC Ramblers or by New NC Ramblers.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MountainBanjo

Dont let your deal go down.

---

gailg64 - Posted - 01/01/2011:  16:32:44

---

Oh and there's also a wonderful recording of Wade Ward playing the dickens out of of the Deal, old 3 finger style.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MountainBanjo

Dont let your deal go down.

---

gailg64 - Posted - 01/01/2011:  16:40:33

---

Yech, I have disliked that one since I first encountered it over 35 years ago. I hate when everyone emphasizes that icky descending run in the B part. Maybe what I dislike about that one & OTHER modern & over-jammer-ed tunes is the "drama" with which they are played.

quote:

---

Originally posted by FretlessinTexas

I think I overdosed on "Whiskey Before Breakfast" a few years ago. Now when I hear it, I cringe.

---

gailg64 - Posted - 01/01/2011:  16:42:40

---

Amen. That was Frank Blevins' Tarheel Rattlers. Also, they had a tenor banjo, not a 5 string. Javascript:insertsmilie('')

quote:

---

Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

Perhaps a lot of festival types have done damage to "Fly Around My Pretty Little Miss" in G but the original recording from 1927 is pretty good stuff. You'll find it on the "Music of The Lost Provinces" CD - which has some excellent other rare stuff too.

I'm trapped in the middle of "Organizing" my cds so I currently can't find it to read the group name off the back, but it is a recording well worth finding and the whole CD is full of treasures from waaaay down in south-west NC - beyond Rutherfordtown (pronounced "Rufferton" according to my friend who lives there

---

gailg64 - Posted - 01/01/2011:  16:44:14

---

Yeah, but we'd love to hear how YOU play them!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Don Borchelt

I really like most of the old time tunes you guys said that you hate, Valley Forge, Sadie at the Back Door, Angeline, Cripple Creek, Old Joe Clark, Golden Slippers, Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine, Whiskey Before Breakfast, even Down Yonder. I feel so... depressed.

---

gailg64 - Posted - 01/01/2011:  16:47:49

---

Yes, I know what you mean, but you must hear how the great Emmett Lundy fiddled it! Or Benton Flippen 2-fingerpicked it on the banjo. Or how Wade Ward clawhammered it with that special place in the A part that sets it apart from everyone else's version.

quote:

---

Originally posted by certified male

Mississippi Sawyer.....yuck!!!

---

Jim Yates - Posted - 01/01/2011:  18:10:57

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by gailg64

Yech, I have disliked that one since I first encountered it over 35 years ago. I hate when everyone emphasizes that icky descending run in the B part. Maybe what I dislike about that one & OTHER modern & over-jammer-ed tunes is the "drama" with which they are played.

quote:

---

Originally posted by FretlessinTexas

I think I overdosed on "Whiskey Before Breakfast" a few years ago. Now when I hear it, I cringe.

---

---

I think this is great as a song with Mike Cross' words:

Lord preserve us and protect us;
We've been drinkin' whiskey for breakfast.

Jim Yates - Posted - 01/01/2011:  18:15:54

---

youtube.com/watch?v=yu8_-jNhwT8

whyteman - Posted - 01/01/2011:  21:24:13

---

No fair for Chris Via to cite Henry Reed. Mr. Reed even made "Ebeneezer" into a work of art.

Don

maryzcox - Posted - 01/02/2011:  08:08:41

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Don Borchelt

I really like most of the old time tunes you guys said that you hate, Valley Forge, Sadie at the Back Door, Angeline, Cripple Creek, Old Joe Clark, Golden Slippers, Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine, Whiskey Before Breakfast, even Down Yonder. I feel so... depressed.

---

Hey Don--that's because you are such a tasteful player that you make any of those tunes sound good. :)

love,
Mary Z. Cox
maryzcox.com

maryzcox - Posted - 01/02/2011:  08:19:27

---

Although I don't actually hate any particular tune--I really dislike any tune played on the bowed psaltry.

I don't want to offend any folks that play bowed psaltry--it's just something about the vibration of the thing that hurts my ears and hearing.
I've actually heard a couple really pro players of the bowed psaltry--and even with clear intonation--it still actually makes my ears ring and hurt.

What's really odd is almost any time I'm at an open jam--a bowed psaltry player will sit down right beside me--and it will usually be a really nice person that I like--but after even a few notes--I'll either have to get up and go to the bathroom and seat myself somewhere else in the circle when I get back or leave the jam suddenly because it just pierces my hearing.

Best wishes always,
Mary Z. Cox
ps. Bowed saw doesn't bother me at all--I actually enjoy a good bowed saw player.

mybote - Posted - 01/02/2011:  09:27:45

---

There are alot of songs I get tired of hearing over and over. But when I hear a young banjo player hittin' the stage for the first time playin' Cripple Creek or Bile 'em Cabage Down, It gives those songs a whole new breath of fresh air.

rgoad - Posted - 01/02/2011:  09:41:55

---

Is this sort of like people not liking 'cover' bands? I don't care much for someone imitating another player step-by-step but when someone makes the song their own I hardly ever tire of a tune.

Supertone - Posted - 01/02/2011:  11:20:46

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by gailg64

Except when played by Charlie Poole & NC Ramblers or by New NC Ramblers.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MountainBanjo

Dont let your deal go down.

---

....or Fiddlin John Carson.....

---

troy_nov1965 - Posted - 01/03/2011:  10:47:32

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ethan_vivian

Deuling banjos got old really quick. I can't even stand to hear it anymore. I will never play it.

---

i couldnt agree more

greenhorn - Posted - 01/03/2011:  12:01:19

---

Of all the tunes listed on this topic...I'd take any one of 'em over listening to pop music/commercial radio.

slabounty - Posted - 01/04/2011:  08:02:42

---

I like most if not all of the tunes mentioned so far (OK, maybe not dueling banjos), both to listen to and play. I've only been into old time for a few years now so maybe that'll change.

Scott

wormpicker - Posted - 01/04/2011:  18:01:59

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by J-Walk


Well, except for "Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine." I really hate that one.

---

I thought it was "Bonaparte's Retreat" you hated, J-Walk.

Paul

clawhammerjazz - Posted - 01/05/2011:  06:08:06

---

Sorry to be off topic, but this is a note to Tony (Old Woodchuck) and others. NC's "lost provinces" refers to Alleghany and Ashe Counties which are in the northwest part of the state, not the territory west of "Rufferton" in the southwest part of the state. It's just one more example of the reason for the term, I guess. Great old time music here, though, that indeed has its own wrinkles. Regards from the lost provinces, --Cjazz

FretlessFury - Posted - 01/05/2011:  10:09:12

---

I sure can't think of a single old-time tune that I "hate". Shoot, Cripple Creek is a whole world for me. I don't think I could ever get tired of playing that tune.

Some of the ones that were named are some of my favorites!

slc - Posted - 01/05/2011:  12:09:06

---

An interesting and funny thread! For me it's the note-y tunes I learned early on from tablature, many of which are fiddle competition standards, like Bill Cheatham and Liberty. I just can't 'feel' them so they always remain a bunch of notes and never come alive for me. I can tolerate Yellow Rose of Texas but don't volunteer it at sessions...

I actually like the "hippie" version of Sandy Boys I'm almost embarrassed to admit (so few people play it that way these days that it's almost becoming the obscure version!). Some of the other beginning tunes I'm starting to like all over again. For instance, Old Joe Clark is a LOT of fun to play when you find the groove, and I've had some fine moments with Cripple Creek lately.

minstrelmike - Posted - 01/05/2011:  12:20:19

---

I had that same problem with note-y tunes. I could play Blackberry Blossom but it didn't feel like I was -playing- at it, just doing it.

One day at the jam, I came back from the bathroom and thought they were playing Whiskey Before Breakfast but then I got my banjo out and realized they were in G so I just fooled around on this 'new' fiddle tune and even took a break and didn't realize it was Blackberry Blossom until the very end when they played it straight and I got centered on the A/B parts again.

After that, I took all my beginner songs and worked on just the chord progressions and then figured out simple leads like I would on tunes I didn't know and then the memorized stuff seemed to fall into place.

clawhammermike - Posted - 01/05/2011:  14:36:10

---

fretless - I have never heard of this Shoot, Cripple Creek tune before but I hope it has words and they are about shooting at a creek.

stevel - Posted - 01/06/2011:  05:40:02

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by clawhammermike

fretless - I have never heard of this Shoot, Cripple Creek tune before but I hope it has words and they are about shooting at a creek.

---

wouldn't that be Charlie Poole's Shootin' Creek?

Don Borchelt - Posted - 01/06/2011:  06:12:47

---

Tom "FretlessFury" Collins wrote: "I sure can't think of a single old-time tune that I "hate". Shoot, Cripple Creek is a whole world for me. I don't think I could ever get tired of playing that tune. "

Tom, I'm with you all the way. I think Cripple Creek is still the greatest banjo tune ever thought of. The problem is these lost souls have to experience the tune on a good, bright sounding semi-fretless banjo to really appreciate it!

These "old chestnuts" were well worn even before us city kids got our hands on them decades ago, and for good reason. If the tune sounds old and tired when it's played, it's not the tune's fault.





- Don Borchelt

trapdoor2 - Posted - 01/06/2011:  07:04:32

---

Put me down for not being able to come up with a 'hated' tune.

Oh, I have hated versions of tunes...

Scooter Muse - Posted - 01/06/2011:  07:29:29

---

I don't hate any tune - but Bugle Call Rag and Dear Ol Dixie never did anything for me personally. Maybe someone said that already -- I didn't read the whole thread.

FretlessFury - Posted - 01/06/2011:  07:30:29

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Don Borchelt

I think Cripple Creek is still the greatest banjo tune ever thought of. The problem is these lost souls have to experience the tune on a good, bright sounding semi-fretless banjo to really appreciate it!

---

My banjo is setup so bright these days I've done gone blind, Don.

For those of you Cripple Creek haters, click the graphic in Don's post to hear a super-fine banjorgasmic version.

(Did I just coin that, or is it already in circulation?)

biscuit joiner - Posted - 01/06/2011:  08:25:07

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by FretlessFury

quote:

---

Originally posted by Don Borchelt

I think Cripple Creek is still the greatest banjo tune ever thought of. The problem is these lost souls have to experience the tune on a good, bright sounding semi-fretless banjo to really appreciate it!

---

My banjo is setup so bright these days I've done gone blind, Don.

For those of you Cripple Creek haters, click the graphic in Don's post to hear a super-fine banjorgasmic version.

(Did I just coin that, or is it already in circulation?)

---

I never thought I'd put on fingerpicks again, but whenever I hear Don's tunes I'm not so sure. I just love his style.

LyleK - Posted - 01/06/2011:  08:34:19

---

O.K., I'm striking my claim (there's gold in those chestnuts). TOTW for Feb 4. will be Cripple Creek (unless someone beats me to it!--- please don't). Along those lines, I'm going to try to hit the full range, from "Scruggs style," melodic 3-finger, melodic clawhammer, semi-fretless (thanks Don), "ordinary" clawhammer (is there such a thing?), Round Peak, "wrong tunings" (gEADE and gDGDE), two finger, you name it! And there will be the obligatory link to a Hee-Haw youtube, which may well be the source of some of the Cripple Creek loathing. I can use all the help I can get, so if you know of representative versions please let me know.

And as a sorbet for this chestnut, I'll pair Cripple Creek with Old Buzzard for the Feb 4 TOTW.

agent369 - Posted - 01/06/2011:  08:52:24

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by slc



I actually like the "hippie" version of Sandy Boys I'm almost embarrassed to admit (so few people play it that way these days that it's almost becoming the obscure version!). Some of the other beginning tunes I'm starting to like all over again. For instance, Old Joe Clark is a LOT of fun to play when you find the groove, and I've had some fine moments with Cripple Creek lately.

---

I guess I'm not sure what the "hippie" version of Sandy Boys sounds like, but I would love to hear it.

slc - Posted - 01/06/2011:  10:11:33

---

I like the idea of a "Cripple Creek-a-thon"! Maybe I'll try to record my "version" (after LyleK does it as TOTW of course - he did stake his claim after all) - which is pretty minimal these days since it's the pulse/groove I really like rather than the melody. I sometimes do almost the whole thing playing just one note and it totally rocks (at least in my own head)...

Don that mining bond is great. It's sometimes easy forget there's some gritty and colorful History behind these tunes!

LyleK - Posted - 01/06/2011:  12:20:51

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by slc
I like the idea of a "Cripple Creek-a-thon"! Maybe I'll try to record my "version" (after LyleK does it as TOTW of course - he did stake his claim after all)

---

By all means go for it! My attempt at staking a claim was only for the tune to be "my" TOTW on Feb. 4th. And if any of the two finger pickers are listening ("mojo monk" or Chip A.?), I'm not sure about a source for a Cripple Creek version in that style. If there isn't a recorded version, one or both of you might have to record it. One in finger lead, one in thumb lead?

But ah well, thread drift, so my nominee for a detested song? Go to: nailthatcatfish.tripod.com/nai...tcat.html

It is a GREAT tune, but I've heard it way too many times. I guess the adage about familiarity rings true, as has seemed to be the case for Cripple Creek.

---

Edited by - LyleK on 01/06/2011 12:22:13

cbcarlisle - Posted - 01/06/2011:  12:50:36

---

...If the tune sounds old and tired when it's played, it's not the tune's fault....
Right on, Don!

That's a simpler version of what the great musicologist Curt Sachs said over 50 years ago:

The conventional query of the past, "Does this art meet my demands and expectations?"
must yield to its opposite, "Do I meet the requirements of this art?"

Curt Bouterse
(no relation)

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 01/06/2011:  13:23:05

---

Cjazz,
Sorry about the error. I always assumed ---- but that is just the problem. I assumed. It won't happen again.

kevinwholmes - Posted - 01/06/2011:  14:43:57

---

There aren't many I can say this about, but I hate "Dueling Banjos" and I hate it everytime I pull out a banjo and someone asks if I know how to play it. The original commercial version didn't even feature two banjos; one banjo playing against one guitar, making the title meaningless, plus I don't care for the tune, even with another banjo replacing the guitar.

Don Borchelt - Posted - 01/06/2011:  18:22:47

---

Kevin Holmes wrote: "I hate "Dueling Banjos" and I hate it everytime I pull out a banjo and someone asks if I know how to play it. The original commercial version didn't even feature two banjos; one banjo playing against one guitar, making the title meaningless..."

Now, I'm not trying to be contrary, and I'm definitely not asking anybody to not hate "Dueling Banjos." (Double negative intentional.) Lord knows, it does get irritating to be asked to play the thing for like the fifteenth time in one night, usually by the same drunk. But... I do want to point out that the original "original" commercial version was recorded by Arthur "Guitar Boogie" Smith and Don Reno in 1955, and did feature two banjos, with Smith playing tenor and Don playing five string. It was called "Feudin' Banjos," and when Smith failed to receive writer's credit or royalties from the producers of the movie Deliverance in 1972, he sued and won a substantial judgement.

Okay, I confess, I have sinned, I do like the original "original." My secret guilty pleasure has a wild abandon that is kind of fun, and it only has the Yankee Doodle back and forth thing at the beginning and end, not overworking it (like SOME versions we know). Here is a link to a YouTube posting of the original 1955 Feudin' Banjos:

youtube.com/watch?v=TmMk9tsCjsc


Arthur "Guitar Boogie" Smith

I have a copy of the LP which includes Feudin' Banjos, called "Arthur Smith Specials," that was released by MGM in 1956, a year after the single. It is one of my prized possessions, even though you can sometimes pick it up on Ebay for about five bucks. It includes a really neat Cotton Patch Rag, with Smith on the fiddle, and Reno on five string.

---

Edited by - Don Borchelt on 01/06/2011 18:37:19

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 01/06/2011:  20:09:24

---

It's amazing how this thread about tunes people hate keeps bringing great stuff to our attention! (I just spent an hour watching videos and listening to recordings mentioned here, or related to them).

---

Edited by - Marc Nerenberg on 01/06/2011 20:11:20

Don Borchelt - Posted - 01/06/2011:  20:19:00

---

Thanks, Tom and everybody for the nice comments on Cripple Creek. Clever, huh, hiding it like that. The clawhammer picker on that banjorgasmic rendition is the incomparable Ed Britt, alias BrittDLD1.

blanham - Posted - 01/07/2011:  04:09:34

---

This thread reminded me of a question I've had before: Can you win a contest with a tune the judges hate?

Rule H of the Florida Old Time Music Championship reads as follows (from FOTMC.org):


H. Contestants in all categories should avoid tunes that have been “picked to death.” Note that Choice of Tune is part of the judging criteria. Performances of original tunes and songs are acceptable if they are in traditional styles.


I think Don's Cripple Creek should be a winner, even though "picked to death!"

kevinwholmes - Posted - 01/07/2011:  05:09:46

---

Thanks Don Borchelt for the information and YouTube link to "Feudin' Banjos", which I liked; however I still hate the version of "Duelling Banjos" that most people think of when they request it, and if I could play "Feudin' Banjos" instead, I'm pretty sure the requesters would be baffled and disappointed. Point taken, however and I've learned and heard something new because of your post. Thanks again!