stormoveroklahoma - Posted - 01/14/2010:  09:55:22

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After fifteen years of playing I finally got Pat's "Key to the Five String Banjo"
In addition to single-string and arpa style (melodic) playing, Pat is years ahead at free
associations on the fret board. He uses a lot of pentatonic scales or runs in his playing, which gives it that flowing sound. True, True genius before his time.


Thanks a ton Pat

and thanks to Tuneager for coming up with these rare videos.
I must be in banjo heaven.

Tracy

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Edited by - stormoveroklahoma on 01/14/2010 09:57:13

BanjoSampler - Posted - 01/14/2010:  18:30:08

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quote:

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Originally posted by gdoc

quote:

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Originally posted by BanjoSampler

I had the opportunity to take some lessons from Pat in 1981. As was stated earlier by someone else, I am still working on it!

In 1978, I was a part of the Knott's Berry Farm Invitational Banjo/Fiddle Contest. Byron Berline was one of the judges. After we all played, it was announced that I was in a playoff for first place - my opponent - Pat Cloud! Yikes!

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Who won?

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I did

dhergert - Posted - 01/15/2010:  08:42:27

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Pat and my wife and I and number of friends jammed at a bluegrass association jam for a few hours on New Years' Eve. And after most of the crowd was on their way home, a smaller group of us had some casual fun playing a wider variety of music...

Pat is not only remarkable, he's extremely humble about his playing, and generous about praising other people's work. His knowledge of full chord jazz support always amazes me, I'm dwarfed by his techniques whenever we play together. My relatively sparce homespun playing can only hope to provide some sort of comic relief next to Pat's beautiful full renditions... Yet we both honestly enjoyed playing with each other, perhaps somewhat because of the occasion, and also perhaps because some shared musical philosophies; it was honest enjoyment and is a memory I'll treasure.

I'd categorize Pat as not only an extraordinary professional, but also a genius in his realm. I'm very lucky to be able to listen to his work in person pretty frequently, humbly amazed to ocassionally be able to jam with him, and honored to consider him a friend.

ewertj - Posted - 01/15/2010:  08:43:40

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Those videos are spectacular, thanks for posting them. My question is, when is he writing another book?? It seems like "key" just barely scratches the surface.

pearcemusic - Posted - 01/15/2010:  08:48:50

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quote:

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Originally posted by dhergert

Pat and my wife and I and number of friends jammed at a bluegrass association jam for a few hours on New Years' Eve. And after most of the crowd was on their way home, a smaller group of us had some casual fun playing a wider variety of music...

Pat is not only remarkable, he's extremely humble about his playing, and generous about praising other people's work. His knowledge of full chord jazz support always amazes me, I'm dwarfed by his techniques whenever we play together. My relatively sparce homespun playing can only hope to provide some sort of comic relief next to Pat's beautiful full renditions... Yet we both honestly enjoyed playing with each other, perhaps somewhat because of the occasion, and also perhaps because some shared musical philosophies; it was honest enjoyment and is a memory I'll treasure.

I'd categorize Pat as not only an extraordinary professional, but also a genius in his realm. I'm very lucky to be able to listen to his work in person pretty frequently, humbly amazed to ocassionally be able to jam with him, and honored to consider him a friend.

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I thought I might see him at NAMM yesterday .... he is sometimes at the Goldtone booth playing the banjola ...

these videos are amazing .. and humble ...

dhergert - Posted - 01/15/2010:  09:26:12

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We didn't ask Pat about a book, but we did talk with him a little on New Years Eve about a Gypsy CD he's working on. He's very busy with his regular music at Disneyland and has had some special musical projects there that have been taking a lot of his time. If he's working on another book he didn't mention it; I'd guess it would also be impacted by his schedule at Disneyland.

Disneyland is a pretty amazing place if you go there just to listen to live shows. They do tend to have excellent musicians there in every genre. If you think about it, there are only a relative handful of musicians who can say they have a full time job doing their music with a relatively good salary and a full benefit package. It's a double-edged sword though -- for many of Disneyland's musicians, doing music full time in this relativlely captive environment makes it less fun to do music casually in the evenings and weekends, and makes it harder to carry on personal musical projects during non-working hours.

I know Pat speaks of being very lucky to be able to do music for a living at Disneyland... And as you can probably imagine, he does it extremely well.

gdoc - Posted - 01/15/2010:  20:02:26

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quote:

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Originally posted by BanjoSampler

quote:

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Originally posted by gdoc

quote:

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Originally posted by BanjoSampler

I had the opportunity to take some lessons from Pat in 1981. As was stated earlier by someone else, I am still working on it!

In 1978, I was a part of the Knott's Berry Farm Invitational Banjo/Fiddle Contest. Byron Berline was one of the judges. After we all played, it was announced that I was in a playoff for first place - my opponent - Pat Cloud! Yikes!

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Who won?

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I did

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That speaks volumes of your playing ablility,,,,, congrats!

Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/22/2010:  16:27:27

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Music loves Pat Cloud,
Giving his soul to banjo,
Time to listen, then to weep.

Tuneager - Posted - 01/22/2010:  16:31:20

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I understand he used to be a member here, I wonder what happened?

Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/22/2010:  16:40:59

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That was supposed to be a haiku, but apparently I changed the form for the last line. It just came out that way, oh well.

Pat had to deal with the horrible online reality of opinionated people (so many egos) expressing themselves, encouraging fault-finding attitudes, pushing provincial opinions, ganging up on him like a pack of dogs. They actually seemed to enjoy it, some of them. Nobody needs the abuse he was getting, and he got ganged up on. Then they blamed him for reacting like a sane person and pulling his posts and walking out of threads. I've often felt like doing the same thing, but then they gang up on you even more and destroy reputation. Horrible.

Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/22/2010:  16:47:01

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Music loves Pat Cloud,
Giving his soul to banjo,
Playing across time,
Dancing over silv'ry strings
Time to listen, now to weep.



It's a tanka now.

Tuneager - Posted - 01/22/2010:  17:06:08

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Anything new or pushing the envelope will always challenge the provincial few. I don't blame him. While many could benefit from his knowledge, there's always some more powerful who don't want it known. The problem is they cant take it away.

Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/23/2010:  15:25:34

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tuneager

Anything new or pushing the envelope will always challenge the provincial few. I don't blame him. While many could benefit from his knowledge, there's always some more powerful who don't want it known. The problem is they cant take it away.

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Exactly. Pat, being so passionate, talented and non-conformist, and so far ahead musically, pushing the envelope in all directions, well, the fault-finders who bated and hounded him were uniquely unqualified to appreciate his real genius and humility, instead constructing cheap stereotypes about him. It was scandalous and sickening to see people turn on him and discredit him in a public forum, clearly relishing the opportunity to get in a dig. Pointless and cruel. I remember them, well.

Talk is cheap. Pat can play. God I hate critics who have nothing better to do. I think Pat did the right thing in walking away. He got out of *banjo hell*. No offense to anyone. It happened. A lot of folks could do nothing about it either but wanted to help. It just got totally out of hand in a meaningless gladiator pit of mean opinions.

That's my take on it. It was wrong.

Tuneager - Posted - 01/23/2010:  15:29:19

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I notice that exact childish thing popping up amongst "musicians". It's sad.
I've come to deduce that most musicians are egomaniacs with inferiority complexes.

schwimbo - Posted - 01/23/2010:  19:25:56

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I'm not sure if tuneager's last post relates at all to my comments about single string style versus roll style playing when it comes to jazz improv. If it does, than I'm glad that he called me a ""musician"" :-) However (again assuming that he is posting about my post), all I did was offer my opinion about single string style versus roll style playing, and my opinion is different than his. I wasn't bashing Pat Cloud (if he thinks I was), but saying that I think that it is harder to do what Pat is doing (using rolls) than it might be to use single string style playing to solo in a bop style. Look at Tom Slavicek's results (achieved with more of a single string style of playing - and posted at Andrew Conde's homepage here) and decide if that sounds like good bop banjo. He has an extra low string to help out, but that advantage aside, he does a good job with the technique. I have never met him, and never seen a video of him playing, but judging from the sound, I would say it sounds like more of a single string style approach. If tuneager doesn't like that sound, that is his choice, However, my comments are just thoughts based on my own musical perspectives, and I am not making them because of ego or anything like that. I'm certainly nowhere close to the player that Pat Cloud is (when it comes to playing jazz banjo using rolls) and I certainly have the highest respect for the difficult path he has chosen to follow. I just think that it is difficult, and likely more difficult than attempting it using a bit more of single string style playing.

If tuneager's last post was not directed at me, than I apologize for the reply. I do think that the discussion of different approaches to jazz soloing (roll style versus single string style) isn't one that should be looked at as being insulting to the practitioners of either one.

gdoc - Posted - 01/23/2010:  19:43:46

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I met Pat on several occasions.. but if I were to see him in a music store now he wouldn't know me, too many people for him to remember. But what I remember is his wholesome honesty. He was kind and friendly to everyone, even people like me who were no where near his calibure of playing. He'd just look you in the eyes and say "lets pick some" and he'd keep it simple for people like me.

There is room in this world for all styles of picking, and if people were "ganging up" on Pat, it was their loss, and shows the type of people they are. I've seen Pat pick with the best and also beginners, and he had the same enthusiam with each. This was 30 years ago or so.

Perhaps if some of you who do know Pat, you should pass on to him that there are a lot of people, Pros and Nobodys who do appreciate him, even here at the BHO.

Gawd, I wish they had spell check here.... sorry about my lack of word knowledge.

pearcemusic - Posted - 01/23/2010:  20:22:54

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schwimbo ... I don't think charlie was responding to your post ...
if you take a look at the whole thread it will be clearer ...

and gdoc .... yeah, Pat is VERY appreciated by some of us.

Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/23/2010:  21:03:02

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Pat, never mind cyberspace, has the good habit of spreading kindness, hands-on teaching and goodwill. He plays with people, non-judgmentally. Pat can play.

T-Dawg - Posted - 01/23/2010:  21:20:17

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Great discussion and info on Pat Cloud and approaches to jazz & bebop. Thanks especially for the video links!

I'm guessing Pat's falling out with folks on this site is the reason why some of his contributions to the lessons posted (working with the tones of the major scale,
how to learn the scales) seem to lead nowhere?... Is any of this material available elsewhere?

Well I won't take the time to look back and read through what all went down, but suffice it to say it is a real shame that we can no longer count him among us (perhaps there is a lesson to be learned here!...).

Tuneager - Posted - 01/23/2010:  21:23:27

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He did a book titled "The Keys to 5-string banjo", published by Mel Bay. There is a website of his where there are some studies you can look and listen to at:
patcloud.com/

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Edited by - Tuneager on 01/23/2010 21:47:58

Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/24/2010:  09:21:21

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That's a fun site to navigate around, to hear some of the jazz and bluegrass tunes. I got such a sense of freedom (listening to Pat's freewheeling banjo) on Train 45. My wife, who's folding clothes and tidying things up upstairs, walked by my office and beamed, "That's lovely!" That was 'Wayfaring Stranger'.

The melodic exercises are very liberating and I like the fact that Pat hasn't written in picking hand fingerings. I found myself doing a lot of TIM and TIMI patterns but I was trying different things and not worrying about which finger to use for the picking hand.

Pat's approach to the neck of a banjo, beyond bluegrass and jazz, is very useful to a player who's interested in learning Celtic tunes without a capo, requiring a strong, flexible and dexterous fretting hand. The jazz tunes, e.g., 'Danny Boy' and 'Over the Rainbow' are serious chord studies and finger busters.

Great stuff, and it's only the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg.

Ryan Cavanaugh - Posted - 01/30/2010:  00:02:17

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youtube.com/watch?v=Ihr8LVCIyhU

schwimbo - Posted - 01/30/2010:  02:33:50

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Good stuff on "Cherokee", Ryan. I think that "single string style" (regardless of which right hand fingers are used) allows one to be more "in the moment" (with less effort) than roll style playing when it comes to improvising, and this makes Pat Cloud's undertaking all the more formidable. I like to go with the easier approach myself. Have you heard any of Tom Slavicek's jazz playing? Check out Andrew Conde's homepage - he has some good clips posted. Very tasteful stuff in my opinion.

Ryan Cavanaugh - Posted - 01/30/2010:  13:26:07

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I've heard Tom's playing, however that was a 6 string banjo.

schwimbo - Posted - 01/30/2010:  15:16:20

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Yeah - Tom has that extra low string which makes it easier to move "laterally" across the fingerboard, and gives him extra range that a regular 5 string doesn't have. However, if the goal is musical expression, than why not take advantage of things that make that easier to do. If there were 6 string banjos readily available, I might like to get hold of one. Sonny Osborne used one for a while back in the 1970s, and I think that there were some cheaper commercially available ones that were manufactured by a Japanese instrument company (maybe Aria). Sonny's might have been made by Vega.

pearcemusic - Posted - 01/30/2010:  15:40:23

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Greg Liszt of "Crooked Still" plays a 7 string Geoff Stelling made for him.
I'l try to get 5 right ....

schwimbo - Posted - 01/30/2010:  16:11:19

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I haven't heard Greg play the 7 string banjo. He is another really great player.

Sometimes it is harder to get as good results with less strings. Imagine how difficult it might be to play 5 string banjo if the 1st string was broken. Though the chord options would be simpler, you'd need to do a lot more shifting of positions up and down the neck rather than working laterally, and single lines (played single string style) would also need to be played with more shifting of positions to play the same melody lines.

Ryan Cavanaugh - Posted - 01/30/2010:  18:12:33

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This may be kind of far from the subject, however I'd like to address this subject. The way 5-string banjo players refer to "Chromatics" is a completely derogatory term. "Chromatic" is a type of scale just like the major, minor, or diminished scale. "Chromatic" means ALL 12 notes including sharps and flat. In the world of 5-string banjo however, it is used to describe an arpeggiated style of picking invented by Bill Keith, Bobby Thompson, Don Stover etc..., involving open notes and the fretting of the 5th string to utilize chromatic passages in other scales (ie. the blues scale).

~just wanted to make this clear ;)

pearcemusic - Posted - 01/31/2010:  15:45:38

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I must have missed something ....

I love Charlie's exuberance (you know I do Charlie) ... but I don't think Ryan was making a derogatory statement ... he was merely pointing out that some banjo players use the term as a "cut" .... like ... "those dadgum chromatic players come in and mess up our jam session" ... and I know you weren't trying to be abrasive.

Ryan was saying that some of us don't associate the word in that way .... but some do .... and improperly. (am I right Ryan ... or DID I miss it?)

Ryan ... thanks for posting here ... you enrich the hangout with your great playing and experience.

... and ... I'm not trying to argue here ... but amongst great musicians, age doesn't mean squat. Didn't Bird die at ... like 34 years old ... ? ... 37 ... can't remember ... that's my age showing.

Ryan Cavanaugh - Posted - 01/31/2010:  16:50:46

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Thanks Pierce. I think Charlie misunderstood what I was saying. I absolutely love "melodic" style banjo playing and all the players who do it. No disrespect to them.

pearcemusic - Posted - 01/31/2010:  20:01:32

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I thought so ... and if I know Charlie he will immediately see the misunderstanding ...

--dp

Ryan Cavanaugh - Posted - 02/01/2010:  00:35:15

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All I was saying is that the term "Chromatic" doesn't do justice to the banjoists who play that style. It puts a silly label on them. There should be a better suited term like "modern." Have you ever heard of "Chromatic" style guitar? I haven't...nor have any guitar players. For instance: When describing Pat Cloud's banjo playing to a trumpeter who has never heard of him, one would sound miseducated to the trumpeter if they were to describe him as a "chromatic" player. I would simply describe Pat as a bebop banjo player.

pearcemusic - Posted - 02/01/2010:  05:36:36

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sorry charlie ... got no crystal ball .. that's not my aim.
I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

a little understanding goes a long way ... I've failed at that many times.

Here's the point ... don't do to other great players what you claim people have done to Pat.

fair enough?

Tuneager - Posted - 02/01/2010:  09:16:01

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Ok, I re-edited my above post(s), and never meant my own reaction to the term "Chromatics" to be interpreted as, or reflecting hostility and personal jabs, I try to pay compliments as well. My even starting this thread was directed only at trying to give credit to an under-appreciated genius. Words are sometimes a weak way to express concepts. If anything it comes out of my own personal experiences during that Melodic period when it was considered fairly heretical to play in that "style". My comments are simply opinions in a forum, my apologies to anyone who took offense, at least my words weren't printed in the NY Times, or someplace similar, where they would have much more effect than they do here. I realize many people leave forums such as these over differences of opinions, I'll try to choose my words more carefully.

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Edited by - Tuneager on 02/01/2010 09:46:02

Ryan Cavanaugh - Posted - 02/01/2010:  18:33:07

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I should have done a better job articulating my initial entry. Apologies.

mbirdmusic@aol.com - Posted - 02/01/2010:  18:46:13

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Bird died at 29. Coroner estimated his age at death at around 65! did not treat himself too well! Glenn

Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/01/2010:  19:48:54

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Ornithology thread. Who knew?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornithology

Tuneager - Posted - 02/01/2010:  20:40:34

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ryan Cavanaugh

youtube.com/watch?v=Ihr8LVCIyhU

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Ryan,

Regardless of instrument, style, string techniques, categories, labels, personalities, etc., I want to commend you on your playing on Cherokee, it is some of the best "musicianship" I've seen in a long time. It really belies comparison, yet it made me think of Pat Martino during some of his best moments. I hesitate to say that, but my hope is that you will consider that to be taken as a compliment, great playing, great music, and most of all great musicianship. I look forward to hearing even more. 2010 allows technology musicians have never had before. Congratulations on all your accomplishments. The banjo surely has come a long way.

schwimbo - Posted - 02/01/2010:  23:02:19

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I don't know if John McLaughlin is criticizing just "purists" who happen to be very opinionated (and think their favorite style of music is the only "correct" style) or purists who prefer a traditional style (but don't claim that other styles are not legitimate) too. If he is including the latter, then I don't agree with that attitude, because there should be room for people who want to maintain a "traditional" sound or style rather than innovating - like classical musicians who want to keep playing Bach, or people who want to play dixieland or swing or bebop, or old time music, or early bluegrass vocal duets (like the Monroe brothers), etc. I don't see anything wrong with somebody asking Miles "why don't you play the way you used to" whether it was posed as a question (as to why he changed his style over time) or if it was stated as a preference. People can prefer traditional styles to more modern ones, and there is nothing wrong with them. It is just wrong if they decide that their preference for traditional styles allows them to proclaim that non-traditional styles are not-legitimate. They might be able to say that the player of a modern style might not fit into a traditional oriented band because the resulting sounds would not be legitimate if the goal was one of maintaining the traditional sound, and this would be perfectly OK as far as I see it. For instance, Wynton Marsalis is a gifted musician who can play traditional styles and modern styles, but he prefers to not mix too much non-traditional elements with traditional when his goal is one of preserving the traditional elements of the music. I do think that he has tended to be opinionated and less than accepting of more modern sounds (even though he can play them), and this led to some interesting verbal sparring with Herbie Hancock (who has fine musical credentials) about what is jazz (much like the "what is bluegrass" threads that crop up here now and then.

In summary, I think there should be room for purists who want to preserve "the tradition" (as long as they don't go around proclaiming that everything else is invalid) as well as for innovators (who also shouldn't go around saying that traditionalists are just "old farts" who can't play or appreciate anything other than traditional styles).

Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/02/2010:  02:22:23

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I agree wholeheartedly with the last two posts. People got to play the way they play. Ryan can play! Pat can play too! They don't play the same way - even better!

I particularly agree with the above statement:

"People can prefer traditional styles to more modern ones, and there is nothing wrong with them. It is just wrong if they decide that their preference for traditional styles allows them to proclaim that non-traditional styles are not-legitimate."

You can't be somebody else, you got to be whom you are and play in your chosen context or contexts, and these things can change or evolve. Style can be mercurial and contextual. Artistic license has to be respected; likewise, choice - that is, control over one's artistry has to be respected and maintained.

Likewise, you can't tell or expect somebody to be or play like somebody else, you got to let them them be whom they are.

It's when people forget common sense boundaries and common courtesies and get wrapped up in some ideal or schpeel and expect others - who may have no interest in it - to comform to it that they become invasive and annoying.

There's no accounting for taste. There's no accounting for other people's bad taste either!

In sum, to each his own and to each his zone.

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 02/02/2010 14:00:00

stormoveroklahoma - Posted - 02/02/2010:  11:33:36

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That says it all Tom. Thanks for your thoughts. You wrote them out beautifully.

I believe banjo is evolving so fast that even we can't seem to keep up with all the changes and differences in new playing techniques. Fun time to be alive and be a banjo player.

Storm

play it from the heart

Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/02/2010:  14:01:33

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Hey, what did the umpire in baseball say? "I call 'em as I see 'em." LOL

renofan52 - Posted - 02/02/2010:  15:11:40

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ryan Cavanaugh

All I was saying is that the term "Chromatic" doesn't do justice to the banjoists who play that style. It puts a silly label on them. There should be a better suited term like "modern." Have you ever heard of "Chromatic" style guitar? I haven't...nor have any guitar players. For instance: When describing Pat Cloud's banjo playing to a trumpeter who has never heard of him, one would sound miseducated to the trumpeter if they were to describe him as a "chromatic" player. I would simply describe Pat as a bebop banjo player.

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i understand what you are saying, and i must agree that chromatics is a derogatory term. The one thing i hate most is going to a jam and playing a MELODIC break, involving none of the chromatic notes outside the scale, except maybe the flattened 7th on a song like Gold Rush, which is a fiddle tune, and then everybody looking at me like im the devil and whispering behind my back "He's one of them chromatic players, that aint the way so and so played it with bill monroe," or the classic "let's get out of here before he goes all hippy on us." sorry to get off of topic.

On topic however, is a question i must ask. Is Pat's new book going to be more jazz oriented. I sure hope so. I love key to the 5 string, but i was hoping that there would be some more stuff in there besides pentatonics. Great book in either case. I will probably end up buying the new book to no matter what.

pearcemusic - Posted - 02/02/2010:  20:07:06

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quote:

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Originally posted by renofan52

quote:

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i understand what you are saying, and i must agree that chromatics is a derogatory term. The one thing i hate most is going to a jam and playing a MELODIC break, involving none of the chromatic notes outside the scale, except maybe the flattened 7th on a song like Gold Rush, which is a fiddle tune, and then everybody looking at me like im the devil and whispering behind my back "He's one of them chromatic players, that aint the way so and so played it with bill monroe," or the classic "let's get out of here before he goes all hippy on us." sorry to get off of topic.

On topic however, is a question i must ask. Is Pat's new book going to be more jazz oriented. I sure hope so. I love key to the 5 string, but i was hoping that there would be some more stuff in there besides pentatonics. Great book in either case. I will probably end up buying the new book to no matter what.

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It'll be a good one I'm sure ... we are in line for it ... Molly is signed up for a lesson via skype tomorrow night .... she is very excited .... working on Chick's "Spain" for her 2nd semester juries at college .....

Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/03/2010:  02:25:25

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As regards curmudgeonly purists and backbiters, here's a funny story, related to this topic in a roundabout way: Fiddler Kenny Kosek (of Country Cooking Rounder 0003 fame) was playing swingy fiddle breaks with the Wretched Refuse String Band at a famous Irish club (The Eagle Tavern, now The Village Idiot) in the West Village, Manhattan, playing through an amplifier at a relatively low volume. A customer took great exception to (A) Kenny plugging into an amp (How dare he!), and (B) not playing straight bluegrass fiddle (hippy).

When that person yelled out about Kenny's use of an amp, Kenny just turned up. When that same person and a few others complained louder, Kenny turned up more. When the critic got up and left, Kenny turned up even more. When his friends got up and left, he turned up more. When the band then became annoyed with Kenny (real or feigned) because other patrons were leaving too, Kenny turned up again. When a mass exodus of paying customers ensued, Kenny turned up louder and regaled them out the door, effectively clearing the room of critics and fans alike, playing faster and faster, louder and louder, one break more insane than the last.

When the band gave Kenny an ultimatum to turn down or they too would leave, Kenny turned up even more, really cranking it and lashing into it with reckless abandon. When the band did walk off stage in apparent disgust (or part of the comedy skit), Kenny, unfazed, turned all the way up to 10 - no sorry, 11. He played the rest of the show by himself, improvising jazz, bebop, bluegrass and OT fiddle tunes for one person left in the room, who was encouraging and applauding him loudly after every fearless virtuosic feat and act of unabashed musical heroism. Only in New York City. Haha!

It was a proud moment for the human spirit, guerilla theatre, creative control and artistic license - not being bullied by critics. It didn't hurt Kenny, aka "Broadway Kenny", becoming the stuff of local legend in the NYC bluegrass/OT scene. Meanwhile he was the most recorded session fiddler around, winning awards for his session work, lending his talents to TV commercials, films, industrials, record projects, comedy sketches on the Citizen Kafka Radio show with actor John Goodman (Buddy Fortune) - you name it. Kenny Kosek was also appearing in Broadway productions such as Roger Miller's Big River.

Nobody could catcall Kenny and tell him how to play onstage. The critics and oh-so-precious backbiters be damned! It all could have been staged ... is the thing, but it really happened!

See a much later version of the band here, having a ball as usual: Barry Mitterhoff (mandolin) Kenny Kosek (fiddle) Jon Sholle (electric guitar) Citizen Kafka (fiddle) Larry Eagle (drums and percussion) Bob Jones (guitar) Marty Confurius (bass), and Marty Cutler (banjo).

Stick around for Barry Mitterhoff's very melodic mandolin break at around 3:54. This is not for purists and that's entertainment!

Go here for sketches from The Citizen Kafka show.

Anyway, never mind the petty critics, purists and backbiters. Waste of space. };^>

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 02/03/2010 12:28:54

Tom Hanway - Posted - 02/03/2010:  12:30:30

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That's a great title and it sounds like a classic, especially coming from Pat Cloud.

Mirek Patek - Posted - 02/03/2010:  13:20:03

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thebluegrassblog.com/straight-...at-cloud/

martycutler - Posted - 02/05/2010:  11:15:46

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tom Hanway

As regards curmudgeonly purists and backbiters, here's a funny story, related to this topic in a roundabout way: Fiddler Kenny Kosek (of Country Cooking Rounder 0003 fame) was playing swingy fiddle breaks with the Wretched Refuse String Band at a famous Irish club (The Eagle Tavern, now The Village Idiot) in the West Village, Manhattan, playing through an amplifier at a relatively low volume. A customer took great exception to (A) Kenny plugging into an amp (How dare he!), and (B) not playing straight bluegrass fiddle (hippy).

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I honestly can't verify this particular incident, as there were so many Wretched Refuse gigs like that, replete with mock interpersonal psychodramas acted out by the band.

One of my favorites was the night we closed down our tenure at a club called Broadway Charlie's many years ago. The complete ensemble was there, including Matt Glaser and Bela. We had grown tired of what was essentially a low-paying, hostile gig, and it was time to put it out of its misery the hard way.

In one evening we:

1) Kicked off one of Andy Statman's tunes about illicit sexual acts performed on the high seas... eight times in a row!

2) Performed several distorted renditions of the Beverly Hillbillies (whose chords were exactly the same as the former tune) in a row.

3) Played Follow the Leader, with Bela and myself playing the single-string section a half-step apart for a truly tooth-grinding effect. At which point, Richie Shulberg—our fearless leader—started doing one of his psychotic go-go dancer routines, and caught a lock of his shoulder-length hair in my banjo's peghead, dragging me to the stage floor with him. When I recovered and stood up, I found a hefty hank of hair stuck between the first and second string tuners.

4) Played The Little Girl and the Dreadful Snake very straightforwardly... with the exception of Matt Glaser running through the audience, acting out the part of the little girl with lots of screaming. From the stage, I saw Matt jump onto a billiards table in the middle of a game, and was amazed to view the players grab him gently by each elbow, and lift him back onto the floor.

5) Roger Mason calling out the club owner in a most unflattering way.

Sure enough, by the end of the evening, Wretched Refuse had been fired; our work there was done.

Cheers,

Marty

Ryan Cavanaugh - Posted - 02/05/2010:  22:55:33

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I miss it up north...