On balance, did it save lives?

Dunno*.... maybe that depends on who or what news source (?) one trusts [if "trust" isn't too strong of a word] .... and since the victors get to write the history ... ???

Geez, the more things change, the more they stay the same???

* the skeptic in me says: "probably not."

Whether it saved lives or not---and it probably just changed who all died---but either way it seems the very definition of a War Crime. Although I'm not sure that term has any real meaning anymore, if it ever did. It does seem rather foolish to have Rules for the conduct of War, as if it were a sporting event. And that photo does remind me of recent photos of Gaza.

hatefulness at it's epitome--the way being hateful is enjoyed ,--proves we as a species --are still  bipeds in a cave --

The best we can do is look down upon inflicting pain as an enjoyment be it physival or mental--

however we all-- will find ourselves doing it--in our enjoyment of life --

being fair and  equal  in non war times is a starter 

my opinion I ask no agreement

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Originally posted by Owen

Dunno*.... maybe that depends on who or what news source (?) one trusts [if "trust" isn't too strong of a word] .... and since the victors get to write the history ... ???

Geez, the more things change, the more they stay the same???

* the skeptic in me says: "probably not."

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I certainly think that both bombs convinced the Japanese to surrender. Since then, they have not invaded nor fought anyone (at least to my knowledge!)

oh yes--it had to be done--just a shame we didn't have it five years earlier on december 8th-or maybe december 1st if we knew what was going to happen--
but still I think-- we should think of the little children in Hiroshima or those that really were only guilty of being born and wanted no part of the conquest

If we had been living 81 years ago while our young men and women were giving their lives daily to win a war it would be hard to not want anything to happen that might speed an end to the conflict and hopefully save as many lives as possible. Very difficult to say while living today what was the best or right thing to do in a different time under circumstances most of us living today had no experience of.

Bobby

Reminds me of the old saw “when you’re up to your arse in alligators it’s a little late to start thinking about draining the swamp”.

If the bomb had not been available, an invasion of Japan would have been needed. Some have argued that that's not true. The fact that Japan did not surrender after the first use of the bomb suggests to me that an invasion would have been needed. Truman had seen war up close when he served in the infantry in World War I. He had a weapon that could end the conflict quickly, and he used it without regret.

More importantly, I think that it may have been fortuitous that the bomb was used when only one country possessed it. It unambiguously demonstrated just how horrible the weapon is. If it had been used later, after the ensuing nuclear proliferation, a world-wide nuclear holocaust may have resulted.

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Originally posted by RB3

If the bomb had not been available, an invasion of Japan would have been needed. Some have argued that that's not true. The fact that Japan did not surrender after the first use of the bomb suggests to me that an invasion would have been needed. Truman had seen war up close when he served in the infantry in World War I. He had a weapon that could end the conflict quickly, and he used it without regret.

More importantly, I think that it may have been fortuitous that the bomb was used when only one country possessed it. It unambiguously demonstrated just how horrible the weapon is. If it had been used later, after the ensuing nuclear proliferation, a world-wide nuclear holocaust may have resulted.

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You have it exactly right.  Although I may not any more insight than everyone else here, I do have dozens on documents about the war in the Pacific that were given to me by my sister-in-law whose uncle was the Commanding General of the 1st Marine Air Wing and then later in the War Commanding General of all Marine Air in the Pacific.  Many of the documents are "Secret" and "Top Secret" and concern the conduct of the war in that theater.  First and foremost in most of the letters is the extraordinary care that the Marine brass had for their troops and preserving life was chief among them.  Unfortunately, the Japanese did not necessarily have that same mindset.  I don't think they valued life like the Americans and our allies.  I forget the estimate, but the predicted casualty toll for a Japanese invasion was monumental and completely unacceptable to Truman.

I certainly agree that it needed to be done--
and when the young are sent off to war --any one muttering limited casualties --should be admonished severely--
to hell with the aggressors--no limited involvement --do with all we have to keep our blood from being spilled

Boots on the ground? As a last resort nowadays, no? Big automated weapons do the job now

There ain't any part of war that's good except a cease fire/surrender.

My dad was a 19 year old farm boy from Louisiana in the Philippines when that happened. They had built up troops to invade Japan for a 2nd D-day that didn’t happen. After he died 10 years ago we were cleaning out the house and found a box labeled “junk” which had his WW2 stuff in there untouched since the 50s when the house was built.

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Originally posted by Tim Ogden

My dad was a 19 year old farm boy from Louisiana in the Philippines when that happened. They had built up troops to invade Japan for a 2nd D-day that didn’t happen. After he died 10 years ago we were cleaning out the house and found a box labeled “junk” which had his WW2 stuff in there untouched since the 50s when the house was built.

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That's really neat stuff!

i am going to say it saved tens of thousands of lives on both sides... the allied forces were determined and the japanese forces were never going to give in to ground invasion. they would have fought to last man ... it took something like the bomb to change their mindset.. so in the final count ,,, yes it saved lives.

I've been to Hiroshima and have seen the Genbaku Dome, a preserved site that is the remains of a building that wasn't completely demolished by the bomb.  It sits a on a few acres, in its same state as after the explosion.  It is a solemn and sacred place.

Common estimates after the war indicated that about 80,000 Japanese were killed on the day of the explosion, and another 80,000 or so died later of burns and radiation sickness.  The initial estimates from the military were quite a bit lower.

I don't see anything in the above postings that hasn't been batted around back and forth for the last 81 years.

Taking a side-step, do you think nuclear power plants could be built safe nowadays? We desperately need “clean” power in this crazy computer age.

what to do with that waste that stays dangerous for centuries - should be looked at--my computer runs fine as is I don't any more from the internet than I already have--so why would I need them to have more storage --a little more muscle power burning off calories is what is needed

I had s friend, s chem Ph.D., who worked st the Hanford WA nuclear facility on safe disposal of nuclear waste. After a few years he decided it couldn’t be done and took his career in a different direction.

It is probably now cheap enough to send the nuclear waste into deep space. Nuclear totally solves the carbon/energy problem so it will be demonized by those who see that "problem" as a means for totalitarian control. But if you want clean energy, if you want no more fossil fuels, there is your solution, and no other exists at the moment in the real world.

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Originally posted by banjo bill-e

It is probably now cheap enough to send the nuclear waste into deep space. Nuclear totally solves the carbon/energy problem so it will be demonized by those who see that "problem" as a means for totalitarian control. But if you want clean energy, if you want no more fossil fuels, there is your solution, and no other exists at the moment in the real world.

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You ever see a rocket blow up on a launch pad...?

Probly not be good with a nuclear waste payload....

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Originally posted by Tim Ogden

My dad was a 19 year old farm boy from Louisiana in the Philippines when that happened. They had built up troops to invade Japan for a 2nd D-day that didn’t happen. After he died 10 years ago we were cleaning out the house and found a box labeled “junk” which had his WW2 stuff in there untouched since the 50s when the house was built.

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19 years old n..2 extra ..rockers....

Lotta responsibility..fer a young man..

Probly grew up...quickly....

take your wheelbarrow and shovel go over to chernobyl and dig up the ashes ==put it on your local rocket ship--then over to japan where that one flooded--dip that murky water --up with a bucket--rest assured it will be done with exact fully thought out ways after that==by the great thinkers in charge--

The burning of wood to make steam --would not put nature in a fix ,that It does not know how to handle--we might have to --curtail our desire to manicure/ change the environment--beyond the needed space to stay healthy-

less use of our things that make life easier-- would make more work --for the masses --We could quit running cargo back and forth --and dumping in the ocean -- discarding no telling what, when vessels get out in the middle incognito--maybe a couple of spent nuclear gadgets-
my opinion i ask no agreement==

A fishing buddy years back was married to a Japanese lady who survived Hiroshima. She was at the water somewhere washing clothes? on the edge of town. She ended up marrying a GI, moved to Canada. Divorced him and married my friend. She was older than him. Nice lady but apparently never would speak of the wwar and never returned. Can't imagine her trauma.