Loon - Posted - 04/13/2007:  19:42:36

Ok, So I'm just learning to play clawhammer, and I started from some little book someone got me. I misunderstood the explanation of how to do the 'bum-ditty', which has led to me doing something i'm not sure is all together bad, but im wondering if it might cause me trouble down the road.

Here's what I've been doing (please don't shoot me!) I pluck the first string UP with my index finger, for the BUM part. Then, I use JUST my index finger for the down stroke of the DIT. I play the -Y as normal, normal thimb movement. Sometimes I even plant my ring finger when I do this. But, I wanted to know if there can be repurcussions from using just the index and thumb without making a claw fist or whatever, and if there's anything bad about plucking up on the BUM.

Thanks for the feedback I'm sure is coming

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 04/13/2007:  20:05:19

Basically it is legal. You are not playing clawhammer by current definitions however. There is in fact a rhythmic difference that is quite noticable between what your are doing (a variant of Seeger's Basic Strum) and clawhammer which is all down strokes. THere is a form of "loose clawhammer" in vogue now that doesnt really get the rhythm either but since you are asking I assume you are looking for the real red meat of the style.
One of the things I did with students who had a lot of guitar experience when they came to the banjo was teach them your method (the down strum was with the Middle finger however) and use it to show them tunes while giving them the most basic clawhammer down stroke to practice separately and without any left hand added. This way they could learn tunes, make progress, have fun, play along etc, before ethey could do the main clawhammer motion which does take some time to make function properly.
I've described the clawhammer exercise many times and have to do something else now so just click through on my name and look at some of the threads where I've given my exercises. If you can't find any, I'll be back later.


The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

savzac - Posted - 04/13/2007:  20:47:14

I play 3 finger style but would love to learn clamhammer and I have had a heck of a time when trying. I was a guitar player when I was young and then I learned 3 finger style for a year and then tried clawhammer. Whew! I got advice on here and I can not keep myself from doing some kind of upstroke. Mine is a little different than yours Loon but I upstroke none the less, it's such a habit that I just stick to 3 finger style. Every now and then I will take the picks off but I don't practice that much because I would never play that way in front of anyone because it is not the correct way of playing that style. I'm very curious about what oldwoodchuck wrote though about (a variant of Seeger's Basic Strum) I'm going to do some reading on that, maybe it will fit me more!

«SávZåç»

chip arnold - Posted - 04/13/2007:  20:56:38

SávZåç There are several OT finger styles you might try which are not usually done with picks. You can hear some 2-finger picking on my BHO homepage. And there are lovely OT 3-finger styles as well as 2-finger styles very different from mine.

Play with a plan
Chip

savzac - Posted - 04/13/2007:  21:54:59

Thanks Chip, I just want to learn some kind of Old Timey banjo style, shoot I was born and raised in West Virginia and I'm ashamed to not be able to play the old way.

«SávZåç»

chip arnold - Posted - 04/13/2007:  22:04:39

There are some of the very best OT festivals in W. Va. too. Including Clifftop which is pretty much like OT Mecca! And Fiddler's Grove in Union Grove N.C. is coming up soon. It's Bluegrass and OT both. There are lots of such festers near you where you can get with a ton of OT people if you'd like.

Play with a plan
Chip

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 04/13/2007:  23:00:59

I'm hoping, hat by the end of the weekend I'll have figured out youtube well enough to post my "advanced" clawhammer videos - the first of which is about getting the basic clawhammer stroke right by using a bit of rocket science.
I haven't even tried yet but I have the feeling this is going to be a messy process. Every time I try to learn how to do somethign new on the computer things turn ugly very fast.

The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

oldtimeterry - Posted - 04/13/2007:  23:37:44

If you do figure it out, please link us!
Videos are easier for me to follow than text on a forum. Looking forward to any instructional videos you decide to upload.

haiku - Posted - 04/14/2007:  03:47:37

If there's anything I learn in music, and if there's anything I learn here about the banjo, that's there is no wrong way.

I mean, you can play the darn thing with one foot and your teeth, if it's right for you

Then, it's a matter of choice: you can play old-time music and stick to your up and down patttern. But you can learn the "traditionnal" clawhammer if you feel it's "righter" - and it's not really that hard: if I can do it, everyone can!

-----
http://www.myspace.com/hobohaiku

RCCOOK - Posted - 04/14/2007:  06:47:46

What your doing was known to me as the Carolina Lick. As Tony said unless you down pick, it something other than clawhammer. Many years ago I started out using this as I was a guitar player and three finger banjo player. It just takes practice to do it clawhammer style. If you want to do it the other way, the only one that cares is you. Its all good............Rod

Even the blind squirrel finds an occasional nut, I found a banjo!!!

stringbeaner - Posted - 04/14/2007:  19:00:33

I have found the "frail" style of clahammer totally easy but I think it's because that's what my Grandaddy played a lot of along with other clawhammer styses.

Here is a description of the "basic" frail style--->
Make a loose fist with your right hand....(over the strings)
1. let your first or middle finger drop slightly then drop your loose fist with the chosen finger lower than the rest of the fist part and strike the string with the back of your fingernail.
2. Raise your hand maintaining the same position and strike another string OR brush several strings with the same finger.
3. As you raise your fist from this downstroke, catch the 5th string with the ball (or tip) of your thumb. There you go....Bum Ditty!

See if that does anything for you. Also, watch as many OT picker as you can, go to workshops (ought to be some at some of the nearby festivals) and listen a lot!

banjobutte

savzac - Posted - 04/14/2007:  19:19:39

That second part is where my trouble begins, I have to hit something on the way back up...

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oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 04/14/2007:  19:38:38

Lets start by gettting the basic frail stroke right.

As the hand comes down to make the frail the Thumb comes down with it. It is all one unit. When the finger hits the string the thumb is coming to rest on the 5th string AT THE SAME TIME. The position of the hand should end up below the strings held up from dropping into your lap only by the thumb against the 5th string.

Now the thumb 'snaps' forward against the 5th string and that motion actually propels the hand back up into playing position again. The snap creates a "for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction" effect which sends the whole hand (thumb and all) flying upward and puts you back into position for the next downstroke (frail).

Bringing the thumb against the 5th (or other) string is as important as the downstroke in frailing, and is, unfortunately, not adequately explained in most books. Not getting this Action/Reaction right leads to a lot of not very rhythmic frailing that slows down the beginner and in fact creates a lot of people who think they have been doing clawhammer for years but can't figure out why they never seem to get that driving rhythm that powers a stringband.

I have friends who say you might have to learn it wrong before you can do it right which is why I consider my video to be "advanced". I really do have an aversion to computers though. Still I'll be working on it tonight. after the house is quiet and I might not find everythign so confusing. After all I did manage to learn to post text here - although I've never had any luck with either pictures or sound files. I gotta get it some day, right?



The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

stringbeaner - Posted - 04/14/2007:  19:50:15

As you come down for the downstrokes, let your thumb rest on top of the skin next to the 5th string but don't pick it until after the 2nd (down) stroke(on the way up)

Is this any clearer or is it getting messier.

I reckon I'm gonna haf to figger out how to stick a video on this thing. HMMMMmmmmm.......!

banjobutte

Loon - Posted - 04/15/2007:  03:30:54

Thanks for your advice, all. As for video links, here is a good instructional video on how to do traditional clawhammer stroke. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWaW4C5z_Ek

I've tried it, and I can do it, I just don't find it as enjoyable. But maybe while I'm practicing in my 'carolina lick' form, i'll throw this in every now and then just so I kind of learn it.