jsinjin - Posted - 10/02/2025:  09:26:52

Man, I had a friend come over this morning who is part of my workout crew. He just picked up mandolin and for all disclosure he does have 30 plus years of music from drums to guitar and bass as an audio engineer. But he has had his mandolin for a couple of weeks. We tried to play together the song cluck old hen which I can play in my sleep and it was horrifying. He picked it up in seconds and I was collletely lost. I couldn’t get through a single measure. I had no idea what was coming next, the mandolin was loud and overshadowed what I was trying to think of next. It was like there was no context, no way to even guess what note I was on, no way to figure out what part of the song I was in. I finally just put it away. This is just not for me at all. I was almost nauseous trying to keep my head in what I was doing. I don’t think anything I could do or practice could ever overcome the significant confusion, lack of context and total gap between what note and finger I’m trying to play vs what he was doing so naturally.

lapsteel - Posted - 10/02/2025:  09:39:16

Don’t worry. Once you make it over that first hurdle, you’ll be on your way. It took me awhile in 1991 without the videos on the www. Just keep at it….you’ll be fine.

pinenut - Posted - 10/02/2025:  09:45:49

John,



This is normal; you've only been playing for a year or so.  Our eyes start to open at this stage.



Powerful frustration is why this learning time/stage is high risk.

It will pass,,, slowly.

Edited by - pinenut on 10/02/2025 09:47:25

reubenstump - Posted - 10/02/2025:  09:56:35

And yes, mandolins tend to be loud.

Culloden - Posted - 10/02/2025:  10:05:13

Now, imagine being a fiddle player in a jam session with four or five guitar players who can't keep time.

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 10/02/2025:  10:07:53

Playing with others is difficult at first, if you’re more used to playing solo.

heavy5 - Posted - 10/02/2025:  10:23:10

John , Don't let a few mistakes get to you , charge on , be open minded --- conquer the tune & get to the end & keeping in time w/ a feeling of "I've got this sucker now " even w/ a few boogers ! Keeping in time can be more important than getting every note right especially in accompaniment !

Owen - Posted - 10/02/2025:  10:48:11

I'm confused John. Though shifting gears is fine, I was under the impression that your goal was enjoyment from practicing/mastering long sequences/patterns of notes solo and that playing with others wasn't even on the radar.

I guess I'm a bit of an oddball when it comes to the "...carry on, things will eventually fall into place" credo.  Things didn't fall into place for me, and I'm okay with that.  I figure some of us have "it" and some of us don't.    I still play/practice most every day, but musically speaking I guess I'm the guy that, "peaked in high school,"  though I do believe I could achieve a bit more if I could get my questions answered in a manner that I could absorb/internalize.

[And that's ^^ not a call for help, just my c'est la vie observation.]

Fwiw, all of the foregoing is IMNSHumbleO.  

Texasbanjo - Posted - 10/02/2025:  11:09:39

It is normal to feel lost, as others have said. I remember when I first went to a jam. I had no idea what key they were in, what chord structure would be played and I didn't even know most of the songs. That's frustration with a capital F! Take it slow and easy. Ask your mandolin friend to call out the chord he's playing and you just strum your banjo, don't try to pick the melody. Get used to strumming chords on songs. It gets easier and easier.



If you want to try to play lead, have the mandolin picker just vamp the chords to the song and ignore what he's doing, at least at first. As you get used to the sound of another instrument, your frustration will abate.



Trying to play melody with another instrument isn't going to be easy and in most genres, two instruments don't normally play melody together. One plays melody, others play rhythm.

Edited by - Texasbanjo on 10/02/2025 11:10:26

KCJones - Posted - 10/02/2025:  11:11:57

If it makes you feel better, Bela Fleck thinks he's not very good at banjo. And Billy Strings things he's just okay at guitar. You probably did a lot better than you think.



Remember that root of "playing music" is "playing". You are playing. Ya know, like kids do in a field. It's not a performance or competition. Just play and laugh and have fun.

banjered - Posted - 10/02/2025:  11:43:00

Sounds like the mando player wanted to run away with it. In that situation I would have listened to him, tapped my foot to get his timing speed, and sang the song in my head and only then jump into playing when I knew where and what speed he was traveling. If that still did not work out, who cares? banjered

banjomobob - Posted - 10/02/2025:  11:52:16

Life's short, no need to do what's not fun.

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 10/02/2025:  13:08:02

Perhaps it was that his *version* of the tune did not mesh with yours.  If you go on YouTube and check out even a few videos of "Cluck Old Hen- clawhammer banjo", you will see how many ways people play the tune.  Once you add in fiddler's versions, well...      My own version of COH uses gDGBD as opposed to gDGCD, and with the fretless nuances is quite different from what I'd think of as the "standard" version.  Were I to jam with someone, I'd have to modify my setting on the spot.

Don't be discouraged. I've been at it since 1969 and there are folks with whose playing mine will not work.

Jamming with others requires flexibility, and usually on the fly.  This all takes time and experience.

This music is the product of an older more patient culture.

banjopaolo - Posted - 10/02/2025:  13:32:04

Try to find every occasion to play with others, at first it can be frustrating, but it’s the best school in my view, at first maybe it is better to play easy comping… but soon you’ll be able to upgrade your playing!

Nopix - Posted - 10/02/2025:  13:34:18

Well if you're still reading, how come he couldn't play along to you?
I try like h@ll to play along with a newbie. I consider it my job to jibe with the person struggling. Even in a jam. I'm not gonna show out. I'm gonna try like h@ll to make music. That means trying to mix. What good did it do to blow your doors off? I do know the type. It kinda upsets me he couldn't slow down.

banjo bill-e - Posted - 10/02/2025:  13:39:14

If you can play it in your sleep then you can play it with your eyes closed, so play your version through first with your eyes closed, forgetting all about him, then let him join in and try to play with your version. You seem to be doing a lot of thinking here, but it's impossible to think and play at the same time, so just play and let your buddy do the thinking!

Nopix - Posted - 10/02/2025:  13:40:25

Make an mp3 playing along to a metronome set wherever you want. I'll make a copy and play along to it. Put my copy right back here.

Edited by - Nopix on 10/02/2025 13:42:17

dbrooks - Posted - 10/02/2025:  16:57:42

I'm in the camp with those who think your mandolin player may have contributed to your difficulty.  Two people relatively new to their instruments may still lack a clear leader who set the tempo and plays a clear melody.  Perhaps if you played through the tune and asked if he played something like that, you might have found some mismatches.  (Just playing on your own in front of someone else can be challenging in itself.)  You may not think you're ready to participate in an active jam, but that is a great way to find your way and make progress in your playing.  As Sherry said, it may be learning and playing chords to be begin with.  You can also learn if your arrangement of a tune will match up well with what the jam is playing.  You may discover adjustments to your arrangement that will create a better match.

David

tdennis - Posted - 10/02/2025:  20:02:23

There is a strange disconnect in your narrative. You know this tune in your sleep, & yet seem to have been completely discombobulated when accompanied by a mandolinist. Did it ever occur to you to stop the session & communicate about some sort of an arrangement of the piece?

campandstrum - Posted - 10/02/2025:  22:19:55

Some musicians are hard to play along with even if they are good players. If they are just choppin on the off beat it is pretty easy to follow. If they are playing the melody in a straight forward way that is pretty easy to follow. If they are playing lots of notes quickly, especially if are not playing the exact melody (even if it works for the song) it can be hard to follow.

banjoy - Posted - 10/03/2025:  05:11:18

You absolutely did the correct thing to put your instrument down when you hit a wall in frustration. To keep hitting that wall only increases the frustration and you're learning to be frustrated then, and not a musician. Do something else with the instrument for a little while, learn a new tune, or lick. Stay away from the point of frustration, but what you'll find is these things kind of work themselves out in the background, often without your awareness of it. As others said, this is normal, just part of learning and growing. I 'll bet every musician went through this one way or another.

As far as getting lost in a tune, I remember decades ago at some jam camp (Tennessee Banjo Institute in 1988) where someone asked John Hartford something like "when you're playing and improvising, how do you know where you're at in the tune?" His response always stuck with me and helped me a lot in the same way ... he replied that no matter what he or others are actually playing, the melody line of the tune is always playing in his head. That way, he's never lost. That made a ton of sense to me, and I've done that ever since. It even works with esoteric jazz, where the lead can be all over the map. Once you get the melody line in your head, you can actually anticipate what's coming next. It helps.

Enjoy.

banjoboyd - Posted - 10/03/2025:  07:08:44

We can only assume what the cause of the mismatch was. Was he playing in the same key? Was he playing at a reasonable and stable tempo? Was he playing in an overly elaborate way, making it hard to follow the tune? Or it could be that he was doing everything correctly but just playing a substantially different version of the tune. This is why it's important to communicate when playing with others instead of hoping that the music magically comes together and then getting frustrated when it doesn't. 

I get the sense, John, that heterophony (multiple variations/elaborations of the same melody happening simultaneously) is not a good fit for you. But that's really the bread and butter of instrumental OT music. Whatever version of Cluck Old Hen you learned on banjo is just a way to play the tune on an instrument. But it's not the tune. Have you listened to recordings of Cluck Old Hen (real performance/field recordings, not instructional material)? If you listen and you can't pick out the tune, then there's no way you'll be able to play it with others (minus totally tuning out everything else, playing whatever part you know, and hoping for the best).

ALCO - Posted - 10/03/2025:  08:24:56

John, have you tried playing along with a recording of yourself? Try it and see if your amusia prevents you from matching what you hear.

jsinjin - Posted - 10/03/2025:  08:41:08

Thanks all. We are both technically newbies at least in our respective instruments. However, this friend is a 4 decade audio engineer (he says his role is usually termed an A1) working for showco on tours ranging from genesis invisible touch to philharmonic orchestras to small medium and large bands and for the last decade as lead audio engineer for a NFL team stadium for both games and events. He also travels extensively with different performance groups on special events like Fourth of July or even the past couple of inaugurations. While he has only played mandolin for a short time his experience in drums, guitar, piano, bass (upright and electric) and other instruments is much deeper than mine. He has an audio room in his home with walls of guitars and other stringed instruments, accoustic panels and a collection of vintage tube amplifiers. He also has a moog synthesizer, a theremin and this giant thjng with rotating speakers called a Hammond organ he restored. He picked up a cheap mandolin a few months ago and as he is part of my 5 am workout group that I host at the shed we built on the back side of the property, he wanted to play. I suggested cluck old hen because I have it well memorized and I also suggested Angeline the baker but his teacher’s collection of song work through lessons did not include that song but did include cluck old hen. He learned it quickly. We were trying to play with strum machine setting the tempo and set in A tuning with an old time band and I took out the mandolin from the accompaniment. I nearly always play with strum machine setting my rhythm with a metronome and often have it run with an increase of tempo of 1-2 beats per minute every couple of play throughs for a song. I strive for perfection with both my timing and playing from memory.

He wanted to play together so after I pulled some shots of espresso we tried to play. He could definitely play with or without the metronome and improvise and play it in different ways. I don’t think he was frustrated at all or showing off. I think he just gets music after decades being around it.

This playing did not go well but I honestly don’t think it was his fault. I feel like I’m trying to remember what note comes next and screw it up when the playing is going on in my ear while I’m trying to remember. It’s sort of like when I’m trying to code or do math and there is music or noise going on. I can’t concentrate on the next steps.

Dan Gellert - Posted - 10/03/2025:  11:04:24

Of course it's frustrating. You've been working hard at studying a foreign language by memorizing vocabulary and phrases, and maybe you know every page in that first book backwards and forwards. Maybe even had a few good lessons with a native speaker. One day, you decide you're ready to take a first step into using some of what you've learned for some actual communication... something basic like ordering at a local ethnic eatery. If that doesn't make you feel like a fool, and to wonder if you've missed the point of all that study, you're not paying attention. You've opened the door to a whole dimension of learning that you didn't even know was there, and yes, it does kind of mean you're starting back at the beginning. You have to do that now and then if you're pursuing any sort of high-level skill.

I've been playing music for most of my 76 years, and still regularly find myself re-thinking how I understand what I thought were the most basic concepts and definitions...

Sunrise Lee - Posted - 10/03/2025:  14:13:57

Jsinjin, it is great that you are using a tool like Strum Machine to aid in your practice. When it is just you and you are using Strum Machine, if you mess up do you start the song over? If so, instead of stopping and starting over continue to try and find you your place in the music and continue through the piece. Even the best musicians make mistakes, they just have really good recovery. This will help with the jamming.

jsinjin - Posted - 10/03/2025:  19:08:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan Gellert

Of course it's frustrating. You've been working hard at studying a foreign language by memorizing vocabulary and phrases, and maybe you know every page in that first book backwards and forwards. Maybe even had a few good lessons with a native speaker.

languages are so much easier than this!!

maryzcox - Posted - 10/04/2025:  12:34:43

I remember my first bluegrass jam session after I had been taking weekly lessons for a couple years.  first of all my teacher had to ask the regular players if I could come and if I would be allowed to play One tune with them and they were notified in advance what that tune would be. then my teacher went over the tune with me for a few weeks--teaching me how to lead and how to chunk on the backup--for that tune only.  I was told except for that one tune--I was to listen, listen, listen --but no playing.   If I heard a tune at the jam that I really loved--I could tell him at my next lesson and we would begin on that tune and when it was up to speed and I was steady--then I could go to the jam and I'd get a break on that tune too.

You really have to know a tune to play well with others.  :)  try singing Cluck Old Hen first--then have your friend sing with you--then play along together with your banjo and mando- after you are solid--take turns taking a break between singing verses--and always always--tune both instruments before starting and tune again after playing awhile or if someone sounds off. Its super hard to play with others if everyone is not in tune together.  good luck--smile and have fun and always listen. 

My Old Hen is a good old hen

She lays eggs for the railroad men

sometimes one--sometimes two

sometimes enough for the whole dang crew :)

www. maryzcox.com

VIDEO: Cluck Old Hen
(click to view)

 

BG Banjo - Posted - 10/04/2025:  14:15:30

Unless I missed it John, is this the first time you have played with someone else? When I first got invited to participate in a Bluegrass jam it was with guitar, before I took up banjo. The one thing I think is that there were three or four guitar players, one banjo player, a mandolin player, a couple of fiddlers, and a guy who was switching between guitar and harmonica. Over time, I learned that it is a combination of watching, listening, and acquiring the experience to have a pretty good feel for what is coming next. And when I decided to play banjo, some of it I had to learn again. But it all comes over time.

In a larger group like that, you can hide. You can get lost, wait for an opening, and come back in. One on one, especially when one is playing a different instrument is hard. There is no place to hide. You are relying only on the sense of hearing and if that sense is not developed, you are handicapped. But everyone has to walk that road if they want to get there. Just know that you just have to find your way.

banjoboyd - Posted - 10/04/2025:  17:57:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsinjin

languages are so much easier than this!!

---

It's really not, but you have to actually approach it like learning a language. The way not to learn a language is to memorize a bunch of phrases and then hope they make sense when recited in the middle of a conversation. Your pronunciation of those phrases may be practiced to perfection, but that is irrelevant if the choice and timing of phrase is contextually incorrect. 

jsinjin - Posted - 10/06/2025:  08:32:13

I’ve just found that every language I’ve learned through the years just sort of flowed. I read the books, practice, memorize the syntax, read books in the language and keep notes, listen to radio and say what the people say and I just pick it up. At least the romantic languages. They just make sense to me. And I pick them up fast. I can memorize tons and tons of material and it just comes out. It’s like math or coding or writing. Those things just fit. The moment you learn a new trick in differentiation you can apply it all across the various use casses. Same thing with coding. You don’t have to see it or try it, you just know it will work. In the music if you screw up and get off it’s over. The song flows right past with only a random guess from me on what comes next. I feel like I’m missing something key that everyone just knows but can’t share except to say just practice it and it will occcur so I flail.

Chatting because my buddy came by again today. I learned good king wencelas this year and last year in practice for Christmas songs which is a specific goal of mine to be able to play while camping in the winter with the airstream and fire. I can play good king Wencelas. I have the bigger competently and totally memorized and can hit it at fast speeds for me with the metronome note for note. But was an unmitigated disaster playing even starting to play with a friend this morning. He as usual picked it up in seconds after just hearing it and got the double c tuning references to the song that my instructor used for the banjo tuning. I feel like I’m trying to learn to swim with no understanding at all of what water is, what floating is and why one can’t breathe under water. I’m just randomly hoping I pick up what he and I are playing but I’m listening to a combination of metronome, the mandolin and trying like mad to remember what note comes next in the series and resorting to just guessing. I confess I still have no concept of chord changes except the paper version of the letters or 1 4 5. I can’t hear them or tell they are occurring so I’m working from note number one though X to go through the song by memory. It’s just still not fun and mega frustrating like getting a daily shot for no reason.

Nopix - Posted - 10/06/2025:  09:25:48

I think there's a misnomer them that play don't make mistakes.
35k hours on a fiddle, Yes. Yes indeed mistakes/clams will be there. You can't explore without misteps.
One, they don't bother me. I've learned to roll over them and keep on rolling. Clams thrive on attention. Understand?
Two, there's memorizing music, and then there's internalizing music. If you can't jump back into the tune anywhere, it needs more work.
But take heart. Simplify until it clicks. Play two chord tunes until it clicks.
But it'll never click if you quit. SJ

ALCO - Posted - 10/06/2025:  10:30:01

John,

Stop torturing yourself with what you recognise as an insurmountable barrier.

Based on everything you have said about your approach to the various activities you enjoy, I really believe that, as soon as you apply yourself to following the lessons in the previously recommended tutor books, you will see that, because each exercise requires considerable repetition and precision, before moving on to the next one, you can concentrate on analysing your technique and sound production, without any pressure to do anything other than memorise the notation, where to find the notes on the fingerboard and how to apply rhythmic timing to them. This is very much a solo pursuit and as such, you work at your own comfortable pace, steadily building the foundations of competency, one lesson at a time.

Edited by - ALCO on 10/06/2025 10:30:33

Owen - Posted - 10/06/2025:  11:19:50

Fwiw, I find the idea of an insurmountable barrier kinda intriguing.   

Almost to the same extent that a person "knows" what is/isn't an insurmountable barrier for another person.

[ ... still thinking out loud about how appropriate extrapolation might, or might not, be.  This too shall pass.  ]

banjoboyd - Posted - 10/06/2025:  11:36:24

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsinjin

I’ve just found that every language I’ve learned through the years just sort of flowed. I read the books, practice, memorize the syntax, read books in the language and keep notes, listen to radio and say what the people say and I just pick it up. 

---

That's more or less what we've been trying to tell you, but concerning music. You have you listen to music and what the musicians involved are actually doing. Then imitate it, transcribe it, play around with it, make it your own. All the other stuff -- memorizing tunes, doing technical exercises, studying theory -- is support for the main event. 



That being said, "just go listen to a lot music" is probably not  helpful advice for someone with amusia. But I'm honestly not sure what the alternative is. 

banjoak - Posted - 10/07/2025:  18:15:05

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsinjin

I feel like I’m missing something key that everyone just knows but can’t share except to say just practice it and it will occcur so I flail.

---

"just practice and it will occur"... of course a bit misleading, as it doesn't just occur, for some folks. Yes, perhaps are missing something key. Perhaps involving defining what is the "it"?

Frustration and struggle can be a lot of different mismatch of expectations, based on assumptions or poor comparisons; (including analogies and metaphors). 

One difference notice is quantitative vs qualitative; in view, approach, goals, end outcome and reward.

What some folks describe is simply quantitative. With literal objective, numeric, measurements, counting, formulas, algorithms, math, calculations. Task is viewed of following numeric instructions, sequential note by note, timing, precision, counting mistakes; and/or perhaps things like hearing and rote memorization. The reward is scorecard/grade, how well completed and executed task, as per the objective and quantifiable metrics, technical task of numeric instruction, right note, sequence of notes, right timing and precision; and maybe includes score on how fast based on numeric bpm. This quantitative view of music applies not only to practice, playing alone; but extends to idea of playing with others, goal, what it's about; as well as to aspects like how "by ear" is defined or about; to music theory.

Just to point out that differs from others, like friend; it's not really end goal; rather are describing and using much more qualitative, sensory listening experience, in views and goals. (often describe with figurative, how it feels; and use subjective sense of good).

Edited by - banjoak on 10/07/2025 18:17:26

Nopix - Posted - 10/08/2025:  05:47:37

Last suggestion:

Find a list of 2 chord songs. Songs not instrumentals. The lyrics act as cues or markers to where to change chords. The list should indicate if the song is a 1-4, or ,1-5 song. Practice changing chords in time to the music.

Choose from the list a song you already know. This solves that particular learning obstacle. One starts off mechanically strumming and changing chords, using the lyric as a cue. With familiarity and anticipating the chord change, eventually Music should emerge rather than a mechanical drill.

All that I've read, and I have read this and other threads, my opinion is to backup and simplify. 

Edited by - Nopix on 10/08/2025 05:55:47

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 10/09/2025:  14:02:24

Many different versions... and this applies to all tunes:

With OT 3-finger Cluck Old Hen

A gorgeous version by Tom Collins:  Cluck Old Hen | Fretless Clawhammer Banjo | Tom Collins

Fairly standard but with a twist in the fine part:  "Cluck Old Hen" by Bertie Mae Dickens

From "Uncle Wade":  Conversation with Granny Porter / Cluck Old Hen

I get a lot of enjoyment from hearing tunes played differently.

reubenstump - Posted - 10/09/2025:  14:29:39

I've loved that Tom Collins version since i first heard it.  Also this version

m.youtube.com/watch?v=oTtrKDwFXo8

pinenut - Posted - 10/09/2025:  14:55:49

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjoak

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsinjin

I feel like I’m missing something key that everyone just knows but can’t share except to say just practice it and it will occur so I flail.

---

 

"just practice and it will occur"... of course a bit misleading, as it doesn't just occur, for some folks. Yes, perhaps are missing something key. Perhaps involving defining what is the "it"?

Frustration and struggle can be a lot of different mismatch of expectations, based on assumptions or poor comparisons; (including analogies and metaphors). 

---

It is the lynch pin for hard skills and why it is critical to learn, at least the initial kernel, at a young age.  Frustration is an understatement; it eats the core.

It's something he wants, doesn't know he needs and won't know he has if he gets it.     ~Jay Williams~

Edited by - pinenut on 10/09/2025 14:59:47

Owen - Posted - 10/09/2025:  15:13:22

I dunno .... It might eat at me  if  I had a bit more of it* .... but I don't.    C'est la vie?

... or as my wife has observed about a few things here and there: "I guess It wasn't meant to be."  

* i.e. the initial kernel that is already there by the time young age comes around [IMNSHumbleO, though I'm pretty sure banjoak sees it differently ]. 

Thanks, for "initial kernel" Kam ... I like it ...  I'd mostly been using "musical spark."

Edited by - Owen on 10/09/2025 15:16:01

Bunyip - Posted - 10/17/2025:  03:59:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nopix

Well if you're still reading, how come he couldn't play along to you?

I try like h@ll to play along with a newbie. I consider it my job to jibe with the person struggling. Even in a jam. I'm not gonna show out. I'm gonna try like h@ll to make music. That means trying to mix. What good did it do to blow your doors off? I do know the type. It kinda upsets me he couldn't slow down.

---

Bunyip - Posted - 10/17/2025:  04:37:12

John, this is your first instrument?
If so, early days. Anyone learning an instrument goes through your experience, and everyone that commented is on the other side, or at least comfortable with where they’re at. If that assumption is correct, then it’s a shame your buddy couldn’t recognise, and adapt to where you were at. Sometimes it just doesn’t work.
May I ask a question?
When you’re practicing, do play looking at the sheet or from memory?
You describe an unpleasant experience, but I’m really curious in how you practice.
Your practice is your preparation so, can you describe your process please?

martynel - Posted - 10/17/2025:  05:07:39

John, get strum machine and practice along with that. strummachine.com/app It'll help you get used to playing with others and improve your timing. When you first start jamming with others, it can be a bit intimidating. The others might play faster, or louder than you making it hard to think of what to do next. Also, when you play by yourself, you tend to play a tune over a few times before you get it right, and you may slow down on the harder parts, or even stop to go over it. You can't do any of that in a jam. It's just jump in and blaze through the song with no forgiveness. Strum machine would be a big help. I've been playing for a long time, and I use it frequently to make sure what I'm doing will be in time when playing with others.

writerrad - Posted - 10/17/2025:  06:18:26

I attempted the mandolin when I was about 28 or 29 way back in the 1970s.   I had been playing guitar since I was 14.  I could pick out tunes on it from the day I took it home. 

The problem I really had was that I bought a cheap mando and it was a pain to keep tuned.  My girl friend of the time who had not played a string instrument since she was 15 and was about 27 did even better.  Someone who plays the bass will be even more familiar with the music of a mando than just a guitar player.

Music comes to people different ways and comparing oneself to anyone else is useless.    You have to figure out how to make you enjoy music.  I have been trying to play music since around 1962 or 3.     I realize that people who practiced more than me got places earlier.  I had a very close friend when I was about 18 or 19 who I played old time music with one summer  who became a recorded mando and guitar player, was in Bromberg's band and appeared on records before a too young death. 

That guy who was one of the nicest most cheerful people  I ever knew,  but he dedicated himself to practicing, taking lessons, studying the instrument even when he was in high school.  When we hung out and partied, he'd be practicing.  He saved his money to take lessons with Bradbury himself who lived in Manchester CT as my friend did.   The late Eli Kaufmanwho headed the American Banjo Fraternity for decades told me in all his years in music he neveer met anyone who practices as much as my friend.  You wouldnt know isofar as he ws a cheerful, smiling, happy seeming guy and a friend to all.  Just thinking about him now makes me happy.

You should rejoice in that your friend can play well nd ask him or her for tips.  You should rejoice that you play the banjo which is a gift in itself even if you are a lousy banger like me.

I rejoice when I hear him on records and videos.  I dont feel jealous

I am 78.  If I hear folks who play better than me I think of the time and effort and struggle they put in.  However, it is not a race, a comparison.  I rejoice in how well they can play.  I also respect the other things I have done in my life too.

If I were you, if you have a sufficient level of friendship,  I would congratulate the guy for playing so well.  I would thank him for the example.  I would ask him what he thinks help that.  I would try to learn.

lesnyd - Posted - 10/17/2025:  06:44:28

I learned in the late 60s when I was a teenager. No internet, no teachers around. I played banjo tunes on 45 rpm records at 16 rpm to figure out the notes, and finally Scruggs' book came out and I picked up a lot from the tab. In a few months I thought I was pretty good. But the first time I played with accompaniment behind me I got messed up. Playing alone you hear things a particular way, and when you have someone else driving the beat and chords what your used to sounds different. The cure is to keep playing with other folks until you are comfortable hearing the chords and adapting your timing to match. Once you get comfortable doing that you can jam with anyone. I'd start with something really straightforward and simple, like Cripple Creek, something like that. By the way, I have played with guitar players who were noodlers and got lost because I couldn't hear the song any more, just a bunch of riffs!

jaypol - Posted - 10/17/2025:  06:54:51

quote:Originally posted by jsinjinMan, I had a friend come over this morning who is part of my workout crew. He just picked up mandolin and for all disclosure he does have 30 plus years of music from drums to guitar and bass as an audio engineer. But he has had his mandolin for a couple of weeks. We tried to play together the song cluck old hen which I can play in my sleep and it was horrifying. He picked it up in seconds and I was collletely lost. I couldn’t get through a single measure. I had no idea what was coming next, the mandolin was loud and overshadowed what I was trying to think of next. It was like there was no context, no way to even guess what note I was on, no way to figure out what part of the song I was in. I finally just put it away. This is just not for me at all. I was almost nauseous trying to keep my head in what I was doing. I don’t think anything I could do or practice could ever overcome the significant confusion, lack of context and total gap between what note and finger I’m trying to play vs what he was doing so naturally.

jaypol - Posted - 10/17/2025:  07:00:44

I know how you feel. I can practice and practice and still struggle to sound good, at least to me. My husband, who has played guitar and bass for about 60 years, can just start noodling sway on the banjo and it sounds great. He doesn't play songs or really know how to play, but is just a naturally gifted musician. Maybe you were discouraged and intimidated by your frien's ease in playing. It's frustrating to see that kind of natural talent and still keep on trying.

writerrad - Posted - 10/17/2025:  07:11:02

in  79 and early 80  I took jazz guitar lessons.  I got more out of generalizations about music my teacher gave me than anything because I did not really know or want to play jazz guitar.  I thought it would just be a quicker way to learn how  to play blues or old time better.  However, I got a lot of what my teacher told me about learning music and playing and life.  I forget his name, but he was a well known local player at expensive restaurants with a trio, sometimes accompanying his wife who was a singer, and he did a lot of session work for commercials, educational TV.  A few times while I knew jim heaccompanied nationally and internationally known jazz and pop singers when they toured the Bay Area.

He always said that when he performed especially when he was soloing , the audience would think he was inspired by heaven, but the real thing is that he had been working at the guitar since he was 5 years old.  He had this slogan, "it is not the inspiration, but the perspiration."  He said he had spent hours and hours practicing since he was a kid. encouraged by parents who were working musicians.  He said he worked at such that at home if he was watchig TV by himself he might have a guitar in his hand and practice during commercials, and would keep a pick in his hand if he was watchng TV with his wife.

Most things a person gets good at, it come from getting to it when they are quite young, and also TAKING LESSONS and  having teachers and mentors . 

Other things you get good at when you can devote time to it.