You don't need a scoop. The technique is hard to get your head around at first. Don't blame your banjo!

The "scoop" as we currently know it (excluding aesthetic designs of "early rimmed banjos") for playing in the position and method of Kyle Creed (despite the fact that Creed did not use, nor make banjos with "scoops") was developed by Bob Flesher in 1965.

Somehow people seemed to manage for over 100 years playing in the orignial "banjo style"/"stroke style"/"thimble style" without a "scoop".

"Scoops" must be part of the "modern playability" I keep being told about (opposed to "traditional playability").

Dude! I'm about your age. Playing since 1979. I've tried and tried. I wish you the Best of Luck!

You have to start real slow. Tom Collins. Banjo Quest on you tube is excellent.

I started learning on a bluegrass resonator banjo and was able to get the hang of it. I still struggle mixing in up-picking but most of the songs I play don't involve that.

I do have a couple openbacks with scoops and they help in two ways. Higher action which I think helps with drop-thumb (might be psychological?) and tone. Without a scoop you want to play as close to the rim as possible.

I started playing Scruggs style in 1979, I switched to clawhammer style in 2019, I tried on my own for a few years, and I struggled. Then I started lessons with a local teacher, first lesson he got me to play the standard bum dirty, since then I’m loving it! Take a few lessons, it’s the best investment you’ll make.

Struggle...!
I must look like n feel like a Doofus..trying this with any coordination..

Looks simple but it is not..at least to me... :0/

All advice is appreciated.. :0)

I will keep peckin at it tho... :0)

I also had a difficult time at first, learning the bum ditty type picking, but once you get the rhythm down and get the fingers working, it suddenly isn't that difficult. I found, for me, that it was easier to use the thumb and middle finger rather than index. You might see if using a different finger for the up-pick will help you.

Keep after it, you'll eventually get that light bulb moment and it will be easier.

Scope and resonator/open back has nothing to do with the clawhammer technique, so you can play clawhammer on your Bluegrass banjo. The sound depends more on the banjoist than on the banjo!

There are special clawhammer picks, but I think God created us with nails on the outside of the fingers so we could play clawhammer without picks!

Keep at it, everyday. It is like riding a bicycle, once you get it you never forget it. But you gots to pay your dues.

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Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

Struggle...!
I must look like n feel like a Doofus..trying this with any coordination..  Nope, it is a different pace and philosophy.  2F/3F/clawhammer styles are commonly used to support, echo, fill-in and showcase the vocalist or melody maker.  It means we get more active-play-time with the other instruments/vocalists, as long as we stick to the 'non-compete agreement' that is embedded in these styles.

Looks simple but it is not..at least to me... :0/

All advice is appreciated.. :0)

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Choose a tune that you know, really know, and is well supported (audio/video/notation/tab/lyrics).

Start there and be patient with yourself.

No need for a scoop…on any level. Allows one to develop bad playing habits.

Like you, I started out fingerpicking Scruggs style and related players. Started playing Clawhammer/Frailing/knockdown or whatever it’s called when I was 15 or so…some (good G-d!!!) 50 years ago. Scruggs style was and is an effort for me, the Clawhammer, real easy.

Everyone is different in how they learn and what comes easy to them. What I do know, lots and lots of play time and practice gets you where you need to be, so don’t give up. If it was easy, everyone would be playing banjo instead of guitars…

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Originally posted by Alvin Conder

No need for a scoop…on any level. Allows one to develop bad playing habits.

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Hi Alvin and the rest of the community,

The common bad playing habit that I am aware of is not using all of the left hand fretting fingers. 

What are some other examples of a bad banjo habits in general that aren't actually "ages and stages" stuff?

And specifically, what bad playing habits does a scoop enable?  (straight question, not an argument pro/con scoops)

Cheers, Kam

From what I understand, the scoop gives a clearance which allows for a lower string action when playing with the right hand over the fretboard. It does seem to make that a bit easier, but they aren't necessary by any means (not to mention completely useless if you intend on playing over the banjo's head). People here tend to have very strong opinions against them which I assume is because they're a modern development that were never a feature in older banjos. I don't have any strong views on them one way or another, but I personally would rather have the high frets intact since I don't limit myself to playing one particular style on any of my banjos.

Hope this Eureaka moment comes bloody soon... :0/

Doofus here...

Thanks for the Tom Collins hint!
Never knew the difference from drop thumb and clawhammer.

Good Lord!

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Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

Hope this Eureaka moment comes bloody soon... :0/

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Nope, it takes weeks and months to change an established groove. 

The slap and tickle cloppity clop is very different from the rolling wall of sound.

Put your 'chosen' tune on replay in the background and listen to it all day for as many weeks as it takes... 

Work at playing the chosen tune in the morning, listen to it all day and work at it just before sleep; repeat until sorta-dun and move to the next one.

quote:

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Originally posted by pinenut

quote:

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Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

Hope this Eureaka moment comes bloody soon... :0/

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Nope, it takes weeks and months to change an established groove. 

The slap and tickle cloppity clop is very different from the rolling wall of sound.

Put your 'chosen' tune on replay in the background and listen to it all day for as many weeks as it takes... 

Work at playing the chosen tune in the morning, listen to it all day and work at it just before sleep; repeat until sorta-dun and move to the next one.

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Ok....

I'll just keep Doofussing along till I get there...

Course..if i aquire..a.. banjo..
Purely...set up...for claw hammer..
I might do better...

Gotta practice that line...
As so I can deliver it ..good..to me better half... ;0)

I don’t think a scoop is necessary. I like having access to the upper frets and with a bit of practice you can learn to play over the neck if you really want to.
I have an older banjo with a lot of hooks, and even if I did have a scoop, it would have to angle my arm uncomfortably to avoid a hook, so it wasn’t worth it for me. I just play near the top of the head and am happy.

It's the thumb part..

I know to land on the 5th string every time..
But having a hard time to get it to ring..
Trying to not use me wrist ..n use me whole arm..

I have a woddie archtop banjo..that seems to play ..."better"..fer me...
Playing close to the arch groove..

I think i mute the 5Th string with the bottom fleshy part of me hand..

quote:

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Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

It's the thumb part..
I know to land on the 5th string every time..  But having a hard time to get it to ring..  meh, land it where it can until it does.  Thump the head with your thumb (beat) and play melody/skip notes (finger) for an alternative practice (fun, valid technique)

Trying to not use me wrist ..n use me whole arm..  The wrist is very active with snap and thumb placement, even if the power comes from the elbow (which is also occupied pinning the armrest)

I think i mute the 5Th string with the bottom fleshy part of me hand..  this should go away as speed picks up (cock the wrist into more of an 'evil' claw, tiny change)

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This is all normal and you are making good progress.  The fact that you're noticing these things is good.  Give your brain and body time to sort it out.